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Old 10-15-2008, 01:57 PM   #151
schwinn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
There's nothing new to tell. We've had about a dozen reports of this (via the forums) for Series1 systems. We have Series1 systems internally here which continue to record suggestions. We have seen the blank Suggestions screen issue here. I've taken the dozen or so TSN's and passed them along to the engineering team. When there's more that I can share I'll pass it along.

Pony
Thank you for the response. I realize you don't have much to tell us yet, but at least letting us know that it's actually being worked on helps. If you could update us every so often, that would show that Tivo does care about us!

@TivoPony: As Eldan asked - has Tivo reproduced the problem, or are you not able to see it?

Either way, I plan to plug in my second (currently unused) S1 Tivo (Turbonet card only - no other hacks or drive changes) to see if it works or doesn't work. It has been recently purged via "Clear and Delete Everything", so it should be a good reference for what's happening, too. I'll let people on this thread know what I find, but it will take a few days (I imagine) for it to do its thing...

EDIT: Since this is a new page, here's the list so far, again.

BSM = Blank Suggestions Menu; NRS = Not Recording Suggestions (except right after thumb-upping)

Not working:
the928guy: large-drive S1
FJones: virgin S1 [BSM+NRS]
schwinn: S1-hacked [BSM+NRS]
Illusion: large-drive S1 [BSM+NRS]
Illusion's neighbor: S1, monthly contract [BSM]
a68oliver: virgin-S1 [BSM+NRS]
ronsch: S1-hacked
Swisher: virgin S1
cgf: S1-hacked
nmiller855: virgin S1 [BSM]
ChevyRon: S1-hacked
ptimkey: S1
fuzzyfox: Two S1s (looking into the third S1)
Eldan: S1
sc293: S1-hacked [BSM+NRS]
denature: S1 [BSM+NRS]
Eldan: S1 [BSM+NRS]
charleswenzel: large-drive S1 [NRS]
badcrc: THREE S1 units [BSM+NRS]
eblues: S1-hacked [BSM+NRS]

perplexed: HD - recommend trying reboot trick [NRS]
Ken-6809er: HD - [BSM (doesn't use auto-record)]
Working:
BanditWS6: TivoHD, reboot trick working since 9/13
pandabreath: S2, Full Reset worked
Bort13: S2 (reboot trick appears to be working)
SJAndrew: S2-hacked (reboot trick appears to be working)
wkparker: TivoHD (fixed with restart (not reboot-trick))
spongex: S2 (Canada) reboot-trick worked
kingkong316: HD clear-thumbs worked
WORKING S1s: (None reported yet)

Last edited by schwinn : 10-15-2008 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:18 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
We have Series1 systems internally here which continue to record suggestions. We have seen the blank Suggestions screen issue here.
Pony
Sounds to me like they've seen the empty suggestions screen but haven't reproduced the suggestions recording problem.

To TiVoPony: Is it true TiVo has disabled suggestions on UK S1 tivos? If so, what was the effective date on that?
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:34 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinn View Post
BSM = Blank Suggestions Menu; NRS = Not Recording Suggestions (except right after thumb-upping)

Not working:[indent]the928guy: large-drive S1
[snip]
cgf: S1-hacked
[snip]
You can put me down for BSM+NRS.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:44 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badcrc View Post
To TiVoPony: Is it true TiVo has disabled suggestions on UK S1 tivos? If so, what was the effective date on that?
Yes it's true, the relevant post is here, an excerpt:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
We now believe this to be due to recent changes in the program data supplied by our provider. While these data changes are necessary and allow the continued recording of your favorite shows, they are incompatible with the TiVo Suggestions feature. As such, TiVo Suggestions will no longer be available as a part of the TiVo Service for Series1 subscribers in the United Kingdom.
The effective date was around 24th August.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:19 PM   #155
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S1-hacked BSM+NRS
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:15 AM   #156
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Schwinn:

It's been about a month since I tried the suggestions off/reboot/suggestions on/reboot/force daily call trick so I wanted to give you an update. At first, a few programs did get automatically recorded but still nothing was showing up under Tivo suggestions. I then went through all of our old programs that had been automatically recorded (and not deleted yet) and re-did the thumbs on all of those. I also did a wishlist search and re-did the thumbs on everything that came up. After that a few programs appeared under suggestions and they actually survived the daily call. A couple of them were even recorded automatically.

Since then I've started going through the alphabet letter by letter and re-doing the thumbs for programs under each letter. I do a letter every couple of days - I'm up to "F" now. Since then I've had anywhere from 2 - 5 programs under suggestions and they've stayed there even after the daily call. (Not all of them get automatically recorded.) Tivo has also automatically recorded some suggestions. Sometimes I get something every 2 - 3 days. One day it automatically recorded 2 suggestions! It's not back to the way it was before, but at least it's progress. I'm going to keep working my way through the alphabet and my hope is that as I re-do more thumbs data more suggestions will appear and will continue to be automatically recorded. At least that's what I'm hoping ....
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:02 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by sc293 View Post
Schwinn:
I then went through all of our old programs that had been automatically recorded (and not deleted yet) and re-did the thumbs on all of those. I also did a wishlist search and re-did the thumbs on everything that came up. After that a few programs appeared under suggestions and they actually survived the daily call. A couple of them were even recorded automatically.

Since then I've started going through the alphabet letter by letter and re-doing the thumbs for programs under each letter. I do a letter every couple of days - I'm up to "F" now. Since then I've had anywhere from 2 - 5 programs under suggestions and they've stayed there even after the daily call. (Not all of them get automatically recorded.) Tivo has also automatically recorded some suggestions. Sometimes I get something every 2 - 3 days. One day it automatically recorded 2 suggestions!
While your results are promising, the fix is unacceptable, especially for people like me with three S1 tivos. Also the suggestion feature has never been that touchy. Even on a fresh install you only have to give thumbs to a few things and it records suggestions whenever it gets a chance, until there's no space left, then it continues every time one of the suggestions is set to expire and the tivo is idle.

I've deleted all my suggestions on one tivo, the other tivos have suggestions that are all expired and should be deleted if suggestions were working correctly. I've added and removed thumbs from a bunch of shows. I wish we could determine the difference between people getting suggestions and people getting nothing.

Just to recap: I have Three S1 tivos, all with drive upgrades, two on analog cable, one on digital cable. All have blank suggestion screen and aren't recording suggestions. I've tried the disable suggestions/reboot/enable/reboot fix, with no change after several days.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:00 AM   #158
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Thumbs down Someone Should tell Tivo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
There's nothing new to tell. We've had about a dozen reports of this (via the forums) for Series1 systems. We have Series1 systems internally here which continue to record suggestions. We have seen the blank Suggestions screen issue here. I've taken the dozen or so TSN's and passed them along to the engineering team. When there's more that I can share I'll pass it along.

Pony
Dear Tivo Pony, I have the exact same problem, after speaking to 'support' at Tivo they suggested it was a hardware failure of somekind and they have not come accross the problem.
I would encourage everyone and anyone to share their 'experiences' with Tivo support. Not that it helped me one iota, it just puts it on the record.


Rgs

Alan

S1 Tivo, 160GB, not recorded suggestions since August

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Old 10-18-2008, 07:26 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoobyshouse View Post
Dear Tivo Pony, I have the exact same problem, after speaking to 'support' at Tivo they suggested it was a hardware failure of somekind and they have not come accross the problem.
I would encourage everyone and anyone to share their 'experiences' with Tivo support. Not that it helped me one iota, it just puts it on the record.


Rgs

Alan

S1 Tivo, 160GB, not recorded suggestions since August
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveroe View Post
Yes it's true, the relevant post is here, an excerpt:



The effective date was around 24th August.
Suggestions no longer work in the UK.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:55 PM   #160
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Me too

I just found this thread. My S2 stopped recording suggestions back in Aug or so. After a while, I rebooted (plain reboot) and that "fixed" it for a few weeks but now it's back to recording one or two suggestions per week on average instead of the usual 5-10 per day. I have plenty of space available and even went through and deleted everything in the 'recently deleted' folder just as a test. There are, and always have been, pages and pages of suggestions in my TiVo Suggestions screen. I also have lots of shows with thumbs-up and just a few with thumbs-down. The 'Record Suggestions" feature is enabled and always has been. I'll keep playing with it but hopefully someone (maybe TiVo) will find a solution.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:34 PM   #161
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@sc293: I feel your pain, as do pretty much all the S1 users here (and, presumably, even more that don't know about this thread!)

Personally, after resetting my thumbs db, I did a bunch of them, and stopped. I could go through all of them, as you are doing, but I don't see the point of doing it yet. After all, we could find out that they simply won't work again, or something. I'm pretty disappointed with what's happening on this matter so far, but I am trying to remain optimistic - I hope Tivo comes through for us, otherwise there will be quite a stink from many existing S1 users about this.

@gregfcarlson: S2/S3/HD users should try the reboot trick, to see if it works better after that. I see that you have done a reboot itself, but there may be more to the reboot-trick that fixes the DB or something. I don't know, I'm just guessing. Give it a shot and see if it helps... it appears to have helped all other non-S1 users.
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:30 PM   #162
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I don't think Tivo is taking this very seriously. If you call them their tech support people are unaware of the problem, even though according to TivoPony engineering has seen it. They botched suggestions permanently in the UK and just shrugged and wrote those customers off. This is shameful. If you're going to drop support for a product or service you have to give people fair warning, not keep billing them while you decide what to do.

Not a single S1 user on this board has come forward to say their suggestions are working. Can't we extrapolate something from that to the wider installed base? Perhaps the mods of this board can put a poll on the front page, so S1/S2 users who aren't actively seeking a solution to suggestions can report?
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:27 PM   #163
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Just wanted to finally add my input; I've been lurking on this thread for the past couple of months now, frustratingly awaiting an answer. We have two S1 boxes at our house, and they both stopped recording Suggestions at the same time in August; right when everyone else reported the problem starting. So I just wanted to add more evidence to the theory that *all* S1s are being affected. If it *were* just a small number of S1s affected, then what would the odds be that *both* S1s at our house being affected?

The behavior we are seeing is BSM. But the Suggestions haven't *completely* stopped; it's just that instead of recording 5 or 6 shows per day, it's recording like 1 show a month. Ever since the problem started, my S1 has recorded exactly three Suggestions. Moreover, they were poor Suggestions; all three were movies and I've *never* thumbed my TiVo to record movies. Previously, the TiVo always recorded very good Suggestions.

I love TiVo, but the Suggestions was a feature that I greatly valued, and I have to agree that TiVo does not appear to be taking this problem seriously. I'm a software engineer, and whenever our product has problems, we address it within days (if not hours), not months. The problem just can't be that hard to recreate, since it is so obviously widespread.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:06 PM   #164
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It's pretty clear now that this is not a random event. We've got the data point of when things stopped working and it's clearly affecting S1 users moreso than others. How much more info does TiVo need before they act?

I've always been a happy TiVo customer...an evangelist even, but I'm getting pretty steamed about the awful customer service here.

At the very least, they could move the tiny nugget of information that this is a known issue from this forum to the people who answer the phones. That's not rocket science.

If they can't do that, it's a wonder they can do anything, really.

Do we need to start tivosucks.com (in the vein of comcastsucks.com) before we can get the simplest of responses? This doesn't bode well for the company.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:04 PM   #165
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I have loaned my 2nd virgin S1 to a friend. He recently moved and the Tivo was disconnected for a few weeks during the move. Consequently, I can't tell for sure when his problems started.

I visited him this weekend and his Tivo is BSM. I can't tell for sure that it is NSR because he had let it fill up with season pass recordings.

I am willing to bet that he has all the same symptoms that the rest of the S1 owners here are reporting.

I know of another S1 owner and I will contact him to check his status and report back.
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #166
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Angry Tivo S3 quit recording suggestions and Seasonpass

Several weeks or months ago, I noticed my Tivo S3 quit recording any seasonpass or suggestions. I fiddled with it, rebooted, and had to go to every seasonpass entry, edit it and save it before it got back on the TO DO list. Things got back to normal and life went on.

Last weekend, I tried and was unable to erase a SeasonPass, so I just put it low on the priority list. However, my wife today informed me it did not record any Tivo suggestion since Oct-10, even though seasonpass recordings still worked.

I found this thread and noticed others have the same if not similar symptoms. I did the reset suggestions/reboot/contact server sequence (I also erased the 4.5 hour Olympic opening ceremonies just in case). After all this, I was able to get Seasonpass to delete the entry I had trouble with earlier, so something was changed by this procedure. I will wait to see if it records suggestions, but what a hassle....

The Tivo is malfunctioning, most likely a software bug in my opinion of some sort. If not understood and addressed, I believe it will come back again even if I resolved it today, like it did before.

-Mr Crackers

Edit: The procedure above did revive the Tivo S3; it now records Tivo suggestions, but as I stated above, if the problem is not understood and addressed, it will likely come back again.

Last edited by Mr. Crackers : 10-21-2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason: Follow-up status
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:27 PM   #167
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I wanted to add that I am an S1 Phillips user and have the same problem...blank suggestion screen and no recorded suggestions (well, very rarely...) This started around the same time...late August.

I cleared out all the thumbs and that did nothing. I only get suggestions when I thumb up a bunch of shows...but then they disappear with only a few shows randomly recording. I called Tivo support back at the end of September. The guy spoke with several techs and told me they hadn't heard of this ever happening before. He was no help at all.

For some reason Saved by the Bell randomly records as a suggestion. It has thumbs up, but it's never on the suggestion list.

I have a lifetime subscription and I really hope Tivo fixes this. I love the suggestion feature and I really miss it.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:39 PM   #168
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It's pretty clear now that this is not a random event. We've got the data point of when things stopped working and it's clearly affecting S1 users moreso than others. How much more info does TiVo need before they act?
Well on the UK tivo they wouldn't even update the software so suggestions would work. Hopefully this isn't something that requires a software update, because I don't think tivo would ever do it for an S1. I can see not adding features or even dropping tech support for S1, but when the device has one function (to record tv) and starts failing, the company has an obligation to fix it.

I would bet money that tivo knows what the problem is, and I would even go so far to say they probably knew before it happened. Either the guide data changed or they changed something to make suggestions fail, both of which should be easy to find out. If the guide data hasn't changed and they haven't changed anything, it's a little odd this would occur after 9 years to every S1 tivo, except the ones at tivo headquarters (allegedly).
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:09 PM   #169
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Add me to the list - S1-hacked BSM+NRS since August
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:12 PM   #170
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another S1 owner without a suggestion

Stock S1, BSM+NRS since August

I also have a lifetime subscription on my S1. If the suggestions feature does not eventually return, tivo will be in breach of that agreement. But I doubt it will come to that.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:35 AM   #171
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Just FYI, I got my second S1 (virgin, except for a Turbonet card) up and running as well on Sunday. It had been recently fully reset (clear and delete everything) and had it's guided setup/initial startup completed about 3 weeks ago. On Sunday evening, I downloaded all the new program guide data (it was all out of data) and then thumbed a bunch of shows (probably about 10-15).

On Monday evening, I checked the system again - one show in Suggestions Menu, only one show recorded (one I had thumbed already). I then added a few more thumbs (about 5).

On Tuesday eve, I checked the system again - only one show in the Suggestions Menu, a second show recorded (total of 2). Both recorded shows were thumbed-shows.

I plan to leave the machine alone for the next few days (ie, no more thumb-ing) to see what happens...

Of course, my main Tivo (hacked S1) still continues to show BSM and NRS...
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:55 PM   #172
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Since my TiVo S1 hasn't downloaded any software updates for YEARS, the only conclusion I can reach is there has been a change in the guide data that is incompatible with the suggestions algorithm. [speculation] Speaking as a software engineer, it is as if in August, we reached some numeric threshold beyond which, the TiVo is incapable of storing some descriptive value(s) used to identify suggestions. The bucket can't hold enough bits as they say. Since thumbing seems to generate suggestions which subsequently fade away after daily calls, the problem must lie in the guide data. I suspect TiVo people know all this and are dragging their feet because short of a full blown software update, there's no way to replace the bucket. The issue is probably not in the hands of their engineering team right now but rather their legal team to assess their potential liability before giving us a response we don't want to hear.[/speculation] I used to be active in the S1 underground but lately I just look at the device as more of an appliance. When my toaster stops working, I just replace it. If the company who made the toaster burns me on the deal, I just don't buy from that company any more. I just hope the folks at TiVo pull their finger out and give us an answer one way or the other as to whether our suggestions will ever work like they did pre-August.

Last edited by ChevyRon : 10-22-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:37 PM   #173
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[speculation] Speaking as a software engineer, it is as if in August, we reached some numeric threshold beyond which, the TiVo is incapable of storing some descriptive value(s) used to identify suggestions. The bucket can't hold enough bits as they say.
They've already confirmed that's the root cause of the problem for the UK S1 TiVos stopping recording suggestions. They claim there is "something else" causing the problem for US ones.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:46 PM   #174
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I too thought it was something along the lines of exceeding the maximum value some variable can store. Or perhaps they changed the way their data is formatted or they are receiving the data in some new format.

Either way, it shouldn't be too difficult to run the data through a conversion process so that it continues to work. Developers have known how to support older versions since the dawn of commercial software (although they sometimes have to be dragged kicking and screaming).

It's sad to see that TiVo is behaving in this way, since their brand in the past had been built on the same kind of respect for their customers as other brands with rabid fanbases. Perhaps they've finally gotten enough mainstream customers that they're planning on bailing on us. Might be time to close down the community forum that gives them so much free information/testing/feedback/advertising.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:10 AM   #175
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S1+larger drive+cachecard [BSM+NRS since august]

tried to clear suggestions, tried the suggestions off/reboot/on/reboot. still BSM, NRS.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:49 PM   #176
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They've already confirmed that's the root cause of the problem for the UK S1 TiVos stopping recording suggestions. They claim there is "something else" causing the problem for US ones.
I just found the UK thread on suggestions. What a bummer for those poor chaps. I wonder if they should all cut the thumb buttons off their remotes and mail them back to TiVo (won't be needing them anymore).
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:11 PM   #177
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So Im not really sure what is going on in here, but I have not had Tivo Suggestions since 10/15. Im not 100% sure but I think thats about the time I put my CableCARD back in. I repeated the guided setup and Im getting all my Season Passes just fine. I replaced the HDD in my THD with a smaller one yesterday to have the larger HDD in my PC since I am always on top of the Now Playing and still have had no Suggestions. Is this the same problem that has filled 8 pages of discussion here, or is mine something different?
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:57 AM   #178
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Looks like another week is going by with no new information from Tivo. Not good.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:47 AM   #179
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I just checked my suggestions list & it is 2 1/2 pages now. I will see if any of them record.
After going back & reviewing them, some of them were things that could be recording now. I went through & thumbed them & will see if any of them actually record.

Last edited by nmiller855 : 10-24-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 10-24-2008, 02:38 PM   #180
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@Lupin - I see you have a Tivo HD. The "reboot trick" should work for you to resolve your suggestions issue - give it a try. Most S2/S3/HD users have had success with this.

@nmiller - what did you do to get this to happen? Did you try some trick, or did it "just happen" on its own?
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