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03-05-2010, 12:31 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
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More than two channels?
Any thoughts on why Tivo didn't elect to record more than two channels? Cable card supports six channels. HD capable disks support 10 separate HD streams.
Too cheap to buy powerful chip set?
Want to sell more boxes with revenue stream?
Other?
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03-05-2010, 12:36 PM
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#2
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On air all the time
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wantage, NJ
Posts: 34,775
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My guess is cost. When the S3 was first released, cost was the #1 complaint.
__________________
I don't currently have any running TiVos.
After almost 10 years it was just time to move on.
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03-05-2010, 01:03 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Drexel Hill, PA
Posts: 2,265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
Want to sell more boxes with revenue stream
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I am guessing this one. TiVo doesn't make money on selling hardware. They make their money on selling subscriptions. Having a TiVo with 6 tuners does not make them any more money than having a TiVo with 2 tuners.
__________________
For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: "It might have been!"
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03-05-2010, 01:04 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 38
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I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.
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03-05-2010, 01:57 PM
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#5
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tivo - please wait..
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasers
I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.
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Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.
__________________
"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation, that He exists." ~ Blaise Pascal- on God
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03-05-2010, 02:43 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome
Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.
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True, no great new capability, just some improvements. If they were truely interested in Energy Star they would support 3 or 4 tuners with increased support fees, but then many would cry foul.
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03-05-2010, 02:52 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsABeach
I am guessing this one. TiVo doesn't make money on selling hardware. They make their money on selling subscriptions. Having a TiVo with 6 tuners does not make them any more money than having a TiVo with 2 tuners.
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The problem only with this is it also appears they have done away with the easy way to control more than one TiVo in a room. This of course was with the DVR switch on the remote. There may still be a way that isn't obvious but until someone tests it we have no way of knowing.
It doesn't gain them any money either if people like myself who want 6 tuners per TiVo instead of buying an additional TiVo invest in other options. If I hadn't presold my HDs, I wouldn't have upgraded since for me I sold them for what I am paying for the XLs. Meanwhile I am counting down to the release of the Ceton 4 tuner card rather than for the shipment of my premieres.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
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#8
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tivo - please wait..
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
True, no great new capability, just some improvements. If they were truely interested in Energy Star they would support 3 or 4 tuners with increased support fees, but then many would cry foul.
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Why would there be increassed support fees. Tuners are modules, not single cards ?
__________________
"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation, that He exists." ~ Blaise Pascal- on God
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03-05-2010, 03:30 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 220
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Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...
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03-05-2010, 03:34 PM
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#10
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tivo - please wait..
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnwashere
Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...
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I have heard its either 6-7 streams. (per card). Really 4 tuners should be the norm now. There is no technical reason why not.
__________________
"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation, that He exists." ~ Blaise Pascal- on God
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03-05-2010, 03:35 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnwashere
Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...
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Per the CableCard Wikipedia page, it supports up to 6. For example, the Ceton tuners will take one M Card with 4 tuners.
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03-05-2010, 03:40 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keen
Per the CableCard Wikipedia page, it supports up to 6. For example, the Ceton tuners will take one M Card with 4 tuners.
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Actually Ceton is making a 6 tuner card also. It is just Microsoft who limits the home user to 4 so they are making the 4 tuner card first.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-05-2010, 04:28 PM
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#13
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HD Addict
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 10,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak
The problem only with this is it also appears they have done away with the easy way to control more than one TiVo in a room. This of course was with the DVR switch on the remote. There may still be a way that isn't obvious but until someone tests it we have no way of knowing.
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I currently have four TiVos in one room and have no difficulty controlling them. Each one has a different remote code. So I just select the TiVo wit my Harmony remote and then it controls that specific TiVo.
I would hope the Premiere is the same way, otherwise I am going to have problems since I will have two Premiere XL units in that room.
__________________
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03-05-2010, 04:31 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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I only have two in the same room, but I definitely hope there is still a way to do it. It bothers me that they removed the option on the new remotes though even if it is possible to do a shortcut people used on the Series 1.
I always stick with the TiVo remote since I only have a few devices at my main TV.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-06-2010, 09:47 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome
Why would there be increassed support fees. Tuners are modules, not single cards ?
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True, so the other question is how much extra would you pay for 4 or 6 tuners? Tivo lives on its revenue stream, not box sales. More than 2 tuners eats away at their income. The increased fees would make up for the loss of extra revenue streams
Last edited by vstone : 03-06-2010 at 11:08 AM.
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03-06-2010, 10:03 AM
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#16
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tivo - please wait..
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
True, so the other question is how much extra would you pay for 4 or 6 tuners?
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Not much more then Moxi 
__________________
"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation, that He exists." ~ Blaise Pascal- on God
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03-06-2010, 10:15 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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The most I would pay is around $699 for a 4 tuner TiVo with at least a 1TB preferably 1.5-2TB drive. I think I would pay up to $999 for a 6 tuner TiVo, but it would definitely need 1.5TB preferably 2TB or it could even be dual drives with two 1TB drives. I would even be open to a 6 Tuner TiVo having a lifetime price of $500 for MSD and $599 with new lifetime.
I figure at 2 Premieres you are paying $600 which gets you 4 tuners and 640gb of recording space. Now you are also doing two cases, two motherboards, two PSUs, and two drives which cost TiVo obviously more than 1 of each. I would even guess if they needed to make it more powerful it would be equal to the price of double each component.
I figure at 3 Premieres you are paying $900 which gets you 6 tuners and 960GB of recording space, but also triple of everything not to mention the cost of 3 320gb drives versus 1TB. Looking at OEM prices, a 320gb drive is 47.99 for the WD AV model and for the 1TB it is 89.99 for the WD AV model. Obviously TiVo pays less than this but 1 drive versus three definitely saves them money.
They could keep it at only dual buffers and the 4 tuner I think should support up to two rooms for streaming which based off Moxi should be possible with a higher chip. If they wanted to keep it at 1 transfer I would be ok with it though 2 would be nicer. I think for the 6 tuner it would need up to 3 rooms streaming possibly 4 and at least 2 transfers at the same time. Now I don't know if there is a chip out there yet that would really make the 6 tuner a reality.
To Compare Moxi prices, you are looking at $599 for a 3 tuner with 500gb.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-06-2010, 05:55 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasers
I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.
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I agree with you on this! Plus I am not seeing that much of an improvement on the S4 to make me want to upgrade. I get it that Tivo doesn't make much money from the hardware but until they make a giant leap forward in this area, my money is staying in my wallet.
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03-06-2010, 06:25 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 435
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why do you all have more than one Tivo in a room?
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03-06-2010, 07:14 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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Because I only have 2 TVs active in this house, and 2+2 tuners isn't enough so it is easier to have two TiVos in the same room.
Back when I was on Directv I had 5 active DirecTivos running over 3 rooms. Of course it was only $5 extra a month and I bought most of them used for cheap.
I think if I had 12 tuners total with one centralized season pass list I would be happy.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-06-2010, 07:40 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 435
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I am confused still, you have 2 tivos on one tv? so that way you have 4 tuners?
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TiVo Premiere XL ~ Lifetime (OTA)
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03-06-2010, 07:45 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 76
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I have three Series 2 on a single tv (3 tuners total).
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03-06-2010, 09:02 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Mike
I am confused still, you have 2 tivos on one tv? so that way you have 4 tuners?
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Yeah in my bedroom I have 1 TiVo HD with a 1TB drive I upgraded on input 1 and 1 TiVo HD with the stock drive on input 2. This way I have 4 tuners on one tv so one Tivo for example might be set for Fox and NBC while the other is for CBS and ABC. The third Tivo in the other room records the CW when needed and also whatever I will watch most out there. Some shows may be duplicated but I just found the transfers too slow.
They still have separate season pass lists so it can be a pain to manage. I just use the one remote though since it has the DVR switch on it and they are set to different addresses.
__________________
1 - TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB
2 - TiVo Premiere XL
1 - TiVo Elite
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03-06-2010, 10:55 PM
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#24
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On air all the time
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wantage, NJ
Posts: 34,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome
Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.
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Why 3 tuners? I want at least 4, if not 6. 6 is what M cards support. Anything less is a waste of an M card.
__________________
I don't currently have any running TiVos.
After almost 10 years it was just time to move on.
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03-06-2010, 10:58 PM
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#25
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Cracker Soul
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Living in a four letter world.
Posts: 2,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome
Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Tuners are just peripherals.
__________________
Not entirely square
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03-07-2010, 01:50 PM
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#26
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tivo - please wait..
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc
You have no idea what you're talking about. Tuners are just peripherals.
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Lists of things you cant do with a Tivo s4
1. Picture in picture.
2. Extenders ie Moxi , media center
3. Transfer at high speed over a lan
4. Record more then 2 shows.
The new tivo is useless. Waiting on Ceton, and low form case.
__________________
"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation, that He exists." ~ Blaise Pascal- on God
Last edited by Videodrome : 03-07-2010 at 02:00 PM.
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03-07-2010, 04:37 PM
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#27
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HD Addict
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 10,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Mike
why do you all have more than one Tivo in a room?
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I have four TiVos in one room.
Although when I get my Premiere boxes I will only put two in that room and rely on the other TiVos on the numerous days that I'm recording more than four things concurrently.
Three tuners would be nowhere near enough. So whether the TiVo had two or three tuners I would still plan on putting two Premieres in that room.
__________________
Premiere ELITE x2 -- Premiere (320GB)
TiVo Mini x2
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03-07-2010, 05:41 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 440
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That's a great point aaronwt, for some, no number of tuners is enough. This is why TiVo should let you leverage multiple units as one. While your solution works for you, many would bulk at the idea of managing recordings on that many DVRs, not to mention trying to remember where the shows are you want to watch.
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How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
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03-07-2010, 11:36 PM
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#29
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HD Addict
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 10,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
That's a great point aaronwt, for some, no number of tuners is enough. This is why TiVo should let you leverage multiple units as one. While your solution works for you, many would bulk at the idea of managing recordings on that many DVRs, not to mention trying to remember where the shows are you want to watch.
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I can always check the Now Playing List of any TiVo on my account from any of my other TiVos and initiate a transfer if I need to. The current TiVos have no problem transferring HD much faster than realtime so hopefully transferring between Premiere boxes speeds it up even more.
__________________
Premiere ELITE x2 -- Premiere (320GB)
TiVo Mini x2
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56TB MSS WHS--32TB unRAID--29TB unRAID
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03-08-2010, 06:58 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 346
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Wow! Those of you with 2 or more TiVos in a room, how the hell do you find the time to watch everything you record!?! I have a single TiVoHD and a Comcast DVR in my living room. If I hit a schedule overlap on the TiVo, I use the Comcast DVR. Having a Comcast DVR also gives me access to VOD. Between then, they fill up with recordings faster than I can watch them and I already spend too much time sitting in front of a TV! 
Personally, I'm going to upgrade my TiVoHD for a PremierXL. Two tuners on the TiVo is fine for me. I don't want to pay extra for more. I'm more interested in the improved platform, better software and the potential for new and interesting applications in the future.
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