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Old 08-11-2009, 03:41 PM   #181
daveak
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No, that doesn't follow. From the reports, it sounds like the problem may be related to network problems (as you say). However, network problems are hardly rare events that you would never expect - the TiVo should be able to deal with them, certainly in some way that's better than crashing. It seems it may be the case that if your network is working perfectly then everything is fine, but if not, the TiVo software can't recover or fail gracefully. That is a problem in the software.
Something is wrong somewhere, we can agree on that.

I have wondered if it couldn't be some sort of hardware problem though. It might be interesting if people started comparing manufacture or refurbish dates (mine is a refurbished S3 from Jan 09, maybe one that was returned to TiVo because it kept crashing with NetFlix and they fixed it? who knows...).

A slightly different chip or other issue? I know this may be a far out idea , but if there is some hardware weakness or problem that only shows up when there is a network issue - maybe that is something to look at. The TiVo is like an older computer in performance (and apparently design), trying to run newer software. Maybe hardware limits are being exposed by running the NetFlix app?
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:30 PM   #182
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Something is wrong somewhere, we can agree on that.

I have wondered if it couldn't be some sort of hardware problem though. It might be interesting if people started comparing manufacture or refurbish dates (mine is a refurbished S3 from Jan 09, maybe one that was returned to TiVo because it kept crashing with NetFlix and they fixed it? who knows...).

A slightly different chip or other issue? I know this may be a far out idea , but if there is some hardware weakness or problem that only shows up when there is a network issue - maybe that is something to look at. The TiVo is like an older computer in performance (and apparently design), trying to run newer software. Maybe hardware limits are being exposed by running the NetFlix app?
Made in Mexico, November 2, 2006. Original S3 (not refurb'ed). No issues.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:16 PM   #183
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First let me say that I think the netflix / tivo idea is great. I have watched several movies and tv shows on it. However there needs to be more HD content! In addition i have had several issues of the tivo freezing during a movie or right after I stop using netflix. Anyone else have issues with netflix freezing the system?
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:37 PM   #184
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Anyone else have issues with netflix freezing the system?
This might be one of the most blatant smeeks I've ever seen

Try reading the posts on this page (or any other page) in this thread.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:26 AM   #185
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Anyone else have issues with netflix freezing the system?
Is this a serious question? Have you not been reading all the previous threads?

Tivo + Netflix = FAIL
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:58 PM   #186
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Is this a serious question? Have you not been reading all the previous threads?

Tivo + Netflix = FAIL
TiVo + NetFlix =
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:02 PM   #187
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TiVo + NetFlix =
I think that's exactly why the people with problems are upset about it. They'd like to use it because it's a great feature, but it doesn't work for them.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:13 PM   #188
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This might be one of the most blatant smeeks I've ever seen

Try reading the posts on this page (or any other page) in this thread.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:58 PM   #189
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I think that's exactly why the people with problems are upset about it. They'd like to use it because it's a great feature, but it doesn't work for them.
I agree. I think it is a great feature. And it works great for me. As for why it does not work for some users My brain says there must be some logical reason, ideally some common reason between the TiVo users having a problem. I have not seen one or heard of one, except maybe some possible network issues, that seem nearly impossible for these users to resolve - And it even may be something they can do nothing about.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:07 PM   #190
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I agree. I think it is a great feature. And it works great for me. As for why it does not work for some users My brain says there must be some logical reason, ideally some common reason between the TiVo users having a problem. I have not seen one or heard of one, except maybe some possible network issues, that seem nearly impossible for these users to resolve - And it even may be something they can do nothing about.
DOn't forget that several of us experiencing issues can use the 360 at the *exact same time* with no issues, so maybe the TiVo connects to Commodore 64s while the XBOX has better servers, but unless it is something as silly as that, it is *not* network related.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:13 PM   #191
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My brain says there must be some logical reason, ideally some common reason between the TiVo users having a problem. I have not seen one or heard of one, except maybe some possible network issues, that seem nearly impossible for these users to resolve - And it even may be something they can do nothing about.
Indeed, there must be a logical reason.

Clearly though, part of it is something wrong with the TiVo software. Whatever is going on in the network, or anything else external to the TiVo, should not be able to make it crash. If network problems are bad enough that the streaming simply cannot work, the TiVo should still be able to fail gracefully.

Some have suggested that TiVo may have had to take shortcuts to get Netflix working on the existing hardware, and they are unable to make it more robust because of this. If that's the case, it just means there's a bug they can't fix, it doesn't mean the problem isn't a bug.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:29 PM   #192
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DOn't forget that several of us experiencing issues can use the 360 at the *exact same time* with no issues, so maybe the TiVo connects to Commodore 64s while the XBOX has better servers, but unless it is something as silly as that, it is *not* network related.
True, I have not forgotten about that ( I knew I should have mentioned about people who can stream it good to another device in their home, but not their TiVo). The XBOX may have better hardware and/ or software to enable it to better compensate for possible network issues.

I still think (though I may be really reaching) that the older and slower hardware in the TiVo, trying to run the newer NetFlix app software could be the culprit. It simply may not have the speed or resources to compensate and/ or recover like newer & faster hardware running today's software.

Assuming there is a common issue (and I know very well what can happen when you assume) causing this problem, then finding the cause will solve it for most users.

Though on the server issue you mentioned - don't TiVos have a different connection point? And don't we all have at least a different connection path to whatever servers are being used - which can introduce all sorts of issues for slower, older computers (i.e. TiVo) trying to decode and reproduce digital images?
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:43 PM   #193
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I have wondered if it couldn't be some sort of hardware problem though. It might be interesting if people started comparing manufacture or refurbish dates (mine is a refurbished S3 from Jan 09, maybe one that was returned to TiVo because it kept crashing with NetFlix and they fixed it? who knows...).
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Made in Mexico, November 2, 2006. Original S3 (not refurb'ed). No issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveak View Post
I still think (though I may be really reaching) that the older and slower hardware in the TiVo, trying to run the newer NetFlix app software could be the culprit. It simply may not have the speed or resources to compensate and/ or recover like newer & faster hardware running today's software.
Only (2) people replied with manufacture dates: me and you. Although I'm sure Tivo could determine dates from the TSNs, maybe there is a pattern that they don't want to publicize? With the (original) S3 model no longer being manufactured, a recall for faulty hardware would put them in a very bad spot. Replace 3-4 year old S3s with similar priced models? That should be the HD XL. Or wait for an S4 and hope/bet that early S3 adopters become early S4 adopters? I would think the latter...
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:04 PM   #194
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I still think (though I may be really reaching) that the older and slower hardware in the TiVo, trying to run the newer NetFlix app software could be the culprit. It simply may not have the speed or resources to compensate and/ or recover like newer & faster hardware running today's software.
Technically the TiVo's CPU has very little to do when streaming Netflix. The video/audio decoding, which is the most processor intensive task, is all done in dedicated hardware. The TiVo should have no more trouble streaming than a Roku box since they have similar CPU speeds. Here's the S3's two chip specs and here's the HD/XL's one combined chip spec.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:17 AM   #195
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It just plain SUX

No matter how you try to justify that Netflix works well it doesn't period.
It should be PLUG and PLAY not PLUG and experiment.
We have lives...families and jobs.
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Old 08-14-2009, 06:05 AM   #196
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Sorry to hear you guys are having Netflix issues. My S3-Netflix experience has been fantastic from the day it appeared. On the same 1080i PDP I have also connected a PS3, and just for gigs and giggles I purchased (and installed) the PlayOn MediaMall plug-in. Well, the Netflix PQ thru the PS3 was far inferior compared to Tivo's Netflix PQ. I also have an XBX 360 but the noise drives me crazy. So, a big hooray from me for Tivo-Netflix

Oh, my S3 is 2 yrs old
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:48 AM   #197
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No matter how you try to justify that Netflix works well it doesn't period.
It should be PLUG and PLAY not PLUG and experiment.
We have lives...families and jobs.
If Tivo+Neflix doesn't work (period), then how do you explain me and other posters that state it works, and works well? There are alternatives to wireless that DON'T require running new wiring. I honestly didn't trust my Linksys to provide a strong, stable signal to my S2, S3, Xbox, Wii and PC that I have in the living room. I live in an apartment complex with at least a dozen wireless networks surrounding me. I borrowed my bro-in-law's Powerline adapters, as well as a Linksys Range Expander, and found both still not doing the job. I finally happened onto a MoCA thread and went that route, and haven't looked back. So yes, I did do some experimenting before I did research (must be some impulsive nature in me), but I found a solution that IS plug and play for my environment. I could have saved myself a step had I done my research first. BTW, did you get a good price for your Tivo?
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:09 AM   #198
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If Tivo+Neflix doesn't work (period), then how do you explain me and other posters that state it works, and works well?
I'm not the person you're asking, but I'd like to point out that it works fine under many conditions, but there are conditions in which it does not. That's a bug - and that bug is there in your software too, whether it ever gets triggered or not. It seems like a lot of people are saying "it works for me, so there's no problem with the software." There clearly IS a problem with the software, it just doesn't affect the majority of people, or if it does, it's not often. I do see how it would be quite irritating for the people who experience it all the time.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:20 PM   #199
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I'm not the person you're asking, but I'd like to point out that it works fine under many conditions, but there are conditions in which it does not. That's a bug - and that bug is there in your software too, whether it ever gets triggered or not. It seems like a lot of people are saying "it works for me, so there's no problem with the software." There clearly IS a problem with the software, it just doesn't affect the majority of people, or if it does, it's not often. I do see how it would be quite irritating for the people who experience it all the time.
With broad, sweeping statements like "No matter how you try to justify that Netflix works well it doesn't period.", it is quite irritating to me when people want to include me in such a statement. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. Rant your head off. For me, Netflix works well. Period. Did it always? No way! When using a wireless solution, I had problems with Tivo & Netflix working together. But I also had problems with my wireless PC and laptop as well. I remedied the situation with (temporary) trial and error with a powerline serup, and then more research. I now have MoCA adapters servicing (via a switch) 2 tivos, a PC, an XBox and a Wii. I may very well have the same bug that afflicts a minority/majority of people, but I've done my part to inoculate my Tivo from it!
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #200
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With broad, sweeping statements like "No matter how you try to justify that Netflix works well it doesn't period.", it is quite irritating to me when people want to include me in such a statement.
Point taken. The other poster was certainly overstating the problem.

Quote:
I may very well have the same bug that afflicts a minority/majority of people, but I've done my part to inoculate my Tivo from it!
True. What gets to me is that some people in the thread seem to blame the problems on the people having them. While some, such as yourself, may have been able to fix things by improving their network setup, not everyone may be able to get things to a point where Netflix always or almost always works. There can be problems in the network beyond your house that you have no control over. Any software that uses the network has to take into account that there can be errors, or that there may be delays in receiving the data. They are perfectly correct to place the responsibility for things like crashes on TiVo - those are bugs in the software that need to be fixed, regardless of whether or not they'd happen with a faster network.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:59 AM   #201
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While I was streaming netflix last night it cut off and went to my now playing list, no brick, no restart, no lockup....
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:12 AM   #202
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Langree, I have had that same experience. That AND freezes. An i think my gripe is not that it doesn't work. When it works its great (aside from no 5.1), but my gripe is that it seems inconsistent. Sometimes no problems, sometimes hangs, has frozen the system a few times, sometimes goes back to now playing list, etc.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:32 AM   #203
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For those with cable modems, our bandwidth is often going to fluctuate based on what our neighbors with the same service are doing. Where I live, Sunday evenings are a particular rough time for me to stream movies and sometimes I'll even have problems playing games over Xbox Live (although rarely, given that video games don't need near the bandwidth as streaming a movie).
Now, in terms of Netflix streaming, I have both my Xbox 360 and TiVo S3 connected via ethernet cables to my router, so the whole issue of the unpredictability of wireless can be disregarded in my case.
When I am having problems with Netflix streaming on my TiVo S3, to get it to play more than a couple seconds at a time, I have found that I can watch that same video on the Xbox 360 and it is able to figure itself out after just stopping once and "adjusting". Whatever Microsoft's code is doing to compensate for the fluctuations in my connection, it appears to be far more sophisticated than TiVo's code. (I don't know about the Roku, I gave mine to a friend to use a few months ago.)
It's up to TiVo to figure out how to improve their code to handle bandwidth fluctuations. If they believe their code is good enough for the majority of their customers, then that's that. However, I would hope if nothing else it would just be a matter of pride for the TiVo developers to be up for the challenge to make their Netflix streaming implementation as good as Microsoft's
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #204
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Microsoft's Silverlight player can adjust to bandwidth fluctuations on the fly. If the bandwidth goes down the player will switch to a lower bandwidth stream, if the bandwidth goes up, the player will switch to a higher stream. Microsoft may have incorporated this into their XBox Netflix player.

TiVo on the other hand will only automatically drop to a lower stream quality if the bandwidth drops, but it will never automatically switch to a higher stream quality. Though that can be triggered using an instant replay.

I'm not sure what Roku does, but unlike TiVo, they are constant updated their player. They recently added 5.1 audio (for Amazon streams) and they plan to add the same new interface that was added on the 360 which allows users to add videos directly from the box.

TiVo tends to implement something on their box and then never change it unless it breaks as seen with the Rhapsody issues people are having. As such I doubt we'll ever see an update to the Netflix player as long as it works for most people. As an example, they blamed the problems that people had the other weekend (freezes, hangs, etc) on the Netflix outage.
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:32 PM   #205
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\ If they believe their code is good enough for the majority of their customers, then that's that. However, I would hope if nothing else it would just be a matter of pride for the TiVo developers to be up for the challenge to make their Netflix streaming implementation as good as Microsoft's
Right, this is exactly my point. My series 1 just worked, etc, and now I'm seeing buggier and buggier stuff show up, not well designed, crammed into a minimalistic box to try and maximize profit.

I think, sadly, TiVo rested on its laurels of being a household brand and forgot why we all love TiVo; Stability and "just works" I bet many TiVo lovers are also iPod/iPhone fans, for the same reason.

The problem with success is keeping ahead of yourself, so others don't have a chance to catch up. The nextflix application is TiVo's Apple TV, which works for some, is awful for others and just not very good compared to the competition.

Whatever the issues are, TiVo should resolve them, not be quiet about it for almost a year.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:28 AM   #206
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FWIW, I have no problems with the stuff I stream from Netflix, almost all of which is HD. I did have problems at one point when I tried using OpenDNS as opposed to my ISP DNS. I believe the reasons for this and solutions have been discussed previously.

I do wish they would add 5.1 audio, though. That in itself is enough to make me check out the Roku player...
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:54 AM   #207
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I do wish they would add 5.1 audio, though. That in itself is enough to make me check out the Roku player...
In case I wasn't clear, Roku only does 5.1 audio for Amazon VoD, not Netflix. As far as I know Netflix streaming doesn't support 5.1 audio.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #208
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Just following up from my last post (a couple or three pages back)...

Since laying down a fresh image on my 1TB drive, I have not had any problems of any kind. Seems like a corruption issue of some sort must have happened, though it could have been a hardware issue on the drive, where some bad sectors ended up getting remapped.

I'm really not sure what caused the problem to begin with. It could have been the power cycling that had happened earlier, or it could also have been something to do with the network. I have DSL, and it occassionally does lose its place, have to reset, and takes a minute or so to come back up. I would hope though, that the Netflix software would not have the ability to do such damage in such a case.

Whatever the case, Tivo and Netflix are back to their usual high performing levels for me, and I haven't had a problem since.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:36 PM   #209
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I only recently got a HD and as soon as I get my cablecards- I am sure I will love it even more. I didn't get it to stream Netflix- that has been a perk! And a nice one.

So far I have been able to see the first season of The Tudors. Since I don't subscribe to premium movie channels- this was great! And bring up some old movies my husband was eager to watch (Pink Panther with Peter Sellers!!) plus a few other things - and now my instant queue is quite long.
So far no problems- it has performed very well, and unlike Amazon- I don't have to pay for it, rent it and watch within 24 hours, or wait till it downloads to my unit.

I like it- it is nicer that it hasn't had any glitches for me. But I look at it as bonus stuff- that I didn't have before.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:42 PM   #210
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I only recently got a HD and as soon as I get my cablecards- I am sure I will love it even more. I didn't get it to stream Netflix- that has been a perk! And a nice one.

So far I have been able to see the first season of The Tudors. Since I don't subscribe to premium movie channels- this was great! And bring up some old movies my husband was eager to watch (Pink Panther with Peter Sellers!!) plus a few other things - and now my instant queue is quite long.
So far no problems- it has performed very well, and unlike Amazon- I don't have to pay for it, rent it and watch within 24 hours, or wait till it downloads to my unit.

I like it- it is nicer that it hasn't had any glitches for me. But I look at it as bonus stuff- that I didn't have before.
Right on, Sheila!
I'm glad to hear it working for you
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