TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2008, 10:51 AM   #121
BobCamp1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by dig_duggler View Post
This story finally hit engadget.

Edit: How exactly is this legal? I realize the cable companies can pretty much do whatever they want and Tivo users are a drop in the pond, but doesn't this seem like a class action lawsuit (I hate bringing that up as much as often as it is thrown out around here)? There is not any technical reason to do this and it seems (on the surface) to be illegal. It seems there might be a reasonable (i.e. non threatening) way to bring this up to Brighthouse but I am not a lawyer....
Good question. They have to provide CableCards, and their set-top boxes have to have CableCards. Yet all those CableCards don't have to receive the same lineup information. Also, their set-top boxes with CableCards aren't the same as Tivo's -- the cards are not removable and they are regularly bypassed.

The FCC has done a bad job of regulating this. There are many loopholes -- as you've noticed. The FCC may need to issue clarifications, then follow up with fines.

As far as a lawsuit -- you signed the contract. You bought a third-party device with limited functionality. BHN has already offered a deal with these customers, and is supporting the magical SDV box. So you'd be suing BHN for the Tivo monthly fee for six months? That's around $100 total per person. Good luck.

Plus, who do you sue? I think you'd have a better chance suing Tivo for selling you a product with known but unadvertised limitations. But you'd eat up the $100 judgment (plus the cost of the SDV box, less than $100) on airfare to California (you'd probably have to sue them there).
BobCamp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 11:16 AM   #122
dig_duggler
losing enthusiasm
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
Good question. They have to provide CableCards, and their set-top boxes have to have CableCards. Yet all those CableCards don't have to receive the same lineup information. Also, their set-top boxes with CableCards aren't the same as Tivo's -- the cards are not removable and they are regularly bypassed.
Why would the cable cards not have to receive the same lineup information (barring technical limitations)?

Edit: I suppose the main point I'm trying to make is that there it would seem there is sufficient enough grounds against the local franchise that a lawsuit wouldn't be thrown out. It would then seem that the most prudent (i.e. least expensive) path for Brighthouse is to simply turn these channels back on. But I'm getting way ahead of myself (there's still other less expensive avenues to explore, the most effective one so far seeming to be the PR one). Lawsuits take money and willing participants and lots of time....

Last edited by dig_duggler : 02-08-2008 at 11:23 AM.
dig_duggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 01:05 PM   #123
bigdave2004
Registered User
 
bigdave2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 56
I think it would be be best as a company who runs a no asterisks campaign to not add asterisks to their HD service. I also think since they aren't running SDV this change should be as simple as adding the service tags for these new channels to all cable cards.
bigdave2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 01:55 PM   #124
celly
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 30
I think it's a fair assumption to make, that the majority of us knew that we'd loose, or not be able to access channels some day, until someone came out with an SDV CCard fix.

This is just BHN's way to get us back on their Boxes so that we can use their Premium Services instead of Tivo's or other 3rd party boxes. (ie. PPV vs. Amazon vs. New Apple/Windows Vista services) They can deny it, but there is simply no other reason..

The whole "We're just preparing you for something that will happen after the SDV fix is supposed to be available" excuse is BS. Because if that was true, they would of at least told their Customer Service reps (And even better yet -- Their Cable Card Users). Instead they tried to sneak it by what has proven to be a very well educated, and impressively organized group of tivo users.

No matter what, I won't let BHN win. I'll get rabbit ears, comcast, and DTV before I give them the pleasure of putting a HD box where my Tivo sits.
celly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 04:08 PM   #125
rickmeoff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDefGator View Post
You guys can file all the complaints that you want to file. It isn't going to make BHN stop deploying SDV just like every other cable company in America. It also isn't going to make them wait to deploy SDV because it breaks about 600 Tivo's in their service area. Have you not been following this process for the last year? Every month there is a new thread just like this one form a new city that has rolle dout SDV. None of the previous protests have had any affect at all.
looks like you're wrong about these protests being a waste of time, as this is actually getting quite a bit of notice. and some changes may go into effect because of these 'filed complaints.'

had everyone sat on their thumbs and kept their mouths shut, we would never know.
rickmeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 06:28 PM   #126
notnow117
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 37
i just scheduled installation of my free HD DVR, in addition to keeping my cable cards, for first thing monday morning. no changes to my billing. hopefully they just enable the channels at some point. i don't want that thing any longer than necessary.
notnow117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 07:14 PM   #127
Randman
Registered User
 
Randman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 18
Here is the letter I wrote to Bright House. I'm not sure if it will do anything, but if enough of us complain, hopefully something will happen.

Sirs:

I know you have heard from many customers, but I also wanted to let my disatisfaction be known in your decision to block channels to cablecard subscribers.

It is my understanding that at this time, Bright House has not implemented SDV. So, the decision to not provide the new HD channels, as well as remove previously available channels, was not made out of technical necessity. It was a decision made without basis.

Hopefully, by the time Bright House does switch to SDV, the new Dongles that allow TIVO and other cablecard using devices to receive SDV signals, will be available, and this will be a moot point.

You have the opportunity to resolve this problem in the customer's favor, and make lifelong Bright House customers. All it will take is allowing customers who are paying the same fees as other customers to receive the same services. Simple as that. Turn the channels back on, and when the time comes for switching over to SDV, we'll work together to utilize the new dongles.

I really do like Bright House. I have all three services you guys offer, and am pleased with 2/3 of them. The balls in your court. Let's see how we can resolve this issue!

Let me know what you will do about this.

Randman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 07:59 PM   #128
TiVoToo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 94
I sent a very similar e-mail 2 days ago. Here's the response I received from an Electronic Support Specialist (ESS):

Thank you for your correspondence regarding your Bright House Networks service. We apologize that the recent introduction of SDV (Switched Digital Video) HD channels is not compatible with your CableCARD device. SDV is a technology that will enable us to offer better HD service by allow us to efficiently utilize our cable network bandwidth. Unfortunately, CableCARDs do not support two-way communication which is required for SDV.

At this time, the National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) is working with equipment manufacturers, including TiVo, to develop an adapter that will allow CableCARDs to access SDV-broadcast channels. It is expected to be released in the second quarter of this year. In the meantime, we are offering an HD-DVR at no additional charge for our CableCARD subscribers that also have a TiVo box. This offer will be in effect until the adapters become available.


It then provides contact info.
It appears that members of the BHN organization are still misinformed as to the cause of the problem. This ESS thinks SDV is operational. At least this time they didn't blame TiVo like they did in response to my original complaint of a week ago.

Last edited by TiVoToo : 02-08-2008 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Added hyperlink
TiVoToo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 08:25 AM   #129
TomRaz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 261
What do you expect, it's Brighthouse

They have a pretty good overall product in my area but their communications within the company have always been very poor.

Maybe the issues in Orlando will help out customers in other areas that BHN serves.
TomRaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 11:32 AM   #130
bigdave2004
Registered User
 
bigdave2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoToo View Post
I sent a very similar e-mail 2 days ago. Here's the response I received from an Electronic Support Specialist (ESS):

Thank you for your correspondence regarding your Bright House Networks service. We apologize that the recent introduction of SDV (Switched Digital Video) HD channels is not compatible with your CableCARD device. SDV is a technology that will enable us to offer better HD service by allow us to efficiently utilize our cable network bandwidth. Unfortunately, CableCARDs do not support two-way communication which is required for SDV.

At this time, the National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) is working with equipment manufacturers, including TiVo, to develop an adapter that will allow CableCARDs to access SDV-broadcast channels. It is expected to be released in the second quarter of this year. In the meantime, we are offering an HD-DVR at no additional charge for our CableCARD subscribers that also have a TiVo box. This offer will be in effect until the adapters become available.


It then provides contact info.
It appears that members of the BHN organization are still misinformed as to the cause of the problem. This ESS thinks SDV is operational. At least this time they didn't blame TiVo like they did in response to my original complaint of a week ago.
I am going to send this to Mark (Sr. Brighthouse Field Ops) as he asked to fwd any reponses that I got from customer service that said the switch to SDV was done as we clearly know its not been done yet.
bigdave2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 06:59 PM   #131
JWThiers
Smartypants
 
JWThiers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave2004 View Post
I am going to send this to Mark (Sr. Brighthouse Field Ops) as he asked to fwd any reponses that I got from customer service that said the switch to SDV was done as we clearly know its not been done yet.
I haven't received that response in writing, But They are blaming any Cable card issues on the Tivo. I started my BHN Central FL (brevard) on the 2nd and in addition to the HD channels that are turned on, I also can't get CSPAN3 on Digital cable channel 197 (I get Channel not available) and CSPAN1 on Analog 97 and digital 195 (I get shopNBC instead on both). Makes me wonder what else is borked up, I only found the CSPAN thing because I was customizing my channels received list and was wondering how I missed a channel called SHOPnbc (I was unmarking the shopping channels).
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people out there.
Those that understand binary and those that don't.
JWThiers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 09:43 PM   #132
Goonhilly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
My Toshiba cablecard tv (Brevard county) is suffering the same ailments as discussed here: I did not gain the new HD channels; I'm missing some of the HD channels that I had last month; 146 and 147 are not present, and shopnbc occupies channel 97 instead of CSPAN, so it's not a TiVo specific problem.

By comparison, my BHN cable box behaves as it is supposed to.
Goonhilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 09:56 PM   #133
JWThiers
Smartypants
 
JWThiers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonhilly View Post
My Toshiba cablecard tv (Brevard county) is suffering the same ailments as discussed here: I did not gain the new HD channels; I'm missing some of the HD channels that I had last month; 146 and 147 are not present, and shopnbc occupies channel 97 instead of CSPAN, so it's not a TiVo specific problem.

By comparison, my BHN cable box behaves as it is supposed to.
I was expecting the missing/lost HD channels , but the missing Basic cable, digital cable was unexpected, for me at least. Thanks for that confirmation that it is NOT a TIVO only thing I am suffering, Like BH told me. Anyone else lose any Non HD basic cable channels?
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people out there.
Those that understand binary and those that don't.
JWThiers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 09:39 AM   #134
raymac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3
Missing Channels

I too have lost all of my non-HD basic channels. I get nothing below 1013 except 243 (HBO HD) and 259 (SHO HD). I also lost 1021, 1061, 1091, 1124-1127, 1150-1153, 1342, 1359 and 1361. This is on a new TIVO HD that was activated on 1/26/08. It all changed when they did the 5 channel addition.

Two techs have been out swapping cable cards - all s cards - to no avail. They say they have turned it over to engineering.

My Series 3 (about 15 months old) works as I expected, no new channels and nothing above 1341.
raymac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 06:12 AM   #135
eitingon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
It's a new week - let' keep our fingers crossed for a response. For those heading this up - let the rest of us know what we can do to help. Send letters? Emails? Something else? Thanks!
eitingon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 07:53 AM   #136
dkahs23
Registered User
 
dkahs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by eitingon View Post
It's a new week - let' keep our fingers crossed for a response. For those heading this up - let the rest of us know what we can do to help. Send letters? Emails? Something else? Thanks!
I would say everyone who hasn't sent a complaint via the Bright house web site do so. As a start.
dkahs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #137
RachelF
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkahs23 View Post
I would say everyone who hasn't sent a complaint via the Bright house web site do so. As a start.
Done. I am glad they have a place to do this on their website.
RachelF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:56 PM   #138
Okeemike
Tastes like lemons
 
Okeemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelF View Post
Done. I am glad they have a place to do this on their website.
Can you reply back what they offer you? They offered me a digital receiver, however others indicate they've been offered a HDDVR.
__________________
S3
HD
Series 2
Series 2 DT
Assorted other humans and animals
Okeemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 01:07 PM   #139
therlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 55
Free HD DVR, but it sounds like it's just the box and not the service.

Personally I think they should just turn the channels back on until they go SDV.
therlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 01:11 PM   #140
Okeemike
Tastes like lemons
 
Okeemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by therlin View Post
Free HD DVR, but it sounds like it's just the box and not the service.

Personally I think they should just turn the channels back on until they go SDV.
Agreed...totally. BHN is supposted to meet this week to discuss doing just that.
__________________
S3
HD
Series 2
Series 2 DT
Assorted other humans and animals
Okeemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 01:19 PM   #141
dkahs23
Registered User
 
dkahs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okeemike View Post
Can you reply back what they offer you? They offered me a digital receiver, however others indicate they've been offered a HDDVR.
Personally I think they should just turn the channels back on until they go SDV.[/quote]

I think they should give us some credit or a months free of service. I have heard anything from them myself.
dkahs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 01:48 PM   #142
JWThiers
Smartypants
 
JWThiers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,611
If it was just the upcoming SDV channels they turned off, thats one thing but when they also break other channels, it means they weren't ready to do the switch in the first place. Roll it back until they at least fix the other issues they caused. Then if the want to be stupid about it and block access to their customers..., they can deal with that when they are better prepared.
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people out there.
Those that understand binary and those that don't.
JWThiers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 02:59 PM   #143
notnow117
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by therlin View Post
Free HD DVR, but it sounds like it's just the box and not the service.

Personally I think they should just turn the channels back on until they go SDV.

It's free HD DVR and service. At least that's what I was told when I scheduled the installation. The rep said there would be no change to my billing.

On a related note, I had the DVR installed this morning... what a pain! Apparently I was only authorized to have 4 devices on my account (I have the 2 cable cards and 2 cable boxes), so the DVR made a 5th. All that meant for me was I had to acknowledge that I wanted a 5th device, but it meant the tech had to stay on the phone with BH for 45 minutes while they figured out how to add it to my account. What a waste of time for everyone. Wouldn't it be so much easier to just give me my channels back?
notnow117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 03:34 PM   #144
celly
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 30
In case anyone hasn't done so yet: Please email/call customer care about the situation and your displeasure about it.

Email: https://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/contac...tact_form.aspx
Cable Customer Care: 1-866-309-EASY (3279)
celly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 10:12 PM   #145
therlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 55
bigdave2004, any updates from Mark? I'm afraid that now that the weekend has passed, they feel less "PR pressure"
therlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 10:13 PM   #146
dkahs23
Registered User
 
dkahs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 114
We have to keep pressing forward with this.
dkahs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 10:22 PM   #147
dkahs23
Registered User
 
dkahs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 114
I just got a response from my complaint I filed with Brighthouse. This is what the said

Quote:
"Thank you for your email. As we expand our Cable line up, Bright House Networks and other cable operators plan to start using switched digital video to deliver certain channels. Switched digital video will allow cable companies to deliver more channels and services by making better use of the existing bandwidth.

We are aware that currently two TiVo models that use CableCards are not compatible with switched digital video channels, but TiVo and the cable industry are developing an external adapter to fix the problem. The adapter is expected to be released this year.

Bright House is allowing customers to trade in their CableCards for an HD DVR set-top box for free until they are able to view those channels on their TiVos.

You also have the option of keeping your CableCard ($2.95 monthly fee will still apply) and adding a free HD DVR.

If you would like to set up an appointment to trade in your CableCard for an HD DVR, please submit the request via the contact form below: "



dkahs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 11:29 PM   #148
celly
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by therlin View Post
bigdave2004, any updates from Mark? I'm afraid that now that the weekend has passed, they feel less "PR pressure"
Does anyone think we'd have a case if we started filing complaints with the FCC?

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints_general.html

"(1) deceptive or unlawful advertising and marketing (2) billing, privacy and service quality (3) disability access, (4) emergency and public safety, (5) media (general), and (6) other communications issues."

Might have a chance with (1) and (6)?
celly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 08:05 AM   #149
eitingon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
Complaint submitted online.

"Thank you for contacting us, and for your interest in Bright House Networks. We will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible. Using the online form provides faster response than sending an email."
eitingon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 08:32 AM   #150
therlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkahs23 View Post
I just got a response from my complaint I filed with Brighthouse. This is what the said
Notice they didn't say that SDV is the reason why we don't get the channels, and that any person using a CableCARD (not just TiVo owners) is not receiving the same channels. They are treating us like we are stupid.

*
therlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |