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Old 10-01-2008, 02:03 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Trinitron View Post

I also agree that still charging £10 a month for the service is steep, given the lack of updates and patchy product support. I have a lifetime sub so to be honest I will just shrug off the suggestions bug and be grateful for the service I have had.

Just one final point. We are dealing with a US-based business mindset. Whinge all you want, but if enough monthly subscription payers pull out and go elsewhere (but to whom exactly? Where is the equivalent service?) then the bean counters in Alviso will definitely pull the plug on the UK IMHO. And that way no one wins.
So what you're saying then, is us mugs that for whatever reason never took out a lifetime sub, should continue paying our £10 per month, for a service which to varying degrees, depending who you ask, is less than it was a month ago, just so you guys with the lifetime sub can keep your TiVos running?

How about, anyone that's on a lifetime sub, and used their TiVO over 20 months, all start voluntarily paying a monthly sub again as well? That way it might encourage TiVo to renew their UK presence. At the very least it might counteract the amount of people that will now cancel their monthly subs (me more than likely being one of them, I've already got one dumb PVR, Sky HD, why would I want another one, TiVo?)
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:07 AM   #122
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Anyway, with this Nero system I might be back soon!
So do you already know something (perhaps wearing your Techradar hat) that you would perhaps like to share with the rest of us in the forum then?
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:53 AM   #123
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Agreed. Just a simple confirmation that the Nero solution is coming to the UK "soon" would start to calm people down.
Or a new Series 3 TiVo

Honestly, I believe TiVo have the technology sorted and are gearing up to expand into other European markets, so how hard would it be to give us a little hope here....?
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:03 AM   #124
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Or a new Series 3 TiVo

Honestly, I believe TiVo have the technology sorted and are gearing up to expand into other European markets, so how hard would it be to give us a little hope here....?
Agree PC software is not remotely interesting to me, but a proper new TiVo would be.

We all have ancient TiVo's simply because of TiVo continual refusal to re-enter the UK market. The opportunity is clearly there, but TiVo (for whatever reason) choose not to take it.

TiVo also have yet to make a proper announcement of the withdrawal of the suggestions functionality. Their customers' at least deserve a letter explaining it. Not everyone reads this forum.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:11 AM   #125
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Their customers' at least deserve a letter explaining it. Not everyone reads this forum.
Quite. Perhaps a TiVo 'email' message on a daily call.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:52 AM   #126
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Who says they "can't"? It's more likely that it's not practical for them to fix such a minor issue for a relatively small population of boxes that haven't been updated in.......how long? If most of those boxes are getting lifetime service at whatever price was available back then, they've stopped being a source of revenue long ago.
I pay monthly. That's a potential £120 for them in the next 12 months. I'm sure I'm not the last monthly subscriber affected.
Why can't it be "massaged" by TiVo before sending to the UK machines to re-use old IDs that only american audiences watch? I will admit to complete ignorance of the exact issue here, but on the other hand I spend a few weeks in 1999 solving the Y2K bug in some little-known Payroll application that ran on DOS and paid thousands of UK employees. It was old and messy but not impossible, even on my wage.
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:04 AM   #127
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I pay monthly. That's a potential £120 for them in the next 12 months. I'm sure I'm not the last monthly subscriber affected.
Why can't it be "massaged" by TiVo before sending to the UK machines to re-use old IDs that only american audiences watch? I will admit to complete ignorance of the exact issue here, but on the other hand I spend a few weeks in 1999 solving the Y2K bug in some little-known Payroll application that ran on DOS and paid thousands of UK employees. It was old and messy but not impossible, even on my wage.
To a certain extent I think that’s the crux of the problem, there will always be some way to fix the problem, after all it’s only IT.*

But the question is, “is there a business case”? What’s Tivo’s current income stream from the UK, do they actually make a profit from us at present? What would be lost in the less tangible benefits of not bothering to fix the problem, loss of brand trust and loyalty?

So would the costs of a fix actually weigh up against not bothering?

(*- Yes I do work in IT.)

Thanks
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:11 AM   #128
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But the question is, “is there a business case”? What’s Tivo’s current income stream from the UK, do they actually make a profit from us at present? What would be lost in the less tangible benefits of not bothering to fix the problem, loss of brand trust and loyalty?
The last point is the most crucial. If they plan to re-enter the UK market they either need to fix the current platform, or show us that we have an exit strategy onto their new system in preparation and could we just be a little patient.
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:49 AM   #129
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Agree PC software is not remotely interesting to me, but a proper new TiVo would be.

We all have ancient TiVo's simply because of TiVo continual refusal to re-enter the UK market. The opportunity is clearly there, but TiVo (for whatever reason) choose not to take it.
Hi,

I agree, a S/A TiVo would be fantastic, but in my last post I was trying to be realistic. A new TiVo would require a partner/s to produce the box and in these straightened times I just can not see a major electronics firm taking a punt on this, especially given a history of failure....whatever the reason for that failure. Let's not forget that 'big business' operates on a safety first basis and looks at the downside first before considering the upside.

I called for TiVopony to confirm the Nero tie up alone because of a couple of reasons;

1) The product has been announced
2) There is no need to get the buy-in of an unnamed third party manufacturer and TiVo could use their existing JV relationship to make a quick call to check if it is OK.

IF (a big if in my book) there are ongoing negotiations with a box supplier to build TiVo boxes for the UK/European market an early announcement could sabotage negotiations and in any event it just won't happen.

I was being realistic in calling for the confirmation of a product that with all things being even will happen.

This is a safe product launch for Nero with very little downside for them. It consists of an existing USB tuner dongle (No development costs) and existing software (maybe slightly altered). They probably have no upfront cost to TiVo, TiVo's end being the subscription paid after Nero have received the money so in a risk analysis situation this is a perfect product with very little downside save for advertising and product packaging. The only major cost will be translating the software for the European market so it's no major surprise to me that they are waiting till 2009 to launch. This way if it bombs they can quietly pull the plug on the Euro launch without having translation costs.

To take this a step further, I see that this announcement makes it even less likely that we will ever see a new S/A box for Europe. If TiVo can get someone else to launch, why would they bother themselves with the history of failure. Plus, Euro boxes work to a number of different transmission practices and have totally different connectors meaning in essence surely a completely new box. Unless I'm mistaken, the Aussie box differs from a US box only by which tuner is inside. No different connector layouts and certainly no language changes.

That is why I called for announcement of the PC product as I can see this as being the only way I will ever get my hands on a cutting edge TiVo UI.

Finally, (sorry for being so long) lets be honest. We will all be using a PC as a one box solution under the TV within 10 years anyway which is why I feel it is so important to get this announced now as I feel there is a very small window for this.

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Old 10-01-2008, 04:55 AM   #130
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Only just seen this thread..

Sad day indeed..

I see the UK Tivo site is still advertising for Subs with the suggestion feature in the online manual. I assume the tivo/sky agents probably have a script they read when signing up saying that some features are no longer???

Ahh well, will still stay loyal, and the box is going strong, and still offers the best interface and use for me anyway.... I only say this as I am lifetime, if I was still paying "£120 a year I would be seriously questioning this..
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:17 AM   #131
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Ahh well, will still stay loyal, and the box is going strong, and still offers the best interface and use for me anyway.... I only say this as I am lifetime, if I was still paying "£120 a year I would be seriously questioning this..
Which is exactly in the position I'm in. I love my TiVo, if I was on a lifetime sub, I'd be disappointed with the lack of suggestions, but I keep running the box because of the other excellent features. I'm not though, so it is costing me £120 per year.

Can anyone explain to me what I get for my £120 per year that I can't get from Digiguide for £4.99 per year?
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:26 AM   #132
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This is a safe product launch for Nero with very little downside for them. It consists of an existing USB tuner dongle (No development costs) and existing software (maybe slightly altered).
Better than that, as you will be able buy the software alone as a download including 1 years subs for $99

Just add your existing MCE supported (BDA drivers) tuners and remote and you are away.

Even doing a 1:1 translation for dollar to pound, £99 would get my money.

..and I could start selling small media PC's with it preinstalled for around £299
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:28 AM   #133
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Phew, with Vista, enough ram and quiet case? That's a tight margin.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:54 AM   #134
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Wouldn't be vista, and mce2005/freeview works fine on low spec hardware - if the pc is not doing anything else
- don't see why tivo/nero would be much different.

So can I sign you up for a pre-order ?
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:16 AM   #135
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Heh, yeah, except I built all my own PC's too. I even have a spare mini-itx machine here I tried before XBMC.

And I have a spare IR receiver from an MCE experiment, and a HTPC case, two digital terrestrial tuner cards.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:29 AM   #136
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Are you saying you think Tivo will be launching the Nero PC product in the UK with a UK EPG service? I thought we had previously ruled that out as unlikely.
Well, the EPG already exists, UK BDA video cards exist, it's a niche product which wouldn't require massive marketing or setting up distribution deals through DSG - I think it's a whole heap more likely than a standalone box.

And if it supports HD over DTT (which Media Center doesn't, and shows no signs of doing) then it would have a USP too!
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:32 AM   #137
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And if it supports HD over DTT (which Media Center doesn't, and shows no signs of doing) then it would have a USP too!
Haven't you been able to erect a 20 metre tower disguised as a dead tree to get a satellite signal yet at your far flung rural abode.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:41 AM   #138
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You've obviously never worked in a quality based company. Any change to systems would require a proper check and testing to see what impact it has. They should have discovered this problem before it went wild. It shouldn't be a case of Joe The Techie decides to make a change on a Friday afternoon, it's let loose, and causes problems. Proper processes should be in place.
I agree it should have been caught, but it's a pretty subtle bug which occurs in software six (?) versions out of date, and which presumably they can't easily test as they don't have a UK office to have a working (ie actually recording) UK TiVo set up in. It's not as if a UK TiVo crashes or indeed does anything you'd notice in a test bed when fed the new format data.

It also a fair bet that no-one there has the kind of familiarity with six-year-old software, untouched in the meantime, to be able to know that this one feature had been bodged to use TMSIDs when it's a design principle of TiVo that it DOESN'T use them for live database work.

I can see how this one slipped though, and I reckon it could have done so however "quality minded" you might be.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:41 AM   #139
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Haven't you been able to erect a 20 metre tower disguised as a dead tree to get a satellite signal yet at your far flung rural abode.
It would need to be taller than that!
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:47 AM   #140
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Quite. Perhaps a TiVo 'email' message on a daily call.
The TiVo messages are built-in templates triggered by a command; I don't think they have the ability to put any message they like up.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:49 AM   #141
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It would need to be taller than that!
You must have a very high piece of ground in between your house and Astra at 28 degrees East.

But anyhow I thought you were going to secrete it in one of the neighbour's hedges and then run cables from there.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:50 AM   #142
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Didn't they use a message to tell us about that survey where we all got the cool TiVo plushies? That surely wasn't a standard template, was it?
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:52 AM   #143
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You must have a very high piece of ground in between your house and Astra at 28 degrees East.
Or just tall trees nearby. Where we are, we've got a single point on the land where we can put the dish for a good line of sight with Astra 28.2E - right outside the kitchen window!
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:52 AM   #144
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Why can't it be "massaged" by TiVo before sending to the UK machines to re-use old IDs that only american audiences watch? .
Yes, I would think that would be a possible hack based solution. The difficulty would be knowing which TMSIDs were "safe" to use. Re-use a live one and the SPs would be messed up, recording the wrong things.

Of course exactly this happened a few weeks back if you recall - I wonder if that was the problem which caused them to change the TMSID format, or an attempt to carry on using the old one which went wrong?
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:56 AM   #145
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Yes, I would think that would be a possible hack based solution. The difficulty would be knowing which TMSIDs were "safe" to use. Re-use a live one and the SPs would be messed up, recording the wrong things.

Of course exactly this happened a few weeks back if you recall - I wonder if that was the problem which caused them to change the TMSID format, or an attempt to carry on using the old one which went wrong?
I still think Tivo may yet rethink their current corporate position that Suggestions in the UK cannot be saved now that they have begun to see the strength of feeling on the matter and the possible cross contamination of negative sentiment to the US Tivo user base.

Its not that it can't be done its just that they thought they could get away without bothering to sort it out without the Brits making too much fuss about it. Still upper lip and all that sort of think don't you know.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:57 AM   #146
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You must have a very high piece of ground in between your house and Astra at 28 degrees East.
It's all about the angle! There is a bank behind the house which rises from the back door to higher than the top of the roof in about 50 feet or so - properly steep. On top of this bank is a row of mature trees, each of which is taller than the house. Behind the trees is a footpath and the far side of the footpath has a very tall hedge, stopping me putting a dish on the far side of a tree.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:18 AM   #147
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Behind the trees is a footpath and the far side of the footpath has a very tall hedge, stopping me putting a dish on the far side of a tree.
Unless you dig up the footpath to lay the cable under and put the dish on the other side of the hedge. But that would take the permission and co-operation of the person owning that piece of land...........

I'm assuming the footpath is earth but if its concrete or tarmac then things are even more messy.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:24 AM   #148
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Unless you dig up the footpath to lay the cable under and put the dish on the other side of the hedge. But that would take the permission and co-operation of the person owning that piece of land...........

I'm assuming the footpath is earth but if its concrete or tarmac then things are even more messy.
Hedge is owned by Network Rail, so I can't help but think getting that permission could be long winded. Council probably wouldn't be that keen on my digging up thir footpath either!

To be honest, once I'd decided to abandon any sense of legality to my HD Bittrorrenting (have you seen the new Knight Rider? Hysterical!) The only thing I miss is live rugby union - and ITV4 have bought the highlights rights so even that is not too bad.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:40 AM   #149
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Wow - this thread is demonstrating something like bereavement. We've gone through denial, anger and are in hope. Next: acceptance.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:58 AM   #150
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For anyone who has not seen this:

New software turns PC into TiVo TV recorder

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/...ivo_for_the_pc

http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-introduction.html

Quote:
Joshua Danovitz, vice president and general manager of international business at TiVo, said the plan is to launch it in Europe next year.

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