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Old 09-20-2008, 02:01 PM   #31
morac
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Originally Posted by Tommy_D View Post
I was, past tense, able to record two HD digital programs at the same time-- but TIVO sent a message for me to go through Guided Setup again. Now for some reason I can only record one program. What's up with that? Obviously it's not that the SERIES 3 can't record two programs with one m-card... it's the software/Guided setup that blocks the capability.
Technically the S3 can record cable channels without any cards at all. The cards only provide channel mapping data and decryption capabilities. Since the channel mapping data is the same on both cards, really only one card is needed for channel mapping.

The problem is that on the S3 an M-Card can only associate itself with one tuner and therefore only decrypt channels tuned on that tuner. So if the S3 tunes to an encrypted channel on the tuner not associated with the m-card, that channel can't be decrypted so it will appear blank.

So yes, technically the S3's software is blocking dual-tuner capability with one m-card, but it is doing so to prevent the problem mentioned above.

In other words, just get Comcast to give you another card. If they won't have them call Tivo's CableCARD hotline so TiVo can explain it to them.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:52 PM   #32
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While the numbers on M-Card support are small, they represent the folk who are willing to pay a pretty high premium for TiVo product right out of the chute. While there is an up-front expense for providing that support, there is some value in ensuring that crowd will be there, wallet in hand, for your next big release.

Some time in the future, folk may look at how the early adopters were handled -- no M-Card, long wait for TTG, etc, and decide to wait a year following the next product introduction, just to see how things shake out.

Its not a big deal for most, on its own, but it is added to the equation when considering the Series 4, whatever that will be.
Had I known that the Series 3 was likely never going to support M-cards, I would have just gone with the HD. I could have sworn only a month or two ago, I checked TiVo's website and it said they were either trying or investigating M-card support on the Series 3.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:30 AM   #33
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:30 PM   #34
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My only complaint with the S3 boxes are the cable card slot locations. The back is not a good place for the cablecard slot in a SetTopBox.
The back is a great place, IMO. You install them once and then leave them there, out of the way of prying hands.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:04 PM   #35
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The back is a great place, IMO. You install them once and then leave them there, out of the way of prying hands.
Agreed. The only time it's not a good place is when they are originally installed. And, even then, GET OVER IT! There's no reason to fiddle with CableCARDS once they are installed and working properly.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:29 PM   #36
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As I explained in April, this is a risky development proposition. I will never say never, because there are very few absolutes (except death and taxes of course). But it's very, very unlikely.

From earlier this year:
Like others have said, this makes me never want to be a TiVo early adopter again. Everyone in the "small" percentage of people paying more for their second cable card is also the same group willing to pay the $800 premium on a new TiVo. I'm not sure if I'm going to be in the same group next time.

You have to understand that some of us feel triple screwed.

1. No M-Card support, so we pay a lot more each month from our cable company
2. Significantly cheaper hardware comes out, that does support M-cards
3. New TiVo subscribers who bought an S3 couldn't get a lifetime, which was later offered for the TiVo HD

The cheaper hardware was expected, the others weren't.

Regarding the CableCard issues, if you can't fix it, that's one thing. You could make it up to your series 3 base by offering a promo on the future series 4 or giving us a few free months, etc.

Right now as it stands, it doesn't look like TiVo cares about the eager early adopters who support the company.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:29 PM   #37
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Agreed. The only time it's not a good place is when they are originally installed. And, even then, GET OVER IT! There's no reason to fiddle with CableCARDS once they are installed and working properly.
I think you mean if they are ever installed and working properly. If I only had to put them in once and never touch them again, the back would be fine. I would very much like to live in that fantasy world.
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Old 09-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #38
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I think you mean if they are ever installed and working properly. If I only had to put them in once and never touch them again, the back would be fine. I would very much like to live in that fantasy world.
I have two original Series 3s with two cable cards each and never had a problem, so some people do have successful installations.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:08 AM   #39
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I haven't touched mine since they were installed in both my Tivo's, 1 and 2 years ago, respectively.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:19 AM   #40
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On one S3, I haven't touched them. On the other one, I've had one card go bad, so I tried popping it out and putting it back to fix it, but that did nothing -- rebooting did.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:37 PM   #41
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Agreed. The only time it's not a good place is when they are originally installed. And, even then, GET OVER IT! There's no reason to fiddle with CableCARDS once they are installed and working properly.
I definitely prefer the front access, although it is most certainly not a show-stopper either way. As a partial quadruplegic, accessing the rear of components can be very difficult. Also, while it is not usually necessary to access the CableCards very often, your assertion is an overstatement. First of all, while I have had numerous CableCard installs, only one of them was straighforward, and all but that one required shuffling around multiple CableCards. Secondly, even once the install is complete, there are cases where accessing the CableCard is required. As William already stated, a failed CableCard is one reason. In my case, when the installer did my third CableCard install, I had to remove the cards from my first Tivo and install them into my second TiVo to prove to the installer that it was the cards, not the TiVo, that were bad. When despite several trips to get more coards he still could not come up with more than 1 good CableCard, I again shuffled the cards around so as to have 2 good cards in the new Tivo and one in the old. I have also had one occasion since then to re-seat one of the CableCards in one of my S3 TiVos, and a front access slot would have really been nice. All in all, I definitely prefer the front access slots.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:24 PM   #42
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Likewise, features such as QAM remapping and M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers, both are in fact very small numbers of subscribers. That doesn't mean that they automatically get set aside, or that TiVo is ignoring or doesn't care about those customers. But it is a consideration when trading off those features against others (M-Card for S3 is technically possible, but also technically very complex. We've learned that there is a lot of risk inherent in that development).
I can understand if it isn't a high priority, but "M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers"?

How could that be? It literally affects EVERY cablecard Series 3 subscriber you have out there.

Comcast is charging me $6.99/mo for my second cablecard. That's $83.88 a year. I've seriously considered purchasing a refurb TiVo HD as it would pay for itself in two years.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:45 PM   #43
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Comcast is charging me $6.99/mo for my second cablecard. That's $83.88 a year. I've seriously considered purchasing a refurb TiVo HD as it would pay for itself in two years.
Are you sure that is for the cablecard? Perhaps they have incorrectly charged you for a 2nd digital outlet. My 2nd cablecard is costing me $1.99 on Comcast. Is your Tivo a 2nd digital device, i.e. in addition to a set top box or other cablecard in a TV?

Most people here have reported less than $2.00 for a cablecard. There is a Comcast webpage that addresses how Tivo, additional digital outlets, and cablecards should be billed.

http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq...&fss=cablecard

You may also want to read the official Comcast cablecard thread if you aren't already. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=316310
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:43 PM   #44
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I can understand if it isn't a high priority, but "M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers"?

How could that be? It literally affects EVERY cablecard Series 3 subscriber you have out there.
Here here! Well said.
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:01 AM   #45
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I, for one, will certainly keep this in mind next time I decide whether to support TiVo as an early adopter. The S3 has clear printing on the back that certainly could have left one with the impression that full M-card support was coming. Oh well. I guess I'll wait until the second generation of the Tru2Way TiVo comes out in 2012...
You know about a year ago I almost decided to get an S3 believing it was the better unit (cost more money too). The cost held me back as did it not being DBS capable and hoping for Lifetime. I hate monthly bills!

Then I thought with Tivo HD prices coming down maybe I should get it if only for the dual tuner OTA. My pricepoint was $200 and I never seemed to find it right at $200 at that time.

Now I'm glad I waited and didn't go S3. OTOH right now I don't have the $200 anymore. LOL
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:55 AM   #46
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I can understand if it isn't a high priority, but "M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers"?

How could that be? It literally affects EVERY cablecard Series 3 subscriber you have out there.

Comcast is charging me $6.99/mo for my second cablecard. That's $83.88 a year. I've seriously considered purchasing a refurb TiVo HD as it would pay for itself in two years.
You answered your own question, "every SERIES 3 subscriber", that might not be as large an overall number (ALL Models of Tivo) that you think. Personally I could not see paying the premium for a series 3 when it came out WAY too expensive IMO. I think that limited the original series 3 sales, but when THD came out it became a viable option. THDXL I also think is a bit overpriced for what you get as well ($450 -$500 is more reasonable) and they are both also "Series 3" and both have M-Card support, So you are wrong technically when you said EVERY Series 3 subscriber. I won't defend Tivo for their choice in priorities, but I also don't know what percentage of ALL tivo owners have a series 3. Personally I would think that they would want to keep those that paid a premium happy, but then again if it is only something like .005% it might not be worth it.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:11 AM   #47
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It would be Only Series 3 subscribers, on systems which have M-cards available, and IMO, they than realize a notable savings by going to one card, compared to their entire subscription base.
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