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Old 11-28-2015, 11:59 AM   #1
dsa1971
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moca adapter trouble

Moved into a new house and trying to get my moca network setup. I have two actiontec moca adapters. At my previous house I used these with verizon. Now I am with comcast. So I connected wall coax to adapter coax connection. other connection went from adapter to cable modem. ethernet cable connected from actiontec adapter to my router. ethernet cable also goes from able modem to #1 spot on wireless router. all lights on actiontec are flashing green. my wireless works so internet is good. connecting the other actiontec adapter to other coax I'm not getting any coax light flashing on adapter.

on outside setup of coax the comcast line comes into to two way splitter. one line goes to the coax for the cable modem the other goes to a splitter for tv coax outlets. any ideas why this won't work?

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Old 11-28-2015, 01:35 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsa1971 View Post
Moved into a new house and trying to get my moca network setup. I have two actiontec moca adapters. At my previous house I used these with verizon. Now I am with comcast. So I connected wall coax to adapter coax connection. other connection went from adapter to cable modem. ethernet cable connected from actiontec adapter to my router. ethernet cable also goes from able modem to #1 spot on wireless router. all lights on actiontec are flashing green. my wireless works so internet is good. connecting the other actiontec adapter to other coax I'm not getting any coax light flashing on adapter.

on outside setup of coax the comcast line comes into to two way splitter. one line goes to the coax for the cable modem the other goes to a splitter for tv coax outlets. any ideas why this won't work?
Hi,
If I am reading you correctly, you have the old Verizon router connected via Ethernet to WAN and the coax also connected. If you have the a Tivo with MoCA, just "connect via MoCA", do not "create a MoCA network". The Actiontec will act as the MoCA network controller all by itself, you should not connect the adapter to the Actiontec router. You also should have a MoCA POE / Whole Home DVR filter on the input of the first splitter to enter your home. These are not needed with Fios but are necessary on Comcast. You don't mention the make and model of the cable modem but some are not MoCA friendly, however if you are getting internet ok, you should be good with just the filter on the main feed.
If still no joy after making the changes, consider a factory reset on the router and MoCA adapters, as well as your Tivos.


Last edited by fcfc2; 11-28-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:07 PM   #3
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Hi,
If I am reading you correctly, you have the old Verizon router connected via Ethernet to WAN and the coax also connected. If you have the a Tivo with MoCA, just "connect via MoCA", do not "create a MoCA network". The Actiontec will act as the MoCA network controller all by itself, you should not connect the adapter to the Actiontec router. You also should have a MoCA POE / Whole Home DVR filter on the input of the first splitter to enter your home. These are not needed with Fios but are necessary on Comcast. You don't mention the make and model of the cable modem but some are not MoCA friendly, however if you are getting internet ok, you should be good with just the filter on the main feed.
If still no joy after making the changes, consider a factory reset on the router and MoCA adapters, as well as your Tivos.
Sorry. I'm not using the Verizon router. I have a net gear router and Motorola arris cable modem. I don't have a poe filter. Would no Poe filter make the Mocs network not work?

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Old 11-28-2015, 03:52 PM   #4
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Sorry. I'm not using the Verizon router. I have a net gear router and Motorola arris cable modem. I don't have a poe filter. Would no Poe filter make the Mocs network not work?
Maybe. While a PoE filter can give a very significant improvement in MoCA signal strength, they aren't absolutely required, and many MoCA networks can function without a PoE filter.

I'm guessing crappy splitters are the main issue here, but that is only a guess.

All coax outlets need to either be connected to a TV, STB, TiVo or other equipment, or be capped with a 75-ohm termination. Similarly, any unused outputs on splitters need to be capped with a termination (better yet, replace the splitter with a smaller one that only has the number of outputs that you really need). If the "TV/STB out" port of the "other" MoCA adapter is not connected to anything, it will also need a 75-ohm termination.

Ideally, all splitters should be rated up to 1675MHz or higher. Splitters rated only to 1000MHz will sometimes work for MoCA, sometimes not.

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Old 11-28-2015, 04:08 PM   #5
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Maybe. While a PoE filter can give a very significant improvement in MoCA signal strength, they aren't absolutely required, and many MoCA networks can function without a PoE filter.

I'm guessing crappy splitters are the main issue here, but that is only a guess.

All coax outlets need to either be connected to a TV, STB, TiVo or other equipment, or be capped with a 75-ohm termination. Similarly, any unused outputs on splitters need to be capped with a termination (better yet, replace the splitter with a smaller one that only has the number of outputs that you really need). If the "TV/STB out" port of the "other" MoCA adapter is not connected to anything, it will also need a 75-ohm termination.

Ideally, all splitters should be rated up to 1675MHz or higher. Splitters rated only to 1000MHz will sometimes work for MoCA, sometimes not.
Comcast tech came today. He redid all the splitters and connections on the outside so I don't think that's the issue at this point. I tried the moca adapters after and no luck. I can try terminate the other unused outlets but I never had an issue in my old house. I suppose I could try adding poe filter but I suspect that's not the issue. My current 2 tivo's are premiere's so no built in wireless. So I have to figure out if I need to buy two wireless N adapters at $59 each or get new tivo roamios with built in wifi or go with comcast dvr. This assuming I can't get moca network working.

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Old 11-28-2015, 09:01 PM   #6
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No splitters inside the home? Are there any amps on the line?

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Old 11-28-2015, 11:22 PM   #7
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Background info...

Product Info: Could you provide the model numbers for your:
  • Netgear Router
  • Motorola/Arris Cable Modem
  • TiVo Premiere(#1)
  • TiVo Premiere(#2)
  • MoCA adapters (including a count, and model for each)
  • Secondary splitter mentioned in the following quoted text (including number of output ports); same for main splitter, too, if you can get it;
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dsa1971 View Post
    on outside setup of coax the comcast line comes into to two way splitter. one line goes to the coax for the cable modem the other goes to a splitter for tv coax outlets.

Re: "PoE" MoCA filter: With a Comcast tech having come and gone, can you report whether they installed a "PoE" MoCA filter outside? As others have said, the absence of a MoCA filter on your PoE shouldn't prevent MoCA from getting going, but you'll need to verify you have one installed as soon as possible -- presuming you can get MoCA working!


Last edited by krkaufman; 11-29-2015 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:43 PM   #8
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MoCA adapter reset and testing

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Originally Posted by fcfc2 View Post
... If still no joy after making the changes, consider a factory reset on the router and MoCA adapters, as well as your Tivos.
Given your problem description seems to indicate you have things connected correctly, I'm left wondering if your MoCA adapters don't have some FiOS hangover. So, I'm going to cast a vote for "MoCA adapter factory reset," as a first step, lacking any other great insight.

Following the resets, I'd recommend trying this simple test: a direct connection between two MoCA adapters, to prove that they can connect -- before trying to get them to connect over your home's coax plant.
  1. Ensure the MoCA adapters are powered off;

  2. Connect one MoCA adapter's Ethernet port to one of your router's LAN ports;

  3. Direct-connect the two MoCA adapters via their coax IN ports;

  4. Power-up MoCA adapters and review status LEDs for indication of connectivity;

  5. Attach a laptop or PC to the 2nd MoCA adapter's Ethernet port to test network and Internet connectivity; (Just be sure to disable wireless on the laptop/PC to ensure there's no confusion.)

If the MoCA adapters can't at least communicate directly with each other, and support a single wired Ethernet laptop/PC, the makeup of your coax plant is moot.


Last edited by krkaufman; 11-29-2015 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:56 PM   #9
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Coax port testing using your cable modem

Another thing to check is whether a given coax outlet in a room actually connects back to that main splitter out in your cable box.

A quick way to verify this, provided you can take a brief Internet connectivity hit, is to use your cable modem... connecting it to any coax wall outlet you're looking to test, and see if the cable modem is able to sync and reach a stable state -- based on its status LEDs.

This will help you test whether a given outlet is physically connected back to the Comcast PoE, but it won't rule-out the possibility of some MoCA-specific conflict (such as an amp on the line, a MoCA-unfriendly splitter, ...), since MoCA and cable modems operate at different frequencies.


Last edited by krkaufman; 11-29-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:54 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Another thing to check is whether a given coax outlet in a room actually connects back to that main splitter out in your cable box.

A quick way to verify this, provided you can take a brief Internet connectivity hit, is to use your cable modem... connecting it to any coax wall outlet you're looking to test, and see if the cable modem is able to sync and reach a stable state -- based on its status LEDs.

This will help you test whether a given outlet is physically connected back to the Comcast PoE, but it won't rule-out the possibility of some MoCA-specific conflict (such as an amp on the line, a MoCA-unfriendly splitter, ...).
Wow! Thanks for all the helpful tips. I gave up fiddling with things yesterday after awhile and, at this point, am hesitant to fiddle to much. I may just go the route of having a Zyxel wap3205 which I can setup in client mode and connect my tivo to that. It should work okay and will be better than spending $60 on a wireless n tivo adapter.

Would the issue be that the internet connection and tvs are on separate splitters? I don't know if this is how comcast reconfigured things but before they came and moca wasn't working either the main comcast drop connected to a splitter with two splits. one split went for the internet and the other went to the larger splitter which connects all the tvs. dealing with comcast, I'm hesitant to mess with any of the cabling at this point for fear something won't work and getting them out hear is a nightmare.

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Old 11-29-2015, 10:10 AM   #11
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Thanks for all the helpful tips.
Not a problem; you're welcome. (It's not entirely altruistic; it *is* nice to divert some of that X1 & "Additional Outlet" revenue away from Comcast!)


Quote:
I gave up fiddling with things yesterday after awhile and, at this point, am hesitant to fiddle to much. I may just go the route of having a Zyxel wap3205 which I can setup in client mode and connect my tivo to that. It should work okay and will be better than spending $60 on a wireless n tivo adapter.
I can't speak to using wireless with a TiVo Mini. Many have had success, and it seems a workable solution for a limited number of Minis. I'd keep wireless in the back pocket, though, and give MoCA a bit more time/effort. You may not be as far away from success as it seems.


Quote:
Would the issue be that the internet connection and tvs are on separate splitters? I don't know if this is how comcast reconfigured things but before they came and moca wasn't working either the main comcast drop connected to a splitter with two splits. one split went for the internet and the other went to the larger splitter which connects all the tvs.
Multiple splitters, within reason, is not a problem; incompatible splitters or amps, disconnected cables on the other hand...


Quote:
I'm hesitant to mess with any of the cabling at this point for fear something won't work and getting them out hear is a nightmare.
Eh, coax lines aren't that fragile; you won't break anything.

I'll keep an eye on the thread for any updates, should you opt to proceed with a skosh more troubleshooting. (Your model information would be useful for keeping the natives occupied whilst you give the MoCA adapter reset and testing a try.)

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Old 11-29-2015, 10:11 AM   #12
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Most critically... what brand/model number are your MoCA adapters?


p.s. The MoCA adapter reset & test, and using the cable modem to check coax connectivity for the outlet to which you're trying to connect the "other actiontec adapter" wouldn't take much time.


Last edited by krkaufman; 11-29-2015 at 04:43 PM. Reason: corrected remote device
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dsa1971 View Post
Comcast tech came today. ... So I have to figure out if I need to buy two wireless N adapters at $59 each or get new tivo roamios with built in wifi or go with comcast dvr. This assuming I can't get moca network working.
  1. I wouldn't try to convince you NOT to upgrade to a 6-tuner Roamio with built-in mobile streaming, especially with the Holiday Sale making a Lifetime'd Roamio Pro available for $600 total; however, you'd probably want at least one Mini to go along with that Roamio, and MoCA would still be the preferred networking solution over wireless to enable Multi-Room Streaming (MRS).

  2. If the whole "getting MoCA working" thing is too much of a hassle, you *should* look into Comcast's Xfinity X1 whole-home solution: Comcast's X1 DVR and companion boxes also communicate over MoCA, so you could have them install their equipment, necessarily ensuring MoCA works over your coax lines, and then, if you still prefer the TiVo solution, return the X1 gear within the 30-day trial period. You *might* be out an installation fee, but that's sometimes negotiable up-front; and you're considering spending some money to go wireless, as an alternative, and, in my opinion, that money would be better spent going MoCA.

    If you opt for this route, you could have Comcast install an X1 where you're trying to put one Premiere and have them install an X1 companion box where you're trying to connect your MoCA adapter to your router, to simulate what I believe you're trying to do.

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Old 11-29-2015, 05:04 PM   #14
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Additional things to consider, assuming Actiontec ECB2500C MoCA adapters...
  • Are either of the MoCA adapters in "User Configuration Mode," because of the configuration switch being accidentally toggled to "CONFIG" mode?

    From the Actiontec ECB2500C User Configuration Guide:
    Note: The user will lose LAN / WAN connections on the wired / wireless networks while configuring the ECB2500. Network connections should resume after exiting the User Configuration Mode.
    From the ECB2500C FAQ:
    Why is only the coax light lit on the adapter when only a power cable is connected?
    This indicates the adapter is in the configuration mode. Flip the config switch to the run position and the light should now go back to power only.
  • Reset the MoCA adapters to factory defaults, per the ECB2500C FAQ:
    How do I reset the adapter to factory defaults?
    Press and hold the reset button in for 3 seconds then release it.
  • Check whether each MoCA adapter is using the latest stable firmware.

    From the ECB2500C FAQ:
    What is the current firmware version for my Actiontec Device?
    Current Firmware Versions (PDF) --- This document lists the current and legacy product firmware versions for Actiontec products.


p.s. Image of Actiontec ECB2500C backpanel:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Actiontec_ECB2500C_backpanel.jpg (26.3 KB, 144 views)

Last edited by krkaufman; 11-29-2015 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 11-30-2015, 06:47 PM   #15
dsa1971
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Additional things to consider, assuming Actiontec ECB2500C MoCA adapters...
  • Are either of the MoCA adapters in "User Configuration Mode," because of the configuration switch being accidentally toggled to "CONFIG" mode?

    From the Actiontec ECB2500C User Configuration Guide:
    Note: The user will lose LAN / WAN connections on the wired / wireless networks while configuring the ECB2500. Network connections should resume after exiting the User Configuration Mode.
    From the ECB2500C FAQ:
    Why is only the coax light lit on the adapter when only a power cable is connected?
    This indicates the adapter is in the configuration mode. Flip the config switch to the run position and the light should now go back to power only.
  • Reset the MoCA adapters to factory defaults, per the ECB2500C FAQ:
    How do I reset the adapter to factory defaults?
    Press and hold the reset button in for 3 seconds then release it.
  • Check whether each MoCA adapter is using the latest stable firmware.

    From the ECB2500C FAQ:
    What is the current firmware version for my Actiontec Device?
    Current Firmware Versions (PDF) --- This document lists the current and legacy product firmware versions for Actiontec products.


p.s. Image of Actiontec ECB2500C backpanel:
they are actually actiontec ecb2200. I've reset them. I could check the firmware version. I'm sure it's whatever they came with. I don't think there is a config switch

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Old 12-01-2015, 07:48 AM   #16
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The ECB2200 just like the ECB2500 has a recessed "config-run" switch almost exactly in the same position. To actually "reset" the device, if memory serves, you actually have to place the switch in the "config" position and then do the reset, otherwise, you "reset" nothing. After "resetting", move the switch back to the "run" position and try again. I doubt that this is your problem though.

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Old 12-01-2015, 09:24 AM   #17
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The ECB2200 just like the ECB2500 has a recessed "config-run" switch almost exactly in the same position. To actually "reset" the device, if memory serves, you actually have to place the switch in the "config" position and then do the reset, otherwise, you "reset" nothing. After "resetting", move the switch back to the "run" position and try again. I doubt that this is your problem though.
It looks like it depends on the specific version of the ECB2200 you have.

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File Type: png Actiontec ECB2200_20pct.png (183.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: png Actiontec_ECB2200V_Verizon.png (155.3 KB, 10 views)
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:17 AM   #18
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It looks like it depends on the specific version of the ECB2200 you have.
Hi,
Although it is not labeled, the small opening just to the right of the power port on the ECB2200 is where the "config-run" switch is located, unfortunately, it is not labeled. Moving the switch to the left will place the unit in the "config" setting but after any configuration changes, it should be returned to the right "run" position. A quick read of the downloadable configuration utility also mentions the use of the "config-run" switch also.
The unit should be powered off before moving the switch back and forth.

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Old 12-01-2015, 10:49 AM   #19
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Although it is not labeled, the small opening just to the right of the power port on the ECB2200 is where the "config-run" switch is located, unfortunately, it is not labeled.
Ha, thanks!! My laptop screen was tilted just a bit and so I didn't see that opening.

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Old 12-02-2015, 09:21 AM   #20
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Hi,
Although it is not labeled, the small opening just to the right of the power port on the ECB2200 is where the "config-run" switch is located, unfortunately, it is not labeled. Moving the switch to the left will place the unit in the "config" setting but after any configuration changes, it should be returned to the right "run" position. A quick read of the downloadable configuration utility also mentions the use of the "config-run" switch also.
The unit should be powered off before moving the switch back and forth.
Mine does not have the small opening.

IMG_2478.jpg

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Old 12-02-2015, 09:54 AM   #21
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Mine does not have the small opening.

Attachment 24474
That diminishes the chances that they're in CONFIG mode. Will have to see if there are any docs specific to that style.

Any luck with a direct connection between the adapters or between an adapter and a Mini?

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Old 12-02-2015, 12:33 PM   #22
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That diminishes the chances that they're in CONFIG mode. Will have to see if there are any docs specific to that style.

Any luck with a direct connection between the adapters or between an adapter and a Mini?
Haven't tried it yet but will tonight. Maybe this weekend, I'll take a picture of how comcast did the cabling outside.

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Old 12-03-2015, 06:47 PM   #23
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Haven't tried it yet but will tonight. Maybe this weekend, I'll take a picture of how comcast did the cabling outside.
Well. this uncovered the mystery. one of the moca adapters has failed. the ethernet connection does not work on one of the adapters. after direct connection one of the ethernet lights was not lighting up. took that one and connected directly to router. still did not light up. so that seems to be the issue. weird that it suddenly failed but guess must have gotten bumped or dropped or during the move.

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Old 12-03-2015, 06:56 PM   #24
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This is not that big a deal for me. Probably going to drop tivo once my subscriptions end in march of next year. I get the xfinitity x1 dvr free with my plan and I like that dvr just fine so just can't justify the tivo cost.

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Old 12-03-2015, 07:37 PM   #25
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MRS over MoCA

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Well. this uncovered the mystery. one of the moca adapters has failed. the ethernet connection does not work on one of the adapters. after direct connection one of the ethernet lights was not lighting up. took that one and connected directly to router. still did not light up. so that seems to be the issue. weird that it suddenly failed but guess must have gotten bumped or dropped or during the move.
I take it that you can't get Ethernet to your base Roamio and so need 2 MoCA adapters? (If your Roamio can connect via Ethernet, you'd just need the 1 adapter to create the MoCA network to allow the Mini to connect.)

As an alternative, if you *can't* get Ethernet to the Roamio and don't want to buy another MoCA adapter, here's something you could try: use MoCA between the Roamio and Mini -- but bridge this coax/MoCA segment to your router via either wireless or Powerline. Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) between the TiVo devices, which requires the most bandwidth, would be over the solid, wired MoCA connection, but service updates and Internet streaming would come over the wireless/Powerline bridge.

Equipment needed to wirelessly bridge your MoCA segment to your router:
(1) Wireless bridge (available wireless network assumed);
(1) Ethernet switch (possibly integrated in wireless bridge): to allow the single MoCA adapter to both create your MoCA network *and* provide the Roamio with a network connection;
(1) MoCA adapter : connected to coax lines and Ethernet switch to create your MoCA network;
(1) MoCA filter (standard, for Comcast PoE);
With the above working, you should be able to connect the Roamio to the Ethernet switch and your Mini should be able to find a working MoCA network on the coax line.

An all-wired solution would be best, but this is the next best thing.


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Old 12-03-2015, 07:41 PM   #26
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This is not that big a deal for me. Probably going to drop tivo once my subscriptions end in march of next year. I get the xfinitity x1 dvr free with my plan and I like that dvr just fine so just can't justify the tivo cost.
Understandable. I can't say that I wouldn't do the same with just a single screen or two; but X1 just isn't workable at our place, with 9 TVs to be connected.

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Old 12-03-2015, 09:30 PM   #27
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Understandable. I can't say that I wouldn't do the same with just a single screen or two; but X1 just isn't workable at our place, with 9 TVs to be connected.
Yeah. We just have two tvs that need cable boxes. We have a third tv for guest bedroom but I just have a roku setup on that.

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Old 12-03-2015, 09:33 PM   #28
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I take it that you can't get Ethernet to your base Roamio and so need 2 MoCA adapters? (If your Roamio can connect via Ethernet, you'd just need the 1 adapter to create the MoCA network to allow the Mini to connect.)

As an alternative, if you *can't* get Ethernet to the Roamio and don't want to buy another MoCA adapter, here's something you could try: use MoCA between the Roamio and Mini -- but bridge this coax/MoCA segment to your router via either wireless or Powerline. Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) between the TiVo devices, which requires the most bandwidth, would be over the solid, wired MoCA connection, but service updates and Internet streaming would come over the wireless/Powerline bridge.

Equipment needed to wirelessly bridge your MoCA segment to your router:
(1) Wireless bridge (available wireless network assumed);
(1) Ethernet switch (possibly integrated in wireless bridge): to allow the single MoCA adapter to both create your MoCA network *and* provide the Roamio with a network connection;
(1) MoCA adapter : connected to coax lines and Ethernet switch to create your MoCA network;
(1) MoCA filter (standard, for Comcast PoE);
With the above working, you should be able to connect the Roamio to the Ethernet switch and your Mini should be able to find a working MoCA network on the coax line.

An all-wired solution would be best, but this is the next best thing.
Sorry. Somewhere information got mixed up. I have two TiVo premieres. No roamio. No mini. I'll still consider another moca device because I have Apple TV and roku and moca connection is always much more stable than wifi. I just don't like paying the moca price.

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Old 12-03-2015, 09:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsa1971 View Post
Sorry. Somewhere information got mixed up. I have two TiVo premieres. No roamio. No mini. I'll still consider another moca device because I have Apple TV and roku and moca connection is always much more stable than wifi. I just don't like paying the moca price.
Yeah, I've obviously confused your situation with someone else's.

Which specific model is each of your Premieres? 2-tuners or 4-tuners?

Do you have Ethernet available at EITHER location where you wish to locate your Premieres?

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Old 12-04-2015, 06:20 AM   #30
dsa1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Yeah, I've obviously confused your situation with someone else's.

Which specific model is each of your Premieres? 2-tuners or 4-tuners?

Do you have Ethernet available at EITHER location where you wish to locate your Premieres?
Nope. No Ethernet. Had to setup wireless access points in client mode. It works. I don't really stream must on tivo's. Mostly use roku from streaming stuff. I have
a tcl roku tv which has dual band wireless and that seems pretty stable.

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