TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2008, 08:58 PM   #1
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Tivo+Netflix=worst implementation ever

Did ANYONE test this?

Forget that it seems to perform FAr worse than an xbox (huh?), but it has crashed my series3 about 4 times in 10 attempts. This last time- I had to reboot the tivo 5 times for it to get past "Almost there."

Also found it comical that a google search reveals a support link on tivo for "series3 freezing at Almost there" ,but now the page cant be found.

Terrible Tivo, absolutely terrible.

One more buggy item that has made me regret being an early adopter of the series3 hd.
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 09:11 PM   #2
drew00001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 311
Huh? Works without issue on both my Tivos, one S3 and one HD.
drew00001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 09:59 PM   #3
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew00001 View Post
Huh? Works without issue on both my Tivos, one S3 and one HD.
whoops. must be fine then.

Oh wait....
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2008, 10:12 PM   #4
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,048
Really odd - works great on both my HD and S3.

Just spitballing... How is your internet connection? Do you think you could be dropping packets?
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 12:36 AM   #5
mikesown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 84
My main complaint with the Netflix app is the fact that it's hosted remotely(this is true of Amazon and most other external apps on the tivo). This is a horrible design choice in my opinion(Tivo, you should be ashamed of yourself!). Designing the app to run natively without a VM would make much more sense and would make the app a LOT faster, since internet requests would be minimized to running searches, getting queue data and displaying video - it wouldn't require an internet request for every button press.

And, as long as we're at it, on my THD(which runs in 480i over component in 4:3 mode) the menus on the external applications are distorted(such as "please wait").

I have a very good internet connection, but it still takes a good 1-2 seconds to register a button press when using Netflix.
mikesown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 06:07 AM   #6
kevinivey
Registered User
 
kevinivey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 77
I do not have any delays ,and HD playback is good. My connection is 2 up and 10 down.
kevinivey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 06:24 AM   #7
RoyK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,506
I currently have 2 HDs on the same wired network - both with V11 software. Both subscribed both to TiVo and Netflix. One works fine with Netflix, the other crashes to a gray screen every time I try to view something from my Netflix instant queue.
RoyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 10:05 AM   #8
bru_man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 33
Netflix works great for me, Have you considered that you might have a bad Tivo? getting stuck at almost there and random crashing sounds like a bad hard disk or memory?
You know how how electronics are they generally fail with in the first week or run for years.
bru_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 10:41 AM   #9
gqkull
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10
I figured out one thing. You cannot watch movies at the same time on 2 systems. Bandwidth is there for one only. I am on Roadrunner turbo with like 15 MB down, and I still have issues with 2 systems trying to do shows at the same time...
gqkull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 10:52 AM   #10
Mindflux
TiVowned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post
whoops. must be fine then.

Oh wait....
Works on my THD, no probs. So it's not just one person having good experiences.

Mindflux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:08 AM   #11
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,476
I've had a few lockups but I would not say it's the worst ever. You are a bit out of line with that. I'm sure that they tested but just missed the fact that some people have different internet connections that possibly can't handle the load.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post
Did ANYONE test this?

Forget that it seems to perform FAr worse than an xbox (huh?), but it has crashed my series3 about 4 times in 10 attempts. This last time- I had to reboot the tivo 5 times for it to get past "Almost there."

Also found it comical that a google search reveals a support link on tivo for "series3 freezing at Almost there" ,but now the page cant be found.

Terrible Tivo, absolutely terrible.

One more buggy item that has made me regret being an early adopter of the series3 hd.

magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:10 AM   #12
shaun-ohio
shaun
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: zanesville, ohio
Posts: 101
have no problems with mine on my series 3 hd
shaun-ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:20 AM   #13
Mindflux
TiVowned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
I've had a few lockups but I would not say it's the worst ever. You are a bit out of line with that. I'm sure that they tested but just missed the fact that some people have different internet connections that possibly can't handle the load.
The quality meter will and can change if your connection is shaky. I had one movie start at 10 bars (I think there's 11) and it paused for a moment and dropped to 8 bars to stream properly. They obviously thought of varying connectivity with this feature.
Mindflux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:20 AM   #14
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindflux View Post
Works on my THD, no probs. So it's not just one person having good experiences.
lol.... i wasnt inferring that either. But if you look around here - you will see a multitude of threads on netflix.

I have a 8mbps link, with pretty solid connections. 5 tivos on the network - 1 wired, 4 wireless.

But even if if my internet was flaky or slower speed- crashing to a point where a reboot is required is absolutely terrible design for a dropped net connection. I cant imagine anyone who would disagree?

Im also disappointed that my xbox360 seems to handle this netflix business much more smoothly. Tivo (as a purpose-built tv/video box) should be embarrassed....
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 11:24 AM   #15
Mindflux
TiVowned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

Im also disappointed that my xbox360 seems to handle this netflix business much more smoothly. Tivo (as a purpose-built tv/video box) should be embarrassed....
Sorry, your xbox is nothing more than a PC in a small shell. It's got horsepower (high end cpu) and much more memory (RAM). The fact that the TiVo uses a Broadcom CPU and relies pretty much solely on the tuner card gpu(or cpus) to display a solid picture with no stuttering gives reason to believe that there may be kinks to work out launching a remote java application off a Netflix server to be a bit shaky especially within the first few weeks of launch. Java, is very CPU intensive for whatever reason.. and the TiVo doesn't have much of one to begin with.
Mindflux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 02:43 PM   #16
bluetex
Wha?
 
bluetex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 448
I'd say it's not the worst implementation ever. I will also say it isn't as good as the netflix : xbox360 implementation.
__________________
2 x 648 TiVo Series 3 - Lifetime
bluetex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 02:58 PM   #17
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindflux View Post
Sorry, your xbox is nothing more than a PC in a small shell. It's got horsepower (high end cpu) and much more memory (RAM). The fact that the TiVo uses a Broadcom CPU and relies pretty much solely on the tuner card gpu(or cpus) to display a solid picture with no stuttering gives reason to believe that there may be kinks to work out launching a remote java application off a Netflix server to be a bit shaky especially within the first few weeks of launch. Java, is very CPU intensive for whatever reason.. and the TiVo doesn't have much of one to begin with.
sorry?

No need to apologize- I'll leave that to TiVo. :-)

Pointing out tiVo's weak hardware still doesnt excuse a shoddy design. Deciding to launch this remotely off the netflix site may have been a poor choice.

Tivo Fanboys- have at it, but I still stand behind criticizing my $800 tivo hd being put to shame by my $250 xbox ....for watching a tv show! Comical.
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 03:10 PM   #18
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
I've had a few lockups but I would not say it's the worst ever. You are a bit out of line with that.

Let me explain why I think its THAT bad.

We had a storm knock out internet for a few hours the other day. As luck would have it- my kids were watching a streamed netflix movie.

The Tivo crashed and required a hard reset. However, since the tivo couldnt get onto the internet, it cannot complete the reboot when recovering from this netflix crash. Tv rendered useless by internet outage?

Network came back up, but I needed to recycle the wireless connection for the tivo.... So, tivo was unusable.... I evenutally figured this all out- but Tivo was ZERo help. For the "average joe" using tivo (or my wife and kids JUST trying to watch tv) this is a mess.

Granted this poor design is only exposed when a net connection drops- but its not like thats some incredibly rare possibility. Wasnt a net drop situation tested?

THAT is why I think its THAT bad. Im not even considering how much better the quality is across my xbox- just the absolutely terrible error recovery.
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 03:16 PM   #19
rocko
Cuckoo for TiVo
 
rocko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northeast Joisey
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post
sorry?

No need to apologize- I'll leave that to TiVo. :-)

Pointing out tiVo's weak hardware still doesnt excuse a shoddy design. Deciding to launch this remotely off the netflix site may have been a poor choice.

Tivo Fanboys- have at it, but I still stand behind criticizing my $800 tivo hd being put to shame by my $250 xbox ....for watching a tv show! Comical.
Not to be an apologist here but if I have zippo problems with my S3 and THD and others have major problems with essentially the same boxes what's the difference that causes the problem? Networks - ISP, routers, etc.

Doesn't fix the problem but gives us a direction in which to look.
__________________
Scully: "Is that a hound I hear baying in the moor ?"
Mulder: "No. That was a right-cheek sneak."

P4XL x 2 - Lifetime
P - Lifetime
HD - 1TB WD10EVVS - Lifetime
rocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 04:11 PM   #20
ZeoTiVo
I can't explain
 
ZeoTiVo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 25,523
some may simply be saying that "worst implementation ever" is overstating the issues. If no one was reporting good performance than that is one thing but I hav seen plenty of working great for me mixed in.

In testing any app like this there are numerous parts that will vary based on where the end use is and what they use. TiVo has a beta program you can sign up for so I would think they tested this - but can you get enough volunteers to cover all the areas and all the ways things are configured? Most likely not.

Also the business side most likely was pushing to have this out before Christmas shoppers made choices. Netflix may have been holding TiVo to some time frame as well.

In the history of software releases there have been numerous 1.0 versions that people look on with dismay. Routinely, most smart IT shops would never use the latests Microsoft OS until at least the first Service pack is out for it.

so I find this far from the "worst implementation ever" and after seeing different userids saying basically the same thing am starting to wonder where all this over the top hyperbole is in fact coming from.
__________________
You just need to disable your sense of shame for all humanity and click past the break
ZeoTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 04:23 PM   #21
thespacepope72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 71
OP, you are wrong, TiVo + Rhapsody = Worst implementation ever.

Rhapsody has been on TiVo for over a year and it still only works right part of the time.
thespacepope72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 05:39 PM   #22
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post

so I find this far from the "worst implementation ever" and after seeing different userids saying basically the same thing am starting to wonder where all this over the top hyperbole is in fact coming from.
I was referring to worst from Tivo.... Ive certainly lived through worse from other technology companies (pre-warp os/2, most windows versions that start with 3, etc).

Again, it earns my worst rating by offering a minor addon which can render the tivo unusable based on ones internet connection. If there's a more dumb rollout from tivo- let me know what it is....

Tivo has finally ackowledged this problem, so those trying to challenge whether its out there are wasting their breath... the simple fact that its worked fine for SOME SOFAR is not the correct test :-)

As an extreme example (always love beating old car analogies), there were plenty of people who's old 70's GM pickup trucks didnt explode from side collisions, but this didnt mean everything was ok! :-)

(Now the GM AND Tivo fanboys/apologists can band together in a shrill duet to defend this design flaw/bug)
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 07:36 PM   #23
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethjvm View Post
OP, you are wrong, TiVo + Rhapsody = Worst implementation ever.

Rhapsody has been on TiVo for over a year and it still only works right part of the time.
I was just about to post that. Netflix is rock solid compared to the sorry excuse for an application that is the current Rhapsody software.

Also, those who complain about the app being hosted remotely, this is NOT the problem in and of itself. It's no different than, say, a web browser, which also executes the majority of code remotely when using a website.
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 08:56 PM   #24
TolloNodre
En Fuego
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post
lol.... i wasnt inferring that either. But if you look around here - you will see a multitude of threads on netflix.
If you were already aware of the 'multitude' of threads about this issue, why did you waste everyone's time making yet another one?
TolloNodre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 09:28 PM   #25
web1b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post
Did ANYONE test this?

Forget that it seems to perform FAr worse than an xbox (huh?), but it has crashed my series3 about 4 times in 10 attempts. This last time- I had to reboot the tivo 5 times for it to get past "Almost there."

Also found it comical that a google search reveals a support link on tivo for "series3 freezing at Almost there" ,but now the page cant be found.

Terrible Tivo, absolutely terrible.

One more buggy item that has made me regret being an early adopter of the series3 hd.

It is bad.

I have had Netflix on the system for a couple weeks and I tested it out for a few minutes by putting movies in the instant queue and playing a few minutes of each movie and it seemed fine.

I finally got around to sit down and watch an entire movie tonight and the system is unusable for watching Netflix movies. About 1 hour into the movie, the entire system froze and the remote could not do anything.
I had to cut power to the Tivo by turning off the surge protector so the Tivo could reset.
This has never happened with any other aspect of the Tivo. Amazon Unbox movies worked fine. Only Netflix service has this horrendous problem.
I have a fast cable modem internet connection ranging from 8Mb to 19Mb speeds.
The movie does not stutter or drop frames from a slow connection. The entire Tivo locked up completely.
web1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2008, 09:59 PM   #26
lowepg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by TolloNodre View Post
If you were already aware of the 'multitude' of threads about this issue, why did you waste everyone's time making yet another one?
flash! new feature in the forums- you dont have to read OR respond to a thread that doesnt interest you!

unconfused?
lowepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:16 PM   #27
Fab2004
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
I have a Series 3 and I use Netflix daily to play shows and movies for kids.
I have seen problems, but IMO they are not with Tivo's implementation, but rather with the encoding of some shows. I.E. certain shows/movies work perfectly (and they do 100% of the times) other ones don't.
I have comcast cable, only 8M down -- I think tivo's implementation is perfectly fine.
Fab2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:25 PM   #28
web1b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab2004 View Post
I have a Series 3 and I use Netflix daily to play shows and movies for kids.
I have seen problems, but IMO they are not with Tivo's implementation, but rather with the encoding of some shows. I.E. certain shows/movies work perfectly (and they do 100% of the times) other ones don't.
I have comcast cable, only 8M down -- I think tivo's implementation is perfectly fine.
I saw one person post here that his Tivo occasionally locked up playing Netflix movies, but he thought that was no big deal.
It is a big deal especially when a Tivo takes so long to restart.
Completely freezing and locking up to the point of need to unplug the unit to restart it when all you are doing is watching the programming as designed is not perfectly fine.

I don't know what you mean by "only" 8M down when that is well above average broadband speed and much more than fast enough to meet the requirements where this service is supposed to work properly. People on faster connections like Verizon FIOS and other fiber services are a very small fraction of the people online.

Last edited by web1b : 12-26-2008 at 02:31 PM.
web1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:34 PM   #29
Brainiac 5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Columbia, MD, USA
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab2004 View Post
I have comcast cable, only 8M down -- I think tivo's implementation is perfectly fine.
Well, I love my TiVo but I have to admit that we know it's not perfectly fine. Apparently losing your network connection while viewing Netflix can cause the TiVo to lock up. That's not a problem with the encoding of the program; it's a problem with the TiVo software. And I agree with web1b, that's a big deal - what if you're recoding something? You're going to miss part of it when you reboot.
Brainiac 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:36 PM   #30
pmrowley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 84
Personally, I would agree with the OP. Any piece of software that forces me to have to hard reset my Tivo box after it glitches out, because the entire system has frozen solid, has no place on a box that is supposed to be running 24x7.

I find NetFlix on Tivo completely useless right now, because the ONLY time we will risk watching a NetFlix stream is when we know FOR SURE that Tivo isn't about to start recording, isn't in the middle of recording something, or isn't going to be recording anything in the next several hours, just in case NetFlix glitches out and we have to hard-reset the box a couple of times to get it running again. Of course, that means we're basically never in a safe window to watch NetFlix.

My S3 has been rock-solid since I bought it 2 years ago. Zero issues other than a forced divorced external drive due to a flaky external power supply. I've upgraded it to 2 TB, and it's wired to a network switch with plenty of internet bandwidth to spare. Since NetFlix hit this box, I've had to unplug it more times in 2 weeks than I had in the entire time I've owned the unit.

That's super that other people haven't experienced issues yet, like a hard-lock that interrupts a recording that was only showing one time all season, or one that the resultant power-cycle ends up killing one of the drives. But from the evidence on the forums, it might only be a matter of time until NetFlix kills your machine too...
pmrowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |