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Old 09-22-2009, 04:56 PM   #271
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I am surprised at so many negative experiences with Netflix on Tivo. I have to say that my experience has been the opposite. I just love it and it works brilliantly for me.

I recently upgraded to TivoHD and I have to say that apart from HD recording, which are nice but not nearly as nice as the ability to see Netflix movies instantly. I have to say that I am a very satisfied customer.

I am not sure if this makes a lot of difference, probably makes some at least, but my Tivo is wired rather than wireless to the internet.
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #272
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I am not sure if this makes a lot of difference, probably makes some at least, but my Tivo is wired rather than wireless to the internet.
It does seem that the quality of the network connection affects how well Netflix works. It's intended to degrade gracefully based on what your connection can handle, but that aspect seems to have some problems.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:14 AM   #273
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The frustration continues. No improvement to the system after trying the following:

1 - logging out and back into NetFlix.

2 - switching from gigabit wired network to 802.11n wireless network.

3 - changing the network settings from manually assigned to DHCP.

YouTube, Internet Videos, Amazon are all slow as well, with frequent freezing, long delays between menus, delayed response to button inputs, etc.

NetFlix remains the worst, but interestingly, tonight, AFTER a menu page has been loaded, it loads up almost instantly, which indicates the data is cached, and points further to some kind of networking connectivity issue, right?

Last thing to try is to try to borrow some neighbors wireless connection to take my own router and Verizon completely out of the picture, but that's going to be a bit of a pain to setup, so I'm not up to it tonight.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:46 AM   #274
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I have the same problem with the BBC Television series "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". I reported the problem to Netflix awhile back, but the episodes still exhibit the same behavior.
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Why don't you try loading Karate Kid 2 (even if you have to hold your nose to do so, LOL), and I'll try Hitchiker's Guide and we can report back here if we had the same problem. That might reveal if they're just bad videos, or it's a random issue. KK2 played fine for me on the laptop, so it's TiVo related, but I'm curious if it's my TiVo, or all TiVos.
FYI - Hitchhiker's Guide (the 1981 series) exhibits the same playback issues for me. Definitely something wrong with NetFlix's encoding for TiVo.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:33 AM   #275
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YouTube, Internet Videos, Amazon are all slow as well, with frequent freezing, long delays between menus, delayed response to button inputs, etc.
This would seem to indicate a network issue between you and TiVo. If you feel like doing some work, you could connect your TiVo directly to the modem. This would bypass any possible router or other issue, though if I remember correctly the router is the modem for FIOS so that might not work.

The other thing you can try is pinging the TiVo servers to see what kind of latency you are getting. You could throw in a trace route as well. Unfortunately I don't know the TiVo server ip address off-hand. You can either packet sniff for it or possibly look it up in the forums.

Your idea to piggy back on your neighbors wi-fi is a good idea, especially if he doesn't have Verizon.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:00 AM   #276
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A good idea until you blow past his HSI cap.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:02 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Distortedloop View Post
Thanks for that. I really want to get a feel for what the "norm" should be for navigating through the menus and movie selections on things like this. Which TiVo do you have? Maybe this is a Series 3 issue?

15 seconds even sounds like a long time, but at least that would be tolerable considering you're essentially just a hitting a web-page, and I can load that web page in under 5 seconds and have the movie actually playing within 20 seconds on a computer attached to the exact same network/routers/switches.

Check out this YouTub video I posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J0lD8A-k2E) of my TiVo loading NetFlix, then paging through one menu, then starting a movie. It takes 78 seconds just to get NetFlix app loaded, 72 seconds to get to the second page of movies in my queue, and 45 seconds for the movie to load and start once play is hit. Last night it took 4:17 from the time I hit the TiVo button to actually have a movie load. Not a huge amount of time in the overall scheme of life but still annoying.

Why on earth would it take less time for a movie to buffer and start then for a stupid text menu to load? and then 4:00 minutes.

If 78 seconds doesn't sound like a long time, try staring at the blank black screen in the YouTube upload while waiting for the system to respond, knowing that you're gonna have to go through it again to see the next menu page.

Since 15 seconds is achievable on other hardware, I'm open to suggestions on things to try. I've already tried rebooting the TiVo. I doubt it's networking, but any router settings that might help?
That's very slow. It's only a few seconds for me.
But it could also be the size of the Instant Queue. I only have 26 titles in my Instant Queue. ANd the connection might be a factor. I'm on FIOS for my INternet.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:34 AM   #278
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FIOS may or may not be a piece of the puzzle. I've mentioned that my Netflix behavior is similar to the above (slow menus, degraded playback) if there is other intensive activity on the network. When downloading a full-thottle torrent Netflix is practically useless on either of my 2 TiVos.

There would appear to be bandwith management issues, either with FIOS, TiVo or both.
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:23 AM   #279
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A good idea until you blow past his HSI cap.
I didn't mean permanently or to stream Netflix. I meant just to test loading the Netflix or any other app. That should use a few KB at most. You're also assuming that his neighbor's HSI has a cap.

Also I would assume that he would have to ask his neighbor first since, at least from what I've seen, most people encrypt their wireless network these days.
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:04 PM   #280
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The frustration continues. No improvement to the system after trying the following:

1 - logging out and back into NetFlix.

2 - switching from gigabit wired network to 802.11n wireless network.

3 - changing the network settings from manually assigned to DHCP.

YouTube, Internet Videos, Amazon are all slow as well, with frequent freezing, long delays between menus, delayed response to button inputs, etc.

NetFlix remains the worst, but interestingly, tonight, AFTER a menu page has been loaded, it loads up almost instantly, which indicates the data is cached, and points further to some kind of networking connectivity issue, right?

Last thing to try is to try to borrow some neighbors wireless connection to take my own router and Verizon completely out of the picture, but that's going to be a bit of a pain to setup, so I'm not up to it tonight.

Well, it gets weirder and weirder. NetFlix working perfectly now (still). I can't complain with the speeds. 4-5 seconds tops to get to a menu.

To sum up the changes I made that seem to have fixed it:

Change network settings from static to DHCP.

Logout of NetFlix on the TiVo and log back in.

Swapped network cable with a new one, and used a different port on the network switch.

Added NetFlix to the Now Playing List.

24 hours later, all still working great, so I decided to try to see which of the items might have actually been the culprit.

I put back my manual static IP addresses. Put back the original Ethernet cable, and plugged back into the original jack on the switch. Everything still nice and snappy. How can this be?

The only thing different than the original configuration now is that I have NetFlix showing as a red folder in the NPL screen.

The only idea I have left at this point is that putting NetFlix in the NPL somehow keeps the connection to TiVo live, or it periodically (frequently) phones home to see what's in your queue. It would have to be very frequently because I moved a movie to the top of the queue on my laptop, and in the amount of time it took me to grab the remote and hit NetFlix on the TiVo, the movie was in the top of the TiVo queue. On the other hand, when I added some new movies to the bottom of the queue, they didn't immediately show when I paged to the bottom, but when I forced a page down a second time, they showed within 5 seconds. While typing all that, though, I did one more test, and while paging rapidly through my instant queue pages, a couple of them took 4-5 seconds to show, and on one of them I got an actual "error communicating with NetFlix, try again" message. That means the data is refreshed live.

So what the heck changed that now I have no issues? I suppose I should just be happy it's working and leave it be.

I'm going to try to remove the NetFlix folder from the NPL screen to see if that's what makes it faster, as it's the only thing different from my original setup at this point. TiVo says this can take 24 hours to come off the NPL, so I may not be able to test again until tomorrow.

Regarding my overall TiVo experience with NMEs:

YouTube still seems slow, it takes 8 seconds to load its first screen, but it's 45 more seconds before it's responsive to input from the remote.

TiVo search is still barely useable. 8 sec to load, but then 105 seconds to become responsive at all. I still don't get more than one or two icons at the top for suggested, and it takes 10-30 seconds for data to show in the listings when I move the cursor around on the top. This was like this before I put my system back into its original configuration, so the issues here are different than whatever was killing the NetFlix experience.

Last edited by Distortedloop : 09-24-2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason: corrected statement "added NetFlix to the Now Playing List from originally posted error of added TiVo to NPL
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:57 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Distortedloop View Post
To sum up the changes I made that seem to have fixed it:

Change network settings from static to DHCP.

Logout of NetFlix on the TiVo and log back in.

Swapped network cable with a new one, and used a different port on the network switch.
None of these things are likely to have any effect on network performance. DHCP definitely will not. DHCP is merely a means of obtaining the network addresses, including the IP address, the default gateway, and the DNS addresses. Once obtained, DHCP is unused until the lease expires or the Ethernet port is taken down.

I would not expect logging in and out of NetFlix on the TiVo to have an effect, but it's possible. While unlikely, it's certainly the most likely of the three.

It's also possible a bad network cable could cause performance issues, especially if the cable causes the auto-negotiation to fall back to 10M and / or half duplex (sometimes seen if the cable is straight when it should be flipped or vice-versa), but otherwise this is extremely unlikely. Disregarding duplex mismatches and cable gender issues, in general either the ports and cable will work or they won't.

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Added TiVo to the Now Playing List.
Huh? How does one add a TiVo to the NPL?

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I put back my manual static IP addresses. Put back the original Ethernet cable, and plugged back into the original jack on the switch. Everything still nice and snappy. How can this be?
'Simple, actually. Probably none of these things were the problem. I would have bet heavily against all of them at the outset.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:18 AM   #282
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I didn't read through the entire thread, but just an FYI that my experience improved dramatically after I moved to a N router instead of a B/G router. The newer router just seems to handle the high traffic better.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:49 AM   #283
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I'm not sure if this happens on consumer grade equipment, but I've seen an switch at work shut down a port after taking too many network errors. A network engineer had to "dial in" to the switch and reset the port. Perhaps the act of the OP switching ports broke the association of Tivo's interface with that particular port, and any error counters were reset to zero. This may be a stretch that the expectation of a consumer grade switch has such intelligence. I just don't know!
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:23 AM   #284
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Could someone add Doctor Who Season 2 to their Netflix instant queue and post if the episodes work from your Tivo? It doesn't work on my S3 but works fine from the Xbox.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:48 AM   #285
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None of these things are likely to have any effect on network performance. DHCP definitely will not. DHCP is merely a means of obtaining the network addresses, including the IP address, the default gateway, and the DNS addresses. Once obtained, DHCP is unused until the lease expires or the Ethernet port is taken down.
I'm aware of the function of DHCP, yet several here insisted this must be a networking problem, and DHCP vs manually input settings are about all you can change on the TiVo itself. Read my earlier posts and you'll see I insisted it couldn't be networking because a Mac Mini on the exact same switch/router path has zero issues with NetFlix or YouTube speeds. Since this was easy enough to change, why not test it out? Note that DHCP gives you the router for DNS servers, whereas I had manually input OpenDNS servers, so DHCP vs manually input static info certainly can impact networking if you make a typo or pick a bad DNS address.

Quote:
I would not expect logging in and out of NetFlix on the TiVo to have an effect, but it's possible. While unlikely, it's certainly the most likely of the three.
Sounded unlikely as well, but it took two minutes to do, and others reported it has fixed issues for them, so again, why not try it?

Quote:
It's also possible a bad network cable could cause performance issues, especially if the cable causes the auto-negotiation to fall back to 10M and / or half duplex (sometimes seen if the cable is straight when it should be flipped or vice-versa), but otherwise this is extremely unlikely. Disregarding duplex mismatches and cable gender issues, in general either the ports and cable will work or they won't.
Again, my belief as well, but when you're out of ideas on your own, and the group suggests try this, and it takes three seconds to try, why not?

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Huh? How does one add a TiVo to the NPL?
Aw, c'mon, gimme a break. Clearly I meant I added NetFlix to the NPL and just made a typo there as indicated by my comment four paragraphs later where I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedLoop
The only idea I have left at this point is that putting NetFlix in the NPL somehow...
I'll edit the original post so that it's not misunderstood by others who haven't read it yet. I actually think this is the problem, but I'll post that in another message so it doesn't get lost in the noise of this one.

Quote:
Probably none of these things were the problem. I would have bet heavily against all of them at the outset.
Okay, so you don't think that any of the above was/is the problem/solution, yet I see no suggestion from you as to what the problem was, or what you would have done to try fixing it.

What would you have tried? What do you think the issue was?

Clearly one of the things above impacted this on my system, since after playing with the above, it worked quite well for 24 hours, or are you suggesting that after a year of slow NetFlix app loading and screen paging that it's just coincidental that the evening I actually try to resolve the issue it suddenly appears to start working well? I doubt it's just coincidence. What's your theory?
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:11 AM   #286
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To sum up the changes I made that seem to have fixed it:
<snip>
Added NetFlix to the Now Playing List.
<snip>
The only thing different than the original configuration now is that I have NetFlix showing as a red folder in the NPL screen.
<snip>
The only idea I have left at this point is that putting NetFlix in the NPL somehow keeps the connection to TiVo live, or it periodically (frequently) phones home to see what's in your queue. I'm going to try to remove the NetFlix folder from the NPL screen to see if that's what makes it faster, as it's the only thing different from my original setup at this point. TiVo says this can take 24 hours to come off the NPL, so I may not be able to test again until tomorrow.
So this morning the NetFlix folder is gone from the NPL, and I test NetFlix from the VOD menu.

Similar lousy performance/behavior as before. It took about 45 seconds to load the app, then well over a minute to get the first screen of NetFlix queued movies. Each subsequent screen took between 45 and 70 seconds to load up. Once loaded though, even after exiting NetFlix and returning to it, the same screens loaded up in a few seconds.

There seems to be some kind of cacheing going on here.

It's interesting that the fast performance lasted 24 hours while the NetFlix folder was in my NPL, but it was gone less than 12 hours later when the NetFlix folder was removed from the NPL.

This is going to take more testing to confirm the NPL is somehow improving performance, but I'm not sure what the best test would be at this point, leave the NPL off to see how long the fast speeds last without NPL, or leave NPL on to see if waiting 36 hours or more loses the speed.

I'm wondering if anyone reading this doesn't have the NetFlix folder in the NPL, and if they have good speeds or not. Any feedback on that appreciated.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:25 PM   #287
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Router Firmware Seems To Affect Performance

I was checking out the latest DD-WRT firmware V24 and saw that it seemed to have a lot more features that I wanted to play with. I was on V22. I decided to flash my Linksys to V24 and that was not a good idea. After doing so, I started have all sorts of Netflix playback problems with jumping and skipping and audio sync issues while watching Lost on my BD390. I had never seen it before even on Tivo. I could usually correct the problem by rewinding and causing a rebuffer, but it continued to happen. After a little while, I decided to revert, but couldn't quickly locate my older version (dummy me didn't have a .bin anywhere). So I relfashed with Tomato. I don't know what happened but I'm now accessing Netflix in about 8 seconds where it was about 12 before. I also don't seem to have the skipping, jumping and sync issues any longer.

Note the title of this post and the word "Seems". I could go back the DD-WRT V24 and see if it happens again, but I don't want to. Things are stable now and I'm not so excited about experimenting anymore.
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:53 PM   #288
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When accessing movies in Netflix my Tivo would constantly freeze. Some movies not at all, some movies multiple times.

I changed the security setting to basically make the connection not secure and added a network access key to the Tivo. Absolutely no issues since then. It doesn't even do the pause and stream then resume thing it used to. This is with a wireless connection by the way.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:13 AM   #289
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Could someone add Doctor Who Season 2 to their Netflix instant queue and post if the episodes work from your Tivo? It doesn't work on my S3 but works fine from the Xbox.
I was able to play the first 2 minutes of "The Christmas Invasion" with no issues. I'm not a Doctor Who fan, so I didn't watch more of it. Was there a specific episode that had issues? I found that problem with some series'. I think 1 or 2 episodes in Lost Season 4 gave me problems.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:18 AM   #290
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I thought, perhaps incorrectly- that you *had* to have the Netflix in your Now Playing List for the queue to work. I lost it from the NPL on a reboot after power outages- and it didn't seem to work, until I got it back. I have no problems with load times and *very* seldom does it lose the program while I am watching, and very quick to catch it back up. With Netflix and Amazon VOD I am a happy camper. Especially as Netflix is free extra content along with my DVD membership.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:40 PM   #291
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I've yet to receive a DVD via mail. My Netflix account is strictly for streaming. It'd be nice to have a streaming only account.
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:16 AM   #292
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I was able to play the first 2 minutes of "The Christmas Invasion" with no issues. I'm not a Doctor Who fan, so I didn't watch more of it. Was there a specific episode that had issues? I found that problem with some series'. I think 1 or 2 episodes in Lost Season 4 gave me problems.
I watched that specific episode that way, because my local PBS station didn't air it (it being an episode 0, I guess), and it worked just fine, even with my absolute-cheapest-avilable-broadband connection.


My (very brief) experiences with Netflix on Tivo HD have been very positive too. I mean it's still lamer than watching on disc, or recorded, but it did work surprisingly well, and I ues even the jump back button works, and it remembers your position, etc.

It's something I don't really use, but don't mind having it there!
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:09 AM   #293
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The last time that I checked in on the Netflix feature, it seemed that certain TIVO models did just fine where the S3, the model that I have, continued to have problems.

Is that still pretty much the state of things for the S3?

By the way, I looked at the last couple of pages of post and its not clear in most of the post who has what model Tivo.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:29 AM   #294
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The last time that I checked in on the Netflix feature, it seemed that certain TIVO models did just fine where the S3, the model that I have, continued to have problems.

Is that still pretty much the state of things for the S3?

By the way, I looked at the last couple of pages of post and its not clear in most of the post who has what model Tivo.
I have a S3 and used to have a lot of problems with Netflix pausing, etc. I was using a wireless connection. I changed the wireless to a powerline adapter and since then my Netflix has worked perfectly. We have watched at least 5 shows from Netflix without any pausing and the quality is good.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:03 AM   #295
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I thought, perhaps incorrectly- that you *had* to have the Netflix in your Now Playing List for the queue to work. I lost it from the NPL on a reboot after power outages- and it didn't seem to work, until I got it back. I have no problems with load times and *very* seldom does it lose the program while I am watching, and very quick to catch it back up. With Netflix and Amazon VOD I am a happy camper. Especially as Netflix is free extra content along with my DVD membership.
NetFlix in your NPL is an option. You can also get it via the VOD menu, along with your Amazon, YouTube, etc.

Not sure why you wouldn't want it in your NPL, but I didn't for quite some time, partly because NetFlix on my Series 3 is such a painful experience.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:16 AM   #296
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So this morning the NetFlix folder is gone from the NPL, and I test NetFlix from the VOD menu.

Similar lousy performance/behavior as before. It took about 45 seconds to load the app, then well over a minute to get the first screen of NetFlix queued movies. Each subsequent screen took between 45 and 70 seconds to load up. Once loaded though, even after exiting NetFlix and returning to it, the same screens loaded up in a few seconds.

There seems to be some kind of cacheing going on here.

It's interesting that the fast performance lasted 24 hours while the NetFlix folder was in my NPL, but it was gone less than 12 hours later when the NetFlix folder was removed from the NPL.
Okay, 48 hours later, haven't touched NetFlix on my TiVo other than adding it back to the NPL 48 hours ago.

It sucks again. 45 seconds to load the application, 66 seconds per page to load my Queue. My queue isn't particularly large at 67 titles, though many of those are TV series with multiple sub-titles within the season folder.

This supports my previous theory that my brief periods of acceptable speed were only due to some kind of cacheing of the data or connection if I'd accessed NetFlix recently.

To bring those just joining in the discussion up to speed on my setup: 2 year old Series 3, external esata drive, hardwired Ethernet connection going through one dumb switch to the router, which is a Verizon Westell with a MOCA connection to a 20/5MB/s connection. Bypassing the switch makes no difference, new cable makes no difference. Changing network settings makes no difference. All TiVo self tests and network connection tests report no issues. A Mac Mini with the same network connection has zero issues with any Internet activity, including NetFlix which loads and starts instantly.

YouTube is pretty darn slow as well, and the new TiVo search beta is so slow as to be unusable.

At this point, base on a few comments here and a comment on my YouTube video demonstrating the behavior (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servl...&v=8J0lD8A-k2E), I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and just say the Series 3 is a lemon, and since it's probably out of warranty, I'm screwed. At $800 for the darn thing, I'm not pleased. :-(

I suppose I should go through the motions of calling TiVo support and see what they have to say.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:43 AM   #297
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For me it's 5 seconds to load the application and less then a second to page my queue.
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Old 09-26-2009, 12:02 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by shiffrin View Post
I have a S3 and used to have a lot of problems with Netflix pausing, etc. I was using a wireless connection. I changed the wireless to a powerline adapter and since then my Netflix has worked perfectly. We have watched at least 5 shows from Netflix without any pausing and the quality is good.
Shows that have problems with the S3 don't pause or have quality issues, they simply don't play correctly. For example the audio/video will be out of sync or my "favorite" where it plays fine for a few seconds and then skips ahead a few minutes into the video and then plays fine, skips, plays, repeat.
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Old 09-26-2009, 12:06 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimPa View Post
The last time that I checked in on the Netflix feature, it seemed that certain TIVO models did just fine where the S3, the model that I have, continued to have problems.

Is that still pretty much the state of things for the S3?

By the way, I looked at the last couple of pages of post and its not clear in most of the post who has what model Tivo.
That's correct. The original S3 has different H.264 & WMV decoder hardware & firmware and is not as robust as the THD units. Despite numerous reports of problem shows to both Tivo and Netflix (by me and I assume at least some others experiencing the problem) the problem shows never seem to get fixed so it would seem that neither Tivo or Netflix have an interest if fixing the problems for original S3 owners.
I have to resort to playing those shows on my laptop instead of via S3.
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Old 09-26-2009, 12:13 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Distortedloop View Post
At this point, base on a few comments here and a comment on my YouTube video demonstrating the behavior (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servl...&v=8J0lD8A-k2E), I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and just say the Series 3 is a lemon, and since it's probably out of warranty, I'm screwed. At $800 for the darn thing, I'm not pleased. :-(

I suppose I should go through the motions of calling TiVo support and see what they have to say.
I still believe you have some kind of network or server related issue, but without another test reference point such as you having another TiVo to test with or trying a different ISP there's no way to tell for sure. I highly doubt it's cache related since HME applications don't cache, at least not on the client (TiVo box) side.

All signs point to either a communication issue with the TiVo servers or a problem with TiVo server itself. There's nothing that makes me believe your S3 is malfunctioning since the Netflix, YouTube, TiVo Search, etc apps all run on the TiVo Servers. Your TiVo is just acting as a dumb terminal.
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