WD DVR Expander installation hangup

[maartsen]

I have recently switched from DirecTV to Comcast, and bought the Tivo HD. After receiving a WD DVR Expander from Newegg, I ran into a couple of problems during installation.

The original install, done by the book, led to the Tivo eventually hanging when, after a successful install, I attempted to go to "Live TV" (the unit had upgraded to release 11.0xxx after initial install, before I got the Expander). During the install, after successfully adding the Expander, according to the System status report, when I went to check in "Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Remote, CableCARD & Devices -> External Storage" what that reported, an "External Storage Device detected" routine started, even though the Expander had already installed, and I could "see" the extra storage.

What I think happened, and wanted to share, is that during the first install I did not wait for the Tivo to detect the Expander, but immediately went to "External Storage", and started the install process from there. I realized that I recognized this behaviour from my days as a lab rat, when multi-threading (not multi-tasking!) operating systems like UNIX and Linux can start a second instance of a process, if the operating system is very busy and fails to detect that process is already running. This will typically happen when the device is running a lot of tasks simultaneously, and is effectively too busy to police itself properly, it is not necessarily a coding error.

After all this, I rebooted and the Tivo came up fine, but it hung when I wanted to go to Live TV. I decided to uninstall the Expander, as I did not like what the dual install process might have done to the drive tables. It then occurred to me that I had Tivo Desktop Plus running, which I installed on a 1.5 TB backup server I have running under Windows XP Pro. So, to be on the safe side, I took the server down (there is no easy way to stop Desktop), and redid the install.

This time, I sat back and waited to see what would happen, and it turned out I had jumped the gun when I went to "External Storage Device". After a short while, the Tivo came up with a "Storage Device detected, do you want to add" message all by itself. Once I followed the instructions, the Expander installed without a problem.

I think I fell prey to a multi-problem here, caused by the Tivo running slowly, and my jumping the gun, as I am a terminally impatient person, I just spent too many years in R&D in New York , where impatience is part of the curriculum.

First of all, the Western Digital manual should state specifically "After restarting the Tivo, do nothing until the Tivo has detected the Expander, and asks if you want to add it", or some such language.

Secondly, I believe that the Tivo Desktop should not be running when installing the Expander, and consumers should be made aware that they cannot stop the Desktop manually, but should take the entire machine it runs on down. I think what the Desktop does is actually mount the Tivo storage device, and when you change the parameters of the Tivo storage, Desktop can no longer mount it, and drives the Tivo crazy trying to find the mount point. This slows both the PC and the Tivo down significantly, which may be why the Tivo started a second install process - caused by a detection process running so slowly it times out waiting for a response, so never knowing its first attempt was successful. I have since actually had one instance when the Tivo and my backup server both hung completely. Once I reset the Tivo manually, Desktop came back all by itself - I think that proves the above.

After the successful install of the Expander, I noticed the Tivo Desktop Plus no longer pushed my (huuuuge) server video directory out to the "Now Playing" list, and I had to redo all mounts on the Desktop software. This is logical, in hindsight, as the Expander and the internal disk probably present themselves to the Desktop as a single logical device. At any rate, that further confirmed my suspicions about interaction between the disk mount processes, and the Tivo Desktop software. Whether or not this behaviour is unique to the "Plus" upgrade or not I don't know, only the Plus upgrade pushes video files out to the Tivo, after all. It may be best to advise users to uninstall Desktop completely before making any changes to the drive sub-assembly, external as well as internal.

Sorry to be long winded, hopefully this will help somebody. I am 'appy.

[richsadams]

Welcome to the TiVolution and the forum. Sorry to hear that things didn't go well at first, but glad to hear that things are fine now.

Installing the WD My DVR Expander "by the book" means...

1. Power off the TiVo DVR by disconnecting the AC power cord.

2. Connect one end of the eSATA cable to the DVR Expander and the other end to the TiVo DVR.

3. Connect one end of the AC power cord to the DVR Expander and the other end to the electrical outlet. The power LED illuminates.

4. Wait approximately 15 seconds for the hard drive to reach operating speed.

5. Power on the TiVo DVR by reattaching the AC power cord.

6. Follow the on-screen instructions.

AFAIK there's no connection between the TiVo Desktop (or Desktop Plus) program and the addition of the eSATA drive. I've done it, hundreds of others here have done it without any problems. There may be something unique about your network, etc. so your experience may help someone else that might have the same circumstance. However if TiVo's instructions are followed there shouldn't be any issues.

For more info about eSATA drives a visit to the Official eSATA Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ sticky thread is in order. It has everything you need to know about upgrading your TiVo.

Enjoy!

[maartsen]

Thanks for the welcome, Rich, and the pointers. I had indeed read the various sticky threads, including the one about eSATA expansions, which made me decide to get the Expander - I have plenty of eSATA drives lying around, but for the $119 it wasn't worth cracking the case, downloading software and going through a drives wedding or reconfiguration. Not to mention voiding the warranty.

I appreciate your comments, but my network is fine (I know, that's what they all say ), I am a developer for big telecom, with some 20 years under my belt, and I can log into my routers from China and see what's what.

There is what I will call a mount between Desktop Plus (I've not tried this with vanilla Desktop) and the Tivo HD - remember that Desktop Plus pushes the user's video directory live to the What's Playing List, while the music and photo directories have to be accessed from Music, Photos and Showcases - and this connection gets hosed when Desktop Plus has the Tivo mounted during the Expander install. It so happens that I have hundreds of video files in that directory, including one hour gigabyte size MP4 movies, and this may have contributed.

There are two reasons why I am completely certain of what I said. One: the Tivo and the server running Desktop hung at the same time - the server came back immediately when I unplugged the Tivo from the wall. Second: once I had the Expander reinstalled, and Desktop restarted, the Tivo was unable to see anything in the video directory in the What's Playing List - I got a "nothing there" error. Only once I reconfigured the export directories in Desktop did everything return to normal.

I will wager a bet that in some cases where there is a problem installing the Expander, the culprit is Desktop. That would not be known, as nobody ever asks that question, right? I've perused the forums exhaustively, and the answer the user gets is just about always the same: it's the eSATA cable. And having seen with my expert eyes what I saw, I think it may sometimes not be the cable. In my case, it wasn't - I didn't use the cable that came with the drive, but one I had that was "known good", one I had used to set up an eSATA RAID array, just to be on the safe side.

FWIW....

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by maartsen

I will wager a bet that in some cases where there is a problem installing the Expander, the culprit is Desktop...<snip>

I wouldn't question your take on things. It's just that people posting here about problems installing the WD My DVR Expander are extremely rare. In the year and a half or so that the drives have been around anyone that initially ran into a hiccup just didn't follow the basic directions. (Based on your post I think you may be one of them? ) Once they do, everything is fine. Subsequent problems are most often resolved by replacing the eSATA cable or the drive has failed. Were it something to do with TiVo Desktop neither of those solutions would make any difference.

Now people having issues with the TiVo Desktop program? That's a whole other set of threads.

Enjoy!

[drittenhouse]

Hi Richsadams-

I'm relatively new to TiVo -- got a HD Series 3 in November. Last night I tried unsuccessfully to add a DVR Expander (WD 500 GB). Tried it again this morning, to no avail.

I'm following the procedures as prescribed just about everywhere: power down TiVo, add eSATA cable to TiVo and DVR Expander, power up Expander (light comes on; I wait well over a minute to be sure the drive saw up to speed), power up TiVo.

After the 'wait...' screen ends, I go right into the initial TiVo welcome video. I never get any prompts. And when I list my system settings, I still see the same ol' 21 hours of HD capacity, and no reference to any external drive.

I even did a system reset...nothing.

I suspect I'm going to get into a shooting match between TiVo and WD, but I wonder if you can provide any advice first.

Thanks for your help,
Don

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by drittenhouse

I'm relatively new to TiVo -- got a HD Series 3 in November. Last night I tried unsuccessfully to add a DVR Expander (WD 500 GB). Tried it again this morning, to no avail.

Hi Don and welcome. Sorry to hear that your OOB experience with your eSATA hard drive isn't going so well.

To confirm, do you have a TiVo HD or a TiVo Series3? Also are you trying to add the approved WD My DVR Expander or another model? The suggestions below would apply to a TiVo HD or Series3 and the approved WD My DVR Expander. I'd have other suggestions if it's some other combination.

First I'd be sure everything is connected securely, might try reversing the eSATA cable to get a snug fit. When you power up the eSATA drive can you hear it spin up? (You can also try holding it and moving it around...should feel like a gyro if it's spinning.) If all of that is okay I'll trust that you're following these steps...

1. Power off the TiVo DVR by disconnecting the AC power cord.

2. Connect one end of the eSATA cable to the DVR Expander and the other end to the TiVo DVR.

3. Connect one end of the AC power cord to the DVR Expander and the other end to the electrical outlet. The power LED illuminates.

4. Wait approximately 15 seconds for the hard drive to reach operating speed.

5. Power on the TiVo DVR by reattaching the AC power cord.

6. Follow the on-screen instructions.

There's one more thing to look at (and IIRC a few people had to get TiVo's attention this way). Be sure you've followed the steps above then try going through these menus:

TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Remote, Cable Cards and Devices > External Storage.

See what it says there and report back.

Bottom line it sounds like a DOA WD My DVR Expander (if that's what you have). Even if the drive spins up there may be a problem with the enclosure's bridge, etc. It happens. If you've gone through all of that and still no love I'd get an RMA from WD and have them ship a new drive. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

[drittenhouse]

Thanks...I have done everything you have suggested -- at least 3 times. Interestingly (this may be a clue), when I get to step 6 (Follow the on-screen instructions), I get none when I power up my TiVo unit. (What prompts should I see? I just go through the animated TiVo video, then I get the main TiVo button menu. The documentation is a little lacking here...).

I suspect a problem with the eSATA cable. I'll try reversing it and see what happens. If that doesn't work I can check with WD about a replacement. But I got it from Dell, so there may be a lot of finger-pointing going on with this one...

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how things work out.

Don

[drittenhouse]

And yes, I do have a Series 3 HD TiVo, and I'm trying to add the approved My DVR Expander.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by drittenhouse

I suspect a problem with the eSATA cable. I'll try reversing it and see what happens. If that doesn't work I can check with WD about a replacement. But I got it from Dell, so there may be a lot of finger-pointing going on with this one...

The screen prompts should come up as soon as you boot up TiVo. That it's not recognizing the drive at all would indicate that it's not connecting for some reason.

Understood otherwise. A number of reports on the forum have said that WD is now very good about replacing drives no matter where they were originally purchased.

Best of luck!

[beobuff]

Originally Posted by drittenhouse

Thanks...I have done everything you have suggested -- at least 3 times. Interestingly (this may be a clue), when I get to step 6 (Follow the on-screen instructions), I get none when I power up my TiVo unit. (What prompts should I see? I just go through the animated TiVo video, then I get the main TiVo button menu. The documentation is a little lacking here...).

I suspect a problem with the eSATA cable. I'll try reversing it and see what happens. If that doesn't work I can check with WD about a replacement. But I got it from Dell, so there may be a lot of finger-pointing going on with this one...

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how things work out.

Don

A few days ago, I went through the same scenario as you trying to get the WD Expander to make nice with my Tivo HD. It took three or four tries to get the two units working together. I am not certain exactly how I got it to work, but I suspect that reversing the cable and wiggling it a few times in the sockets is what finally did the trick. Boy, those eSATA plugs and sockets are a sloppy fit, even worse than HDMI connectors. As soon as I get the chance, I am going to replace the original cable, hopefully with one that will provide a snugger fit.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by beobuff

Boy, those eSATA plugs and sockets are a sloppy fit, even worse than HDMI connectors. As soon as I get the chance, I am going to replace the original cable, hopefully with one that will provide a snugger fit.

I think you're right on target there. The ports are supposedly standardized and appear to be so w/TiVo and the WD My DVR Expander and other eSATA drive enclosures. However it seems that every company has their own idea of how a cable connector is supposed to be built and it's the luck of the draw when you get an OEM cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is by all accounts (read: as measured by TCF users anyway) built exactly the way they should be. WD appears to have skimped on their cables initially as did Antec (MX-1) at one point, causing a lot of headaches. Hopefully your new cable will give some peace of mind.

[drittenhouse]

Thanks for the tip, Beo. But after a few more unsuccessful tries last night, I'm giving up on this and shipping the unit back. I may wait until a bigger drive is available to do the upgrade. I'm a little tired of all the starts and stops for now.

Is TiVoToGo an option? I can find a 1Tb drive for low 100's. I see a lot of talk on the TiVo site about transferring shows to my PC -- but can they be retrieved easily for later TV display?

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your support. It's nice to know I'm not in this alone.
Don

[mattlscc]

I have a Tivo HD and getting the same problem... My DVR Expander seems to be running, but TiVo just starts up without any on-screen instructions. Should they happen immediately? Or after welcome video? Or what? Please help.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by mattlscc

I have a Tivo HD and getting the same problem... My DVR Expander seems to be running, but TiVo just starts up without any on-screen instructions. Should they happen immediately? Or after welcome video? Or what? Please help.

Welcome to the forum. Have a look at the details about the Expander, how to attach it, etc.:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/get..._capacity.html

Do you have the approved Western Digital My DVR Expander (and not something else)? Are you following the connection instructions exactly?

You've probably already checked, but once TiVo boots up have a look at the System Information screen to see how many hours of recording time you have to be sure your external drive is not already recognized.

If TiVo is just ignoring the external drive after it boots up it could be a loose connection, a bad cable or your drive could be faulty.

Post some more details about exactly what's happening and we'll try to help.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by drittenhouse

Is TiVoToGo an option? I can find a 1Tb drive for low 100's. I see a lot of talk on the TiVo site about transferring shows to my PC -- but can they be retrieved easily for later TV display?

Yes and yes.

[Jaze]

ARRRRGGHHH!!!

After dealing with the gradual death of my 500GB DVR Expander, I finally buckled and bought a replacement WD 1TB Expander. I connected it to my TiVo using the protocol specified by richsadams above. A blue screen came up indicating External Storage had been detected. I clicked on the button to indicate I wanted to set that up. But when the set-up screen for the External Storage was reached, the TiVo could detect no attached storage. Argh!

So I rebooted and redid the instructions, several times, and then I reversed the cable and rebooted several times, then I switched out the fairly new SIG cable I'd bought for first aid when my first DVR Expander was dying, and rebooted several times, and still no luck.

The whole thing is fairly nightmarish because getting access to my components isn't straightforward.

ARGH! Why can't things just WORK???

[Jaze]

And now, of course, it's working.

I'm going to go lie down now.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by Jaze

And now, of course, it's working.

I'm going to go lie down now.

Wow...that was a bit of a harrowing experience! Glad to hear things are behaving now. Can you share what you think made the difference? TIA...and enjoy!

[Jaze]

Like beobuff above, I have no clue what worked. I assume it's an issue about the contacts in the eSATA cable being appropriately sited - the drive is apparently working fine, as is the TiVo. The SIG cable I swapped out and replaced with the (supposedly crappier) cable that came with the HD is new, and has only been used for about 2 or 3 hours, so I don't think it's a problem with the cable itself.

It's an awkward place, the innards of an entertainment center, and not easy to feel the eSATA inputs and outputs, so it requires some scrabbling around, and then the plugs can only be inserted one way. I also wondered whether or not the stiffness of the cable itself made it difficult to seat the plugs into the slots properly and evenly - the one meter cable was curled to fit the plug into the TiVo input, and I thought that might be stressing the contact unevenly.

At the end of the day, though, who knows? I'm just glad I didn't shoot myself before it started working.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by Jaze

Like beobuff above, I have no clue what worked.

Thanks for that. There is obviously an issue with seating the cables. Earlier adopters ended up carving a small bit of plastic back from the end of the cable going into TiVo to get a good connection. It sounds like things are still a little dicey there. In any case, glad to know things are on track now. Enjoy all of that new real estate!

[94bird]

I have a Tivo Series 3 and just purchased the 1 Tb Drive Expander from Tivo. Tivo recognizes my drive, I tell it to set up the drive, it reboots, and then tells me again it detected an external storage device and would I like to set it up.

I am following the directions posted, and am using the original cable that came with the drive for now. I have a SIIG on order, but it will be a few days before it arrives.

If I go to System Information, it tells me a WDC drive is installed for external storage, but I got no screen on powering up that confirms this, and my HD storage is still only 21 hours.

Other than continuing to unplug my Tivo and powering it back up to get it to install properly, are there any other tips?

Edit: OK, now I feel like Jaze. Just for kicks and grins, I turned off the Tivo again, jiggled the esata cable one more time, and voila, it installed.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by 94bird

Edit: OK, now I feel like Jaze. Just for kicks and grins, I turned off the Tivo again, jiggled the esata cable one more time, and voila, it installed.

Happens to the best of us. Enjoy!

[cmaquilino16]

Got my drive installed no problems. The sata wire does have a little play in the slot but it worked. So now that i got the WD drive installed if I have a problem with my Tivo and have to unplug it do I have to unplug the drive too?

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by cmaquilino16

Got my drive installed no problems. The sata wire does have a little play in the slot but it worked. So now that i got the WD drive installed if I have a problem with my Tivo and have to unplug it do I have to unplug the drive too?

It depends. If you're just rebooting TiVo, then no. If you intend to disconnect it temporarily, yes. The key is to never unplug the eSATA drive without first unplugging TiVo, and then to never power TiVo up without first powering up the eSATA drive. In other words, once the drive is connected TiVo will always need to be able to "talk" to it.

Just be sure to follow the directions and you'll be fine...

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/get..._capacity.html

Enjoy!

[Moosifer]

Is anyone having problems with the tivo acting kind of slow after the installation of the WD external drive?

I have a Tivo HD and just got the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. Followed the instructions.

Unplug tivo > connect esata from wd to tivo > plug power into WD> wait a bit> plug in tivo> wait for the booting to happen> run through the prompts for setting up the WD.

Anyway. Now it's slow to respond sometimes. If I pause a show it takes a minute sometime for the show to actually pause. Then while the show is paused and I hit the tivo button to go to the main menu it takes a bit for the background to catch up.

Any ideas?

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by Moosifer

Is anyone having problems with the tivo acting kind of slow after the installation of the WD external drive?

I have a Tivo HD and just got the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. Followed the instructions.

Unplug tivo > connect esata from wd to tivo > plug power into WD> wait a bit> plug in tivo> wait for the booting to happen> run through the prompts for setting up the WD.

Anyway. Now it's slow to respond sometimes. If I pause a show it takes a minute sometime for the show to actually pause. Then while the show is paused and I hit the tivo button to go to the main menu it takes a bit for the background to catch up.

Any ideas?

It takes a minute to pause?! Or was that a figure of speech? In any case, that's not the norm. Be sure the SATA cable is snugly connected at both ends. Reboot both TiVo and the Expander (disconnect the power from TiVo, then turn off the Expander, wait 15 seconds for it to spin down, then start it up, wait another 15 seconds for it to spin up, then plug TiVo back in).

Then I'd give it a couple of days to see if the problem(s) continue. If they do and if you can live without the recordings that were made since you connected it, I would disconnect it (follow the proper divorce procedure - http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/get..._capacity.html) and see if things go back to normal for a couple of more days. Connect it again and see how it goes. If the problem persists I would probably get a replacement Expander.

[Moosifer]

Thanks for the reply. I restarted the tivo one last time and everything appears to be functioning normally now. A friend of mine has the Tivo HD with the 500GB WD Extender on it and he said it starts to go wonky about every 6 weeks but works fine again when he restarts it. Hopefully I won't have that problem.

Thanks for the advice!

[if200]

Hello. Having a smilar problem and have installed dvr expanders (obviously not this exact one) on cable boxes before with no issues. my 1st question is how do you tell your storage capacity left on the series 3 model? my 2nd query is - the Tivo recognizes that the dvr expander is there in the system but everytime you turn it on it asks you to format it. I do and wait for it to reboot and it asks you the question again. For some reason it is not formatting the dvr expander. Will undo everything and try again but if anyone has any suggestions it would be appreciated. thanks.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by if200

Hello. Having a smilar problem and have installed dvr expanders (obviously not this exact one) on cable boxes before with no issues. my 1st question is how do you tell your storage capacity left on the series 3 model? my 2nd query is - the Tivo recognizes that the dvr expander is there in the system but everytime you turn it on it asks you to format it. I do and wait for it to reboot and it asks you the question again. For some reason it is not formatting the dvr expander. Will undo everything and try again but if anyone has any suggestions it would be appreciated. thanks.

To your first question, there is no storage capacity meter on any TiVo except the new Premiere models. You can use third party programs like KTTMG, PyTivo, PyTiVoX (Mac) or iTiVo (also Mac) to get an estimate.

It sounds like your eSATA drive is problematic. Have a read of this post and see if anything helps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...44#post7553444

Let us know how it goes and best of luck!

[if200]

Originally Posted by richsadams

To your first question, there is no storage capacity meter on any TiVo except the new Premiere models. You can use third party programs like KTTMG, PyTivo, PyTiVoX (Mac) or iTiVo (also Mac) to get an estimate.

It sounds like your eSATA drive is problematic. Have a read of this post and see if anything helps:


Let us know how it goes and best of luck!

Thanks so much for the quick reply. After reading the faq I think the problem is I have an upgraded internal 1 tb drive and thus can not use the dvr expander without opening the Tivo. However a new Tivo premiere should be arriving today and I will use the new dvr expander with that model.

Thanks again for answering so quickly!