Standalone S3 impossible? I CALL BULLCRAP!

[Adam1115]

Can someone explain to me how a D-VHS can record HD but it's technologically impossible with a Series 3?

http://www.amazon.com/JVC-HMDH40000U.../dp/B0000ACY2B

[infinitespecter]

What are you talking about? The Series 3 can do virtually everything that this VCR can, better. The only thing it doesn't have is a firewire port for recording from cable boxes, but since it has cablecard slots, it doesn't need that.

[kdmorse]

The box you linked to records HDTV only via firewire - a relatively simple task. It cannot compress and record component inputs, or record from HDMI.

On the fly compression of HD is what's so difficult as to be impractical. This box doesn't have to do that due to it's limited input set.

-Ken

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by infinitespecter

What are you talking about? The Series 3 can do virtually everything that this VCR can, better except for recording from cable boxes via firewire. But since it has cablecard slots, it doesn't need that, unless you want to record SDV or On-Demand.

FYP.

Originally Posted by kdmorse

The box you linked to records HDTV only via firewire - a relatively simple task that the Series 3 can't do.

FYP.

[wierdo]

Well, to be pedantic, on the fly compression of HD was impractical in consumer gear a couple of years ago. In the next couple of years it should be available in a sub-$1000 box, presuming someone finds a market for it.

But as the others mentioned, a D-VHS VCR is like an S3 in that it saves the stream it's sent over Firewire, it doesn't compress component or HDMI inputs. I've long maintained that the S3 ought to have Firewire (and that the FCC should require satellite boxes include firewire), but it doesn't and won't, so there's not much point in whining about it now.

Edited to add: Most of the OnDemand programs on my cable system aren't recordable with a D-VHS VCR, either, FWIW.

[kdmorse]

Originally Posted by wierdo

Well, to be pedantic, on the fly compression of HD was impractical in consumer gear a couple of years ago. In the next couple of years it should be available in a sub-$1000 box, presuming someone finds a market for it.

Oh, the day will come, no doubt. There was of course a time when on the fly compression of SD was impractically expensive. In a few years time, we may well see a S4 or S5 that can manage the task with ease.

Originally Posted by Adam1115

The box you linked to records HDTV only via firewire - a relatively simple task that the Series 3 can't do.

Which while would be nice, is important to only a very small subset of the S3's potential customer base. It may be important to you, and I can't disagree with that. But the increase in cost that would be required for the box to be able to control an external STB, against the minimal benefit it would provide most users, just isn't worth it, and wouldn't be appreciated by the majority of user who have to bear the increased price. (Ok, that sentence got a little circular and redundant).

One of the major complaints about the unit you linked is that in todays world, it damn near can't record anything. Cable boxes (generally) won't pass the output of anything content protected out the firewire ports, and the few sat boxes that have firewire generally restrict it's output to a very small subset of channels. Engineering a new S3 just to fill a tiny unreliable niche just makes little sense at all.

-Ken

[infinitespecter]

Originally Posted by kdmorse

Which while would be nice, is important to only a very small subset of the S3's potential customer base.

I don't get why it would be important. I just don't see the need. The main use for recording HDTV from firewire is recording from a cable box or one or two really old over the air tuners, but the S3s internal ATSC and QAM tuners supplant the need for a box. Satellite receivers don't have firewire, so the only other source would be a camcorder, and the Series 3 isn't designed to do that.

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by Adam1115

FYP.



FYP.

Why would you need to record via Firewire with the TiVo? It already records direct from two tuners without Firewire.

VOD is not output via Firewire. Support for SDV today is the only potential benefit I see, but TiVo intends to accomplish that with a SDV adapter. The SDV adapter supports dual tuners and the ability to change channels directly; it also eliminates the need for a separate HDTV STB.

Firewire recording would be limited to a single tuner unless you had two inputs and two HDTV STBs, as well as two separate IR transmitters. I don't know anyone who wants to go back to IR control on a TiVo. There's also the problem that not all cable company boxes support Firewire; cable companies are only required to offer one device with functional Firewire, and many do not even do that -- this requirement is not enforced by the FCC.

No satellite boxes have Firewire, so you don't gain anything there.

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Why would you need to record via Firewire with the TiVo? It already records direct from two tuners without Firewire.

I don't really know, that's why I started a thread about it.

Originally Posted by bkdtv

VOD is not output via Firewire. Support for SDV today is the only potential benefit I see, but TiVo intends to accomplish that with a SDV adapter. The SDV adapter supports dual tuners and the ability to change channels directly; it also eliminates the need for a separate HDTV STB.

Sounds like it would benefit some, the Time Warner Hawaii people who have absolutely no HD anymore because it all moved to SDV for example...

[wierdo]

Originally Posted by kdmorse

One of the major complaints about the unit you linked is that in todays world, it damn near can't record anything. Cable boxes (generally) won't pass the output of anything content protected out the firewire ports, and the few sat boxes that have firewire generally restrict it's output to a very small subset of channels. Engineering a new S3 just to fill a tiny unreliable niche just makes little sense at all.

Sure they do (at least the cable boxes), it's just 5C encrypted. There are D-VHS recorders that are 5C compliant and can record most anything.

Granted, that's not much consolation if you're trying to use your computer to record stuff from Firewire. Cox was actually very good about only 5C encrypting a small subset of their channels anyway. (they're almost all scrambled though, there are only 10 or 12 clear QAM channels on the whole system here)

TiVo could surely be made 5C compliant and get keys, I just doubt whether it would be worth it. Few people would be willing to have two cable boxes in addition to the TiVo. I would if I couldn't get CCs or if Cox had deployed SDV already here, but I know I'm in the minority there. Most wouldn't be willing to suck up the extra $6.52 a month.