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Old 05-13-2009, 10:57 AM   #121
jcaudle
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Tivo isn't perfect But

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Originally Posted by SGR215 View Post
Simple, that's not my problem and I don't care if your prehistoric business model is suffering. I know, that sounds blunt but it's the reality of the situation. Allow me to clarify.

If I were in the business of making and broadcasting TV shows then I'd have to seriously consider how to maximize revenue streams while maintaining customer satisfaction. Some ways of doing so is non-intrusive advertising or, to be more specific, placing ads that also work their way into the plots of shows but not in an intrusive manner. For example, a popular TV personality might drive a BMW M3 and on some occasions we might see him do something entertaining yet subliminally advertise the car at the same time. (I.E. Spin the wheels and do donuts while showing off the engine noise.) I don't know about you, but I love cars and this would certainly make me consider purchasing one if I were in the market for a sports car. This might not provide the same astronomic profits the executives are used to but unfortunately, times change.

Realistically though, I'm still profitable. You just have to figure out how to maximize that profit without annoying me. For example, many people used to pirate TV shows because there was no way to obtain them legally online. Now, many people purchase them on Itunes. Why? Because their business model evolved with the times and provided a reasonable price for the TV show. DRM is still of a concern however, and unless this changes their profit margins will continue to suffer. Luckily they are beginning to realize this.

Broadcasters must become creative with advertising and evolve with the times. In your face "WATCH THIS AD NOW OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!" advertising simply isn't working anymore. Telling me that if I don't watch your ads the end of TV is near won't work either. From a consumer standpoint, and again playing devils advocate, I don't care if they evolve or not. If they annoy me too much, treat me like I'm a thief, etc I'll go elsewhere until they learn their lesson. If they don't then I'll deal with it when that time comes.

Perhaps what broadcasters really need to do is quit whining and actually develop innovating new ideas to profit off their consumers rather than just annoying in-your-face ads? (I.E. Pause menu ads) I know that I've developed several websites with this type of philosophy and while I'm not driving a Ferrari I do make a decent side income from it. Some users even give me money simply because they enjoy the site and I ask nicely. Imagine that. Anyhow, this is strictly my opinion on the situation so take it for what its worth. But contrary to popular belief, there are ways to make money from me.
Tivo isn't perfect. The system 3 Tivo Hd platforms and software are getting elderly. The menus haven't changed much in the last 10 years. But before you gripe too much about Tivo and its ads consider the alterenatives.

Moxi: I don't know a lot about it, but its expensive and not many in service. How long they will be around is uncertain. Cost 800 bucks.

Cable Dvrs: No ads....but lousy search capabilities. small storage capacity, no multiroom viewing. Fees for the cox DVR are over $20 per month. And its the Cisco/Scientific Atlanta POS. So f

Satellite: Packages aren't bad, but can't bundle rates with internet/phone. Tivo isn't yet available in a new HD unit. You have to pay for a box that you lease. If its leased why do you have to pay upfront?

So for now its Tivo. The market may bring new choices but I have invested in equipment and a lifetime and nothing intrigues me enough to spend $800 for a moxi or monthy rental for a crappy cable dvr.

Last edited by jcaudle : 05-13-2009 at 10:58 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:47 PM   #122
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You can tell the growth of ads by looking at older shows from amazon or netflix....If you look at a show from the 1980s typically its 48 minutes without commercials...today an hour show is anywhere from 42-44 minutes. So they have increased the local national ad block by over 25%.
Some years back the NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) threw up their hands and dropped their "guidelines" for commercial limitations in a 30 minute time-block. This essentially gave broadcasters permission to hurl as many commercials as they could before viewers would show up on their doorstep with torches and pitchforks.
Well - instead of torches and pitchforks they showed up with TIVO! Broadcasters are crying foul - but appear pretty helpless to stop the tide. TIVO has always tried to play nice (unlike replay which put in the 30 second skip which drew the ire of the networks and movie studios who threatened to take 'em down). For the most part now the networks and studios are powerless to stop the trend and TIVO seems justified to make moves that would likely have encouraged litigation just a few years back. Giving consumers a way to negate the content providers revenue stream and insert their own would most certainly have brought down a battery of lawyers on TIVO - but now it is being justified by a complacent proletariat and a flailing
corporation wanting to appear as though they are moving toward solvency. Ads on TIVO will not bring TIVO out of the red - the perception that ads will drive significant revenue however, will generate new investment and funding sources.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:10 PM   #123
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Ads on TIVO will not bring TIVO out of the red - the perception that ads will drive significant revenue however, will generate new investment and funding sources.
I will say again that it is selling the safiware behind the interactive ad technology that is the long term profit seen by TiVo inc. It is not the ad views on a couple million boxes.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:45 PM   #124
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Just to add my $.02 to this discussion...

Tivo needs to find ways to be profitable, otherwise the company will go out of business. When was the last time they actually had a quarter in the Black instead of the Red? While the ads are a mild nuisance, I would prefer to see Tivo do what they need to do to stay in business as a company, and that means finding more ways to be profitable - so I am willing to let this slide. How would we all feel if they went out of business and we were stuck with the crappy cable company DVR's?
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:58 PM   #125
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Tivo needs to find ways to be profitable, otherwise the company will go out of business.
Well, those aren't the only two choices. The third choice is that they'll just sell their software for use on service provider-provided DVRs.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:34 PM   #126
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Product placement is actually fairly easy and Lost is no exception; it just takes work. Like others have stated it has been done and could easily continue. For example, that generic chocolate bar could easily have been a snickers bar. Those graham crackers could have easily been Teddy Grahams. The list goes on. Product placement involves creativity. Creativity involves actual work rather then just cutting to a commercial that yells "I'M A CELEBRITY AND REALLY COOL. I DRINK COKE!"

Jcaudle, I definitely agree. Tivo is by far the best DVR on the market right now even despite the fact it does have it's negatives. (They are small negatives too) You couldn't pay me enough to switch to an alternative right now. I don't see the Tivo DVR's becoming obsolete anytime soon and I'm already eagerly awaiting info on the series 4.

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When others post in a hysterical and childish manner then people tend to respect them less. And things go down hill from there.
I definitely agree there. I've seen some posts that actually provide very little useful input and usually resort in threatening a class action lawsuit, cursing, or some other overly dramatic post.

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Old 05-13-2009, 07:41 PM   #127
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When was the last time they actually had a quarter in the Black instead of the Red?
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....cle&id=1261660
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:25 AM   #128
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Product placement is actually fairly easy and Lost is no exception; it just takes work.
I don't mind when American Idol has an AT&T store in every hometown coming cameo or that the Idols do a ford commercial that is actually part of the show, cause it is a singing show - it does not change the real content of the show much.

Now when the store on Reaper becomes a Best Buy and they start to dictate acceptable on screen behavior for in store shots - then it no longer is a show but a best buy ad. Product placement will always be around (mfg. logo on back of PC screens - certain cars used - certain phones used - but for most of them then the camera work has to be such that a good shot of the product is included - not that a good shot the director wanted is exclusive of that but you can bet that creative compromise will be part of majority of product placement.

Subtle is what ads are not and product placement that is subtle is just not what an advertiser is looking for for the main message. Ads are not going away.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:50 AM   #129
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Just to add my $.02 to this discussion...

Tivo needs to find ways to be profitable, otherwise the company will go out of business. When was the last time they actually had a quarter in the Black instead of the Red? While the ads are a mild nuisance, I would prefer to see Tivo do what they need to do to stay in business as a company, and that means finding more ways to be profitable - so I am willing to let this slide. How would we all feel if they went out of business and we were stuck with the crappy cable company DVR's?
Not sure how "locked" the box is - but if TIVO folds it will take little time for a company to offer a service compatible with TIVO.
Look - all I'm saying is that TIVO needs to back off on the ads some. Less in-your-face. The pause ads crossed the line for me - perhaps not for others. That line is probably fairly thick and I just want TIVO to know where I stand: Ads on the pause point were it. It seems there are others who feel the same way I do, others still who still have some tolerance in their heart. Thee are even some for whom TIVO had already crossed the line. As TIVO moves the bar we need to provide them feedback.
I am not selling my TIVO - but at this point, when it comes time to renew I will be looking at other offerings whereas before I would not have. Plain and simple - they've opened the door to competitors for me - and if that doesn't concern them then I am apparently not part of their target demographic.

Last edited by destek : 05-14-2009 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:18 PM   #130
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Not sure how "locked" the box is - but if TIVO folds it will take little time for a company to offer a service compatible with TIVO.
Look - all I'm saying is that TIVO needs to back off on the ads some. Less in-your-face....
I think what you meant to say is "you want Tivo to back off on the ads some". Many people thinks Tivo needs to do many different things, but Tivo the company only needs to do the things that it thinks it needs to survive. The fact that they are still around even with the competition of cable and sat DVR's, and deathwatchers hovering over their head for several years now, and staying close to profitability, I would think they know what they are doing pretty well. What other company do you see that can offer a service compatible with Tivo in little time? Comcast? Dish? DirecTV? They've all spent years trying to copy Tivo, and some of them still are failing miserably. A small and innovative company, maybe Moxi? How do you see them succeed and survive against the cable and sat giants, if Tivo couldn't? If it's so easy for someone new to come on the scene and do better, why hasn't that someone done it already?
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:20 PM   #131
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Not sure how "locked" the box is - but if TIVO folds it will take little time for a company to offer a service compatible with TIVO.
Look - all I'm saying is that TIVO needs to back off on the ads some. Less in-your-face. The pause ads crossed the line for me - perhaps not for others. That line is probably fairly thick and I just want TIVO to know where I stand: Ads on the pause point were it. It seems there are others who feel the same way I do, others still who still have some tolerance in their heart. Thee are even some for whom TIVO had already crossed the line. As TIVO moves the bar we need to provide them feedback.
I am not selling my TIVO - but at this point, when it comes time to renew I will be looking at other offerings whereas before I would not have. Plain and simple - they've opened the door to competitors for me - and if that doesn't concern them then I am apparently not part of their target demographic.
That’s a very well put post.
But I think you are part of their demographic, just as most everyone here is, and even the people that the line was already crossed and they left.

Basically they need to walk a tight rope. Trying to figure out what new attempt might make them a pile of money without chasing away more revenue from subs.

It’s not like they sit in a conference room and say “hey I know this new ad delivery method is going to make destek leave- but screw him he’s not our target demo”. I think they probably sit in a conference room with multiple options and they debate them and try to decide which one’s piss people off the most. And also which ones might get advertisers to spend the most. Then they pick which one that will get the most ad dollars relative to the number of subs that they believe will leave over it. Seems over time they have moved incrementally towards things that anyone could tell are going to piss more and more people off. But they probably keep hoping that “this one is the one that the advertisers really buy into- so hopefully the people we lose over this increment will be worth it”. If all they cared about was making the most money on ads then years ago (these kinds of threads are at least as old as 2001)- then they would just be putting commercials up that run before playback that you can’t skip like hulu does. That would make them the most money from ads as they are are sure to be noticed- but clearly Tivo realizes that they want to piss off the least amount of subs possible. And that’s why we have this drip by drip, drop by drop, torture of the next more invasive ad every 6 months or whatever. Hopefully one of them sticks with the ad buyers and this stops before we get to hulu type ads and everyone leaves.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:37 PM   #132
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Honestly, I think Tivo is just trying to rape the customers quick before they all defect to Windows 7 HTPC's without ads. They see the writing on the wall.
I guess I would do the same if I owned Tivo... so I am calming down and just jumping ship... Tivo never meant much to me, infact, they usually screwed up what I liked about Tivo.. For it was Pytivo, etc. that I loved. And I can get that stuff easily from Windows 7 and a HDMI connection without the constant barage of issues and ads that come with Tivo. Just counting the days at this point. Pytivo, you will be missed.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:53 PM   #133
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Ok - I was midly annoyed with the new "see more about <this show>" when paused - but there are now ADS in that space as well.
I have been very happy with TIVO - ecstatic actually - but this has just gone too far for me now. I was willing to put up with it, even though I pay for the service, but this has crossed my line. It feels like TIVO feels empowered to put ads whereever, whenever they like on my box because I buy their service.
OK - so they still aren't making money. Do they think that by abandoning thier once-elegant user interface they will turn a profit? Perhaps they need to do some GM-style downsizing and pursue a business model for a company that isn't the size of southern Europe. Believe me, someone could figure out how to run that company on about 500 employees out of an office suite in Dayton, Ohio. Tivo is going to become known as an ad-box and that officially makes me a former-fan.
Sorry Tivo, you had me there for a long time - but you've blown it. You don't improve your business by annoying your customers!

Des
Right there with ya. That's why I havent renewed my subscription to xbox live and traded in my xbox 360 and got a ps3. That is also why I now have a moxi box in my living room and when I get one for the bedroom my last tivo will be gone.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:01 AM   #134
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Not sure how "locked" the box is - but if TIVO folds it will take little time for a company to offer a service compatible with TIVO.
If that were true, other companies would be offering "service comparable" with TiVo now.

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Look - all I'm saying is that TIVO needs to back off on the ads some.
The reality, though, is that you want them to back off on the ads some. There is a big difference. I'm not sure if you're doing it deliberately, or just carelessly, but presenting your personal preference as an imperative isn't appropriate.

People always complain online. And their complaints often prompt others to add to the spiraling circle of an online bitch-fest. Keep in mind that it doesn't mean much. Reality trumps bitch-fest. What is important is that readers do not get the impression that what the bitch-ers are bitching about is actually something that they themselves should come to expect. We should be very clear about what is actually promised, and therefore people should expect, and what people personally want to see.

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As TIVO moves the bar we need to provide them feedback.
Here you go:

http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/2web519.htm

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I am not selling my TIVO - but at this point, when it comes time to renew I will be looking at other offerings whereas before I would not have.
Good luck with that. Again, sticking with the reality, the other options are either a lot more expensive, or a lot more complicated, or a lot less feature-packed. But again, good luck with that.

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Plain and simple - they've opened the door to competitors for me - and if that doesn't concern them then I am apparently not part of their target demographic.
Until you actually choose a competitor, this statement of yours is utterly ridiculous. The reality is that TiVo knows that their competition is either (as above) too expensive, too complicated, or a lot less feature-packed.

Everyone was stringing their hopes on a $250 Moxi HD with no subscription... remember that patter online, before the Moxi came out? Hahaha... gosh were those people wrong! And their expectations in that regard stemmed from, again, mistaking their personal desire with reality. No, the Moxi HD is more expensive than the TiVo. Do you want to know the price of doing away with those ads at this time? It is at least $100, but even that's conservative, because the Moxi is new, and as far as we know, they're losing money worse than TiVo right now.

To be honest, the only close competitor there is to TiVo right now is the cable company provided DVRs. They had the advantage of no up-front fees, no hidden fees (i.e., for CableCARD), a replacement plan in case of failure, etc. And for the first two or three years, they're actually less expensive. However, I would not be surprised to see ads invade that space soon, as well. But switch back to the cable company DVR if you're so inclined. As likely as not, one day, it'll be running TiVo software, so TiVo would be getting its money anyway, and for the part of their company that is probably best able to be profitable (IMHO).
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:59 AM   #135
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Honestly, I think Tivo is just trying to rape the customers quick before they all defect to Windows 7 HTPC's without ads. They see the writing on the wall.
you have gone way past meaningless with such nonsense - welcome to my ignore list
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:50 AM   #136
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you have gone way past meaningless with such nonsense - welcome to my ignore list
The ignore list is a nice feature, huh?
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:45 AM   #137
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Until you actually choose a competitor, this statement of yours is utterly ridiculous.
You made some good points and I can take a spanking when deserved - but that one statement quoted above is silly. If I, as a consumer, announce to the world that I am willing to now look at competing products, whereas before I was not, that is a valid and worrisome statement. It tells competitors there's an opportunity to grow their market. Investors in TIVO competitors want to hear that, investors in TIVO do not.
Granted - any new product may not be good enough and when I look through the newly opened door I may see nothing but junk, but what if somebody does actually come up with a product I buy? Even if they lie to me and I wind up with junk (like my new cell phone that looked so cool in the store) - TIVO has still lost another sub and has certainly lost face in their community.
But as has been correctly pointed out - it is likely face they calculated on losing as they seek their level.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:31 AM   #138
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And I can get that stuff easily from Windows 7.....
Bwaahahahahaaha, clearly you've never spent any real time putting up with a media center abomination. While Tivo's got their issues, the unit and it's interface have been rock-solid reliable for it's main purpose.... watching television. The various media center hacks (windows, myth, etc) are a wreck of too many features and not enough core competency. While it's true the masses will put up with whatever crap is handed to them "for free" that doesn't make the solutions worth tolerating. Fortunately Tivo delivers that.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:33 AM   #139
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Tivo isn't perfect. The system 3 Tivo Hd platforms and software are getting elderly. The menus haven't changed much in the last 10 years. But before you gripe too much about Tivo and its ads consider the alterenatives.

Moxi: I don't know a lot about it, but its expensive and not many in service. How long they will be around is uncertain. Cost 800 bucks.

Cable Dvrs: No ads....but lousy search capabilities. small storage capacity, no multiroom viewing. Fees for the cox DVR are over $20 per month. And its the Cisco/Scientific Atlanta POS. So f

Satellite: Packages aren't bad, but can't bundle rates with internet/phone. Tivo isn't yet available in a new HD unit. You have to pay for a box that you lease. If its leased why do you have to pay upfront?

So for now its Tivo. The market may bring new choices but I have invested in equipment and a lifetime and nothing intrigues me enough to spend $800 for a moxi or monthy rental for a crappy cable dvr.
Excellent summary.
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:01 AM   #140
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You made some good points and I can take a spanking when deserved - but that one statement quoted above is silly. If I, as a consumer, announce to the world that I am willing to now look at competing products, whereas before I was not, that is a valid and worrisome statement.
No, not really, because it is not credible. In other words, there is no proof that you're being genuine. Rather, you could be saying that because you're frustrated and angry. That's actually the most likely situation, and so the safest assumption.

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It tells competitors there's an opportunity to grow their market.
The competitors also know that such statements are rarely if ever credible. That's why the two most well-situated companies who could be competitors actually, instead of offering a competing problem, refuse to offer the products they have to the general public in the United States. Mass-market consumers in the US cause an incredibly high amount of cost to support products and service, so much so that even as ready-competitors, they have no interest in being such. It will take a lot more than some silly chatter by the frustrated and angry consumers of the sucker -- uh -- other company that is offering products to the general public to get high quality companies to actually consider entering the market. The object isn't to attract away someone else's refuse -- uh -- problems, but rather to make money, and since TiVo isn't consistently profitable, there is no reason to think that there is money to be made serving TiVo's cheap -- uh -- spend-thrift customers.
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:20 AM   #141
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If all these people are soo happy with tivos ads then why are all these happy people here arguing with those people who are angry with the ads? It does not make sense to me that people would come into this thread just to argue and antagonize the original poster, unless your just tivo fans and cant handle other peoples rights to free speech. I have watched these comments for months and it seems that any time a new post comes up from a new member about the ads then the same minority of people jump on them and try to make them go away. The fact that there are many other dvr choices out there is proof that tivo is loosing there market share so obviously not everyone is happy with tivo. So let them complain and if enough people do then tivo will here them and make a better product.
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:17 AM   #142
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Tivo isn't perfect. The system 3 Tivo Hd platforms and software are getting elderly. The menus haven't changed much in the last 10 years. But before you gripe too much about Tivo and its ads consider the alterenatives.

Cable Dvrs: No ads....but lousy search capabilities. small storage capacity, no multiroom viewing. Fees for the cox DVR are over $20 per month. And its the Cisco/Scientific Atlanta POS.
I have to say, I was helping my sister with her Comcast DVR, and I was floored at how pervasive the ads were. In their tiny guide, you scroll down to see more channels and as you scroll down you actually select the ad at the bottom of the screen!

For any complaints I may have had about the new pause screen ads, that single cable offense of the default action in the guide of all things, is far far worse.

Diane
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:48 AM   #143
janry
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If all these people are soo happy with tivos ads then why are all these happy people here arguing with those people who are angry with the ads? It does not make sense to me that people would come into this thread just to argue and antagonize the original poster, unless your just tivo fans and cant handle other peoples rights to free speech. I have watched these comments for months and it seems that any time a new post comes up from a new member about the ads then the same minority of people jump on them and try to make them go away. The fact that there are many other dvr choices out there is proof that tivo is loosing there market share so obviously not everyone is happy with tivo. So let them complain and if enough people do then tivo will here them and make a better product.

I'm glad you joined forum and finally made your first post.

Let me explain it the way I see it. It's a non isssue. So, why get so upset about it. It's horrible people want to do nothing but gripe about such a non issue. Please don't get so worked up about it. It's nothing. It isn't really bothering anyone.

It's like people that can't control their anger when driving. Just chill, and enjoy the ride.

As you said, you've been lurking for months. How about other potential people who want a good DVR who are lurking here trying to decide. They see all the folks griping about a non issue and they begin to think TiVo isn't a good choice, when it really is not only a good choice, but the best choice.

So, just chill. Enjoy your DVR. Hit the clear button after pause, or program your Harmony remote to handle it for you. It's just not a real issue.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:21 AM   #144
bicker
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Originally Posted by manu View Post
If all these people are soo happy with tivos ads then why are all these happy people here arguing with those people who are angry with the ads? It does not make sense to me that people would come into this thread just to argue and antagonize the original poster, unless your just tivo fans and cant handle other peoples rights to free speech.
That's ridiculous, mostly because your implication, itself, that people shouldn't object to the OP's message, would indicate that you "can't handle other people's right to free speech". Reasonable people disagree about things: Get used to it; it is going to be a fundamental aspect of practically everything for the rest of your life.

In this context, folks objecting to the OP has several perspectives that they are sharing: Most notably is the vacuous nature of the assertions that it is reasonable to expect better. Given that no one is providing better, it is as likely as not that what we are offered is the best we can expect. That doesn't mean we cannot desire better, nor does it mean we cannot hope for better, but it does mean that it is unreasonable to expect better. Most importantly, readers should be able to appreciate the reality, rather than just being exposed to wishful thinking, and perhaps inadvertently being led to unreasonable expectations as a result. We're supposed to be here to help each other -- to help each other achieve the most satisfaction practicable -- we are not here to foster each others' dissatisfaction. How horrible a place this would be if the point and purpose was to make everyone disappointed.

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I have watched these comments for months and it seems that any time a new post comes up from a new member about the ads then the same minority of people jump on them and try to make them go away.
Bull. People are simply not allowing indefensible assertions and pot-stirring to have an unrebutted soap-box. If you want an unrebutted soap-box, post to a blog or to your own Facebook page. If you post here, expect discussion, meaning comments both in favor of what you post and opposed to what you post -- preferably in equal measure, in all cases.

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The fact that there are many other dvr choices out there
This one statement proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:23 AM   #145
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I'm glad you joined forum and finally made your first post.
LOL!

Yeah, just joined...
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:27 AM   #146
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No, not really, because it is not credible. In other words, there is no proof that you're being genuine. Rather, you could be saying that because you're frustrated and angry. That's actually the most likely situation, and so the safest assumption.
Bicker - now you're sounding like a TIVO shill. Your statement is assumptive as well and has no more credibility then mine. Why would I come to this forum if I were not being genuine? Since I've been a member (with mostly positive things to say about TIVO) since 2001 it's highly unlikely I have any desire to hurt TIVO. Since when is frustration and anger at how a company uses its customers not credible? Frankly it's more likely you have as much of an agenda here as I - but I'm being clear while yours is clearly obtuse.

I'm fine with discussion - but to assert that I am not genuine, or that frustration is not a valid consideration with a product is inane.

Last edited by destek : 05-16-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:55 AM   #147
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Bicker - now you're sounding like a TIVO shill. Your statement is assumptive as well and has no more credibility then mine. Why would I come to this forum if I were not being genuine? Since I've been a member (with mostly positive things to say about TIVO) since 2001 it's highly unlikely I have any desire to hurt TIVO. Since when is frustration and anger at how a company uses its customers not credible? Frankly it's more likely you have as much of an agenda here as I - but I'm being clear while yours is clearly obtuse.

I'm fine with discussion - but to assert that I am not genuine, or that frustration is not a valid consideration with a product is inane.
I think bicker means that you're not really willing to put your money where your mouth is - that is, you're note being truthful when you say you're willing to drop TiVo over these ads.

I don't know if that's true, but like I said in another post on this topic, it's what you have to do if you really want to make a difference. Money talks.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:02 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by janry View Post

As you said, you've been lurking for months. How about other potential people who want a good DVR who are lurking here trying to decide. They see all the folks griping about a non issue and they begin to think TiVo isn't a good choice, when it really is not only a good choice, but the best choice.
I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but as someone who has been lurking around these forums for a while trying to decide whether to purchase a Tivo, I've found the information about ads (if not the argument) very enlightening.

After much thought, I just had my new Tivo HD hooked up and so far, I'm extremely happy.
But...
Had I not been forewarned about the ads in the Tivo interface, I would have been extremely shocked and probably very disappointed with my purchase.

Many of you have a long history with Tivo and have seen changes that newbies like me have no concept of, but you've also been looking at the Tivo interface every day for a long time. For a user like me, coming from an ad-free cable company DVR, even that ad at the bottom of Tivo Central is surprising.

I'm not a fan of arguing for argument's sake, but there is something to be said for having reasonably lowered expectations.

This forum, and even this topic has been instrumental in my decision-making process - and I decided to go with a Tivo.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:30 AM   #149
janry
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Welcome to TiVo Kika. Did it help you to have umpteen threads on the same subject with people making meaningly threats to dump their TiVos in the dumpster?

The discussion is one thing. To come in here and make no meaningful posts, just empty threats is hardly enlightening, IMHO. YMMV.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:25 PM   #150
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The problem is how tivo does the ads. not the ads itself. The pause ads, including the time progress bar are very annoying, and people like bicker , don't understand the straw principle eventually you are going to break the customer.
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