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Old 09-01-2009, 09:01 AM   #121
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Out of curiosity did anyone actually get the "Tivo detected a change in your lineup" message that automatically updates/remaps channels? Or were the masses expected to go through all of this on their own?

I said it before, I can't imagine the non-techies out there were pleased with this HUGE inconvenience.

Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:32 AM   #122
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.............
Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.
I can easily imagine it's at least partly TWC's fault. Although TiVo knows about it and so does Tribune Media Services, I suspect they have to wait for a final approval from TWC. It certainly is ridiculous!

I just checked zap2it.com and the non-rebuild lineup for North Dayton Digital is still the old one.

I wonder what happens for those of us who manually loaded the "rebuild" lineups when they finally do update the non-rebuild version? Do we just eventually notice our guide data isn't updating, or what?
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:51 PM   #123
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What's the problem with using a rebuild lineup???? If it is bad data, why is it available in the first place? So a "rebuild" lineup is just something that is temporarily tossed out there when there are changes and then forgotten about after the changes are finalized and adopted into the non-rebuild lineup?
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:08 PM   #124
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I can easily imagine it's at least partly TWC's fault. Although TiVo knows about it and so does Tribune Media Services, I suspect they have to wait for a final approval from TWC. It certainly is ridiculous!
TiVo doesn't know anything about lineup changes. They get the data straight from Tribune and do not make modifications (except I believe DirecTivo users do get enhanced guide data). There is no notification system that they have that let's them know when cable companies make channel changes.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:09 PM   #125
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What's the problem with using a rebuild lineup???? If it is bad data, why is it available in the first place? So a "rebuild" lineup is just something that is temporarily tossed out there when there are changes and then forgotten about after the changes are finalized and adopted into the non-rebuild lineup?
Generally rebuild lineups are temporary lineups that get merged into the main lineup. You should never have to use a rebuild lineup. If you do, it shows the incompetence of the cable company in working with Tribune on the lineup changes.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:24 PM   #126
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Guided setup will let you choose from a list of available lineups. However, you shouldn't need to change lineups. If you choose one of the rebuild lineups, be prepared for your guide data to stop updating at any time. In general, the best thing you can do is wait and it will fix itself.
Well, I agree we shouldn't need to change lineups but it's been a week now. I'm glad I did it.

It stinks that we're most likely going to have to do the (portion of) Guided Setup again. It took 50 minutes and IIRC you couldn't watch either live or recorded TV during that time.

And apparently we have to keep monitoring the Guide Data or zap2it.com just to know when the "rebuild" data is no longer being updated -- correct? Or will our TiVo generate a message at that time?

As OP have said, this has really got to be a nightmare for owners who are not gadgeteers. Really hard to understand why the process has to be this user unfriendly.

EDIT: rainwater's latest post occured while I was composing this post. I agree: TWC is the likely culprit. For some reason I find it satisfying to blame things on them anyway.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:39 PM   #127
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TiVo doesn't know anything about lineup changes. They get the data straight from Tribune and do not make modifications (except I believe DirecTivo users do get enhanced guide data). There is no notification system that they have that let's them know when cable companies make channel changes.
Not that it's worth arguing about, but I believe both TiVo and TMS have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug).

Doesn't zap2it get their rebuild lineup from TMS? And they've had that on their site since shortly after the switch (possibly even before -- I didn't look then).

TiVo replied to a Guide Data error report I submitted shortly after the change and instructed me on doing a "portion of Guided Setup". In the instructions they said to select the "rebuild" lineup. Thus they knew about it then.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:46 PM   #128
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Generally rebuild lineups are temporary lineups that get merged into the main lineup. You should never have to use a rebuild lineup. If you do, it shows the incompetence of the cable company in working with Tribune on the lineup changes.
Unfortunately, in this Time Warner Cable region (Southwest Region / Greater Cincinnati) we have had to resort to using a rebuild lineup if we want the correct channels... There was a massive reorganization on *August 25th* and it's still not showing up as part of the normal (non-rebuild) lineup.

Thus anyone buying a new Tivo since that date would HAVE to use a rebuild lineup or else the channels wouldn't even be close! Had I not changed them, I would have had to make manual recordings for all of my SPs with the new channel.

I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:56 PM   #129
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........I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.
Yeah, TWC has no incentive to support TiVo's other than what is forced on them by law. They lose potential VOD and PPV sales to TiVo users. I would say TiVo's also put an extra training burden on their install/service function, but I haven't seen any evidence of such training.

I don't think TiVo has any leverage to "adjust their attitude", and also wonder if working that problem would make the cutoff on TiVo's current priority list.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:57 PM   #130
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I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.
think they have their hands full suing AT&T & Verizon right now. LOL

http://www.multichannel.com/article/...fringement.php
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:29 PM   #131
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Out of curiosity did anyone actually get the "Tivo detected a change in your lineup" message that automatically updates/remaps channels? Or were the masses expected to go through all of this on their own?

I said it before, I can't imagine the non-techies out there were pleased with this HUGE inconvenience.

Is it Time Warner's fault or Tivo's? To me, I think this is a Tivo problem since the channels were there... They just had to be added via Guided Set Up again instead of the usual automated process.
I can confirm that the new changes did not go through automatically (yet).
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:14 AM   #132
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I can confirm that the new changes did not go through automatically (yet).
That's not even ridiculous... It's beyond ridiculous... It's RIDONKULOUS!!!! What is going on???????????????/
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:31 AM   #133
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That's not even ridiculous... It's beyond ridiculous... It's RIDONKULOUS!!!! What is going on???????????????/
Going by the book we should call TiVo and complain and perhaps call TWC and complain. Has anyone actually tried that?

I haven't done it myself. Given the availability of a work-around (i.e., the "rebuild" guide data) my pain isn't enough to justify the pain of calling them and most likely getting no satisfaction.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:52 AM   #134
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DLFL, I sent messages to both! I put the links way back on page one...

Tivo: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/...neup_tool.html

TWC: https://www.timewarnercable.com/Cinc...contactus.ashx

I also reported it to Margaret Schmidt, Tivo's VP of User Experience via Twitter! / http://twitter.com/tivodesign She actually responded back to me several times...
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:09 AM   #135
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DLFL, I sent messages to both! I put the links way back on page one...
........

I also reported it to Margaret Schmidt, Tivo's VP of User Experience via Twitter! / http://twitter.com/tivodesign She actually responded back to me several times...
Yeah, but has anyone contacted them after more than a week and complained about the ridiculous delay ? BTW, as you probably have experienced, there is a big delay involved in getting any response from a guide data problem form submission. Has anyone complained at TiVo's technical support phone number?

So did Margaret say anything interesting?
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:13 AM   #136
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Yeah, but has anyone contacted them after more than a week and complained about the ridiculous delay ? BTW, as you probably have experienced, there is a big delay involved in getting any response from a guide data problem form submission. Has anyone complained at TiVo's technical support phone number?

So did Margaret say anything interesting?
Blamed it on TW!

Go to Twitter and do a search for @dolfer (ME) and you can see all of the stuff she said...
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:25 AM   #137
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........Go to Twitter and do a search for @dolfer (ME) and you can see all of the stuff she said...
Do you have to sign up with Twitter to do this? I went to their web site and entered "@dolfer" in the search box, and got no results.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #138
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1.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Was it "Preparing" during a network connection, or the orange screen you see when you reboot and are getting a service update?12:57 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

2.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Correct, because HD channels have different "channel identifiers". Only works when the same channel just changes numbers.12:53 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

3.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer I think it is because TW has *added* a new lineup but not notified Tribune Media that the old one is no longer in use.12:52 PM Aug 27th from web in reply to dolfer

4.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Ouch! When/where did the freezes happen? (You SPs should move with the channels if the channel IDs stayed the same.)11:14 AM Aug 27th from Tweetie in reply to dolfer

5.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Did you try my suggestion of pressing ENTER on the Channel List in Settings? The new lineup should be there (we can see it).1:14 PM Aug 26th from web in reply to dolfer

6.
Happn.in Trendsetter
happn_in_trendr@dolfer You just set the trend for 'time warner' on @happn_in_cinci | http://happn.in/cinci/25aug...9:36 PM Aug 25th from API

7.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Go to TiVoCentral>Messages&Settings>Settings>Channels>ChannelList and press ENTER. Answer the ?s and it should fix the channels.1:58 PM Aug 25th from web in reply to dolfer

8.
TiVo Margret Schmidt
tivodesign@dolfer Let me know your zip code and I will alert our data provider.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #139
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Unfortunately, in this Time Warner Cable region (Southwest Region / Greater Cincinnati) we have had to resort to using a rebuild lineup if we want the correct channels... There was a massive reorganization on *August 25th* and it's still not showing up as part of the normal (non-rebuild) lineup.

Thus anyone buying a new Tivo since that date would HAVE to use a rebuild lineup or else the channels wouldn't even be close! Had I not changed them, I would have had to make manual recordings for all of my SPs with the new channel.

I have always felt that TWC does as little as possible to help out Tivo users. The bare minimum... They could care less that your channels are wrong. They are looking for any excuse whatsoever to get you to use one of their TERRIBLE DVRs. Instead of AT&T and Verizon, I wish Tivo would go after TW. Maybe that would adjust their attitude.
Stupid question: where do you see the rebuild lineup? I'm in Cincy as well & it just dawned on me last night that I would need to go back through the guided setup. After I entered my zip code & waited forever for Tivo to get me a list of lineups, all I saw was "Cincinnati" and "Cincinnati City". Tried "Cincinnati City" but got stuck 'preparing' to connect to Tivo

Ran through the motions again this morning before I left for work but had to leave before Tivo displayed lineup choices. As if the lineup change SNAFU weren't sufficiently annoying, the abnormally slow connection to Tivo makes things even more infuriating.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:50 AM   #140
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Stupid question: where do you see the rebuild lineup? I'm in Cincy as well & it just dawned on me last night that I would need to go back through the guided setup. After I entered my zip code & waited forever for Tivo to get me a list of lineups, all I saw was "Cincinnati" and "Cincinnati City". Tried "Cincinnati City" but got stuck 'preparing' to connect to Tivo

Ran through the motions again this morning before I left for work but had to leave before Tivo displayed lineup choices. As if the lineup change SNAFU weren't sufficiently annoying, the abnormally slow connection to Tivo makes things even more infuriating.
The "official" instructions from TiVo are in this post. If you follow that exactly and it doesn't work...... ????? (Of course don't select Dayton North Rebuild -- select the one for your area. And use your zip code.)

Note "Preparing to connect" may take a long time -- 20 mins in my case. The entire process took 50 mins for me.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:57 AM   #141
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TiVo replied to a Guide Data error report I submitted shortly after the change and instructed me on doing a "portion of Guided Setup". In the instructions they said to select the "rebuild" lineup. Thus they knew about it then.
No. TiVo does not confirm guide changes from users. They forward the requests to Tribune who then works with the local cable company contact to confirm the changes. The issue is with the local TW contact and Tribune.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:13 PM   #142
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Interactive programming, including the interactive guide, is not available on CableCARD-equipped UDCPs - I am not taking sides on the argument, while it is an inconvenience for guide info to be wrong. It does lie in a grey area of responsibility b/c it is provided by a third party.

just my two cents. :/
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:14 PM   #143
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No. TiVo does not confirm guide changes from users. They forward the requests to Tribune who then works with the local cable company contact to confirm the changes. The issue is with the local TW contact and Tribune.
There's no real argument here. What I originally said was that TiVo and TMS "have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug)." Notice the phraseology "known about" (as opposed to "having final confirmation"). They had to know about it in order to instruct me to select the "rebuild" lineup.

Since they knew about it since at least the day it happened, I can only hope TiVo and TMS are being proactive about getting the changes confirmed by TWC. At this point I have to wonder if they are.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:27 PM   #144
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The "official" instructions from TiVo are in this post. If you follow that exactly and it doesn't work...... ????? (Of course don't select Dayton North Rebuild -- select the one for your area. And use your zip code.)
Thanks. I'll give it another shot tonight, but when I entered my zip last night (45230) it only came up with "Time Warner Cincinnati", "Time Warner Cincinnati City", and "Cincinnati Bell" (which was painful to see that 3rd option & not actually have that available to me yet!).

Maybe I'll try some other local zip codes & see if that gives me anything different.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:36 PM   #145
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Thanks. I'll give it another shot tonight, but when I entered my zip last night (45230) it only came up with "Time Warner Cincinnati", "Time Warner Cincinnati City", and "Cincinnati Bell" (which was painful to see that 3rd option & not actually have that available to me yet!).

Maybe I'll try some other local zip codes & see if that gives me anything different.
Would that "third option" be the CinBell FiOptic service recently announced?

I called them and they said it was just beginning to be installed in a few places such as apartment complexes under construction. Guess how long it will take to reach me!
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:21 PM   #146
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Would that "third option" be the CinBell FiOptic service recently announced?
Yep, pretty sure that's what it is.

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I called them and they said it was just beginning to be installed in a few places such as apartment complexes under construction. Guess how long it will take to reach me!
The Enquirer had an article about it several weeks ago when they did their silent launch (or pre-launch or whatever). I think they were starting out with just 500 homes. It will be ages before it reaches me, which is what made it so painful to see it on the menu.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:09 PM   #147
dlfl
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Ah TWC -- Don't you just love it!

Today I submitted my complaint/question about the lineup delay via the TWC email link given in dolfer's earlier post.

I got two identical replies back saying:

"Since we are technical support for cable service, we do not have updates about this. Please contact our local office at 513-469-1112 or 1-800-866-9767 and we will assist you with your request.
Alternatively, you visit our local office...."


Note that the first phone number they give is a Cinci local number. I'm in the Dayton area and they knew that because I had to fill in my address and account number just to be allowed to send the email. (There is a Dayton local TWC number.)

It isn't obvious to me why this isn't a topic for "technical support for cable service", but even if so, why don't they just forward my message to whoever should get it?

Just ranting .... I didn't expect anything better.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:35 PM   #148
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TWC Southwest Ohio subscribers might be interested in this thread I started in the CoffeeHouse forum.
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:31 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
There's no real argument here. What I originally said was that TiVo and TMS "have known about this change since about the time it occured (25 Aug)." Notice the phraseology "known about" (as opposed to "having final confirmation"). They had to know about it in order to instruct me to select the "rebuild" lineup.

Since they knew about it since at least the day it happened, I can only hope TiVo and TMS are being proactive about getting the changes confirmed by TWC. At this point I have to wonder if they are.
TiVo pays Tribune for this. TiVo does not have any control of how Tribune creates/changes lineups. TiVo can't verify and make guide data changes. And when you say TiVo has "known" about it, I don't get what you mean. They probably looked up your zip and saw a rebuild lineup. Ok, I guess they know there is a rebuild lineup, but I'm not sure what you expect them to do about it. The whole situation was messed up by TWC plain and simple.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:09 PM   #150
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TiVo pays Tribune for this. TiVo does not have any control of how Tribune creates/changes lineups. TiVo can't verify and make guide data changes. And when you say TiVo has "known" about it, I don't get what you mean. They probably looked up your zip and saw a rebuild lineup. Ok, I guess they know there is a rebuild lineup, but I'm not sure what you expect them to do about it. The whole situation was messed up by TWC plain and simple.
I find it funny how everyone on here always wants to blame the provider & not TIVo for not being proactive. They got their info from Tribune but they have not updated how does that become the providers fault. I am a TIVO user too but i am not naive enough to think it is always my provider. Just like it was TIVO who knowing about SDV did nothing to update their equipment. Or how like with Tru2way coming down the line they have no plans still to make their boxes tru2way compatible. I am just saying i wish they were more proactive & maybe a lot of our issues would be resolved.
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