TiVo Community The Free Space Indicator Thread
 View Poll Results: How Important is This to You? It's so important that I'd pay extra for it. 159 9.17% It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it. 1309 75.53% Not important, but I'd probably use it if it was free. 219 12.64% I'd probably never use it one way or the other. 46 2.65% Voters: 1733. You may not vote on this poll

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07-17-2002, 01:00 PM   #91
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
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New Math?????

Quote:
 Originally posted by phone1 19 to 1? I voted for option three: NOT IMPORTANT. ........... That changes the number to 3 to 1 as of this post.
"3 to 1" ????

I know it's been a long time since I took math in school, but it couldn't have changed that much. Am I missing something?

Even putting aside the votes for number 3, I still come up with 15 to 1 !

Look at the numbers:

"Important...." Numbers 1 & 2 = 243 75%
"Won't Use...." Number 4 = 16 5 %

Anyway you look at it ... 243 to 16 or 75% to 5% is 15 to 1
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07-17-2002, 01:59 PM   #92
phone1
?????????

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Fuzzy math?????

Quote:
 Originally posted by vegaspl Finally, as far as my "presuming" to speak for the majority. Just look at the numbers!!!!! 19-1.
Quote:
 Originally posted by vegaspl Anyway you look at it ... 243 to 16 or 75% to 5% is 15 to 1
indeed! Seems you have many ways of looking at it. First you counted option 3 voters as pro FSI to get 19-1, then you just ignored them altogether for your last ratio. Here's the correct calculation:

Option 1 - important - 23
Option 2 - semi-important - 221

Total - 244

Option 3 - not important - 60
Option 4 - don't want it - 16

Total 76

244/76 = 3.21 to 1
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 07-17-2002, 02:20 PM #93 vegaspl Tivo'er since '99   Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: West Hills, CA, USA Posts: 169 I beg to differ... Option 3 (as stated by previous poster) should not be lumped in with those pro FSI. I concur. However, by all indications it would seem to represent those who are (for all intents and purposes) NUETRAL! Therefore they shouldn't be added to the negative side either!!! __________________ 1-Series 2 80 hrs 3 ea S/A's 180h;82h;298 hrs 3 ea-HiDef HR10-250 over 700hrs total 3 ea-HiDef HR20-700 w/2-Seagate 750GB Ext HD's 1 ea-HiDef HR20-100
 07-17-2002, 02:22 PM #94 martinp13 YHTBMABIITY     Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 10,604 TC CLUB MEMBER All a matter of how you view the data. I tend to lump Options 2, 3, and 4 together in these polls, since those are the people who don't want to pay for a feature. Option 1 (the paying group) only accounts for roughly 7% here. I don't count 7% as a "majority", and I wouldn't rush to code something for that small percentage of users. World peace is a great thing, but I'd still vote "It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it." on its poll. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Come join us October 5-12, 2014!
07-17-2002, 02:58 PM   #95
phone1
?????????

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Quote:
 Originally posted by vegaspl I beg to differ... Option 3 (as stated by previous poster) should not be lumped in with those pro FSI. I concur. However, by all indications it would seem to represent those who are (for all intents and purposes) NUETRAL! Therefore they shouldn't be added to the negative side either!!!
Don't presume to speak for me - I voted option 3, and do NOT want TiVo spending time on FSI when there are other more important features and improvements to be addressed.
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07-17-2002, 03:59 PM   #96
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
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Quote:
 Originally posted by phone1 Don't presume to speak for me - I voted option 3, and do NOT want TiVo spending time on FSI when there are other more important features and improvements to be addressed.

Where did you get the Idea that I "Presumed" anything????

Anyway, if you feel THAT strongly, I would think your vote should have been under number 4.

Please notice that I used the term "....think..." not "definately should have"
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 07-18-2002, 09:43 AM #97 phone1 ?????????   Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Location: Location Posts: 6,875 Why do people think they'll make their point more effectively with extra punctuation???????? I think it's just like shouting!!!!!!!!!!! (Or maybe they just have a sticky keyboard. ) __________________ HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. TiVo Series 2 60 Hrs. -> 223 Hrs. SVR-2000 - stock Best Universal Remote (for the money - \$18): To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 07-19-2002, 12:24 AM #98 HTH No Avatar Selected     Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 3,988 There's something definitely presumed here, and that is that people who use the TiVo Community Forum are representative of TiVo users in general. Beside's the sample bias, the sample size is not statistically significant. __________________ ▘▘▀▌▌▘▀▘▌▘▀▘▙▌▐▖▙▘▙▌▌▘▙▘▙▘▟▘ ▛▌▛▌▛▌▙▌▛▌▟▖▌▘▛▌▞▌▌▘▌▖▞▌▞▌▟▘ If you are dissatisfied with your life, return unused portion for partial refund.
07-19-2002, 11:56 AM   #99
rbird
uses tivo "wrong"

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Quote:
 Originally posted by HTH There's something definitely presumed here, and that is that people who use the TiVo Community Forum are representative of TiVo users in general. Beside's the sample bias, the sample size is not statistically significant.
Somebody hasn't been paying attention. Just a few posts up from your post:
Quote:
 Originally posted by rbird Of course even I have to admit that 318 total votes is not really representative of the nearly 500,000 Tivo owners.
Bob

07-22-2002, 01:01 PM   #100
TreborPugly
Unreal!

Join Date: May 2002
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Quote:
 Originally posted by martinp13 All a matter of how you view the data. I tend to lump Options 2, 3, and 4 together in these polls, since those are the people who don't want to pay for a feature. Option 1 (the paying group) only accounts for roughly 7% here.

Given that the features we discuss in this forum are what we'd like to see in the new releases of software, saying we wouldn't pay extra for it does not mean we don't pay for it. We pay a subscription fee which goes to providing the information AND improving the product. I expect a constant improvement in the Tivo software. Features that directly relate to the basic use of the equipment should not cost extra. Features that go above and beyond the normal Tivo use, like MP3 playing or caller id on your TV are things that we should expect to pay extra for.

I voted for #2, and I do expect to pay for it, just not to pay Extra for it.

Treb.

07-22-2002, 09:20 PM   #101
HTH
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Quote:
 Originally posted by rbird Somebody hasn't been paying attention.
My apologies. The browser on the ProGear LX didn't defaults to such a tiny font size, I must have missed it despite looking to make sure I wasn't being redundant.

And I'm particularly embarassed about that inappropriate apostrophe.

Still, I expect my comment about selection bias to stand independent of the sample size.
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 07-29-2002, 05:03 PM #102 pauly666 Senior Member   Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 32 Just gimme a "percentage used" indicator. To answer the next persons question, "Does that include Suggestions that TiVo has recorded?" I answer, "Is it using my hard disk space? Yes? Then..." Just gimme a "percentage used" indicator. If, after delivering that, TiVo decides to get more ambitious, great, add extra screens somewhere that give more details. But, for now: Just gimme a "percentage used" indicator. Please, please, please! If you don't know what a percentage is, go and get your high school diploma; I'm amazed you even know how set up a Season Pass. __________________ My opinion is precisely that. Philips HDR212, ~171hrs, 5/4/02 - STOLEN 3/18/03!!! TiVo Series2 80 hrs, 4/6/03
07-29-2002, 08:45 PM   #103
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Hills, CA, USA
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Quote:
 Originally posted by pauly666 Just gimme a "percentage used" indicator. To answer the next persons question, "Does that include Suggestions that TiVo has recorded?" I answer, "Is it using my hard disk space? Yes? Then..." ........
Now WHY would you want (Need) it to include Suggestions? For all intents and purposes, in effect they DO NOT take up any Storage Space.

As far as determining AVAILABLE space after seeing the figure for "percentage used", suggestions do not infringe on A/S since that space is continuously and freely available for any immediate and/or future recordings.

If anything, better it should include the TDL. Actually an indicator showing both would be even better.
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08-09-2002, 06:54 PM   #104
pauly666
Senior Member

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Quote:
 Originally posted by vegaspl Now WHY would you want (Need) it to include Suggestions? For all intents and purposes, in effect they DO NOT take up any Storage Space.
So I can decide if I want to keep my recorded suggestion, and do a save until... or let TiVo delete it as needed.

It's not hard - if its on my hard disk, tell me what percentage of space I have used/left.
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 08-25-2002, 06:47 PM #105 gjtaylor Registered User   Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5 They already tell you the capacity for the Tivo in each of the available quality settings, why not just put in parenthesis behind that the amount that is currently free at each of those settings? If they are worried about a disclaimer, then simple make it one menu item deaper with the disclaimer shown before getting the the page that shows you the remaining free space.
08-25-2002, 06:54 PM   #106
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Hills, CA, USA
Posts: 169
Quote:
 Originally posted by gjtaylor They already tell you the capacity for the Tivo in each of the available quality settings, why not just put in parenthesis behind that the amount that is currently free at each of those settings? If they are worried about a disclaimer, then simple make it one menu item deaper with the disclaimer shown before getting the the page that shows you the remaining free space.
Good Idea gttaylor!
A "Fresh" "New" Wrinkle (As far as how they should display it). And from a "Newbie" to this forum.

Now if TiVo would just provide it?

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 08-26-2002, 03:25 PM #107 gjtaylor Registered User   Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5 Those are the ways that I came up with to implement the suggestion. I figgure you have to do more than just complain about it not being there. how I would implement the option if I were writing the function. I've been asking for a "Power Toys" version for quite a while, but just recently discovered this board.
08-26-2002, 04:31 PM   #108
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Hills, CA, USA
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Quote:
 Originally posted by gjtaylor Those are the ways that I came up with to implement the suggestion. I figgure you have to do more than just complain about it not being there. how I would implement the option if I were writing the function. I've been asking for a "Power Toys" version for quite a while, but just recently discovered this board.
Your being new to this board, you are probably not aware of the numerous request (suggestions) made on this subject. None of which have produced any results from TiVo. My prior response to you was just commenting on your suggested way to implement a form of FSI as being one I haven't seen before..

Unfortunately, I wouldn't put too much hope in seeing any results
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 08-26-2002, 05:41 PM #109 BrettStah Registered User     Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 15,014 Paul, how quickly you forget... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...threadid=13941 __________________ Brett Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
08-26-2002, 06:23 PM   #110
vegaspl
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Hills, CA, USA
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Quote:
 Originally posted by BrettStah Paul, how quickly you forget... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...threadid=13941
"Quickly"???

That was almost a year ago. I even forgot what I wrote in that thread.
See what happens when you get on in age

I haven't been as active on this subject as in the past. Mainly because of my pessimism & frustration with the realism that "it ain't gonna happen"
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1-Series 2 80 hrs
3 ea S/A's 180h;82h;298 hrs
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3 ea-HiDef HR20-700 w/2-Seagate 750GB Ext HD's
1 ea-HiDef HR20-100

 11-09-2002, 11:10 PM #111 kchristensen Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Crown Point, IN Posts: 9 And two months later, here's another off the wall suggestion about the free space indicator. Everyone has watched the weather report where they give their 5 day forecast or their 7 day forecast. Have TiVo do the same thing for space utilization. Nobody expects the weather report to be 100% accurate. In fact, we're glad if they can get the current day right so we know if we should take a coat, or an umbrella. If they're wrong, we joke about how nice it must be to get paid to be wrong so often. So, what's the likelihood that I'll be able to record programs all week? Is there something I should do this weekend to prevent problems during the week?
 11-10-2002, 07:32 AM #112 Hunter Green Curmudgeon     Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: People's Republic of Vermont Posts: 2,921 Hey, that's a good idea. __________________ former owner of a Series 2 Tivo, lifetime subscription, 233 hours, now sold
 11-12-2002, 04:16 PM #113 TreborPugly Unreal!     Join Date: May 2002 Location: Eastern TN Posts: 4,542 Yes, folks, Monday looks like a record Recording day! The forecast calls for 14 hours of new recordings! The Recording will slow down on Tuesday, with only 5 hours expected, but it looks like 4 hours of programing will be deleted so you better take your SUID's out of the closet... And for those of you with special plans this weekend, look out! It looks like we're in for a big clash between Season pass items and SUID's, and something's gotta go, or we'll just have to skip recording some of your favorite shows __________________ Next?
 01-03-2003, 04:38 PM #114 mmcowan New Member   Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8 It is truly sad that TiVo hasn't put this feature in. This is a no-brainer, super simple thing to add. I'm sure that one of their programmers could whip this out in a couple of hours. Heck, I'll drive up to Alviso and do it for them. Perhaps they're worried about support calls? I bet they get more support calls now from people wondering how to find out how much drive space they have left! "On Windows, I just double-click on 'My Computer' and it's right there, but I can't seem to find it on my Tivo. Please help me find it." Like everyone has said here, this doesn't have to be complicated. We don't need (but many would like) a full statistical breakdown of all of the data on the disk, but just percentages of "user programs", "TiVo suggestions" and "unused space". C'mon already. Perhaps something like:
 01-03-2003, 07:50 PM #115 BrettStah Registered User     Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 15,014 mmcowan, you're right... one of Tivo's programmers could easily whip it out quickly. So the question is why they haven't? My belief is that the Tivo developers feel that current free space is not, by itself, that helpful to most Tivo users, and could in fact cause confusion for some Tivo users. Here's one example... let's say your pie chart pops up on my Tivo tomorrow morning. My wife sees it first, and thinks "Cool, 12% free - I'll schedule that 4 movie marathon of Sean Connery movies that starts tonight... there's plenty of room to fit them without losing anything already recorded." A couple of hours later, I happen to be in front of the TV, and see the same exact pie chart (since nothing has recorded since my wife's actions). I say, "Cool! I'll schedule a few basketball games coming on today... there's plenty of room to fit them without losing anything already recorded." The next day, we find out that 5 hours of previously recorded shows were deleted in order to fit the basketball games and Sean Connery movies. So what went wrong? We looked at the _current_ free space and made assumptions on it (pretty logical, since that works well for PCs right?) However, without taking into account scheduled recordings (aka To Do List) it's not always safe to make these assumptions. Now, what if Tivo decided to provide us with a simple indicator that would say something like this: Your Tivo will need to delete one or more shows on Monday 1/6 at 10:00 AM to make room for new recordings. And as you add new things to be recorded, and delete existing recordings from Now Playing, that indicator will be updated accordingly. Personally, I think that it is possible (from a hardware perspective) to not only provide a single indicator like this, but to actually do this for each recording in Now Playing not marked with the green dot (save until I delete). So you'd see: This show will be deleted on Friday, 2/6 at 8:00 PM to make room for 'The Sopranos'. Others disagree though. __________________ Brett Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
 01-03-2003, 11:12 PM #116 Endless Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3 Tivo already provides the feature of telling you when a program will need to be deleted earlier than it is already scheduled to be deleted. To make it more descriptive the pie chart could use the 5 tivo recording states 1> New recording, 2> old recording 3> can be deleted recording (! recording) 4> until I delete recording 5> tivo suggestion recording and a 6th 6> free space Only showing those that are in use on a given machine. The usage indicator feature is present on Ultimate TV, and they just kept it simple, a color coded bar with the usage/free space. The discouraging thing about this thread is no indiciation of any direction on this. Yes we're working on, or no we're not because of X. If there was an X we could respond with suggestions. For those with 80hr units, or upgraded units knowing how close you are to full is very useful. The indicator you can get by enabling suggestions to be recorded is a little lame, if I let tivo record a bunch of suggestions til the tivo is full, the menu speed gets insanely slow. And then when you do get the point to a full tivo, you're stuck counting 80+ shows to know if you're close. Of course another solution to this would be for Tivo to keep the time that a program is estimated to be deleted. Right now you get 'can be deleted after this date' but there is nothing on there that says this will be deleted at 8pm 1/3/03 as competitive products also have. (they have their own limitation that that time data sometimes takes a few minutes to update if you make large changes to a todo list)
 01-04-2003, 06:46 AM #117 BrettStah Registered User     Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 15,014 mmcowan, I forgot to take into account the suggestions with your pie chart. Most of the time my free space is close to 0%, and so I tend to equate free space with suggestions in my head. But I think my examples still hold true. __________________ Brett Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
 01-04-2003, 02:28 PM #118 dpsjolly Full-time Bore     Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Posts: 71 Come on Tivo - lets do it.
01-04-2003, 06:08 PM   #119
vegaspl
Tivo'er since '99

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Hills, CA, USA
Posts: 169
Quote:
 Originally posted by BrettStah mmcowan, you're right... one of Tivo's programmers could easily whip it out quickly. So the question is why they haven't? My belief is that the Tivo developers feel that current free space is not, by itself, that helpful to most Tivo users, and could in fact cause confusion for some Tivo users. Here's one example... let's say your pie chart pops up on my Tivo tomorrow morning. My wife sees it first, and thinks "Cool, 12% free - I'll schedule that 4 movie marathon of Sean Connery movies that starts tonight... there's plenty of room to fit them without losing anything already recorded." A couple of hours later, I happen to be in front of the TV, and see the same exact pie chart (since nothing has recorded since my wife's actions). I say, "Cool! I'll schedule a few basketball games coming on today... there's plenty of room to fit them without losing anything already recorded." The next day, we find out that 5 hours of previously recorded shows were deleted in order to fit the basketball games and Sean Connery movies. So what went wrong? We looked at the _current_ free space and made assumptions on it (pretty logical, since that works well for PCs right?) However, without taking into account scheduled recordings (aka To Do List) it's not always safe to make these assumptions.
Very Simple!!!

Take "Suggestions" out of the Pie Chart and replace with "Committed" IOW ...the TDL Programs.
__________________
1-Series 2 80 hrs
3 ea S/A's 180h;82h;298 hrs
3 ea-HiDef HR10-250 over 700hrs total
3 ea-HiDef HR20-700 w/2-Seagate 750GB Ext HD's
1 ea-HiDef HR20-100

 01-04-2003, 08:18 PM #120 BrettStah Registered User     Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: New Orleans Posts: 15,014 Paul, if you did that, wouldn't "Committed" almost always completely take up all available space over time? __________________ Brett Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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