TiVo wins echostar appeal case

CrispyCritter · 03-04-2010, 10:42 AM

nrc · 03-04-2010, 11:12 AM

Excellent. I'm sure they'll appeal and the Supreme Court will decline to hear the case. The court needs to bring the hammer down on Echostar and end this.

kevinbuckeye · 03-04-2010, 11:17 AM

stock up 50%

Wil · 03-04-2010, 11:33 AM

Lots of talk about the $300 million. No mention of the almost $1 billion #.

Hew · 03-04-2010, 11:48 AM

Congrats Tivo!!! The case is finally closed.

300 million in addition to the 100 million they already received. Plus additional charges from the contempt period.

Thats 400 million + in cash just sitting in their pockets. What will they do with it?

I say they invest 25% in R&D over the next few years, and another 25% on marketing to push their Tivo Premier DVR.

Maybe they could make an acquisition or two. Blockbuster seems like a good fit.

Or how about bring monthly fees down to 5 bucks a month, in order to increase subscriptions and add big revenues in their advertising business.

TIVO DEATHWATCH NO MORE.

Sucks that I didn't have any stock.

kevinwill1 · 03-04-2010, 11:53 AM

Something tells me the stubborn folks running Echostar are going to try to push this all the way to the Supreme Court, as well. You have to wonder, do these folks not know when to quit and/or like wasting their money?

ewilts · 03-04-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbuckeye

stock up 50%

That's due to the Premiere announcement :-)

CrispyCritter · 03-04-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hew

Congrats Tivo!!! The case is finally closed.

Naaah, Echostar has already announced they are appealing to the full appeals court.

It's a major step forward, but there are still issues (and the dissenting opinion (it was 2-1) was strongly in Echostar's favor).

jakerome · 03-04-2010, 12:03 PM

I've held stock for WAY long, and have had a huge chunk of my portfolio in TiVo since summer 2008. So this is a good day.

As important as the $300 million is, that's just a small piece. DISH still will owe more for sanctions since July 2009 for contempt. And they have to shut off their DVRs. And there's still the matter of damages since they instituted the workaround. DISH will ask for en banc review (the whole federal circuit will decide instead of 3 judges). If that isn't granted, then DISH must settle or shut off 8 million + DVRs.

If en banc is granted... more waiting.

I might just buy that TiVo Premiere after all. I got a few extra bucks now!

jakerome · 03-04-2010, 12:05 PM

16 judges on the court, DISH would need 9 to rule in their favor. That means they need 8 of the remaining 13 judges to rule for them. Odds are definitely stacked in TiVo's favor, even if the review is granted.

curtis0620 · 03-04-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

Naaah, Echostar has already announced they are appealing to the full appeals court.

It's a major step forward, but there are still issues (and the dissenting opinion (it was 2-1) was strongly in Echostar's favor).

They better hope this same court grants a stay.

morac · 03-04-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hew

I say they invest 25% in R&D over the next few years, and another 25% on marketing to push their Tivo Premier DVR.

They'll probably have to put it into their lawsuit against Verizon and AT&T as well as defense against the lawsuit from Microsoft (in case anyone forgot about that).

BlackBetty · 03-04-2010, 04:16 PM

Congrats to TiVo and to my brokerage account

TolloNodre · 03-04-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

It's a major step forward, but there are still issues (and the dissenting opinion (it was 2-1) was strongly in Echostar's favor).

You expected the dissenting opinion to be in TiVo's favor as well...?

jfh3 · 03-04-2010, 05:44 PM

First, the stay remains in effect until the CAFC decision is mandated, which isn't until after they hear the case en banc or deny the request.

Second, no chance Tivo sees any of the $300M+ until this case is finally over. Don't go spending it yet ...

Pretty big gamble for E* though if they do request an en banc hearing and get denied - they risk having to disable ALL of their DVRs. I can't imagine Charlie is willing to bet the company like that, but I also expected a settlement long ago.

nrc · 03-04-2010, 06:16 PM

It's about 100-1 that the court will even hear the case en banc and about 1000-1 that it will get over-turned.

Dish's next play will probably be another work around and hoping that they can get the court to continue the stay pending some kind of ruling on that - exactly the endless treadmill that TiVo has warned about.

If there's any Justice the court will draw the line and enforce the injunction until there's either a settlement or a ruling that a work-around doesn't infringe.

MichaelK · 03-04-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

First, the stay remains in effect until the CAFC decision is mandated, which isn't until after they hear the case en banc or deny the request.

Second, no chance Tivo sees any of the $300M+ until this case is finally over. Don't go spending it yet ...

Pretty big gamble for E* though if they do request an en banc hearing and get denied - they risk having to disable ALL of their DVRs. I can't imagine Charlie is willing to bet the company like that, but I also expected a settlement long ago.

charlie is a lunatic poker player who never seems to fold. He had a plan B with the distant networks by having a thrid party offer service after the supreme court refused to unban him from doing so. But I can't see what his scummy plan B will be here when he tries to get the supreme court to give him a stay to hear the case. So I think he just might need to fold.

For the lawyers- what happens if the full appeals court rules he has to disable the boxes- specifically is the issue between him and the court at that point? Or can he settle with Tivo 10 minutes later and then leave his boxes on?

Wil · 03-04-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Or can he settle with Tivo 10 minutes later and then leave his boxes on?

This. Except it's 10 seconds before the off switch is thrown.

Worst case, last resort, no other way out, he still thinks he's tougher than Tivo, holding a pair of dueces to Tivo's three of a kind showing. He'll be hurt, very, very badly, but he'll come out all right. He believes this.

samo · 03-04-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

This. Except it's 10 seconds before the off switch is thrown.

Worst case, last resort, no other way out, he still thinks he's tougher than Tivo, holding a pair of dueces to Tivo's three of a kind showing. He'll be hurt, very, very badly, but he'll come out all right. He believes this.

What would be intersting if behind the close doors Tivo made some kind of verbal deal with DirecTV not to license software to Dish and will force Dish to shot down DVRs no matter what Charlie will offer for the license.

stevel · 03-04-2010, 08:07 PM

DirecTV license software to DISH? Are you kidding? Besides, that wouldn't help DISH. DirecTV has immunity from a TiVo lawsuit due to their agreement - it would not transfer to DISH.

Wil · 03-04-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevel

DirecTV license software to DISH? Are you kidding? Besides, that wouldn't help DISH. DirecTV has immunity from a TiVo lawsuit due to their agreement - it would not transfer to DISH.

You're misunderstanding his point, that DirecTV might have some advantage/leverage that has enabled them to persuade/force Tivo into an agreement that Tivo will not license to DISH.

I'm not agreeing with that possibility, or disagreeing. Just clarifying

samo · 03-04-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

You're misunderstanding his point, that DirecTV might have some advantage/leverage that has enabled them to persuade/force Tivo into an agreement that Tivo will not license to DISH.

I'm not agreeing with that possibility, or disagreeing. Just clarifying

Sorry, my post wasn't clear enough. Your interpretation is what I wanted to say. Sort of "we pay you more, but you refuse to license to Dish". Just a wild speculation.

Phantom Gremlin · 03-04-2010, 08:50 PM

I know this isn't a stock forum, and you probably know this already, but maybe this will help some other people here who might be tempted to speculate in the market based on this decision ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakerome

I've held stock for WAY long, and have had a huge chunk of my portfolio in TiVo since summer 2008. So this is a good day.

Remember Cramer's first motto: "Bulls make money, bears make money, hogs get slaughtered".

And his second motto: "Diversification is the only free lunch".

Quote:

I might just buy that TiVo Premiere after all. I got a few extra bucks now!

You don't have any extra bucks unless you take some money off the table. I.E. sell some of your stock.

You shouldn't have more than 20% of your portfolio in any one stock. That's a general rule for many situations.

Here's something "torn from the headlines". Imagine if somehow you became "rich", and then you entrusted Bernie Madoff with "a huge chunk" of your money. How do you think you would feel right now? That's not a theoretical question; many real people found themselves in that situation in the last year.

Wouldn't you be a lot happier if you only gave Bernie 20% of your money?

Mr.Broncosfan · 03-04-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin

I know this isn't a stock forum, and you probably know this already, but maybe this will help some other people here who might be tempted to speculate in the market based on this decision ...

Remember Cramer's first motto: "Bulls make money, bears make money, hogs get slaughtered".

And his second motto: "Diversification is the only free lunch".

You don't have any extra bucks unless you take some money off the table. I.E. sell some of your stock.

You shouldn't have more than 20% of your portfolio in any one stock. That's a general rule for many situations.

Here's something "torn from the headlines". Imagine if somehow you became "rich", and then you entrusted Bernie Madoff with "a huge chunk" of your money. How do you think you would feel right now? That's not a theoretical question; many real people found themselves in that situation in the last year.

Wouldn't you be a lot happier if you only gave Bernie 20% of your money?

Let me guess. You short TIVO stock?

rlcarr · 03-04-2010, 09:14 PM

FWIW, a friend of mine who is an intellectual property lawyer (and who has in fact argued cases before the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit) and a TiVo owner read over the decision and dissent and told me he feels the chances of en banc review being granted are slim.

Phantom Gremlin · 03-04-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Broncosfan

Let me guess. You short TIVO stock?

You just don't get it, do you?

Do you think you would rather still own 100% of your stake in this stock at $11.35 a share or do you think you would be happier if you took some money off the table at $1500 a share?

I'm not passing judgement on TiVo's stock valuation. That's not allowed here. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to short it. I'm just warning people to be careful.