Questions about the new 2010 Tivo boxes...

sublimnl · 10-19-2009, 07:54 AM

I have been struggling with Comcast just so that I can have my TivoHD and have just about had enough of it all. Its been a year and they still can't get all of my channels working at the same time. Pathetic.

As such, I am considering switching back to DTV (used to have a hacked directivo around 04/05), but I cannot give up some of the features that I currently have with my TiVoHD - namely, multiroom viewing, Audio/Video streaming from my PC to the TiVo, and Amazon/Netflix VOD. I know the Amazon/Netflix support is a real longshot given that DTV has their own PPV service, so maybe this one I can live without, though the wife wouldn't like it.

So, some questions...

1. Will the new TiVo be a brand new hardware platform, or just software loaded on an existing DTV box?

2. If it is software then would I be able to buy an HR21 today and upgrade to the TiVo environment later on?

3. I see that DTV has the MediaShare and MRV features now on their own receivers. Are we expecting that they will allow TiVo to do the same with their OS?

4. The HR21 has DLNA support, which is a welcome change from having to use TiVo Desktop Plus, which is dog slow at transcoding video on my home network (PlayOn works great when transcoding the same content from the same machine for streaming HD content to my PS3, so the Tivo desktop software has to take the blame here). Do we know if the Tivo box will also support DLNA, or will we be forced to use their proprietary software?

5. Is there anything concrete out there as far as features we can expect?

Thanks in advance for help on these questions! I'm really hoping to get away from Comcast with the quickness, so I'm hoping for good news!

joed32 · 10-19-2009, 08:20 AM

There hasn't been any solid news about them yet, but there is a lot of speculation.

stevel · 10-19-2009, 09:49 AM

My guess is that we won't find out anything specific until CES in January. At least I hope we will by then.

There has indeed been a lot of speculation, but that's all it is.

I'll note that MRV is not yet a released feature on the DirecTV+ boxes.

ewilts · 10-19-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublimnl

I know the Amazon/Netflix support is a real longshot given that DTV has their own PPV service, so maybe this one I can live without, though the wife wouldn't like it.

You can solve this problem with a $100 Roku box - in fact, the Netflix streaming is better on the Roku than on the TiVo. My TiVo has crashed several times hard enough to require a power plug pull following Netflix viewing but my Roku has never had issues. The Roku Digital Video Player handles both Amazon and Netflix (and more).

http://www.roku.com/what-to-watch

shibby191 · 10-19-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublimnl

but I cannot give up some of the features that I currently have with my TiVoHD - namely, multiroom viewing, Audio/Video streaming from my PC to the TiVo, and Amazon/Netflix VOD. I know the Amazon/Netflix support is a real longshot given that DTV has their own PPV service, so maybe this one I can live without, though the wife wouldn't like it.

Just an FYI that all of these are available on the HR2x DirecTV platform already (MRV is in testing for release by year's end). So long as this new Tivo can interoperate with the HR2x platform then it's a good bet they will be available on the Tivo as well. But there are Zero details on what this Tivo box is or it's features, still.

I would agree with the Roku box if Netflix is a top priority, it is better then anything DLNA or Tivo can provide.

sjberra · 10-19-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevel

My guess is that we won't find out anything specific until CES in January. At least I hope we will by then.

There has indeed been a lot of speculation, but that's all it is.

I'll note that MRV is not yet a released feature on the DirecTV+ boxes.

Going to be interesting if they even hit CES with a demo box.

stevel · 10-19-2009, 07:14 PM

If they don't, something is SERIOUSLY wrong.

djwilso · 10-19-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewilts

You can solve this problem with a $100 Roku box - in fact, the Netflix streaming is better on the Roku than on the TiVo. My TiVo has crashed several times hard enough to require a power plug pull following Netflix viewing but my Roku has never had issues. The Roku Digital Video Player handles both Amazon and Netflix (and more).

http://www.roku.com/what-to-watch

I totally agree. I've had my Roku box since it came out and it has been flawless.

It already has Netflix and Amazon VOD and will be adding a number of new "channels" soon.

ewilts · 10-19-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwilso

I totally agree. I've had my Roku box since it came out and it has been flawless.

It already has Netflix and Amazon VOD and will be adding a number of new "channels" soon.

And the Roku XR seems to be imminent, if the rumors are true.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/10/19...omething-more/. They've got pictures of the new box, but no pictures of what new software, if any, it's got.

djwilso · 10-19-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevel

If they don't, something is SERIOUSLY wrong.

I agree. I'm really excited to see what TiVo has been working on developing.

I'd love to see 4 HD tuners, expanded buffer, SDV support, VOD/In Demand support, better clipping protection when dealing with multiple simultaneous recordings from the same channel, ability to stream content to any TiVo or computer in the house to avoid CCI / copy-protection limitations.

BGTivo · 10-20-2009, 02:31 AM

I'm in a similar situation. My Directivo died a few days ago. I am considering getting one of Directv HD DVR boxes but want to move to the Directv Tivo box when it is released at some point. I have not gotten any new equipment from Directv for many years. What is their policy on new equipment? Will I be able to trade-in the Directv HD dvr for a new Tivo unit when it is released? Anyone willing to speculate?

They are offering me a new dish, directv Hd dvr and HD receiver without any additional cost but I don't want to use up my ability to get the Tivo unit when it is released.

stevel · 10-20-2009, 11:06 AM

There is no "policy", and DirecTV doesn't historically do trade-ins. They may offer discounted deals on new boxes. It is my belief that the new DTiVo will be a "premium" offering which will either not be available with the typical deals or will require a surcharge.

GBTheater · 10-21-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTivo

I'm in a similar situation. My Directivo died a few days ago. I am considering getting one of Directv HD DVR boxes but want to move to the Directv Tivo box when it is released at some point. I have not gotten any new equipment from Directv for many years. What is their policy on new equipment? Will I be able to trade-in the Directv HD dvr for a new Tivo unit when it is released? Anyone willing to speculate?

They are offering me a new dish, directv Hd dvr and HD receiver without any additional cost but I don't want to use up my ability to get the Tivo unit when it is released.

I came back to DirecTV after they announced the pending release of the DirecTivo. I specifically asked and had them note on my account that I was switching back because of the new agreement with Tivo and any DirecTV HD DVR that I was "Leasing" at the time of the release of the DirecTivo could be traded in for a DirecTivo unit at no charge.

Now, whether or not they'll actually honor that when they are released is another story, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Since 80% of our viewing is on the local HD's anyway, I currently have 2 HR-21's and three Series 3 Tivo's all upgraded to 1TB drives. If DirecTV wants to charge me a premium of $5 a month for Tivo service, I'll gladly pay it with a smile on my face. Nothing compares to a Tivo, and yuo all know it!

VonBrick · 10-21-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBTheater

Since 80% of our viewing is on the local HD's anyway, I currently have 2 HR-21's and three Series 3 Tivo's all upgraded to 1TB drives. If DirecTV wants to charge me a premium of $5 a month for Tivo service, I'll gladly pay it with a smile on my face. Nothing compares to a Tivo, and yuo all know it!

We used to have TiVo's at all three of the TV's in our house. Ever since installing Windows Media Center, extenders and an XBOX 360 at the TV's in the house, our usage has slowly migrated to mostly MC. The kids love the music/photo/movie features much better on MC and we've upgraded to over 5 TB of television storage at about 1 third of the cost of doing the same on TiVo. The sad part of THAT is that we've actually started using the Hulu plug-in more than all of that TV we've recorded.

At this point, I think TiVo has waited too long to innovate (if they were in a position to continue innovating in this space). I truly believe now that the habits and usage patterns of the audience have grown past what TiVo can offer now or in the future.

Just my 2 cents...

lvthunder · 10-26-2009, 02:51 PM

What do you mean? TiVo is in a perfect position to be a competitor to Media Center. TiVo can basically do anything they want in the future since it's not tied to a particular content provider.

TyroneShoes · 10-26-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBTheater

...Nothing compares to a Tivo, and yuo all know it!

I'm afraid that is no longer the case. You seem to be speaking from the point of view of someone unfamiliar with anything other than Tivo.

As someone who has owned DVRs from 7 or 8 different manufacturers over the last decade I am not unfamiliar with what it was to be a loyal Tivo fanatic and to realize how superior it was (past tense) to everything else out there, but things have changed dramatically in the last couple of years. Many of us who have lived with both Tivo and the HD DVR+ platform have grown to accept that the DVR+ is a very serious contender. Also, CNet claims the DISH DVRS are superior to all others (something I have a bit of trouble agreeing with, given my experience with them). But you only have to search this very thread to find a very long and significant list of clever and innovative features of the HD DVR+ platform that Tivo has never even dreamed about.

I have been running two HR20's alongside two HR10-250's for some time now, and the HR20's are much more reliable, have significantly more storage capacity expansion capability, and are comparitively feature-laden. There is only a slight ergonomic superiority owned by Tivo and even that is quite debatable.

As a matter of fact, there really are only four things about my HR10-250's that I prefer over the HR20's:

1) Slo-mo is implemented slightly better on the HR10

2) Playlist sorting is done slightly better

3) Some HR2x features are still a bit half-baked and need some work (though most HR2x features are fully realized and I wonder how I got along without them)

4) FFWDx1 is smooth and not jerky

(Of course #4 is not so much a flaw of the HR2x as it is a necessity of MPEG-4 delivery, so the HR2x gets a pass here; I can predict with confidence that the new MPEG-4 Tivo will have the same issue)

But other than that, my newer HR20's simply run rings around my old venerable HR10's (not to mention that they get some 140 HD channels as compared to 7 on the HR10). The addition of adjacent recording overlap (even on the same tuner) alone makes the HR20's a winner in my book. The king is dead; long live the king.

I think it will be a very steep order for Tivo to produce a DVR for DTV that can live up to "premium" status, as DTV has not been sitting still, and Tivo has their work cut out for them.

bengalfreak · 10-28-2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

I have been running two HR20's alongside two HR10-250's for some time now, and the HR20's are much more reliable, have significantly more storage capacity expansion capability, and are comparitively feature-laden. There is only a slight ergonomic superiority owned by Tivo and even that is quite debatable.

You are comparing new equipment with a Tivo DVR that is five years old. Hardly a fair comparison at all. Compare your HR20 to a TivoHD and see where you are.

sjberra · 10-28-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengalfreak

You are comparing new equipment with a Tivo DVR that is five years old. Hardly a fair comparison at all. Compare your HR20 to a TivoHD and see where you are.

Why compare a driectv reciever to something that cannot work on the system? The 3rd party box is useless unless it works at the base level.

I doubt you will see a lot of the "features" that are available on the 3rd party box, especially anything that duplicates functionality that Direct already supplies with their service

TyroneShoes · 10-28-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengalfreak

You are comparing new equipment with a Tivo DVR that is five years old. Hardly a fair comparison at all. Compare your HR20 to a TivoHD and see where you are.

Not so.

A DVR platform is as old as its latest software, not measured by its build date, which makes them almost virtual twin siblings. Besides, I mentioned that I had the HR10, but I am comparing all Tivo. I have asked repeatedly for folks to post what comparative features the Tivo HD has to the HR2x platform, and no has yet been able to confirm that it has any of the newer features of the HR2x, or even that it has any features that the HR10 does not have, other than a couple that are relatively insignificant. Reliability may be better, but according to some reports, maybe not. Capacity expansion seems to be about the same. Until someone can confirm that it has something significant other than what the HR10 has, how is my report unfair?

Folks already pay a premium price for the Tivo HD, both out of the box and monthly, compared to what DTV subs pay for a HR2x (I got both of mine for free with no contract extension). If Tivo expects a MPEG-4 IRD/DVR comparable to the Tivo HD to enjoy premium status, I think they might be about as deluded as the NBC execs who thought Jay Leno at 10 was a good idea.

So let's see...where are we?

whitepelican · 10-28-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

Some HR2x features are still a bit half-baked and need some work (most HR2x features are fully realized and I wonder how I got along without them)

Just curious what those "fully realized" features are. Because I've only ever found half-baked ones on the HR20s. I've given up on the HR2x boxes because there were just too many annoyances for me (and especially for my wife) to overcome. Those annoyances came down to basic DVR functions like the horrible playlist sorting, and the even more horrible search functions. And don't get me started on the pathetic "MediaShare" that can't even FFWD or REW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

the HR20's are much more reliable

This is the exact opposite of my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

have significantly more storage capacity expansion capability

"Significantly more"??? I guess you must be talking about eSata, but that's pretty pathetic. If you can't take a couple of screws out of the box and plug the drive into a different cable, then I guess eSata is a revelation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

and are comparitively feature-laden.

That completely depends on what features you want to compare. Suggestions? 8 rows of channels in the guide? Dual live buffers that are always active? How about search results that show channels you actually receive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

But other than that, my newer HR20's simply run rings around my old venerable HR10's

While I have no doubt that is true in your case, this statement almost made me cough up my muffin. My HR10's are many, many times more responsive and faster at every function than the pathetic HR20-100 and even more pathetic HR21-100 that they replaced.

shibby191 · 10-28-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitepelican

"Significantly more"??? I guess you must be talking about eSata, but that's pretty pathetic. If you can't take a couple of screws out of the box and plug the drive into a different cable, then I guess eSata is a revelation.

99.9% of people can't do this. Thus eSata is a great solution (other then it replaces the internal and isn't additive). If you so desire you can very easily pop open a DirecTV DVR and replace the internal drive. Literally just replace it and boot it up and the DVR will format and get it setup automatically. This does violate your lease agreement but if you own it or don't care about the lease agreement then rock on.

Besides, doesn't the Tivo HD expansion also use eSata or USB in addition to the option to replace the internal? Sounds about the same to me.

cindyanded · 10-28-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTivo

I'm in a similar situation. My Directivo died a few days ago. I am considering getting one of Directv HD DVR boxes but want to move to the Directv Tivo box when it is released at some point. I have not gotten any new equipment from Directv for many years. What is their policy on new equipment? Will I be able to trade-in the Directv HD dvr for a new Tivo unit when it is released? Anyone willing to speculate?

They are offering me a new dish, directv Hd dvr and HD receiver without any additional cost but I don't want to use up my ability to get the Tivo unit when it is released.

Two weeks ago I called to cancel my account. I told them the reason was because I just got an HDTV and they don't offer a high def TiVo. We've had DirecTv's and TiVo's for about 8 years now and didn't want to get rid of our TiVo's. The Service rep said that the Tivo's were do out by the end of the year but when I pressed him, he said first quarter of next year. I said that wasn't good enough so he offered to give us their HD DVR until the HD Tivo's came out and they would swap them out. He said he marked the account to make it happen.

I told him I'd think on it and then called back two days later and asked the person to read me what was marked on the account. True enough, they noted that they'd send me an HD TiVo when them came out and give me the HD DVR in the mean time. All at no cost to me.

So, I guess time will tell if they follow through but it seems they will. So now I'm enjoying their DVR which isn't that bad and I can always upgrade to the TiVo later.

sjberra · 10-28-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cindyanded

Two weeks ago I called to cancel my account. I told them the reason was because I just got an HDTV and they don't offer a high def TiVo. We've had DirecTv's and TiVo's for about 8 years now and didn't want to get rid of our TiVo's. The Service rep said that the Tivo's were do out by the end of the year but when I pressed him, he said first quarter of next year. I said that wasn't good enough so he offered to give us their HD DVR until the HD Tivo's came out and they would swap them out. He said he marked the account to make it happen.

I told him I'd think on it and then called back two days later and asked the person to read me what was marked on the account. True enough, they noted that they'd send me an HD TiVo when them came out and give me the HD DVR in the mean time. All at no cost to me.

So, I guess time will tell if they follow through but it seems they will. So now I'm enjoying their DVR which isn't that bad and I can always upgrade to the TiVo later.

Would not hold my breath for the "end of the year (all though you don't mention if they did state a year, moght be end of 2010 that they where referencing)" they have already said sometime in 2010 - and if they don;t show anything at CES, figure 2011 or so

shaown · 10-28-2009, 04:37 PM

I have nothing bad to say about the HD DVR+ platform, but I am SHOCKED you would compare a HR10 to a HR20/21 and consider that to be a fair comparison. HR10s are running what 6.xx version of Tivo SW, compared to what 11.xx on Series 3 platforms? That is an incredibly old baseline!!!

When Tivo releases a new version for DirectTV, I'm sure they will base it on a Series 3 or 4 platform, and roll up whatever features DirectTV allows them to.

Features not present in a HR10 but available in current Tivos includes (but is not limited to) support for MRV (transfer between Tivos), TivoToGo (download video to PCs), YouTube playback, Amazon VOD, NetFlix support, Blockbuster Support, The new HD Tivo Search/Swivel Search like functionality, Ability to run HME apps including order Pizza, Weather, Yahoo, etc, etc, Support for Web Videos, ability to schedule remotely via tivo.com, ability to see your to-do/now playing lists remotely (I think), and finally hardware abilities like the ability to use external storage via eSata and wireless adaptors via usb. There are many other improvements from Version 6 to Version 11.x that I am sure I have missed on UI, etc, etc.

-Shaown

stevel · 10-28-2009, 07:11 PM

One can remote schedule on an HR10 through directv.com.

samo · 10-28-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaown

Features not present in a HR10 but available in current Tivos includes (but is not limited to)... Ability to run HME apps including order Pizza .....
-Shaown

That is my favorite. How can competitors call their machine a DVR and not offer this important DVR functionality. You also missed the pause ads. Great feature for people who want to have the best that DVRs have to offer.

Matt L · 10-29-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaown

Features not present in a HR10 but available in current Tivos includes (but is not limited to) support for MRV (transfer between Tivos), TivoToGo (download video to PCs), YouTube playback, Amazon VOD, NetFlix support, Blockbuster Support, The new HD Tivo Search/Swivel Search like functionality, Ability to run HME apps including order Pizza, Weather, Yahoo, etc, etc, Support for Web Videos, ability to schedule remotely via tivo.com, ability to see your to-do/now playing lists remotely (I think), and finally hardware abilities like the ability to use external storage via eSata and wireless adaptors via usb. There are many other improvements from Version 6 to Version 11.x that I am sure I have missed on UI, etc, etc.

-Shaown

No killer apps there for me. I have no desire to order Pizza via TiVo, I doubt D will let netflix in or Blockbuster. The rest I pretty much have now on my HR2x. I have no idea what Swivel search is.

sjberra · 10-29-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

That is my favorite. How can competitors call their machine a DVR and not offer this important DVR functionality. You also missed the pause ads. Great feature for people who want to have the best that DVRs have to offer.

If I wanted to order pizza would just do it via the online game I play with the /pizza command, simple and a lot faster

GKevinK · 10-29-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevel

One can remote schedule on an HR10 through directv.com.

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

Rainy Dave · 10-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

Hmm...I've never been charged extra for using online scheduling on directv.com.