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Old 05-20-2008, 12:38 AM   #61
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Seems a little screwed up to me. Before signing in to Tivo web site the 3 year pre-pay of $299 is available, but after logging in it's not!? I know the $299 lifetime option is there, but lifetime is tied to that particular box only where 3 year pre-pay is not (can be moved to other boxes), so it would be good to have the 3 year pre-pay option still available as a current Tivo subscriber.
I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.

If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:52 AM   #62
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I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.

If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.
Good points. The $99/year offer I overlooked completely and is a suitable replacement option. That in addition to the $299 lifetime actually gives better MSD options than previously available.
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:44 AM   #63
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I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.

If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.
Perhaps its just an issue of TiVo eventually phasing out, or modifying the pre-paid plans; up until a few days ago, the lifetime wasn't offered in quite the same way, and maybe there are plans to either lower that price, or remove it altogether?
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:22 PM   #64
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Unless there's a contract, you always run the risk of the price of your subscription going up, but given a choice of paying the exact same price for a 3 year subscription and a lifetime one, I would always go for the lifetime one.

The current $299 Lifetime deal is much more palatable, albeit only available to current subscribers.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:08 AM   #65
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I got my TivoHD in February, and I am a little pissed about this price drop now. First off, I spent over $700 and was unable to get any reward points for it - annoyed...

Next, my TivoHD is hardly as amazing as my S2 Tivo. So far I've had to restart it around 4 times to fix video freezing errors, and it has reset itself another few times for who knows what reason - more annoyed.

Now, I see that the price for lifetime is $100 less. This is all adding up to me being pretty unhappy with my latest Tivo experience. Back with S2 I would brag to everyone how great Tivo is. Now, with my TivoHD, I tell people to just stick with their DVRs.


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Old 05-22-2008, 10:17 AM   #66
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Prices always drop, and you weren't able to get any "points" for your purchase because there is no such program anymore.

You shouldn't be having the hardware problems you are, but that's a matter for a different thread.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:30 PM   #67
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Prices always drop, and you weren't able to get any "points" for your purchase because there is no such program anymore.

You shouldn't be having the hardware problems you are, but that's a matter for a different thread.
True, true, and false. If I was alone with the problems I'd just replace it, but it seems there are a ton of people with the TivoHD having the exact same issues.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:45 PM   #68
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True, true, and false. If I was alone with the problems I'd just replace it, but it seems there are a ton of people with the TivoHD having the exact same issues.
And there are a ton more that are not.

Regardless of how many others are having the problem, my statement stands true: You shouldn't be having those hardware issues - it isn't operating as designed. (also, this is a debate for another thread)
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:19 PM   #69
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Given the Tivo australia development (no sub fee) and Motley fool's article regarding that, anyone think there is a chance Tivo US may get rid of the sub fee also down the line? If Tivo provides a free basic service, and a paid premium service, assuming having lifetime means you get the premium service, would you get the lifetime now?
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:12 PM   #70
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Under the current structure of TiVo Inc (as an independent corporation with the DVR business their core), i don't think they will offer any sort of free or reduced cost service beyond what they do now.

They will need to be bought out by some conglomerate that can subsidize the service, come up with a different business model, or significantly add advertisibg to the system, to offer a reduced cost or free service.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:19 PM   #71
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Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.

TiVo should offer a Tivo Lite where all you get is the guide and no extras. (like the stupid Music Plus videos, the 360 Radio stations and the Suggestions)
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:56 PM   #72
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Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.
There's a few fees associated with the guide data besides just licensing the guide data itself. TiVo leases a bank of phone numbers (though not as many as it used to) and it also is bound to have a huge monthly broadband service bill.

That said, I would think both things would be more than offset by the ads TiVo displays and the selling of anonymous user viewing information to 3rd parties.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:10 PM   #73
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Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs.
I haven't seen any that have listings 12 days in advance and with the level of detail that TiVo has, but there might be some.
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Old 05-24-2008, 02:30 PM   #74
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it also is bound to have a huge monthly broadband service bill.
The only reason they would have a "huge" broadband bill would be thru incompetence and stupidity. Of course, no shortage of that at TiVo. Internet bandwidth is almost "too cheap to meter". Remember that phrase from the early days of nuclear power?

But I really mean it. Too cheap to meter. For example, to transfer high volumes from Amazon's cloud you pay $0.10 per GB.

So, let's assume that TiVo is grossly incompetent (a realistic assumption) and assume that TiVo needs to transfer an entire Gigabyte of data to your box every month, just to keep your schedule up to date. Cost: 10 cents. Compare that to the $10/mo (more or less) that TiVo charges for each box.

And I really don't want to hear about all that Unbox crap, Cranky Geeks, whatever else TiVo wants to push at me. I don't want the cost of that bundled into my basic service.

In addition, let's say I have multiple TiVos in my house. Why can't they be smart enough to update their schedule from each other? For a household with 4 TiVos the monthly cost for schedule info: 2.5 cents each. Helps put that "multi service discount" into perspective, doesn't it?
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #75
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Maybe Tivo has a personal vendetta against you?
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:38 PM   #76
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Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.

)
What's the value of the interface? It's classic consumer marketing--the interface is a fixed cost that truly should be included in the price of the box. But it's more attractive to sell the box at a lower price with higher monthly payments than have the prices reflect the true costs, which would mean box prices of $100-200 more (to cover software) and monthly fees that are $5 instead of $10-15. Maybe tivo should confuse its plans more and offer a "semi-lifetime" plan for $200, but with monthly fees of $5 instead of whatever.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:00 PM   #77
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Drew, TiVo pays a monthly fee for each user to cover the Tribune service that gathers and packages up the guide data.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:40 AM   #78
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What's the value of the interface?
I value the interface at $29.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:42 AM   #79
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The only reason they would have a "huge" broadband bill would be thru

In addition, let's say I have multiple TiVos in my house. Why can't they be smart enough to update their schedule from each other? For a household with 4 TiVos the monthly cost for schedule info: 2.5 cents each. Helps put that "multi service discount" into perspective, doesn't it?
first off the guide data in itself is just text and obviously not a lot of data to transmit -especially when it is smartened up to just send new, changed,deleted info.

The cost is obviously in amintaing the hardware and software to send those updates and obviously TiVo would not just maintain one set for guide data and then replicate it all for all the spiffy new features you do not want. And tribune is smart enough to ask for payment per TiVo in use so sahring the guide data only decreases bandwidth by the small amount of text data.

So it is not the "bandwidth" but the systems to support the TiVo service that TiVo would have to cost out and come up with the business model to cover with a profit added in.

So if the monthly or lifetime service is something you think is being billed at too high a rate, why have you not switched to some alternative?
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:36 AM   #80
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Drew, TiVo pays a monthly fee for each user to cover the Tribune service that gathers and packages up the guide data.
I understand that . . . point being that the monthly cost to *Tivo* of my using the box I purchased is whatever that monthly fee is--probably $3-4 or so. But the monthly subscription is significantly more than that, which is because Tivo needs to cover its development costs for the software in the box as well as the box hardware. But the software is a fixed cost that once loaded is done--why should people pay monthly for it? The reason is that it allows tivo to charge a lower upfront box price.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:37 AM   #81
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I value the interface at $29.
Never used a Comcast DVR, eh?
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #82
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What's the value of the interface? It's classic consumer marketing--the interface is a fixed cost that truly should be included in the price of the box
Where did you get off saying that the interface is a fixed cost? Doesn't your Tivo get software updates?

On the other hand, I'm sure if you run Windows you're getting software updates for "free". Microsoft chooses to amortize the ongoing development costs into the fixed cost of the software. Tivo gives you a choice.

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I understand that . . . point being that the monthly cost to *Tivo* of my using the box I purchased is whatever that monthly fee is--probably $3-4 or so. But the monthly subscription is significantly more than that, which is because Tivo needs to cover its development costs for the software in the box as well as the box hardware. But the software is a fixed cost that once loaded is done--why should people pay monthly for it? The reason is that it allows tivo to charge a lower upfront box price.
As much as we'd like to think that computers run themselves, the reality is that they don't and there is an entire profession built around updating and maintaining computer systems (IT).

If you don't think so then go ahead and run your own DVR with free guide data on your PC. I guarantee you it won't be a one shot deal. You are going to have to maintain that system.

I personally run most of my own servers, but in the case of recreational video recording I outsource the job to Tivo. I have a lifetime sub, but even if I didn't I'd probably subscribe to Tivo because based on the hourly wage I earn it'd still be cheaper than doing it myself.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:39 AM   #83
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Where did you get off saying that the interface is a fixed cost?
Does the cost go up for every unit sold?

I agree they are always spending R&D money but by definition if it does not vary with quantity then it is fixed.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:49 AM   #84
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Support costs certainly go up with number of units.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:06 PM   #85
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I am really tempted to get a 2nd HD unit with the lifetime for $600. I have two Series 2 units with lifetime now (and another HD unit on the MSD monthly plan). How easy would it be to sell one of the Series 2 units to recoup some of my cost? I would probably sell the modified unit. I forget how much extra drive space there is but I think it was a 120G addition. I'd have to look that up.

I've never sold anything on ebay (bought stuff before) so I don't know how hard it is (especially since I'd have no reputation). Being able to get some money out of the old unit would go a long way toward convincing the wife that buying a new HD unit makes sense.

I don't see any option for upgrading my existing monthly unit to a lifetime. Am I missing something?
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:11 PM   #86
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To put it in perspective... a one-time nice dinner for two+ out can set one back by $50... and it's all out next day. Come on, just get life(time) !


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...
Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95* = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not
...

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Old 05-27-2008, 02:23 PM   #87
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To put it in perspective... a one-time nice dinner for two+ out can set one back by $50... and it's all out next day. Come on, just get life(time) !
I have 2 lifetime boxes and 6 active TiVo DVRs in my house so getting lifetime is not a block in itself. I just do not have a problem with paying monthly either and have 3 TiVo DVRs paying month to month with no contract at 6.95 a month.It is grandfathered and as long as I keep them in good standing the rate is not going up
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:29 PM   #88
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Well I called Tivo and changed my monthly HD to lifetime. I did not see a method for doing that online and wondered if they were allowing that. When the person asked if I wanted to do it, I just said yes. I hadn't really gotten to the point where I had decided but figured what the heck.

Then I asked about buying lifetime for a retail purchase which is also OK. Also not obvious to me poking around the Tivo site. I could see that I could buy one from them and pay $299.

So I bought one from Amazon (well from someone through Amazon's front end) for $226 new. So that will be here next week. So I just spent $826 on stuff that I hadn't even considered when I woke up this morning. Thanks a lot guys. Sheesh.

I hope that I can sell a Series 2 and get back $150-200 to bring that down...
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:59 PM   #89
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Is it possible to purchase the refurb HD web special for $199 from tivo.com with lifetime service for $299? I am not seeing this option even after I log into my tivo account.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:29 PM   #90
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Does the cost go up for every unit sold?

I agree they are always spending R&D money but by definition if it does not vary with quantity then it is fixed.
Yes, that was my point, if not well written/put. Technically the guide data is fixed cost, but since they license on per user basis, to tivo it's not.

Customer support does need to be in there, agreed, so add that to the guide data price.

Basic point still stands, though.
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