AudioVisual Sync Problems!

[saibari]

When I watch non-standard network channels I get really bad A/V synch problems--the video gets ahead of the audio. If I press PAUSE and then PLAY, it fast-forwards the audio so that it's caught up. It happens both on playback of recorded shows and on live TV. It happens a LOT on stations like Bravo, Comedy Central, Fox, FX, etc. I've had it happen only once or twice on my non-HD ABC soap. It doesn't seem to happen on the major network (ABC, CBS, NBC) channels and I've not noticed it on any HD programs. Last night I was watching Project Runway on Bravo and it happened literally every 5 min or so!!

It's DRIVING ME CRAZY! I have a surround sound system and 2 cable cards. I tried calling TiVo but they wanted me to fiddle with the connections and I had a Home Entertainment guy install it, so I don't want to fool with that. He'll be coming over in a couple of days and will call TiVo to troubleshoot at that time. TiVo seemed to think it was a problem that the TiVo box is not connected directly to the TV; it goes through the receiver. I wonder if any of you have had experience with this?

I frankly don't know if this is a TiVo problem or a Cox cablecard problem. I've not yet called Cox. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

[TexasAg]

Originally Posted by saibari

I frankly don't know if this is a TiVo problem or a Cox cablecard problem. I've not yet called Cox. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

Sounds like it is more likely your setup that is causing the problem. Running audio through a receiver and video directly to the TV can cause bad lipsync issues, such as when the receiver takes longer to process and output the audio data compared to the time it takes the TV to display the video data. Can you carlify if you do this (run audio to the receiver and video to the TV)?

Another possibility - the receiver could be struggling to up-convert the SD content and is somehow messing up the timing.

In any case, I'd hook the Tivo directly to the TV and see if that fixes the issue.

[BrianAZ]

Originally Posted by saibari

When I watch non-standard network channels I get really bad A/V synch problems--the video gets ahead of the audio. If I press PAUSE and then PLAY, it fast-forwards the audio so that it's caught up. It happens both on playback of recorded shows and on live TV. It happens a LOT on stations like Bravo, Comedy Central, Fox, FX, etc. I've had it happen only once or twice on my non-HD ABC soap. It doesn't seem to happen on the major network (ABC, CBS, NBC) channels and I've not noticed it on any HD programs. Last night I was watching Project Runway on Bravo and it happened literally every 5 min or so!!

It's DRIVING ME CRAZY! I have a surround sound system and 2 cable cards. I tried calling TiVo but they wanted me to fiddle with the connections and I had a Home Entertainment guy install it, so I don't want to fool with that. He'll be coming over in a couple of days and will call TiVo to troubleshoot at that time. TiVo seemed to think it was a problem that the TiVo box is not connected directly to the TV; it goes through the receiver. I wonder if any of you have had experience with this?

I frankly don't know if this is a TiVo problem or a Cox cablecard problem. I've not yet called Cox. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

Numerous other people are having this problem (myself included). My wife nearly threw the remote through the window during Project Runway as well. Are you in Arizona by chance?

[TexasAg]

Originally Posted by BrianAZ

Numerous other people are having this problem (myself included). My wife nearly threw the remote through the window during Project Runway as well. Are you in Arizona by chance?

That link seems to deal with HD sync problems. The OP has the opposite problem - it looks like the OP has SD sync problems.

[BrianAZ]

Originally Posted by TexasAg

That link seems to deal with HD sync problems. The OP has the opposite problem - it looks like the OP has SD sync problems.

For me it happens primarily on SD channels. The HD channels it happens on are limited to DiscoveryHD and occassionally MojoHD.

[saibari]

Originally Posted by BrianAZ

Numerous other people are having this problem (myself included). My wife nearly threw the remote through the window during Project Runway as well. Are you in Arizona by chance?

YES, I'm in Ahwatukee! And yes, I just found that thread and posted there. It seems several people have had luck in switching from 2 cable cards to the M-card. A couple of people did this in Nov. I'm hoping they'll check back in and let us know if the problem is still fixed.

I called Cox today and the tech "paired and upaired" the cable cards. She said that's all they can do with the cards remotely. She said if this doesn't fix the problem, to call her back. We'll see... I'll report back as to whether or not this helped. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!

Interestingly, the tech hadn't heard of this problem and didn't even know that M-cards are available and in use!

[saibari]

Originally Posted by BrianAZ

For me it happens primarily on SD channels. The HD channels it happens on are limited to DiscoveryHD and occassionally MojoHD.

Yep, my problems are almost entirely on non-HD channels...

[saibari]

Originally Posted by TexasAg

Sounds like it is more likely your setup that is causing the problem. Running audio through a receiver and video directly to the TV can cause bad lipsync issues, such as when the receiver takes longer to process and output the audio data compared to the time it takes the TV to display the video data. Can you carlify if you do this (run audio to the receiver and video to the TV)?

Another possibility - the receiver could be struggling to up-convert the SD content and is somehow messing up the timing.

In any case, I'd hook the Tivo directly to the TV and see if that fixes the issue.

Well, that's what TiVo wants me to try. The guy who installed my system is coming out on Monday to fool with it. But if the M-card will solve the problem, I'd hate to have him go through a bunch of reconnections for naught. I noticed in the other thread that a couple of people had spent over an hour at a time fooling with connections to no avail.

HOWEVER, I'm also a bit concerned about switching to the M-card and possibly causing new problems. But this audio/video synch problem is so severe that I'm willing to risk it!

[saibari]

The "unpairing and pairing" of my S-cards did NOT help! A Cox tech is coming out tomorrow. I requested that the tech bring an M-card. I truly hopes this solves the problem!

[BrianAZ]

I've not experienced the sync issue since switching to the M card. Several folks say that there is another problem with the M cards though where it will drop all channels every 2-4 days and you have to reboot to fix it. I just had the cards swapped Saturday and haven't experienced this "new" issue yet.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell your Tivo to reboot nightly? Looking for a way to mitigate impact of this other issue in case I start to see it.

Thx

[saibari]

Just want to report back that the Cox tech swapped out my S-cards for an M-card yesterday. So far no a/v synch problems! Though I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The tech mentioned the dropping channels problem they've been having with the m-card. He said it could be due to a bad cable line or connection. Of course, he thought that was the issue for the a/v synch problems too and was very doubtful that switching to the M-card would help. He was wrong about that. I don't understand why Cox isn't more knowledgeable about these issues. If I hadn't found this forum I'd still be pulling my hair out!

Anyway, hopefully I won't experience the dropped channels problem. I'll report back to let you all know how it goes. I'm just so THRILLED to be rid of the a/v synch issues--hopefully for good!

[xoclipse]

Originally Posted by BrianAZ

I've not experienced the sync issue since switching to the M card. Several folks say that there is another problem with the M cards though where it will drop all channels every 2-4 days and you have to reboot to fix it. I just had the cards swapped Saturday and haven't experienced this "new" issue yet.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell your Tivo to reboot nightly? Looking for a way to mitigate impact of this other issue in case I start to see it.

Thx

I just called Cox and they are coming out Friday to put a multi-stream card in. Hopefully it fixes the audio/video sync issues..its driving me crazy!

Have you noticed any new issues since you got your M-card Brian?

[BrianAZ]

Originally Posted by xoclipse

I just called Cox and they are coming out Friday to put a multi-stream card in. Hopefully it fixes the audio/video sync issues..its driving me crazy!

Have you noticed any new issues since you got your M-card Brian?

I'll say no, but with the caveat that I was only home for a day after the swap before heading out on a business trip. Other people have mentioned that there is an issue known to SA, Cox and Tivo (they're working on it appearantly) where some channels will become unavailable from time to time and a reboot fixes it for a few days.

I've not experienced that yet (or at least have not been home to see it, I return tomorrow) but in another thread I asked someone who has felt both issues (sync and channels dropping) and s/he said s/he felt the channels dropping was far less of an irritation than the sync issues. It'll likely be late but I'll try to report back tomorrow evening on what I find when I arrive home.

[johnf@home]

The sync problem definitely still occurs with M-cards - I've never had anything but M-cards, and I do see the problem.

I've seen it on a couple of recorded programs, too; if it shows up once then it will always occur, quite repeatably, when that program is played back. I haven't yet tried transferring a program with the error to my other TiVo HD to see if the problem occurs there, too (the only programs I've seen it on have been very large recordings, and until I get my faster wireless network set up it just takes too long to transfer an HD recording or a 6-hour tennis match).

If, as I suspect, the problem shows up repeatably on both TiVos then I'll see if TiVo want a copy for diagnostic purposes.

[xoclipse]

So a Cox tech came on Friday to give me the M-card.

The guy shows up and I explain my problem to him. He starts off by telling me that it has NOTHING to do with the Cablecard(I argued with him about it). He seemed to think that I had "signal issues".

He then went on to tell me I had too many televisions. I responded by saying, "You are telling me that having 5 or 6 boxes in the house is more than anyone else in this city?". He didn't really know how to respond and started rambling about the "infrastructure". He checked my signals out and they were fine...he didn't know what he was talking about.

I then convinced him to at least give me the M-card so maybe the Audio/Video sync issues would be fixed.

He installed the first card which didn't work and none of the Cablecard menus were loading. I asked him to try another card.

We tried another card and at least the Tivo was able to talk with it and the menus showed up. Then the tech had the EMM's sent and then the card stopped working. The cablecard menus no longer loaded. It receives the EMM's then stops working.

The tech goes and checks non-premium channels(probably not encrypted) and he sees that they work. He decides that it may take a few days to start working(I know this is ********). He tells me he has to go to another job and if I still have problems to call him.

After he left I called customer service and explained the situation. I told them that I can receive the channels I was getting without a Cablecard just fine and the card was probably bad.

The guy on the phone was nice and I had him hit me with some EMMs. I saw the Tivo get the EMM's. I went back and then tried to go back in the menu...no go. I concluded that the cablecard was probably bad.

I'm now waiting for them to come back out on Monday to try another M-card...

For the record, this was the most stupid tech I've come across. He rambled about everything and didn't really know what he was talking about. He was ignorant about cablecard and about people using their own boxes in general.

So right now no HBO/Cinemax for me...hopefully on Monday we can get it resolved.

Damn Cox!

[saibari]

Ok, so it's been one week now and the problem is still solved--no more audio/video synch issues! This switch to the M-card has also solved another problem, that I didn't realize was related: programs that were not supposed to be copyright protected were being recognized as such and deleting themselves. So, for example, Monk, Nip-Tuck, Boy Meets Grill, Easy Entertaining with Michael Chiarello (to name a few) would all sometimes delete themselves within 2 hours of being recorded! Aaargh! However, since switching to the M-card, this problem has also disappeared. Yay!

It does give me pause though that JohnF says he has a/v synch problems with an M-card. I certainly hope the problem doesn't re-surface. I'm also pleased to report that I've not experienced the dropped channel problem that some have reported with the M-card. Whew!

[saibari]

Sorry guys, I spoke too soon. Thankfully yes, the audio/video synch problems are still gone (hopefully never to return!) but... I am experiencing the dropped channels problem!

Has anyone found a fix for this? I have to say though, I'd much rather deal with this problem than the awful audio/video synch issues I was having!

But, frankly, this is ridiculous. Cox is upping my bill by $10 a month and this is the service I get?!

[Stockmiser]

I've had all the problems listed here...

- the spontaneous "fast forward' issue (solved by pausing or 30-sec back) - sometimes reproducible in the recording, sometimes not.

- occassional sound drop outs

- video and/or audio "freezes"

I have a Series 3 HD, I am on Cox (Gainesville, FL), I use a single M-Card (for 2 channel tuning).

My observations (former tech support guy, fwiw)

- I do not believe this has anything whatsoever to do with "HDMI" video/audio sync issues, or reciever issues - I don't use HDMI, and the composite sound messes up in the same exact way as the optic connection.

- I have a local friend who has been on TIVO HD for over a year and he says that all of these issues started when Cox introduced its new method of HD broadcasting - SD?

- I've checked (and double checked) all the obvious - cabling issues, reception quality. I have 2 other Tivos (non-HD) and this problem does not occur using the same connection.


My suspicion is that something has changed in the digital braodcasting as these cable companies are attempting to role out more HD channels, and either the firmware in the cable cards and/or the decoding software is having a problem with the new stream format. When these problem occur they also seem to eat up system resources. I've noticed times when the Tivo seems to be running "slowly" - I get a lot more problems, especially freezes.

The only thing that seems to work consistantly is rebooting the Tivo. After a reboot, everything seems fine - I've actually watched 2 hours movies without a single problem - but only after a reboot. Eventually the problem returns. Which seems to confirm that at some level it's probably a software problem - probably related to changes in the cable company's output, possibly related to the digital card firmware - ultimately solvable via software upgrades...

IMHO...

[bizzy]

You don't have a Series 3 if you're successfully using a single M card.

[saibari]

Well it seems to me that both TiVo and Cox should take the onus to figure out what the problem is. It's ridiculous that we consumers have to hunt around for the fixes! And then Cox has the nerve to raise my rates by $10 per month!

[saibari]

Originally Posted by bizzy

You don't have a Series 3 if you're successfully using a single M card.

I use a single M-card and the other day I specifically asked the TiVo rep if what I have is a Series 3 TiVo and she said yes. I have the less expensive version of their HD TiVo ...

[BrianAZ]

Aren't the "Series 3" and TivoHD both technically "Series 3" technology?

[CrispyCritter]

Originally Posted by saibari

I use a single M-card and the other day I specifically asked the TiVo rep if what I have is a Series 3 TiVo and she said yes. I have the less expensive version of their HD TiVo ...

You're running in to the idiosyncratic language of this forum; it's not your fault (we really have to change here!). Both models are Series 3 TiVo HDs. The early expensive model (S3/648) is called an S3 here since it was the only model around when it came out. The newer model (TiVoHD/652) is called a TiVo HD or THD, even though it is also an S3.

[aztivo]

I am in Chandler AZ and have both the THD and a S3 and was having the stuttering problems on channels below 100 on my THD I got an M-Card 4 days a go no problems so far (as soon as I put it in I got the message saying it needed a firmware update) I have gone through 7 stand alone cards on my S3 and nothing has fixed the problem.

[xoclipse]

Originally Posted by saibari

Sorry guys, I spoke too soon. Thankfully yes, the audio/video synch problems are still gone (hopefully never to return!) but... I am experiencing the dropped channels problem!

Has anyone found a fix for this? I have to say though, I'd much rather deal with this problem than the awful audio/video synch issues I was having!

But, frankly, this is ridiculous. Cox is upping my bill by $10 a month and this is the service I get?!

I have my TivoHD working with one M-card...and the audio/video sync problems are gone. Unfortunately now I am having the same issue as you with the dropped channels. It seems like every day or two none of the channels work...just a black screen. Restarting the Tivo fixes this though. Its pretty inconvenient though because if it drops the channels I end up with blank recordings...

I'm really hoping that this issue can be fixed with the firmware on the CableCards....

[xoclipse]

Hey,

After all my CableCard frustration...I created a site to centralize all of our CableCard/Tivo issues.

Here is the page that I filled in for my issues in Cox Phoenix:

http://cablecard.tech9computers.com/ccwiki/CoxPhoenix

The main site is at:
http://cablecard.tech9computers.com/ccwiki/FrontPage

[saibari]

Thanks for the "Series 3" clarification CrispyCritter and for sharing your experience, xoclipse. I'm a bit concerned though. Earlier today I was reading on another thread (don't recall which!) that Cox is using some new type of digital transmission in order to offer more HD channels, but that this is not compatible with cable cards. Therefore, we experience the dropped channel problem and we're left out in the cold and can't receive the new HD channels. Do you all know anything about this? This hardly seems right! If this is the case, we should certainly pay less for our service than non-cable-card users...

<sigh> Had I known all this I would've not gone with TiVo at all! It seems so limiting in terms of service options...

[Stockmiser]

Yes, thanks for that clarification. My friend has the expensive S3, and I have the cheaper S3. He uses 2 cards and I use 1 card.

We've both experienced similar problems.

The new thing Cox is doing to get more channels (SHD?) did have the effect of not working on the Tivo HD - but that was apparently solved about a month ago.

But while we now get those channels, that allows apprears to be the time that the sync problem started on my friend's HD unit.

I've always had the sync problem - but I got my unit after the Cox upgrade.

[saibari]

Originally Posted by Stockmiser

Yes, thanks for that clarification. My friend has the expensive S3, and I have the cheaper S3. He uses 2 cards and I use 1 card.

We've both experienced similar problems.

The new thing Cox is doing to get more channels (SHD?) did have the effect of not working on the Tivo HD - but that was apparently solved about a month ago.

But while we now get those channels, that allows apprears to be the time that the sync problem started on my friend's HD unit.

I've always had the sync problem - but I got my unit after the Cox upgrade.

Wow, I'm sorry you're experiencing the synch problems with the M-Card. Maybe you should try swapping the card out with a new M-card. I just did this yesterday to see if it will help with my dropped channels problem. Too soon to tell if it will help. It has helped what may be a related problem--I wasn't receiving certain "expanded" channels (23 through 50's range) that I should've been receiving.

By the way, the Cox tech (who seemed to know what he was talking about) said that neither issue is due to any changes in the broadcasting of the channels. He did say that the dropped channels issue is a known problem that Scientific Atlanta has been working on for 3 weeks. I finally got a TiVo tech the other day who said that this dropped channels problem is a known issue in some markets (I'm in Phoenix). The tech took down some data from me that I read off of the cable card diag screen. He couldn't say when the problem will be fixed!

Frankly, this is totally unacceptable! When I pay for a service I expect it to work if not flawlessly, then with just an occasional problem here and there. I wonder if people with cable, satellite, and direcTV DVR's are experiencing persistent problems...

[gmofaz]

Well, I live in south Tempe and have a THD with two S-cards. I have been living with the stutter problem wondering how to get it resolved. Cox did an equipment upgrade late last year, and it seemed like that was when most of my problems started to happen.

So I'll continue to monitor this thread to see how those of you with M-Cards make out before I try making the switch myself. I do appreciate those posting their experiences in trying to work through this. I had to go through five S-cards when I initially got my THD. It can very tiresome explaining the same problem over and over, yet not making any real progress in the end.

Cheers,
Garry