Place a "guard area" to the left of teh alphabet matrix

[pdhenry]

One keypress too many in the left direction while entering a search term and you get kicked back to the previous menu screen. It would be nice to have a landing zone to the left of the alphabet that would save you from going to the previous screen (until you press two times too many, I guess).

This is a common issue with the alphabet box in other TiVo screens but since we're being served that pages from off the box the time to load the old screen adn reload the correct screen is a bigger bother with the new search function.

[steve614]

+1.

I was using the regular search earlier to compare speed with the new Tivo Search and noticed the regular search will block exiting if you left key too fast.

[dswallow]

I believe the regular search also retains whatever you'd already entered if you come right back into it after accidentally leaving it.

[TiVoPony]

Originally Posted by dswallow

I believe the regular search also retains whatever you'd already entered if you come right back into it after accidentally leaving it.

As does TiVo Search.

Pony

[turbobozz]

Originally Posted by TiVoPony

As does TiVo Search.

Pony

That's not a good enough bandaid.

This is one of my biggest peeves with the keypads right next to the left edge.
It feels like someone at TiVo is trying to preserve the TiVo UI archetype of left arrow taking you back to the previous menu when you hit the left edge, no matter what.

The HME apps shouldn't be treated as simple menus.
They take longer to load if you accidentally exit... especiialy if when you exit into a menu list that needs to grab info from remote servers before you can start navigating again.
There should be a better way of handling slow loading apps and mulitplexed functionality of the left arrow.

There's no reason for the UI people to defend the left arrow+left edge previous menu/exit slow app functionality in the name of keeping button presses down.
There's already too many button presses associated with using the keypads, and it just makes it more annoying to accidentally exit because the keypad is laggy.

Put some gutter between the left edge and the keypad.
Or move the keypad.
Or require keys other than arrow keys to leave the keypad. (There's already a shortcut key to exit to the right.)
Or lake a left arrow on the left edge of the keypad go to the banner.
Anything to prevent accidental exits on slow apps.

[ZeoTiVo]

or let us use USB keyboards or a remote with slide out keypad like phones have now - see Vizio new remote at CES for reference.

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by turbobozz

This is one of my biggest peeves with the keypads right next to the left edge.
It feels like someone at TiVo is trying to preserve the TiVo UI archetype of left arrow taking you back to the previous menu when you hit the left edge, no matter what.

The HME apps shouldn't be treated as simple menus.

Keep in mind that the final version of this application may or may not be run from TiVo's servers. Right now, there is a relatively long delay to load the application -- and intermittent lag on text input -- because it is run completely from TiVo's servers. In the future, it is possible that all or some of the client application might be run locally, eliminating the delay in load time and lags in text input.

Personally, I do not like the idea of a gutter area that serves no other purpose. One of the key tenants of UI design is to minimize the clicks necessary to perform a given task, and adding a gutter area just increases the number of clicks to use TiVo Search.

That said, if it is TiVo's intention to run the final version of this application remotely, then I think they could incorporate another feature -- such as input type selection -- that would serve as an effective gutter area. More specifically, TiVo could add a thin vertical bar running up the left side of the screen, with selections for "Keyboard" (default), "Numeric" (like a cell phone), and "Scroll" (like Zune Marketplace Search).

[turbobozz]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Personally, I do not like the idea of a gutter area that serves no other purpose. One of the key tenants of UI design is to minimize the clicks necessary to perform a given task, and adding a gutter area just increases the number of clicks to use TiVo Search.

Minimizing clicks is pointless when it decreases usability and increases frustration with slow parts of the UI.

I don't really care for a pure gutter area either that serves no other purpose, but just about anything is better than butting the laggy keypad up to the left edge directly (UI click-wise).

I think that making left edge and right edge clicks in the keypad wrap to the other side of the keypad would save far more clicks.
I would suggest using the 7sec replay button as the left keypad exit and leave the 30sec skip button as the right exit.
If TiVo insists on sticking to the one single form of the keypad they have now, then this will save people clicks overall.

If TiVo is going to embed little widget apps like keypads within one screen, it might not be a bad idea to start using specific keypresses to activate/enter and deactivate/exit the widgets embedded into a particular screen.

[ciper]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Personally, I do not like the idea of a gutter area that serves no other purpose. One of the key tenants of UI design is to minimize the clicks necessary to perform a given task, and adding a gutter area just increases the number of clicks to use TiVo Search.

How does it increase the number of clicks? You wouldn't need to visit the gutter other thatn with mistakes.

[turbobozz]

Originally Posted by ciper

How does it increase the number of clicks? You wouldn't need to visit the gutter other thatn with mistakes.

He's saying that adding a gutter would add an extra click when you want to go to previous menu... which it would.
But I don't think it is at an area in the UI that needs click saving.

It's important to reduce clicks to highly used functions within a menu/app.
Like making it take fewer clicks to get a season pass by having a default record season pass option available on a shows primary info page.

It makes sense to reduce navigation clicks in a simple pages-of-lists menu like most of the TiVo UI.
In a standalone app, reducing the clicks to exit/leave the app into the normal menus is hardly worthwhile.

(Is it sad that I am apparently passionate enough about this one issue that I feel compelled to ramble on about it?) >.<

[ciper]

Maybe I'm forgetting the layout but going back from the search box returns you to the Tivo Menu right? We have the "Mr TiVo" button for that.

[wgary]

Originally Posted by turbobozz

He's saying that adding a gutter would add an extra click when you want to go to previous menu... which it would.
But I don't think it is at an area in the UI that needs click saving.

It's important to reduce clicks to highly used functions within a menu/app.
Like making it take fewer clicks to get a season pass by having a default record season pass option available on a shows primary info page.

It makes sense to reduce navigation clicks in a simple pages-of-lists menu like most of the TiVo UI.
In a standalone app, reducing the clicks to exit/leave the app into the normal menus is hardly worthwhile.

(Is it sad that I am apparently passionate enough about this one issue that I feel compelled to ramble on about it?) >.<

I hate to support someone who is obviously riled up about something so trivial... but I find I must! This issue is particularly important (in a trivial sort of way) given the long time to return to the search, even if what you were typing is still there. I find it very easy to overshoot and end up back at the previous menu.

To me, the solution should be easy--when you hit the left, jump down to a button that says "back" or "exit". You then click again to confirm or just bop back up to keep entering.

BTW, I think this should be the accepted default behavior when using the keyboard. Other "apps" suffer this same issue.

[nrc]

I notice that the YouTube app sort of addresses this by putting the clear, delete, etc options down the left column. A similar arrangement would also address the inconsistency in alpha input layouts.

[turbobozz]

Originally Posted by wgary

I hate to support someone who is obviously riled up about something so trivial... but I find I must!

I'm not really that riled up about it... I just feel the need to expand on why it sucks every time it gets brought up.
I think I've expanded on it plenty in this thread though so I don't think I need to post on it anymore for idunno at least another month or so.

[TiVoPep]

about this issue, most of which validate some of the insights we've had about it ourselves. We've been grappling with it for a while and are always looking for opportunities to improve it (text entry is a tough design problem on TV UIs).

[ciper]

Originally Posted by TiVoPep

always looking for opportunities to improve it (text entry is a tough design problem on TV UIs).

The Wii added USB keyboard support with version 3.2 IIRC. It uses text entry FAR less than a TiVo does...

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by ciper

The Wii added USB keyboard support with version 3.2 IIRC. It uses text entry FAR less than a TiVo does...

TiVo may already support another form of text entry. I have not tried it, but check out this screen for a new TiVo application for the iPhone / iPod Touch.



It sends the commands to the TiVo over WiFi. I have no idea whether it works with TiVo Search.