Requires a CableCARD decoder?????

[healimonster]

Hello
Tivo series one owner here who has long since left his tivo behind due to low (no) start up costs and availabilty of HD DVRs from the cable compainies a few years ago.

I am happy to say I am considering a return to the tivo foray. I just moved and left my the hd goodness of directv behind.

I now live in a building that time warner cable services and the free cable that gets pumped into the apartment is pretty good. All the local chanels in HD, HD TNT, TBS, A&E, Bravo, etc. This would be enough cable entertainment to keep me happy if it was able to harness it with an HD Tivo.

Can the tivo HD process/find/record unscrambled digital and HD channels without a cablecard decoder??

Obviously I am not going to get chanels that are scrambled or channels that my TV can't receive right now, but will tivo know that TBS is channel 54-203 whatever?

On the "which tivo is right for me" page it states that Tivo HD ...
"Requires a CableCARD decoder from your cable company to receive digital and HD TV"
Is that factual, my TV does not have a cablecard and it can receive digtal and HD TV, why can't Tivo HD?

[sinanju]

Originally Posted by healimonster

Can the tivo HD process/find/record unscrambled digital and HD channels without a cablecard decoder??

The short answer is this:

• The cable company publishes a channel lineup
• Stations like TBS are placed at channel numbers like 542
• Guide data is sent to your TiVo in terms of the published lineup
• CableCARDs map the channels, like 54-203, to their position in the lineup, like 542.

Without the cards, there is no mapping.

[LoREvanescence]

With out the mapping 1 of three things will happen.

Either the Tivo will place TBS on channel 0
Or more likely it will be located where it is actually located on the cable system which would result in a channel number such as 75-2.
For channels that also broadcast OTA, the TiVo will pick up their channel mapping. So for example, Fox 25 in Boston comes up as 25-1 when the actual channel location was 86-1 for the HD channel, and the analog was located on channel 13 and the digital HD version on 825(with a comcast box) on comcast's system.

Just to give you a heads up though, with out a cable card TBS is most likely encrypted and would require a cableCARD.

When I had my s3 hooked to comcast with no cableCARDS. The only digital channels I could get was the locals, abc, nbc, cbs, pbs, cw, fox, upn, cn8, necn, cbc, and ppv previews. The locals were both available in SD and HD.

However, that was it. Channels like TBS, Discovery, ESPN and what not, even in the SD format where encrypted and required a cableCard, all I could get was the analog channels.

If cableCARDS are available where you live, I would recommend looking into them.

[healimonster]

Originally Posted by LoREvanescence

Just to give you a heads up though, with out a cable card TBS is most likely encrypted and would require a cableCARD.

When I had my s3 hooked to comcast with no cableCARDS. The only digital channels I could get was the locals, abc, nbc, cbs, pbs, cw, fox, upn, cn8, necn, cbc, and ppv previews. The locals were both available in SD and HD.

However, that was it. Channels like TBS, Discovery, ESPN and what not, even in the SD format where encrypted and required a cableCard, all I could get was the analog channels.

If cableCARDS are available where you live, I would recommend looking into them.

For whatever reason TBS and TNT are in HD and not encrypted. I am was watching them on my TV without a cable box in HD last night (go sox!). Which is the main reason I am thinking that not paying for cable and going without a cable box or cablecard might be an option.

When you used your series 3 without a cable card were you able to set season passes for the HD channels that you did get like NBC and record shows without difficulty?

The possibility of ditching a 60+ dollar a month bill for cable is all too enticing for me to not investigate this.

I am assuming there are no financial savings or advantages to getting and using a cablecard. Meaning that if I would have to pay 60 dollars a month for cable with a cable box, switching to or using a cablecard is not going to change the amount I am billed (with the possible exception of maybe 5 dollars for the box lease)?

[LoREvanescence]

Originally Posted by healimonster

For whatever reason TBS and TNT are in HD and not encrypted. I am was watching them on my TV without a cable box in HD last night (go sox!). Which is the main reason I am thinking that not paying for cable and going without a cable box or cablecard might be an option.

When you used your series 3 without a cable card were you able to set season passes for the HD channels that you did get like NBC and record shows without difficulty?

The possibility of ditching a 60+ dollar a month bill for cable is all too enticing for me to not investigate this.

I am assuming there are no financial savings or advantages to getting and using a cablecard. Meaning that if I would have to pay 60 dollars a month for cable with a cable box, switching to or using a cablecard is not going to change the amount I am billed (with the possible exception of maybe 5 dollars for the box lease)?

If you get them with your tv, then yes you can get them with a Tivo, and they will be in the same location as they are on your TV.

As for season passes, there will be no guide data, so there for season passes are not possible. You can however set up a weekly, or daily manual recording for a certain channel and time.

In example for Fox 25 Boston, when I set up a manual recording for prison break it showed up in the NPL as "Rec: WFXT Fiber Feed 25-1 8:00 pm"
It hand the channel call sign because Comcast was passing along the OTA Mapping. For channels that don't pass along their own mapping it looks like this "Rec: 72 12:56 pm". TNT and TBS will not have their own mapping.

So you end up with a lot of stuff not in folders, that you may not remember what it is until you start watching it.

A capleCard is required for proper mapping and guide data. And the ability to set up season passes.

[sinanju]

Originally Posted by healimonster

When you used your series 3 without a cable card were you able to set season passes for the HD channels that you did get like NBC and record shows without difficulty?

Without CableCARDs an S3 or TiVo HD can use basic cable (analog) or over-the-air digital (including broadcast HD). That's it. You may be able to tune to other channels on the cable, but the TiVo will never fully function with them without cards.

[healimonster]

Thanks guys.
So I guess it would not work as well as I had hoped.
You probably just saved me 300 dollars.

But I would be able to set season passes for any shows that I get the program guide information for? I do get program info for the local channels for instance yesterday the TV was able to display "NFL Football" for the 4pm game on CBS in HD, but had no information for the Sox Angels game on TBS in digital.
I thought all the program guide information that tivo worked off of came from the tivo data network from dialing up to the tivo servers?

[LoREvanescence]

Originally Posted by healimonster

Thanks guys.
So I guess it would not work as well as I had hoped.
You probably just saved me 300 dollars.

But I would be able to set season passes for any shows that I get the program guide information for? I do get program info for the local channels for instance yesterday the TV was able to display "NFL Football" for the 4pm game on CBS in HD, but had no information for the Sox Angels game on TBS in digital.
I thought all the program guide information that tivo worked off of came from the tivo data network from dialing up to the tivo servers?

That is correct. However the data is for where the channels would be if they were mapped with cablecards. So with out the mapping, the guide data does not match.

Now, it is possible, but highly unlikely a few of your digital channels will map to the same position they would be with cablecards or a cable box. If this is the case some people have said the guide data can work. I'm not sure how though. As when I had my S3 set up for cable, no cablecards it did not download the guide data. So with that said, if you can set it up for cable with cablecards and the channel is on the same location where it would be with a cable card (Most often it is not) then the guide data would be good.

So check you cable line up, if your tv is picking the channel up in the same virtual channel number location as what the cable line up says, you have a shot.

The guide data for game information your tv was picking up was being sent out by your local channels. My tv can pick up a full day guide from OTA with out any box back when I had my TV hooked to both OTA and cable before I got my TiVo box, only like 2 months. I assume that same data gets passed in the cable system.

If its different, and either goes with OTA mapping or actual location such as 86-1 there is nothing you can do.

[moolman]

Before I got cable cards for my S3, I got all the programing guide for the anaolog channels since it would be as if I just didn't have a cable box. The HD channels which are on QAM, I would have to manually record every week. So if you can just do season passes for the analog channels but would do manual recordings of the HD channels.

[aaronwt]

Isn't it just easier to get the cable cards?
I have eight from FIOS. I'm not happy about the $24 a month I pay for them, but without them the TiVo is just a digital VCR. No point in getting a TiVo for that. I had a digital VCR for HD recordings back in 2001. The TiVo is many times better than that when utilized properly.

[lessd]

Originally Posted by LoREvanescence

If you get them with your tv, then yes you can get them with a Tivo, and they will be in the same location as they are on your TV.

As for season passes, there will be no guide data, so there for season passes are not possible. You can however set up a weekly, or daily manual recording for a certain channel and time.

In example for Fox 25 Boston, when I set up a manual recording for prison break it showed up in the NPL as "Rec: WFXT Fiber Feed 25-1 8:00 pm"
It hand the channel call sign because Comcast was passing along the OTA Mapping. For channels that don't pass along their own mapping it looks like this "Rec: 72 12:56 pm". TNT and TBS will not have their own mapping.

So you end up with a lot of stuff not in folders, that you may not remember what it is until you start watching it.

A capleCard is required for proper mapping and guide data. And the ability to set up season passes.

If the cable in your APT is analog and you can receive them on you TV tuner at normal numbers (2-99) than you should call TiVo as TiVo does do some custom mapping for some apt buildings in this situation, can't hurt to call them. If the mapping is the same as the cable co that delivers the cable to the building the TiVo may work out of the box without cable cards as it does on most cable systems IF you do not want any HD channels (or need ch 100 and up)

[JoeTaxpayer]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Isn't it just easier to get the cable cards?
I have eight from FIOS. I'm not happy about the $24 a month I pay for them, but without them the TiVo is just a digital VCR. No point in getting a TiVo for that. I had a digital VCR for HD recordings back in 2001. The TiVo is many times better than that when utilized properly.

I don't know how the FIOS guys accross the country charge, but Comcast will charge ($6.95+$1.50) for each 2 card TiVo or $6.95 to card a one card TiVo. That adds up fast. For my multiple machines I'm paying for the cards on the Family TV, but the other room can just transfer a show or watch the lineup that doesn't need cards (or outlets fees).

[jrm01]

Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer

I don't know how the FIOS guys accross the country charge, but Comcast will charge ($6.95+$1.50) for each 2 card TiVo or $6.95 to card a one card TiVo. That adds up fast. For my multiple machines I'm paying for the cards on the Family TV, but the other room can just transfer a show or watch the lineup that doesn't need cards (or outlets fees).

That is not what Comcast says on their web page:

http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq...s.ashx?Id=4156

Nor what I pay to Comcast. My first card is free and the second costs $1.50.

[ewilts]

Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer

I don't know how the FIOS guys accross the country charge, but Comcast will charge ($6.95+$1.50) for each 2 card TiVo or $6.95 to card a one card TiVo..

I don't pay anything for the 2 CableCARDs in my Series 3. Both were bundled for free with my Digital Starter package. This is not a promotion either - I've been paying the same (zero) for a couple of years now.

[jlib]

Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer

...but Comcast will charge ($6.95+$1.50) for each 2 card TiVo or $6.95 to card a one card TiVo. That adds up fast. For my multiple machines I'm paying for the cards on the Family TV, but the other room can just transfer a show or watch the lineup that doesn't need cards (or outlets fees).

The original poster mentioned he has no current TiVo so there would be no additional outlet charge nor additional Cable Card charge from Comcast. The single Cable Card he needs would be free (in lieu of a convertor box) for a new TiVo HD. If you are getting charged an additional outlet fee for the first of your multiple TiVos you should be able to get that adjusted off.

[mrtim]

This is an interesting thread. I have a related question:

Right now I have a series 2 TiVo that is directly connected to an analog-only cable service (Comcast). We're planning an overall upgrade to an HD television and the required digital cable service to go with it, but I'm hoping to start slow. Step 1, it seems to me, is a TiVo HD.

My question is, how far do I need to go in that first step? Can I continue with plain old analog cable, or must I upgrade to digital cable and cablecards at the same time? My preference would be to stick with just analog until we get the HD TV, at which point it's clearly required . . . but will that work? Can I record two things at once with an analog only cable in?

[rainwater]

Originally Posted by mrtim

My question is, how far do I need to go in that first step? Can I continue with plain old analog cable, or must I upgrade to digital cable and cablecards at the same time? My preference would be to stick with just analog until we get the HD TV, at which point it's clearly required . . . but will that work? Can I record two things at once with an analog only cable in?

The TiVo HD works just fine with analog cable. It works just like a S2 DT except the recording quality is slightly better for analog cable with the TiVo HD compared to the S2s. I've used TiVo HDs on non HDTVs and it will work really well. Also, if you are close enough to your over-the-air towers, you can pickup the locals in digital quality with a small antenna. Even with a non hd tv, this will look really good and integrates with your cable channels in the guide.