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Old 08-28-2008, 02:54 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
First I would establish that you can indeed play back a known to work video such as systm--0063--dolby--hd.h264.mp4 posted earlier in this thread which is a HD h.264 encoding. If that one works it establishes that your problem is indeed an encoding the Tivo can't handle.
NOTE: That one is a pretty big download, so if you have a decrypted mpeg2 from a Tivo to try instead that would be a good option too.
I've never used handbrake but I'm sure there are configuration options for the encoding that can be tweaked to make it work. One of these nights I'm going to have to play around with ffmpeg/mencoder/handbrake and figure out an encoding recipe that works starting from a small mpeg2 clip. Currently most of my videos are in mpeg2 format as they came mostly from my Tivos and I don't like to lose any quality by re-encoding and I haven't tried re-encoding them to mpeg4/h.264. If anyone else here has movies they have converted to mpeg4/h.264 please share your recipe.
I'm downloading it now. Can you also PM me the instructions to build this under a Java 1.5 release instead of 1.6?

And I guess I can always try DVD Shrink for my DVDs instead of handbrake.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:08 PM   #92
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Just a thought, but what about passing it as a commandline option, defaulting to "Video Streamer" if nothing is given?
Not really feasible. I'm using Tivo's com.tivo.hme.host.sample.Main as the entry point to the application so can't define my own command line arguments to parse. So short of writing my own Main that's currently not possible.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:36 PM   #93
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That is interesting. Out of curiosity can you get captions with any YouTube files? Does YouTube even support closed captioning?
I just thought I would update my response because You Tube has added supporting for captioning. I think that it still holds that the Tivo stream will not support this at this time. I plan to continue to follow events and do something when/if I can.

http://www.youtube.com/blog?entry=mi8D3ntPgFQ
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:56 PM   #94
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I just thought I would update my response because You Tube has added supporting for captioning. I think that it still holds that the Tivo stream will not support this at this time. I plan to continue to follow events and do something when/if I can.

http://www.youtube.com/blog?entry=mi8D3ntPgFQ
I would think if/when Tivo updates software to support closed captioning from YouTube streams that this application would automatically start working as well. i.e. If the CC data is part of the stream then Tivo should be able to display them. I don't think it's practical for the HME server (such as YouTube or this application) to generate the CC text because of the networking lags involved, the synchronization issues and the fact that the server would have to have it's own decoder doing CPU intensive work. It makes a lot more sense to pass the data to the Tivo and let it handle display just as it does for normal playback.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:21 PM   #95
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I would think if/when Tivo updates software to support closed captioning from YouTube streams that this application would automatically start working as well. i.e. If the CC data is part of the stream then Tivo should be able to display them. I don't think it's practical for the HME server (such as YouTube or this application) to generate the CC text because of the networking lags involved, the synchronization issues and the fact that the server would have to have it's own decoder doing CPU intensive work. It makes a lot more sense to pass the data to the Tivo and let it handle display just as it does for normal playback.
In principal, I agree but it is the "if/when" that I don't care for. I have a mixed reaction to the support Tivo gives to captioning. When it is internal to their box, they have shown themselves to be responsive and even innovative such as the CC over HDMI on the Series 3 and the reasonably prompt inclusion of an easier way to toggle the caption on/off in the software. On the other hand, if I had waited for Tivo to do something on with the Tivo Desktop, I would still be waiting for the support T2Sami provides.

Simply including the CC data in the stream is not enough. It is already there in any mpegs that derive from a .tivo source. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that You Tube will adopt a protocol that is compatible with the one Tivo uses although that would be nice.

The part that is exciting for me is that You Tube /Google is one of the first prominent web player to do something about providing a mechanism to deliver captioned video. From that point on a final delivery solution can be created, convenient or not. It took time to for me to fully support normal Tivo captioning in both directions and knowing my schedule, it will take time to support captions in a You Tube steam. But the point is that it is now possible whether Tivo implements it or not.
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:37 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
It makes a lot more sense to pass the data to the Tivo and let it handle display just as it does for normal playback.
"just as it does for normal playback" means rendering it through an HME-like mechanism. There is zero chance that they're going to do it for you on streamed video.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:16 PM   #97
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"just as it does for normal playback" means rendering it through an HME-like mechanism. There is zero chance that they're going to do it for you on streamed video.
Help me understand why that's the case? They already have a CC rendering mechanism built into the Tivo when displaying recorded videos, so why could that not be put to use? If it can't be done on the Tivo then if they want to implement it say for YouTube then the load of rendering will fall squarely on the YouTube HME servers? That seems like it could be a lot of horsepower required if so to support many users at a time if done on the fly (unless they pre-process videos they serve ahead of time or something of that nature).

One feasible way I could envision implementing this via HME is pre-processing a video file and generating a helper file that could be accessed during playback. In simplest form it would have time position & text+formatting instructions that can be consulted to do the rendering. This would be a lot simpler than trying to do it dynamically.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:51 AM   #98
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One feasible way I could envision implementing this via HME is pre-processing a video file and generating a helper file that could be accessed during playback. In simplest form it would have time position & text+formatting instructions that can be consulted to do the rendering. This would be a lot simpler than trying to do it dynamically.
And early looks at the You Tube mechanism seem to lead to the implication that this is what they are doing. In part that is why they are supporting .sup and .srt formats which are basically your "helper file".

The issue on the Tivo is that the mechanism for ATSC captions is nothing like that. These captions have to be muxed into the video stream in a very specific format and the timing relies entirely on the timing of that stream including the timing anomalies created by B-frames. ATSC captions have been made to work with mpeg-2 and could be made to work mpeg-4 streams but to my knowledge aren't used that way for mpeg-4. Finally all this is handled in the Tivo by the hardware. There is little Tivo can do to alter it retroactively.

So the choice on that path is to get the stream to exactly mimic the formatting the Tivo expects which is what T2Sami does when it works to send close captioned video back through pyTivo. The other choice is to come up with an alternate mechanism geared to work well with the You Tube mpeg-4 streams. That in turn requires the ability to overlay text onto the video stream. So far it appears the suggested HME solution may be the only one available for that.

Could Tivo do this inside the box more effectively - certainly. Will they - As I noted, their track record in this area is not one I trust.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:55 AM   #99
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I'm going to submit another suggestion and a question.

The suggestion is to allow the user to configure a name for each share. It's purely cosmetic, of course, but having shares of "Main" and "Videos Sorted by Genre" make more sense on the TiVo than /RAID/Recordings and /usr/share/pyTivo/wgw/pyshares, or at least look much nicer.

The question is this: Assuming TiVo comes up with support for streaming and / or h.264 in HMO applications, how difficult will it be to convert your application to HMO? I've glanced briefly at some HMO programming, but I haven't dug deeply into it, and I haven't looked at HME at all. Your application is really great, but it would be really nice if it showed up inthe NPL, rather than under Downloads, etc.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:45 AM   #100
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How do I get this to convert to a TiVo-friendly h.264 format with 5.1 audio?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
The MPEG-4 files that work (so far) are h.264 video, AAC audio, in a Quicktime (MOV) wrapper.
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
But I can't comment specifically on the issue of 5.1.
So far I can't get it to work with any switch for -acodec at all. I even tried the sample in the ffmpeg man page, and still no matter what I get:

Code:
Unsupported codec for output stream #0.1

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Old 08-29-2008, 11:54 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
The question is this: Assuming TiVo comes up with support for streaming and / or h.264 in HMO applications, how difficult will it be to convert your application to HMO?
It would be impossible, since HMO and HME have nothing in common at all. However, it would (and will) be easy to support h.264 in pyTivo, if and when it can be done in HMO at all (and we can see how).

Streaming video will never be associated with HMO.

Quote:
Code:
Unsupported codec for output stream #0.1
So, you need to get or build a version of ffmpeg that supports it.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #102
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The suggestion is to allow the user to configure a name for each share. It's purely cosmetic, of course, but having shares of "Main" and "Videos Sorted by Genre" make more sense on the TiVo than /RAID/Recordings and /usr/share/pyTivo/wgw/pyshares, or at least look much nicer.
Next version I'm working on already has something like that where you can optionally provide a name for each share in the config.ini file and the names are what you see at top level (if no name given then the full dir name is displayed as normal).
I've added several new configuration items to config.ini including control over instant replay/skip forwards times, status bar & info text timeout values, font size and a couple of others. I think there are enough changes in my development version to warrant another release soon.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:38 PM   #103
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So, you need to get or build a version of ffmpeg that supports it.
I'm not sure how I woud go about that. More properly, I assumed it already would, and don't know why it doesn't. According to the notes in the Debian distro, I've got the most recent Deb package for ffmpeg on a 64 bit AMD processor, and I have the latest codec library. How would I go about compiling additional codecs into the application, and which ones?
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:53 PM   #104
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I'm not sure how I woud go about that. More properly, I assumed it already would, and don't know why it doesn't. According to the notes in the Debian distro, I've got the most recent Deb package for ffmpeg on a 64 bit AMD processor, and I have the latest codec library. How would I go about compiling additional codecs into the application, and which ones?
You can see list of codecs compiled into the binary you are using by executing "ffmpeg -formats". For missing codecs you have to obtain and build those and then when you build ffmpeg from source you have to include them.
For example if "libxvid" was missing you would obtain the codec from here and then compile it.
Then when building ffmpeg from source you would use the configure --enable-libxvid (along with --extra-cflags and --extra-ldflags to include the headers and libs of libxvid) option to add it.
The standard build of ffmpeg (and libxvid example above) from source is pretty easy and follows the GNU norms:
./configure
make
make install

As to which particular codecs you are missing first you should try and discover the codecs used in your source video that you are trying to convert. Which particular audio codecs the Tivo supports I don't know...
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:23 PM   #105
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I'm not sure how I woud go about that. More properly, I assumed it already would, and don't know why it doesn't. According to the notes in the Debian distro, I've got the most recent Deb package for ffmpeg on a 64 bit AMD processor, and I have the latest codec library. How would I go about compiling additional codecs into the application, and which ones?
If I'm reading this right, the only h264 video that works is in an MP4 container (MOV wrapper). From what I understand of the MP4 container, the only 5.1 audio it can contain according to spec is AAC 5.1. You can force AC3 5.1 (aka Dolby Digital) into the container (ala -acodec copy), but that violates spec.

So to remain within spec for MP4, you would need to convert the AC3 5.1 to AAC 5.1. To get ffmpeg to do that, your ffmpeg has to be compiled with libfaac support. ffmpeg itself doesn't have a native AAC encoder currently (it's in development, an initial AAC decoder was recently added to ffmpeg trunk), hence the need for the library.

However, even if you create an mp4 file with h264 video and AAC 5.1 audio and the Tivo will play it with tivostream, no one knows what will happen with the audio. If the Tivo just bitstreams the AAC 5.1 signal to your receiver, then chances are your receiver doesn't support AAC 5.1 and won't know what to do with the signal. If you happen to have an AAC 5.1 capable receiver, it just might work.

In my case, my receiver can't handle AAC 5.1 so I would have to hope that Tivo wrote a AAC 5.1 decoder and then set the Tivo unit to decode it to PCM and pass that out to my receiver. If they did that then maybe I could get 5.1 audio.

Has anyone tried playing an EVO or an Mpeg2 TS file with tivostream? Both those support h264 video and AC3 5.1 audio.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:40 PM   #106
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Has anyone tried playing an EVO or an Mpeg2 TS file with tivostream? Both those support h264 video and AC3 5.1 audio.
I tried throwing a couple of mpeg2 transport streams (recorded from a PC QAM tuner) at my Tivo S3 via tivostream and no go. All mpeg2 program streams I've tried thus far seem to work OK. NOTE: Currently in tivostream I don't send any "hints" to the Tivo about video format. When setting up a stream there is an option to specify what kind of stream it is, for example "video/mpeg2". It could be that explicitly specifying the format you are sending could help make it work. One thing I may try is "video/x-tivo-raw-tts" for transport streams (which works to pull videos off Tivos in transport stream format - though they are still encrypted that way).
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:04 PM   #107
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One thing I may try is "video/x-tivo-raw-tts" for transport streams (which works to pull videos off Tivos in transport stream format - though they are still encrypted that way).
A little off topic, but do you mean encrypted as in .tivo file encrypted with the Tivo MAK, or encrypted some other way?

It would be nice to be able to pull video from non-copyprotected broadcasts off my Tivo S3 at something approaching MRV speed rather than the really slow TTG speed.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:25 PM   #108
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A little off topic, but do you mean encrypted as in .tivo file encrypted with the Tivo MAK, or encrypted some other way?

It would be nice to be able to pull video from non-copyprotected broadcasts off my Tivo S3 at something approaching MRV speed rather than the really slow TTG speed.
[WAY OFF TOPIC] Some network sniffing I did with a hub revealed that when you initiate MRV between 2 S3 Tivos the URL used is same as a normal TTG URL except with a different format specification: "&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts". Trying that from a web browser worked and allowed me to download a video at MRV speeds which was great news. The bad news is that it is encrypted in some format I don't know how to deal with (tivodecode doesn't know what to do with it so it's not the normal .TiVo encrypted format), so it's pretty worthless. I can only hope someone a lot more gifted at dealing with encryption can crack it, but I'm at a loss what to do with it. [/WAY OFF TOPIC]
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:34 PM   #109
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You can see list of codecs compiled into the binary you are using by executing "ffmpeg -formats".
Yeah, that I know. The ac3 codec is there, but not libfaac, assuming libfaac is the library I need. From suggestions elsewhere, it's possible I also may need libx264, although I'm not certain. The Debian build says it supports H.264 encoding without that codec. I surmise it might be needed for the Quicktime wrapper, however, if that is needed.

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For missing codecs you have to obtain and build those and then when you build ffmpeg from source you have to include them.
I'm stumbling on this one. I can't seem to find a single tarball with the ffmpeg source code. The mplayer project has tons of individual source code files, but I'm a bit lost on which ones I need to compile ffmpeg manually.

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For example if "libxvid" was missing you would obtain the codec from here and then compile it.
Then when building ffmpeg from source you would use the configure --enable-libxvid (along with --extra-cflags and --extra-ldflags to include the headers and libs of libxvid) option to add it.
Yeah, that much I also understand, but first I have to have all the files I need to compile ffmpeg itself.

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The standard build of ffmpeg (and libxvid example above) from source is pretty easy
I'm sure it is once I have all the source files and directory structure in place. It also will be simple once I know which codecs I actually need. At this point I am uncertain.

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As to which particular codecs you are missing first you should try and discover the codecs used in your source video that you are trying to convert. Which particular audio codecs the Tivo supports I don't know...
I'm not seeming to have any troubles with the source codecs. It recognizes the input video and audio just fine. It's the output with which I am having trouble, first of all in knowing which codecs I actually need, and then figuring out how to gather everything I need to compile ffmpeg.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:46 PM   #110
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[WAY OFF TOPIC]Trying that from a web browser worked and allowed me to download a video at MRV speeds which was great news. The bad news is that it is encrypted in some format I don't know how to deal with (tivodecode doesn't know what to do with it so it's not the normal .TiVo encrypted format)
The .TiVo format is not really encrypted. I'm given to understand it's really just an MPEG-II transport stream file with some xml information embedded in it.

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so it's pretty worthless. I can only hope someone a lot more gifted at dealing with encryption can crack it, but I'm at a loss what to do with it. [/WAY OFF TOPIC]
I don't believe anyone has broken TiVo's encryption scheme, and I doubt they ever will. Disabling encryption on the Tivo is fairly simple, though, and there are utilities to pull off the unencrypted ty streams and to convert from a ty stream to an ordinary MPEG-II transport stream. This all requires hacking the TiVo, however.

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Old 08-29-2008, 06:50 PM   #111
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lrhorer, ffmpeg source I usually grab from here (which corresponds to very latest source code):
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-ex...apshot.tar.bz2
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:12 PM   #112
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lrhorer, ffmpeg source I usually grab from here (which corresponds to very latest source code):
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-ex...apshot.tar.bz2
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:34 PM   #113
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More properly, I assumed it already would, and don't know why it doesn't. According to the notes in the Debian distro, I've got the most recent Deb package for ffmpeg on a 64 bit AMD processor, and I have the latest codec library.
The builds of ffmpeg included with Debian and Ubuntu are crap. Part of that might be patent issues; part of it is that they're just out of date.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #114
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Well, I'm getting closer. I really appreciate all the help. Assuming I needed libx264 and libfaac, I went into the libavcodec directory from the tarball and ran 'make libx264' and 'make libfaac', but both failed with a number of compile errors, the most obvious being both source files call for header files (x264.h and faac.h, respectively) that aren't there. I don't see them on the ffmpeg download page, either.

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Old 08-29-2008, 07:57 PM   #115
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Well, I'm getting closer. I really appreciate all the help. Assuming I needed libx264 and libfaac, I went into the libavcodec directory from the tarball and ran 'make libx264' and 'make libfaac', but both failed with a number of compile errors, the most obvious being both source files call for header files (x264.h and faac.h, respectively) that aren't there. I don't see them on the ffmpeg download page, either.
You should use the "configure script" to prepare for compile:
./configure --enable-libx264 --enable-libfaac
(look in the configure script itself for all available switches)
After a successful configure (where it can get all dependencies) then it's a simple make:
make
make install
(you may also want to use the --prefix=/custom/path with configure to install in non-standard location)
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:13 PM   #116
lrhorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
You should use the "configure script" to prepare for compile:
./configure --enable-libx264 --enable-libfaac
Yeah, I did that, and those switches are indeed listed, but the attempt yields errors saying libfaac and x264 are not found. (One needs GPL enabled as well for libx264, but I did that.) I presumed the failure was due to libfaac and libx264 not being compiled, so I went into the libavcodec directory and tried compiling libx264 and libfaac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
After a successful configure (where it can get all dependencies) then it's a simple make:
make
make install
(you may also want to use the --prefix=/custom/path with configure to install in non-standard location)
I'm not using a custom path, and ./configure with no options works fine, but it fails for libx264 and libfaac.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:25 PM   #117
moyekj
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New tivostream version just released:
http://tivostream.googlecode.com/fil...tream_v0p6.zip

v0p6 - August 29, 2008
----------------------
* Added capability to customize font size in config.ini:
large, medium (default), small
* Added capability to give friendly names to top level directories
in the config.ini file.
* Added capability to customize instant replay, skip forwards, info timeout,
status bar timeout and slow speed in config.ini.
* Comment lines are now allowed in config.ini (lines starting with #)
* Sample config.ini includes all new settings and comments with descriptions
* Updated documentation to document the new config.ini options.
* Added automatic parsing of pyTivo metadata files. i.e. If you have a
file with same name as video file but with .txt extension at the end in
pyTivo syntax then the file is parsed and information is shown on screen
when you press Info button.

NOTE: For the metadata information display it's very crude right now with plenty of room for improvement, but at least the infrastructure is in place for easy future updates.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:27 PM   #118
lrhorer
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Oh, way cool! Now if I can just get ffmpeg working to transcode to h.264...
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:47 PM   #119
moyekj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
Oh, way cool! Now if I can just get ffmpeg working to transcode to h.264...
You have to build libx264 and libfaac separately before building ffmpeg. I haven't tried yet but the corresponding builds you can get here:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/faac/faac-1.26.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.videolan.org/pub/videolan/...9-2245.tar.bz2
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:00 PM   #120
lrhorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
NOTE: For the metadata information display it's very crude right now with plenty of room for improvement, but at least the infrastructure is in place for easy future updates.
Yeah, the first thing on my list is the program names in the main list. For example, the file name might be "2 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (Recorded Sat Apr 12, 2008, KSATDT).mpg, but in the metafile the title is "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" and the episode title is "...and the Chamber of Secrets". Since I'm in the "Harry Potter" directory, the "Harry Potter" is not absolutely necessary, although now with the smaller fonts, it will all fit. So it would be nice if the main program display were either the title field (great now with the smaller fonts) or the episode title filed from the metafile, rather than the filename. Of course pyTivo utilizes the episode title, which is why I put the truncated name there, but with the smaller fonts the full title is actually preferable, since some of the shares don't separate by folder that way.

I've got to say, man, you're doing a fabulous job with this utility.
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