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Old 02-23-2009, 02:01 PM   #91
burnside
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Great work man, can't wait to try this out!
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:23 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by txporter View Post
This is sort of a tangential question, but what are the Tivo limitations for mp4 as far as framerate, etc. The tivos don't like anything but 29.97 fps MPEG2, is the same true for mp4 file, or can tivo except 23.976 fps and other framerates?

Jason
That's news to me. I'm pretty sure I have a bunch of mpeg2 DVD rips with 23.97 fps that play fine on my S3 Tivos. Some of those rips I converted to mp4 (preserving frame rate) for mp4 testing purposes and they also play fine. Could it be perhaps S2s and earlier that didn't like alternate frame rates?
It looks to me like tivo decoding of mp4 container with h.264 video & aac or ac3 audio is pretty flexible as far as framerate, resolution, bit rate, etc. I believe level 4.1 or lower is still a requirement (i.e. level 5.1 for example doesn't work but I think encodings at that level are very rare anyway).
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:35 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
OK, I've integrated basic h.264 pushing into my pyTivo fork. It's a bit hackish yet, but you can run one pyTivo instance and serve both MPEG-2 and h.264. If you're pushing to an S3/HD, the push function now checks if the file has h.264 video and AAC or AC3 audio, and attempts to pass it through if so. Otherwise it behaves as before. This doesn't check things like the container type yet, so there could be a lot of false positives. If the push fails, you'll have to pull (and get it transcoded to MPEG-2). Still, it's pretty cool.
That was quick! Thanks for implementing the changes. Shall check it out tonight.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
That's news to me. I'm pretty sure I have a bunch of mpeg2 DVD rips with 23.97 fps that play fine on my S3 Tivos. Some of those rips I converted to mp4 (preserving frame rate) for mp4 testing purposes and they also play fine. Could it be perhaps S2s and earlier that didn't like alternate frame rates?
It looks to me like tivo decoding of mp4 container with h.264 video & aac or ac3 audio is pretty flexible as far as framerate, resolution, bit rate, etc. I believe level 4.1 or lower is still a requirement (i.e. level 5.1 for example doesn't work but I think encodings at that level are very rare anyway).
Hmm...well, I thought that I had tried this...but maybe not?? I have read a few posts from the folks at VideoRedo that seemed pretty certain about this and I thought I had followed up and tried it on my TivoHD, but maybe not. I would like to be able to take telecined DVDs and encode them as progressive 23.976 fps and avoid running pulldown on them again if it is possible. I suppose I will need to try it.

Thanks for the info on mp4 though. With the advent of being able to upload mp4s to the tivo, I might alter my plans to convert to MPEG2 and begin moving everything to mp4.

Also, I guess that I haven't seen a question or answer about this, but uploaded mp4s play and act the same as MPEG2 on the tivo?

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Old 02-23-2009, 06:45 PM   #95
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One thing that messed me up at first - despite it having been mentioned more than once in this thread - is not making sure qt-faststart had been run on the video in question.

This is kinda cool!
Can I get some help in how to run qt-faststart? I see that there is a C and Python version - which should I use, and how do I execute it? I'm a bit lost...
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:55 PM   #96
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Can I get some help in how to run qt-faststart? I see that there is a C and Python version - which should I use, and how do I execute it? I'm a bit lost...
Python version would make it more platform independent so would be the better choice. (I haven't tried Python version so can't confirm if it works properly or not). If you are on windows then there's compiled versions readily available already. I have a compiled version for windows as part of kmttg distribution (also includes the c code for a simple compile on other platforms). The syntax for the C-version is very simple:
qt-faststart infile outfile
If successful you will see some output messages about moov atom being moved to front of the file. The resulting output file will be identical in size to input file and function fine in all players so no point keeping the original version around once you are satisfied newly created file works.

P.S. Since a python version is available theoretically a nice touch to the pyTivo integration would be to check the mp4 file to see if moov atom is at the front of the file and if not spit out an error message accordingly... I suppose one could even make it automatically run the conversion if necessary but I think that's pushing things too far once you start messing with video files without user intervention since something could go wrong.

P.P.S. I suppose another possible tactic is pyTivo to take the streambaby approach and send the relevant section of the mp4 file containing moov atom ahead of the rest of the file (I'm not exactly sure how Keary is doing it in streambaby but I think that's the gist of it). That way no pre-processing of file would be needed just as it is in streambaby. However that would probably involve a lot of extra coding headaches and is probably not worthwhile.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:07 PM   #97
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Thanks - I was looking for a compiled version and that helped greatly. So I tried using it on a .mkv file that I have, but it turns out it wasn't needed (I received an error when I tried to use it on the file) and the video transfered using pyTivo without transcoding - awesome!

Now my question is what files require using qt-faststart before transfering, and do you receive some sort of error when pushing if a file needs qt-faststart? Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:14 PM   #98
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Thanks - I was looking for a compiled version and that helped greatly. So I tried using it on a .mkv file that I have, but it turns out it wasn't needed (I received an error when I tried to use it on the file) and the video transfered using pyTivo without transcoding - awesome!

Now my question is what files require using qt-faststart before transfering, and do you receive some sort of error when pushing if a file needs qt-faststart? Thanks for the help.
I posted about that here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...28#post7084028
i.e. As far as pyTivo is concerned there will be no problem, but transfer to Tivo will fail (and recordings history will show some catch all error about failed transfer due to incorrect file size).
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:27 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I posted about that here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...28#post7084028
i.e. As far as pyTivo is concerned there will be no problem, but transfer to Tivo will fail (and recordings history will show some catch all error about failed transfer due to incorrect file size).
So do .mkv files not need this extra step? As I said, I did not run qt-faststart on the .mkv file I pushed, and it worked like a charm. Thanks for your help.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:29 PM   #100
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Quick noob question. I'm getting ready to start converting my dvds to mp4. I had already started on a few conversions to mpeg2, but after finding this thread the other day, I'm excited to switch to mp4. Before I go overboard with converting my entire library, what is the best format for these conversions? I'm guessing h.264 video with aac/ac3, correct? If so, would this allow my tivo to play 5.1 audio?
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:05 PM   #101
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Quick noob question. I'm getting ready to start converting my dvds to mp4. I had already started on a few conversions to mpeg2, but after finding this thread the other day, I'm excited to switch to mp4. Before I go overboard with converting my entire library, what is the best format for these conversions? I'm guessing h.264 video with aac/ac3, correct? If so, would this allow my tivo to play 5.1 audio?
For Tivo purposes you can preserve ac3 5.1 audio as is and transcode to h.264 video. However be warned that since ac3 audio in mp4 container has only recently been ratified some players can't handle that yet. For example Quicktime and Windows Media Player won't play mp4 with ac3 audio but recent versions of VLC do. So if you are targeting other means to play back those files other than Tivo you should check whatever players you plan to use to see if they can handle it. If you use 6 channel aac audio instead that would make it compatible with most players but not sure how Tivo outputs 6 channel aac as far as surround sound goes.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:17 PM   #102
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So do .mkv files not need this extra step? As I said, I did not run qt-faststart on the .mkv file I pushed, and it worked like a charm. Thanks for your help.
Don't know much about Matroska container but probably is very different than mp4 container so doesn't have the same restriction. For mp4 depending on encoder you use it may not be necessary either. If you use ffmpeg to encode to mp4 container then qt-faststart is still necessary (ffmpeg ships with qt-faststart utility).
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:57 PM   #103
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OK, I've integrated basic h.264 pushing into my pyTivo fork. It's a bit hackish yet, but you can run one pyTivo instance and serve both MPEG-2 and h.264. If you're pushing to an S3/HD, the push function now checks if the file has h.264 video and AAC or AC3 audio, and attempts to pass it through if so. Otherwise it behaves as before. This doesn't check things like the container type yet, so there could be a lot of false positives. If the push fails, you'll have to pull (and get it transcoded to MPEG-2). Still, it's pretty cool.
This is great! Thank you very much for making those changes, and for doing it so quickly to boot!
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:06 AM   #104
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So do .mkv files not need this extra step? As I said, I did not run qt-faststart on the .mkv file I pushed, and it worked like a charm. Thanks for your help.
Can you post the details of a sample .mkv file that works with native push? I wasn't able to get a .mkv container with h.264 video & ac3 audio to push natively to Tivo (and it won't stream to Tivo natively either).
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:55 AM   #105
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Newbie results with mp4

My experiences with mp4 push.

Videos were recoded into Digital AVC format, Main Profile. Max ref frames = 1, Max keyframes = 300, Max b frames = 3, CABAC and Weighted Prediction enabled.

Video Results: Choppy video motion at both 480p and 720p recodes. Files below approx. 1gb (around 1Mbs) showed lack of detail on 60" screen, and choppiness on high motion scenes. Files of approx. 2Gb size (around 3Mbs) had better detail but exhibited more choppiness on even slow motion playback. There were no observed problems on computer playback (24" monitor, WMP).

Audio Results: Files were transcoded into 5.1 AAC ( confirmed through examination of file properties on computer). However, my receiver indicated that only 2 channel was being passed from S3.

High Profile transcodes would not push.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:29 AM   #106
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My experiences with mp4 push.
Mine look great so far.

You don't say what encoder you're using.

Quote:
Audio Results: Files were transcoded into 5.1 AAC ( confirmed through examination of file properties on computer). However, my receiver indicated that only 2 channel was being passed from S3.
I think you have to use AC3 for 5.1 to work on the TiVo.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:33 AM   #107
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Integrated qt-faststart into my pyTivo fork with a patch from Keary.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:27 AM   #108
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Can you post the details of a sample .mkv file that works with native push? I wasn't able to get a .mkv container with h.264 video & ac3 audio to push natively to Tivo (and it won't stream to Tivo natively either).
Looks like we're having varying success (or limited success, for that matter) with pushing native .mkv files. Anybody else have any luck?
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:43 AM   #109
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Reply to wmcbrine - Encoder type

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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Mine look great so far.

You don't say what encoder you're using.

I think you have to use AC3 for 5.1 to work on the TiVo.
Used NERO Recode (from version 8)- Could you be so kind as to share your encoder process/settings to allow me a little more success?

THANKS!
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:52 AM   #110
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Integrated qt-faststart into my pyTivo fork with a patch from Keary.
FYI looks to me like qt-faststart only works for mp4 container. I haven't yet found another container that works (I tried mkv and transport stream) so may not be a big deal, but probably the code could use a patch to restrict qt-faststart run for mp4 container type only just in case.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:58 AM   #111
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Used NERO Recode (from version 8)- Could you be so kind as to share your encoder process/settings to allow me a little more success?

THANKS!
Try ffmpeg with something like:
ffmpeg -y -i INPUT_FILE -vcodec libx264 -coder 0 -level 41 -sameq -g 300 -bufsize 14745k -b 5000k -maxrate 16000k -bug "+autodetect+ms" -me epzs -trellis 2 -mbd 1 -acodec copy -f mp4 OUTPUT_FILE
(You can adjust the bit rate to suit your size vs quality tradeoff with -b argument)

P.S. If you are looking for maximum quality then a multi-pass encode would probably be necessary. Nice thing about ffmpeg is you can google for recipes all over the place.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:21 AM   #112
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FYI looks to me like qt-faststart only works for mp4 container. I haven't yet found another container that works (I tried mkv and transport stream) so may not be a big deal, but probably the code could use a patch to restrict qt-faststart run for mp4 container type only just in case.
The qt-faststart code is only run when the mime type is video/mp4 and the video has already been determined to be TiVo compatible. This should only occur when it is an mp4 container. (Because video/mp4 mime type implies an MP4 container).

Currently (as wmcbrine mentioned in an earlier post) only the codec is checked for h264, not the container, so more video is being marked as "no transcode needed" and marked with video/mp4, which will end up triggering the qt-faststart. Once we determine exactly what formats the TiVo supports as untranscoded (which I think is probably just mpeg-ps & mp4) and this is changed (at a higher level than the qt-faststart code) I think the issue you are mentioning will go away.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:34 AM   #113
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So Keary, does this mean that if our mp4s contain h264 then we should be fine?
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:47 AM   #114
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does this mean that if our mp4s contain h264 then we should be fine?
The current check is mp4 should contain h.264 video and aac or ac3 audio. With latest wmcbrine code now you no longer have to worry about potentially having to run qt-faststart on your mp4 since pyTivo will do it if necessary.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:47 AM   #115
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So Keary, does this mean that if our mp4s contain h264 then we should be fine?
I'm sure there are always going to be "exceptions", but an MP4 that has the following characteristics should work.

1. h264 video, high profile level 4.1 or below
2. AAC or AC3 audio3
3. Possibly needs to be well "interleaved"

The last one is the hardest to define, but it basically means that the audio and video within the file are interleaved correctly. This means that audio sample for a particular frame is somewhere "near" the video sample for that frame. (I don't know what the TiVo's definition of "near" is going to be...) The TiVo has problems streaming poorly interleaved files, I don't know how well it will do with downloading poorly interleaved files.

I noticed someone mentioned "choppy" video earlier, and for MP4 streaming to the TiVo this is sometimes caused by poorly interleaved files.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:32 PM   #116
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Just to add to what Keary said, I haven't actually tried it but it's likely MP2 & MP3 audio would probably also work in addition to AAC and AC3 audio formats.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:40 PM   #117
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3. Possibly needs to be well "interleaved"

The last one is the hardest to define, but it basically means that the audio and video within the file are interleaved correctly. This means that audio sample for a particular frame is somewhere "near" the video sample for that frame. (I don't know what the TiVo's definition of "near" is going to be...) The TiVo has problems streaming poorly interleaved files, I don't know how well it will do with downloading poorly interleaved files.

I noticed someone mentioned "choppy" video earlier, and for MP4 streaming to the TiVo this is sometimes caused by poorly interleaved files.
This sounds like a fascinating topic all to itself. Would love to learn more.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:50 PM   #118
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Thanks for explaining all this to me. Never knew about interleaved either! Totally new to me.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:47 PM   #119
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I have mkv files that are 1080p using DTS as audio. I know that the mkv is still up in the air for passthru, but how about the DTS audio? Is AC3 the only supported passthru audio type?
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:04 PM   #120
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I have mkv files that are 1080p using DTS as audio. I know that the mkv is still up in the air for passthru, but how about the DTS audio? Is AC3 the only supported passthru audio type?
I have had success with 3 of 4 mkv files I have pushed using pyTivo, so while I'm still unsure as to why the 4th file did not work, I think the passthrough process is working (in general) for mkv files. You bring up a good question on the DTS audio. I have a file that I pushed via pyTivo this morning, which was originally a mkv file with DTS, however when I play the file my stereo shows Dolby Digital 5.1. However, when I stream the same file using my PS3, my stereo shows DTS. Any idea on what's happening to the DTS?
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