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Old 05-12-2009, 01:37 PM   #31
bschuler2007
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Moxi being 'round long enough? Have u seen used TivoHD prices on Ebay lately? Talk about dumping products..Sheesh! I think cheap media extenders for every room and expensive head units w/o subscriptions and ads are the way to go. Sorry Tivo.. but Moxi, et al, have ya beat. The ads are just TOO INTRUSIVE!

Overall, I think Tivo will be bought by Microsoft or Sony to add into the next gen PS3 or Xbox360. The lure of TV + pay per view/use of Movies, Games, Music, etc.. on one box is just way too high. If you offer that and still need advertising to make money.. shame on you!

Tivo at this point is patents.. nothing more.

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Old 05-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by gonzotek View Post
Yeah, when I want to know more about a program, the first thing I'd think to do, with a tivo, is use the Info button on the remote, not the pause button.
if I want to know about that episode yes I use info button

if I want to find out what else we saw that guest star in and can not put our finger on it - then pause more info about - takes us to that added information and more very easily. I make good use of more about.

Now I am under no illusions it was put there as they were figuring out other ways to show us ads - but I must say it is still fairly unobtrusive to me. I have always hit clear if I pause to see the screen and actually learned that a simple FF right will do it with slightly less finger exertion.

Will Moxi rise up base on "no ads" - I doubt it.
Will TiVo fall based on ads - again I doubt it. Unless people start ditching subs then ads are revenue for TiVo and so far I have not seen evidence of significant subs lost to the ads in the interface.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by bschuler2007 View Post
I think cheap media extenders for every room and expensive head units w/o subscriptions and ads are the way to go.
you really think ads are the biggest component of that or do you think the 700$ a box if you go lifetime is the reason people look into cheaper things like media extenders?


PS - xbox 360 and things like AppleTV have figured out how to sell specific episodes/movies as downloads - why on earth would they spend money on a way for people to record them without paying?
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:08 PM   #34
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What are examples of other home entertainment or computing devices that have advertising as part of the user interface? .
Pop-up ads, banners on websites, junk mail, spam, adware...
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:11 PM   #35
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Moxi being 'round long enough? Have u seen used TivoHD prices on Ebay lately? Talk about dumping products..Sheesh! I think cheap media extenders for every room and expensive head units w/o subscriptions and ads are the way to go. Sorry Tivo.. but Moxi, et al, have ya beat. The ads are just TOO INTRUSIVE!
If your the Moxi man no need for you to be here either, you can follow the OP outta here.
Watch the door on your way out!
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:13 PM   #36
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Amazing how many people here get their knickers in a twist when someone mentions Moxi.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:17 PM   #37
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agree, try cable dvr for a year and then tell me how much Tivo sucks.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
if I want to find out what else we saw that guest star in and can not put our finger on it - then pause more info about - takes us to that added information and more very easily. I make good use of more about.
But don't you think that it would be more intuitively placed as a sub menu of the info screen instead of just being some random button that pops up when you push pause?

If it was truly meant to be a feature then the current placement of the "more info" button is really bad UI design. However we all know that it was never intended to be a real feature. It's simply a placeholder for an ad. The only reason they put the "more info" button there at all is so that it wouldn't look so jarring and out of place when there was actually an ad available. (since advertisers come and go and there isn't always an ad to put there)

The problem with these ads is that they are a very slippery slope. I mean what's to stop them from replacing that one line ad under the "more info" button with a full screen graphic advertisement? Or putting a banner ad at the top/bottom of every screen? Just look at the history. The TiVo Central ad started as a one line ad with a simple star next to it. Now it's capable of holding a graphical banner at least twice the size of a line of text. And the "thumbs up for more..." feature, which they originally designed to make it easier to schedule new shows, has now morphed into something capable of displaying a nearly full screen graphic ad over playing video. (ala Celebrity Apprentice)

I understand that they need to make money, but it's just getting to be a bit too much.

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Old 05-12-2009, 02:30 PM   #39
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Now I am under no illusions it was put there as they were figuring out other ways to show us ads - but I must say it is still fairly unobtrusive to me.
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But don't you think that it would be more intuitively placed as a sub menu of the info screen instead of just being some random button that pops up when you push pause?

If it was truly meant to be a feature then the current placement of the "more info" button is really bad UI design. However we all know that it was never intended to be a real feature. It's simply a placeholder for an ad.
I already agree as to why they put it there

it could be a submenu under info screen, but those submenus tend to be forgotten and not used. I actually think it is better UI design to have "more about" in a place people will see it and use it. The more about does stay even if an ad is present for the show.

Now of course they could drop the ads on the pause and I would be just fine with that, never argued that I wanted ads on pause - just that for me they do not really get in the way.


PS - you forgot the most important part of the ad history - way back they tried an interstitial ad that would indeed cover the full screen before you got to now playing, I think, and you had to hit a button to move on.
The hue and cry was far greater over that and it was dropped never to be seen again. TiVo is well aware they are moving along a fine line between user apathy to do anything real about it and significant sub loss. They are more aware then we of the slippery footing they have right now.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
if I want to know about that episode yes I use info button

if I want to find out what else we saw that guest star in and can not put our finger on it - then pause more info about - takes us to that added information and more very easily. I make good use of more about.

Now I am under no illusions it was put there as they were figuring out other ways to show us ads - but I must say it is still fairly unobtrusive to me. I have always hit clear if I pause to see the screen and actually learned that a simple FF right will do it with slightly less finger exertion.

Will Moxi rise up base on "no ads" - I doubt it.
Will TiVo fall based on ads - again I doubt it. Unless people start ditching subs then ads are revenue for TiVo and so far I have not seen evidence of significant subs lost to the ads in the interface.
My point was (and is) that I really don't see how Pause is an intuitive button to use to get info, especially when the remotes feature an Info button. I wasn't commenting on the advertising or on the usefulness of the "More about" feature. It is, at least occasionally, useful. And ads are ads, I can't say anything there that hasn't been repeated ad nauseum in the forums already. But neither of those facts change the lack of intuition I have for using the Pause button for the function of finding out something about a program.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:39 PM   #41
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Where are you going to go? Back to a cable box? Drop 800 clams for a MOXI when you have a perfectly good working TiVo? Your not going anywhere!
Yeah, he's not going anywhere.
It took him six months to even notice these ads, so it can't be that bad.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:48 PM   #42
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Yeah, he's not going anywhere.
It took him six months to even notice these ads, so it can't be that bad.
The S2 TiVos have had these ads for a while now, but the S3 TiVos only just recently got them. In fact the software might actually still be in the process of rolling out, so he may have just got the software today for all we know.

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Old 05-12-2009, 02:59 PM   #43
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The worst part of all this advertising, including TiVo, is that we all pay for it.
How much more would we pay if there weren't ads?
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #44
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I have always been a proponent of simply ignoring the ads on TiVo, but the new pop-up on pause is a little too "in your face" for me. They do cross the line for me, but I don't plan on canceling TiVo service over it, as there is no viable alternative.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #45
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My point was (and is) that I really don't see how Pause is an intuitive button to use to get info, especially when the remotes feature an Info button.
the info button may be intuitive but I am reasonably certain the pause button will have more people actually use "more about" (espeically when you consider the vast majority of users who do not read this forum) and since that will tie into the new TiVo search - then the number of people using the "more about" is the goal versus where it should intuitively be placed.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #46
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How much more would we pay if there weren't ads?
Probably not much more. TiVo still hasn't developed a ad system that is very effective yet. This is why you see ads thrown throughout the UI. Even the CEO has mentioned several times that they haven't found the one big solution. They are just throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:51 PM   #47
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At one time in my life I had a phonograph, an eight track player, a cassette player , a cd player , a beta max player, a VHS player, an Atari, a nintendo, a nintendo 64, a commodore computer, a replay TV, and on and on it goes.
Some day all of us and yes even you die hard tivo fans on this site will be able to say I used to have a tivo. Tivo is a software pioneer and a seller of guide data and now they want to be a content provider. The only problem is that they want to sell content that is commercials. That is the reason most people went with tivo in the first place to avoid those annoying ads. Tivo should stick with selling software and guide data and leave the content and commercials to the TV studios. I have purchased a moxi HD dvr and I am very satisfied with it at this time I also have a cox SA8300 dvr and a series 3 tivo and a series 2 tivo. (I paid $800.00 for my series 3 and that's the same price for the Moxi.) I talked with tivo about why I was changing and was put in touch with a tivo rep who says she cares about customer feedback so all complaints should go to her Jessica --jloebig@tivo.com.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:55 PM   #48
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Even though advertising may be prevalent in every day life, it doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me when Tivo starts filling up my screen with it. I bought a Tivo to get away from this crap (skipping commercials).

- Chris
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:00 PM   #49
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That is the reason most people went with tivo in the first place to avoid those annoying ads.
I went with Tivo because I wanted to easily record programming that I could watch when I wanted to watch it. How do you know why most people went with Tivo? Did you ask them? You didn't ask me.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:31 PM   #50
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the info button may be intuitive but I am reasonably certain the pause button will have more people actually use "more about" (espeically when you consider the vast majority of users who do not read this forum) and since that will tie into the new TiVo search - then the number of people using the "more about" is the goal versus where it should intuitively be placed.
I don't get that. You admit that "more about" is not intuitively placed, but you say that it's justified by giving greater exposure to Tivo Search. How does usage of Tivo Search directly benefit Tivo?

The only technical motivation I can think of for having "more about" on pause is because "more about" takes you away from the program you are watching. The "Info" panel is overlaid on top of the current program while it plays, but "more about" can not be. However I would still argue that "more about" during pause is not intuitive and is poor UI design. Putting it as an option under Info is clearly more intuitive. The current program could be automatically paused if the "more about" option was selected.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:47 PM   #51
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I went with Tivo because I wanted to easily record programming that I could watch when I wanted to watch it. How do you know why most people went with Tivo? Did you ask them? You didn't ask me.
I agree. The main reason for having a DVR for me is to not worry about if I would miss my favorite shows. Saving time while viewing the shows are the second.

Hong.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:14 PM   #52
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I went with Tivo because I wanted to easily record programming that I could watch when I wanted to watch it. How do you know why most people went with Tivo? Did you ask them? You didn't ask me.
I had a replay tv when it first came out and replay tv and tivos first ads were focused on skipping adds!
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:35 PM   #53
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We all have different reasons why we bought TiVo in the first place. In my case I was so PO'd at trying to watch a Clint Eastwood movie back in 2001 I turned the TV off and went out, to Best Buy IIRC, and bought one within the hour. The station ran the opening credits then went to a batch of commercials, ran a little of the movie then went back to more commercials at 10 after the hour, again at 20 after the hour, and again at 30 minutes after. Can't recall if it was a local Dallas station or a cable one but I had never seen anything like that beforehand.

So yes, for me, avoiding the over commercialization was the initial reason. I soon learned to love the season passes, wishlist feature, etc.

Nowadays I find myself using my TiVos less and less, thanks to you guys teaching me about torrents. (A year ago I thought that only meant a lot of rain. )

I am seriously considering purchasing the eyeTV to use with my Macbook. It's not perfect and not for everyone but I think it and torrents will suffice for my personal viewing habits.

I wish TiVo would give me the option of no ads for say, 10 bucks a month more as I would gladly pay it. But they just don't seem interested in giving us a choice.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #54
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See this is where lack of competition hurts consumers.
And how do we get more competition? Increased profit motive. In other words, more people willing to pay more.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:44 PM   #55
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tivo isnt going to be top dog too much longer.
Easy to claim, but there is no foundation for your ridiculous pronouncement.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:48 PM   #56
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It's a system that I don't think is particularly good for actually selling products though
I suppose what's more important is whether it is a good way for paying for television programs. Or would you prefer to have all broadcast television programs moved to Pay-per-View, perhaps at $1 per episode.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #57
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Amazing how many people here get their knickers in a twist when someone mentions Moxi.

Right and there will be more added soon. Samsung is do out soon, and Sony usually follows samsung , so Tivo better get there house in order.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:23 PM   #58
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The advertisement on pause is easy to eliminate if you've got a universal remote like a Harmony. You simply create a pause-clear macro (Harmony calls them sequences) and stick it on the pause button. You'll never see the pause ad again.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:33 PM   #59
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I had a replay tv when it first came out and replay tv and tivos first ads were focused on skipping adds!
Actually, they were focused on skipping televised comercials. TiVo does not force you to click on any of the ad banners.
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:46 PM   #60
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Many of us (some of us? a few of us?) agree that ads are necessary evil to improve Tivo's bottom line and help them stay in business. The real arguement I see people complaining about where ads show up. It's as if the ads are hacked into a pre-existing UI, and the result is unsightly and obtrusive.

So let's assume Tivo is developing a new, high def user interface for the Series 4 (all pure speculation). Assuming this interface will include ads, where should they show up so as to be visible enough to attract advertisers, but not so in-your-face that the viewers complain?
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