TiVo FCC Filing

[JohnBrowning]

Have at it!!

TiVo: Cable Should Love It Some IP

[MickeS]

What TiVo is saying here makes perfect sense. So of course, the cable companies will fight it tooth and nail.

[innocentfreak]

I definitely support it.

They really need to mandate something where the cable enters the house that unlocks everything you pay for. Let the cable companies still offer DVRs if they want, but STBs should be an option instead of a requirement.

[comgenius1]

Originally Posted by innocentfreak

I definitely support it.

They really need to mandate something where the cable enters the house that unlocks everything you pay for. Let the cable companies still offer DVRs if they want, but STBs should be an option instead of a requirement.

I agree. I think its rediculous the amount of greed that goes on in the cable industry. Take my provider (cableone) for example. Theres a whole slew of HD channels I could get. However, I have to either rent their box, or get a cablecard from them, even though I dont have to subscribe to their digital cable tier to get those HD channels. To add even more insult to injury, they rent the box for at least $7 a month, and you have to have a credit card on file to get one. know several people that are paying that just to get the HD version of ESPN (we already get ESPN in basic cable, and used to get ESPN in clearQam until about a year ago).

[BigJimOutlaw]

Tivo makes a pretty compelling case, especially knowing that TV is going to be increasingly moving to Switched Digital and IPTV over the next several years. 3rd party devices could be screwed.

If an IP-based return path to the headend can be achieved "without any extraordinary reconfiguration" and without even requiring new tru2way hardware (as is being done with RCN via SeaChange) to resolve current and future VOD, IPTV and SDV issues, then it sounds like common sense (for customers). But cable has their own agenda, of course, and it sounds like control and obstruction.

[jcthorne]

The cable companies are too short sighted to see this is thier chance at a real future.

Linear video delivery via subscription based cable is dieing. Just does not know it yet.

Full VOD, IP based video subscription services are where the video content industry is going, with or without the cable companies. Tivo has a vision of how to get there that uses the cable companies as a viable supplier of content.

What you see with netflix now is where most all video is headed long term. Including what we now know as broadcast tv channels and television series. There will no longer be 'air dates' but rather 'first availability dates'.

Cable companies should see this as an opprotunity to be a part of the video delivery industry in the future. If they dont, they will end up being little more than a internet data pipe provider. Funny, for me, thats all they are now.

[orangeboy]

Originally Posted by jcthorne

...Cable companies should see this as an opprotunity to be a part of the video delivery industry in the future. If they dont, they will end up being little more than a internet data pipe provider. Funny, for me, thats all they are now.

Yep, I made that switch myself. OTA + Internet = (more than) enough content for me.

[Len McRiddles]

Originally Posted by orangeboy

Yep, I made that switch myself. OTA + Internet = (more than) enough content for me.

Same here a year ago. I will never go back to cable or Satellite.

[slowbiscuit]

From the article:

TiVo has been able to iron out some of these wrinkles without help from the government. Last year, for example, TiVo and SeaChange International Inc. (Nasdaq: SEAC) struck a partnership to allow the integration of cable VoD services with TiVo DVRs without involving tru2way. The DVR would use its Ethernet port as an IP return path that interfaces with SeaChange's VoD system. That way, the box could obtain the necessary metadata and set up the video streaming sessions.

Which has not seen the light of day even though it was promised for sometime last year.

I agree with the gist of Tivo's argument, but given that it makes too much sense and completely takes CableLabs (and cable's control of the user experience) out of the picture, it will never fly.

[nrc]

Originally Posted by jcthorne

The cable companies are too short sighted to see this is thier chance at a real future.

Yep, and people are starting to recognize it. The Motley Fool recently called cable and satellite broadcasters a "dead industry walking." Cable will survive as a data pipe provider, but TiVo is really throwing them a lifeline that can give them hope of continuing as content providers.

Why? Because DirecTV has had its day. Short-term traders might have some fun with broadcasting stocks for a while, but if you truly do invest for the long term, this is a dead industry walking. That ominous verdict covers both Dish and DirecTV, Comcast (Nasdaq: CMCSA) and Time Warner Cable, as well as the fledgling TV services offered by Verizon and AT&T.

If you look 10 years ahead, cable and satellite broadcasting will look like a dinosaur of a business model. Overrun by nimbler and ultimately more appealing models based on all-digital streams and/or downloads, the likes of DirecTV will seem as appealing to investors as terrestrial radio is today: outdated, uncompetitive, unprofitable. Maybe I'm wrong about the date, though -- this could happen much sooner than 2020.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...-ignoring.aspx

[shwru980r]

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by shwru980r

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

Sure, if you were happy with SD.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by shwru980r

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

the technology to allow HD inputs was very expensive until recently (if it still isn't expensive)- that wasn't (isnt?) realistic for a device sold for 200-300 bucks.

[nrc]

Originally Posted by shwru980r

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

With cheap multi-tuner DVRs available from cable companies there is very little demand for a device that consumers would have to configure to work with their cable box just to get a single tuner.

[NotVeryWitty]

Originally Posted by slowbiscuit

Which has not seen the light of day even though it was promised for sometime last year.

No, but that's how the RCN Tivo unit will communicate with the head end. They're supposed to be starting field trials this month.

[lessd]

Originally Posted by shwru980r

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

Connected to the cable co box, what would be the point of any Series 3 when any Series 2 would get the job done, you can't record HD from any cable co box, only a direct connection to the cable will let you record HD. (and a cable card(s) if you want guide data and non open channels)

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by shwru980r

The series 2 allowed TIVO to control a set top box. Had the series 3/HD come with this feature this would be a moot point. TIVO could have easily allowed two set top box inputs.

That's what cablecards are for.

[vman41]

Originally Posted by lessd

Connected to the cable co box, what would be the point of any Series 3 when any Series 2 would get the job done, you can't record HD from any cable co box, only a direct connection to the cable will let you record HD. (and a cable card(s) if you want guide data and non open channels)

I seem to recall cable boxes with firewire output, which would have provided a path for recording digital content.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by vman41

I seem to recall cable boxes with firewire output, which would have provided a path for recording digital content.

actually i think there's a mandate that cable MUST give you a box with firewire if you ask.

But what's the bit-rate? Is it possible with reasonably affordable hardware to record that in real time? (I'm forgetting but I assume there is a logical reason why tivo didn't go that route way back when before even cablecards where availible)

[acvthree]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

actually i think there's a mandate that cable MUST give you a box with firewire if you ask.

But what's the bit-rate? Is it possible with reasonably affordable hardware to record that in real time? (I'm forgetting but I assume there is a logical reason why tivo didn't go that route way back when before even cablecards where availible)

Are they mandated that they work?

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

actually i think there's a mandate that cable MUST give you a box with firewire if you ask.

The mandate is not enforced.

Comcast and other cable providers routinely issue firmware updates that break Firewire output. In response to complaints, they might issue a new firmware to fix Firewire output, but then break it a few months later with another update. The cycle repeats. That's what cable customers have had to deal with over the past few years.

[innocentfreak]

On a side note, no predictions bkdtv for the announcement?

[MichaelK]

so seems as if they have as much disgust for firewire as they do for cablecard?

I guess firewire isn't real world usable ....