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Old 12-11-2008, 09:33 PM   #1
dlee0708
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Service Unavailable with TurboNet

My mom's S1 SVR2000 Tivo internal modem has died as well as a few years later an external modem, so I finally put in the Turbonet a few months back and got it all working after running cable and etc. It worked fine and now all of a sudden it gets Service Unavailable when trying to make a daily call.

It is connected to a Netgear router and the light on the router for the Tivo is green indicating it at least has some connectivity to the router. I had her from her computer connect to the netgear router (thru IE) and look at the attached devices and the only device attached was her computer (it had been a while since the Tivo had tried to connect). I then had her try to make a daily call and then checked the Netgear attached devices and it showed

IP address / Device Name / MAC
192.168.1.3 / - / 00:0b:ad:32:12:1f
192.168.1.4 / Mainpc / 00:1b:b9:d1:79:af

From the Forums the 00:0b:ad:xx:xx:xx is the TurboNet so it at least is able to send packets to the router. I had her ping 192.168.1.3 and it replies just fine. I don't have any of the TCP hacks on the Tivo, so I can't have her telnet into it or anything.

I also found in the forum one person said that they re-entered the ,#401 dialing prefix and it started working for them. I had her try that and still no luck. I told her to just occasionally try the Daily Call to see if it would sometime connect because many people have been saying they have had intermittent problems. I have also had her power it down and back up.

When she does attempt a Daily Call it takes like 4 minutes or so for it to fail. It just sits there on Connecting forever and then finally a few minutes later fail.

Any ideas on what is going on. I live 10 hours away from her and have to do everything remotely and having her take the Tivo apart is not an option.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:30 AM   #2
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Try a cold reboot of everything in sequence. Unplug the NetGear & TiVo, wait at least 30 seconds. Plug in the Netgear and wait a few minutes for it to fully boot up and the activity lights stabilize. Plug in the TiVo and try forcing a daily call. If it still fails try restarting the TiVo again before giving up.

My old SVR-2000s with TurboNet cards sometimes get cranky if the router reboots and they get a new IP address, but a few restarts usually clears everything up. Since opening the box and reseating the TurboNet card isn't an option you could also try switching to a different port on the Netgear if nothing else works.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:20 AM   #3
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My SVR-2000 w/TurboNet started this last week

It starts the web conversation, authorizes the account number, sets the clock, then dies requesting the service data download. Test calls succeed, but actual service data downloads fail. There is no networking problem, because I can ping the TiVo IP address directly from the TiVo's bash prompt continuously.

I have opened the TiVo, removed and re-seated the TurboNet card, and even cleared and deleted everything thinking it might be an MFS database problem of some kind. Obviously, I have forced a cold restart of the TiVo when I removed the power before pulling the TurboNet card.


I suspect Tivo's web servers are being overloaded and failing to respond, but I have no way of confirming or documenting this issue. If someone could provide the name of a current slice file, we could attempt a wget of it and see what happens....
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:17 PM   #4
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I suspect Tivo's web servers are being overloaded and failing to respond, but I have no way of confirming or documenting this issue. If someone could provide the name of a current slice file, we could attempt a wget of it and see what happens....
BZZZZT!! Wrong answer. It appears my ISP may be using a transparent proxy that introduces problems with the communications between Tivo's servers and my Tivo. Google for 'TiVo transparent proxy' and you'll find a plethora of information. I now suspect my ISP (bellsouth/att) may have upgraded or replaced a proxy server and lost a previous workaround for this issue.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:57 AM   #5
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Now I notice that other Series 1 owners are reporting similar Service Unavailable or Call Interrupted issues in these threads:

11/11/2008 Series 1 not downloading data

12/13/2008 Series 1 not downloading data

So, is there something (besides Series 1 age? ) that's causing these problems?
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Old 12-13-2008, 04:41 PM   #6
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Same issue here. Mine stopped downloading on 12/3. Yet, like you, I found the network in my home not to be the issue. Curious that some modem users are having a similar issue. My S1 has been downloading succesfully for years. Maybe they're trying to force me to move my grandfathered lifetime to a new HD box for the holidays.
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:39 PM   #7
dlee0708
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Service Unavailable with TurboNet (last successful download: 12/3)

Quote:
Same issue here. Mine stopped downloading on 12/3. Yet, like you, I found the network in my home not to be the issue. Curious that some modem users are having a similar issue. My S1 has been downloading succesfully for years. Maybe they're trying to force me to move my grandfathered lifetime to a new HD box for the holidays.
I find that very interesting. I did not say when my mom's Tivo stopped downloading, take a guess when the last successful download was? It was 12/3.

And yes, my mother has lifetime service also.

Where does yours stop, my mom's never gets past connecting and takes like 5 minutes to fail, where is yours failing? Also what ISP do you have? I've seen a lot of posts on other forums about some ISPs using transparent proxies causing a problem because the Tivo uses a strange or not typical http GET and some of these proxies don't understand the requests. My mom lives 60 miles south of St. Louis MO. and has sbcglobal DSL which is now AT&T.

Last edited by dlee0708 : 12-14-2008 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Updated location
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:42 AM   #8
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Same issue here

My Series1 TiVo's also stopped downloading updates on 12/3 but my TiVo HD is not having any problems. I switched the S1's over to phone and they were able to update after a couple of tries. I have AT&T DSL in Columbus, OH.

Mojo

Last edited by mojomba : 12-14-2008 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:44 AM   #9
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Just adding a data point...

Both of my SVR-2000s with TurboNet cards are updating flawlessly, and I use SBC (now AT&T) DSL in Houston.
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dlee0708 View Post
I find that very interesting. I did not say when my mom's Tivo stopped downloading, take a guess when the last successful download was? It was 12/3.

And yes, my mother has lifetime service also.

Where does yours stop, my mom's never gets past connecting and takes like 5 minutes to fail, where is yours failing? Also what ISP do you have? I've seen a lot of posts on other forums about some ISPs using transparent proxies causing a problem because the Tivo uses a strange or not typical http GET and some of these proxies don't understand the requests. My mom lives 60 miles south of St. Louis MO. and has sbcglobal DSL which is now AT&T.
Mine fails in exactly the same way. However, I pulled my new Tivo HD from the other room and plugged it into the same port and it downloads flawlessly. I'm not saying that the Series 1 and the HD download the same way, but I would think that if an HD can download from the same port that the problem lies far outside of my home and even beyond my ISP.
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by WBragg View Post
Mine fails in exactly the same way. However, I pulled my new Tivo HD from the other room and plugged it into the same port and it downloads flawlessly. I'm not saying that the Series 1 and the HD download the same way, but I would think that if an HD can download from the same port that the problem lies far outside of my home and even beyond my ISP.
It could be that the S1's software is using unusual http GET requests that some transparent proxies can't understand and your newer TivoHd uses typical http GET requests.

What ISP do you have. All the ones that have failed on 12/3 so far are all using AT&T DSL.

There is one guy in Houston with AT&T DSL and is is not having any problems with his S1s, but it could be a regional thing.

Just trying to get all the info I can to figure out where the problem is.
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Old 12-15-2008, 10:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dlee0708 View Post
It could be that the S1's software is using unusual http GET requests that some transparent proxies can't understand and your newer TivoHd uses typical http GET requests.

What ISP do you have. All the ones that have failed on 12/3 so far are all using AT&T DSL.

There is one guy in Houston with AT&T DSL and is is not having any problems with his S1s, but it could be a regional thing.

Just trying to get all the info I can to figure out where the problem is.
I'm using BrightHouse networks broadband in Sanford (Orlando area) Florida. The ISP may be Roadrunner, but I think BrightHouse lets you choose. I don't really use any of the ISP services like email, DNS, etc, so I'm not really sure who is providing the basic service other than BrightHouse.

It's kind of curious though that people from these various areas of the country would be having the same problem at about the same time. I could understand it if we were all going through some AT&T proxy somewhere because we were all using AT&T DSL or whatever, but this is pretty diverse.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:51 PM   #13
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Update

I plugged in another S1 TiVo I have that has not been connected for months and successfully updated via network but it has not connected successfully since then. I wonder if there is a software update or setting it received that is causing this issue.

Also it turns out one of my other S1's did not actually update when I was connected via phone. It got to the Downloading stage and sat there for about 10 minutes and then failed with the error "Call Interrupted" I have turned off call waiting and have attempted to connect at least 10 times with the same result. So I can do successful test calls all day long but the daily call never actually finished the download.

TiVo certainly won't support the turbonet download but I will let you know what they say when I call in about the phone issue.
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Old 12-15-2008, 09:14 PM   #14
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Same Problem in NY

Hi:

My Phillip Tivo Series 1 with turbonet card and lifetime subscription started failing on 12/3/08. Modem functions but fails as well so I doubt it is a proxy issue as mentioned in earlier posts My tivo is connected to Verizon Fios.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:04 AM   #15
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I went so far as dropping the MTU on my TurboNet card from 1500 (default) to 1492 (my router) and using Wireshark (formerly Ethereal) to eavesdrop on the downloads. You can observe the TiVo performing all the necessary connection, sign-on, and data exchanges successfully. It always fails at the same point: transferring the service logs zip archive from my Tivo back to the TiVo server. It sends the information then never receives a response from the TiVo server again.

I'm on AT&T (BellSouth FastAccess) in Charlotte, NC, by the way....
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:08 AM   #16
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Good Info Keith,

I talked to TiVo support about my phone issue and they did admit that they have been having "Phone Issues" over the past couple of weeks but didn't give me any specifics. This of course may have nothing to do with our turbonet issues.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:13 PM   #17
dlee0708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csasse View Post
Hi:

My Phillip Tivo Series 1 with turbonet card and lifetime subscription started failing on 12/3/08. Modem functions but fails as well so I doubt it is a proxy issue as mentioned in earlier posts My tivo is connected to Verizon Fios.
I think (and could be wrong), even if using a Modem it could still be a proxy issue because I believe the modems just make a PPP connection to some provider and they become regular TCP/IP HTTP:Get requests somewhere along the line and as long as there is a proxy between the conversion of the data and the endpoint it could still be a problem.

I have a feeling that if this doesn't get fixed in the next couple of days, we are going to see a flurry of posts.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #18
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The initial flurry is already here. Problems began 12/2 or 12/3, and it's now 12/16. After two weeks, guide data runs out and people begin receiving messages and seeing warnings on their television screens. The real question is, how many people are still actively using Series 1 units with networking? I suspect it's a larger number than people know, but only Tivo, 9thTee, SiliconDust, etc might be able to tell us.
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #19
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Having the issue described

I'm having the issue described (can't verify it started on 12/3, but that sounds right). I don't have a turbonet card, but I use a serial connection to a PC, and then use PPP connection (i think). it's been so long since I set it up, and it's worked flawlessly for years.

I also have ATT/Bellsouth, Fiber DSL in Atlanta.

I can watch the terminal services window, and it both sends and receives packets-- but eventually failes with Service Unavailable after 4-5 minutes. I can't even make successful test calls.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #20
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It seems like to me the overwhelming majority of people with problems are people who have AT&T as their Internet Service Provider. I think there is a good chance its AT&T putting in a transparent proxy that doesn't like the strange HTTP request headers that the Tivo Software sends.

Last edited by dlee0708 : 12-16-2008 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee0708 View Post
It seems like to me the overwhelming majority of people with problems are people who have AT&T as their Internet Service Provider. I think there is a good chance its AT&T putting in a transparent proxy that doesn't like the strange HTTP request headers that the Tivo Software sends.
It's happenning both to people with a TurboNet card, as well as people using the built-in modem over a phone line. My sister's series 1 TiVo uses dial-up, and it hasn't had a successful download since December 10th.

I think that rules out AT&T's ISP service as being the cause.

Also, it's clearly happenning to enough people that it's not a hardware failure with the series 1 TiVos. And since it happens both for TurboNet and dail-up users, it's not specific to the TurboNet or some isolated issue with somebody's network or modem connection. Based on this thread and the other two on the same subject, this is clearly an issue with the TiVo service supporting the series 1 boxes.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:00 PM   #22
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Same Problem in TX (ISP = Verizon FiOS)

Quote:
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Hi:

My Phillip Tivo Series 1 with turbonet card and lifetime subscription started failing on 12/3/08. Modem functions but fails as well so I doubt it is a proxy issue as mentioned in earlier posts My tivo is connected to Verizon Fios.
My Series1 w/ TurboNet stopped working on 12/2 at 1:04pm.

I haven't tried hooking up the external modem I had been using prior to purchasing the TurboNet (internal modem is fried).

Obviously Tivo changed something. It's the only common element in everyone's complaint.

EDIT 7:33pm:
I just hooked up the external Sportster to try dial-up and I get more or less the same thing. The modem connects, they start to handshake, but I never see a steady transfer start (as would be noticed by the usual constant receive light on the modem). The dial-up session eventually times out with a Service Unavailable message.

I'm calling this one TiVo's fault.
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Last edited by QBiN : 12-16-2008 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Updated information.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:02 PM   #23
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There are probably six or more threads on this very issue right now on this forum alone. There is even one over on DDB. Coincidence I think not.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:06 PM   #24
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I went so far as dropping the MTU on my TurboNet card from 1500 (default) to 1492 (my router) and using Wireshark (formerly Ethereal) to eavesdrop on the downloads. You can observe the TiVo performing all the necessary connection, sign-on, and data exchanges successfully. It always fails at the same point: transferring the service logs zip archive from my Tivo back to the TiVo server. It sends the information then never receives a response from the TiVo server again.
NICE CATCH Keith! I can always appreciate someone who knows their way around a sniffer dump.

We all need to start calling TiVo and politely demand answers.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:29 PM   #25
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It's happenning both to people with a TurboNet card, as well as people using the built-in modem over a phone line. My sister's series 1 TiVo uses dial-up, and it hasn't had a successful download since December 10th.

I think that rules out AT&T's ISP service as being the cause.

Also, it's clearly happenning to enough people that it's not a hardware failure with the series 1 TiVos. And since it happens both for TurboNet and dail-up users, it's not specific to the TurboNet or some isolated issue with somebody's network or modem connection. Based on this thread and the other two on the same subject, this is clearly an issue with the TiVo service supporting the series 1 boxes.
I disagree it rules out AT&T's ISP being the problem. If it was something done at Tivo, then why are some S1 Turbonet Tivo's working fine (and the majority of these have non-AT&T ISPs). The reason your sister's dialup S1 may not be working is because it still may be hitting a transparent proxy somewhere. Her Tivo is not dialing direct to Tivo, its still hitting the Internet (not positive of this, but I bet it does, it would be the most cost-effective way of getting there).

I am not saying I am positive it's AT&T transparent proxies, but I sure can't pin it on Tivo and there sure are a lot of people here who have a AT&T ISP service.

Last edited by dlee0708 : 12-16-2008 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:28 PM   #26
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Does anyone who has a S1 TurboNet Tivo that can't connect have a neighbor or someone with a different ISP provider that you could take it to their place and see if it could connect. I think that would be real informative. In my case it's my mother's Tivo and she lives 600 miles from me and currently she is gone for the holidays so she can't do it (in fact, even if she was there, I doubt she could do it, I asked her if she could send it to me and she said she would rather wait till I get up there sometime next year than have to try and pull it out of the cabinet).
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:44 PM   #27
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it's not AT&T, I'm on comcast and have the exact same problems. Like everyone else last successful call was on or around 12/4. Series 1 tivo with tivonet, doing a test call shows "service unavailable"
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:52 PM   #28
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I don't have/use AT&T. Unless of course, TW/BrightHouse is using AT&T on the backside somewhere as the real provider. I see no evidence of this on a traceroute out. I think a lot of people are reporting that they are using AT&T as their ISP because, well, AT&T is all over the place after having bought out Bell South and SouthWestern Bell.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:31 PM   #29
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When BellSouth was managing the Southeastern US area, they routed everything through Level3.net. Although Level3 had their share of occasional problems, they were never a TiVo problem. Now that it's AT&T, when I used traceroute from my TiVo with various port numbers, every request was routed through multiple hops owned by xo.net, who appears to be a newer network provider. Anyone know anything about them? History, who they were, where they came from? Maybe they're the NSA snooping on what we're all watching and downloading?
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:49 PM   #30
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Now that it's AT&T, when I used traceroute from my TiVo with various port numbers, every request was routed through multiple hops owned by xo.net, who appears to be a newer network provider.
XO is a competitive local exchange carrier and ISP. As far as their ISP operations (BGP AS2828) are concerned, they are a Tier2 ISP with a large nationwide network that is fairly well-connected to other Tier1/Tier2 internet peers. They've been around many years and are not a new player.

I'm not aware they use any proxies.

Keith, what's the IP the S1 uses to contact Tivo? I'd like to run the same traceroute to see if I go through XO as well.
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