Liberty Comments about the D* deal

[RS4]

I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV.

Here is a link to skyreport: http://www.skyreport.com/

Puerto Rico Overlap Hinders Liberty/DIRECTV Deal
Concerns about Liberty Media's presence in Puerto Rico, which may become a big deal for regulators if the company acquires a controlling stake in DIRECTV and maintains its cable operations on the island, appears to be holding up approval of the big DBS deal.

[ebonovic]

So.......

Where does the TiVo aspect play into the fact that the stock swap is still in regulatory-hell ?

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by RS4

I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV.

I would agree that there might've been some hope in the beginning, when the R15 and HR20 were plagued with problems.

But they've invested a LOT of money in the HR20/21. The DVR is pretty competitive with TiVo, sure we can argue that TiVo is better, etc. But they are launching MRV and DirecTV to go features, expandable hard drives, video on demand. Many of this stuff was NEVER available on a DirecTiVo system, and you could make they argument that a Series3 for DirecTV would be stripped down. (No TTG, MRV, Rhapsody, HME, etc.) Many people have posted that TiVo didn't want to deliver a 'full tivo experience' to directv because it would dip into standalone sales...

ETA- also, I doubt liberty is going to take an emotional TiVo is better stance. Looking purely at the numbers, demand for the HR20/21 has been high and their subscriber numbers have been steadily increasing. What motivation do they have to make a change?

[RS4]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

So.......

Where does the TiVo aspect play into the fact that the stock swap is still in regulatory-hell ?

I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over. I'm merely pointing out the latest information that I found on the internet.

I find it amusing (and expected it) that here I am trying to post an update in a Tivo forum about something which may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users and you folks are already over here telling me how stupid that is.

Do you guys feel the need to purge us out by a certain date? Are you all hoping we will just go away so you don't have to read a positive thought about a Tivo or heaven forbid, one of us pointing out a concern about the other products?

Sheesh, can't you let us discuss something just once without all of the HR20 stuff?

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by RS4

I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over.

But the take over will not impact tivo in any way, for the reasons pointed out above.

[ebonovic]

Originally Posted by RS4

I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over. I'm merely pointing out the latest information that I found on the internet.

I find it amusing (and expected it) that here I am trying to post an update in a Tivo forum about something which may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users and you folks are already over here telling me how stupid that is.

Do you guys feel the need to purge us out by a certain date? Are you all hoping we will just go away so you don't have to read a positive thought about a Tivo or heaven forbid, one of us pointing out a concern about the other products?

Sheesh, can't you let us discuss something just once without all of the HR20 stuff?

I am just asking how the take over by Liberty... has ANY impact on the TiVo aspects of the service.
As you state.. it "may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users "

Please explain HOW... what concrete evidence do you have, that the Liberty take over will have any impact on the aspect of the TiVo, Inc platform being part of the DirecTV lineup again?

Has Liberty in any other press released stated the moment they take over they are going back to TiVo.... or is it the faint hope that at one time Mr. Malone like the TiVo platform, that keeps the glimmer there?

You do know that the CEO of DirecTV Group isn't changing after the merger right?
You do know that Liberty is a big holding company of a lot of other companies right?
You do know that DirecTV Group, just spent a serious amount of money to purchase TiVo #1 Patent rival, ReplayTV... right?


And to the other point of your reply.....
Do you constantly feel the urge to attack those of us, that are asking you a simple question?

You could have just left it at.... there is still a glimer that Liberty will bring TiVo back... and that is why it is important... but yet you decided to take another swing at me...

And another question for you.... where did I mention the HR20 or the HR21 in my post?
I was asking what type of impact that has for the TiVo question.... is that a fair question based on the post you made....

[RS4]

Originally Posted by Adam1115

But the take over will not impact tivo in any way, for the reasons pointed out above.

Gosh, I should become really close with you. I see you have an inside track to what's going on, where I'm just a mere observer

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Adam1115

Looking purely at the numbers, demand for the HR20/21 has been high and their subscriber numbers have been steadily increasing. What motivation do they have to make a change?

Well, one could argue that demand for the HR20/21 is not high, but demand for a DirecTV HD-DVR is high, the HR2* is now the only game in town...

Possible reason why Liberty would be interested in getting back together with TiVo? Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through? What if TiVo came to them with a better deal?

Personally, I don't think it will happen - as much as I love(d) my TiVos, I just don't the company is run well enough to actually succeed in the long term.

[ebonovic]

Originally Posted by Cooper

Well, one could argue that demand for the HR20/21 is not high, but demand for a DirecTV HD-DVR is high, the HR2* is now the only game in town...

Possible reason why Liberty would be interested in getting back together with TiVo? Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through? What if TiVo came to them with a better deal?

Personally, I don't think it will happen - as much as I love(d) my TiVos, I just don't the company is run well enough to actually succeed in the long term.

Considering DirecTV OWNS the HR20/21 technology (since they wrote it), I would think the cost to license it... would be zero.

Now the R15 series, that is different since that is build by NDS.

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by Cooper

Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through?

From themselves?

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

Now the R15 series, that is different since that is build by NDS.

Ah, yes... my mistake. Then let me rephrase... I'd guess there's zero chance that TiVo could make a better deal than $0 with Liberty.

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by RS4

Gosh, I should become really close with you. I see you have an inside track to what's going on, where I'm just a mere observer

I don't have to have an 'inside track' to know how a corporation works or to read up on the subject. Also, you're the one that talked about waiting for some kind of TiVo / DirecTV partnership, what is your inside track to what's going on? Because there doesn't appear to be ANY comments from Liberty on this subject.

The CEO of DirecTV (whoever that is) has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stock holders. If a CEO decided that he was going to scrap a DVR that DirecTV spent millions of dollars developing, that works fine, and is saving them money because 'he likes tivo better', I think there would be some serious questions from the stockholders.

Like I said, it's not like the DVR is problematic, or is costing them subscribers. As it stands now, the HR20/21 has more features than a DirecTiVo ever had. And I'm saying this as someone who LEFT directv to stay with TiVo. You never saw MRV, TTG, HMO/HME on a directivo even though it's been out for YEARS, yet now you're seeing it on the HR20/21 platform.

I bet if they did 'switch back to tivo' you'd read a lot of angry people on the DBSTalk board about how they're losing MRV, DirecTV to Go, etc.

[RS4]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

I am just asking how the take over by Liberty... has ANY impact on the TiVo aspects of the service.
As you state.. it "may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users "

Please explain HOW... what concrete evidence do you have, that the Liberty take over will have any impact on the aspect of the TiVo, Inc platform being part of the DirecTV lineup again?

Has Liberty in any other press released stated the moment they take over they are going back to TiVo.... or is it the faint hope that at one time Mr. Malone like the TiVo platform, that keeps the glimmer there?

You do know that the CEO of DirecTV Group isn't changing after the merger right?
You do know that Liberty is a big holding company of a lot of other companies right?
You do know that DirecTV Group, just spent a serious amount of money to purchase TiVo #1 Patent rival, ReplayTV... right?


And to the other point of your reply.....
Do you constantly feel the urge to attack those of us, that are asking you a simple question?

You could have just left it at.... there is still a glimer that Liberty will bring TiVo back... and that is why it is important... but yet you decided to take another swing at me...

And another question for you.... where did I mention the HR20 or the HR21 in my post?
I was asking what type of impact that has for the TiVo question.... is that a fair question based on the post you made....

Earl, I posted the update for those folks that were curious about what was going on in the merger. There have been many comments in these threads for several weeks asking about news of the merger. I purposely made no comment or expressed no opinions beyond that. But yet, you (and the next guy) jump all over me like I'm starting something about new Tivo - D* rumors.

You read these forums a lot - my guess is daily. And you surely have to know that a lot of us are looking for some official word about future relationships. There has been nothing pro and nothing con about a relationship. In fact, both companies have offered mixed hints, yet nothing official.

As long as nothing has been stated officially, then there is still the nagging questions for those of us who will use that fact as part of our decision-making strategies.

My gosh, why can't you guys just let me post a simple news article without jumping all over me?

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by RS4

Earl, I posted the update for those folks that were curious about what was going on in the merger. There have been many comments in these threads for several weeks asking about news of the merger. I purposely made no comment or expressed no opinions beyond that. But yet, you (and the next guy) jump all over me like I'm starting something about new Tivo - D* rumors.

You read these forums a lot - my guess is daily. And you surely have to know that a lot of us are looking for some official word about future relationships. There has been nothing pro and nothing con about a relationship. In fact, both companies have offered mixed hints, yet nothing official.

As long as nothing has been stated officially, then there is still the nagging questions for those of us who will use that fact as part of our decision-making strategies.

My gosh, why can't you guys just let me post a simple news article without jumping all over me?

Nobody is jumping all over you, just asking about your comment, "I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV. "

Who is waiting and why? There is simply no evidence of any 'tivo relationship' unless you know otherwise. The article you linked says nothing about TiVo, so it's a fair question.

[RS4]

Originally Posted by Adam1115

I don't have to have an 'inside track' to know how a corporation works or to read up on the subject. Also, you're the one that talked about waiting for some kind of TiVo / DirecTV partnership, what is your inside track to what's going on? Because there doesn't appear to be ANY comments from Liberty on this subject.

The CEO of DirecTV (whoever that is) has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stock holders. If a CEO decided that he was going to scrap a DVR that DirecTV spent millions of dollars developing, that works fine, and is saving them money because 'he likes tivo better', I think there would be some serious questions from the stockholders.

Like I said, it's not like the DVR is problematic, or is costing them subscribers. As it stands now, the HR20/21 has more features than a DirecTiVo ever had. And I'm saying this as someone who LEFT directv to stay with TiVo. You never saw MRV, TTG, HMO/HME on a directivo even though it's been out for YEARS, yet now you're seeing it on the HR20/21 platform.

I bet if they did 'switch back to tivo' you'd read a lot of angry people on the DBSTalk board about how they're losing MRV, DirecTV to Go, etc.

I could care less about the HR20 as the rest of you. I've pretty much made up my mind on that issue.

Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. But, I would assume we would get some sort of sign official or otherwise as to what is going on between the 2, especially shortly after Liberty takes over. So, the purpose of the thread was to just point out the latest news article about the 2 companies for others like me that are interested in the matter.

[Adam1115]

Originally Posted by RS4

I could care less about the HR20 as the rest of you. I've pretty much made up my mind on that issue.

Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. But, I would assume we would get some sort of sign official or otherwise as to what is going on between the 2, especially shortly after Liberty takes over. So, the purpose of the thread was to just point out the latest news article about the 2 companies for others like me that are interested in the matter.

I hear ya, I would love to hear about a Series3 DirecTiVo, trust me, I'm a huge TiVo fan.

I wish the HR20 was still the piece of crap it was when it came out, and DirecTV was experiencing huge loss of subscribers because if it. But since that's not the case, I just can't see it happening. They've spent way to much money.

I think TiVo should try to 'sell' them on going back to the OLD days of DirecTiVo. TIVO sells it, TiVo makes it, TiVo supports it. You want TiVo and directv? You pay TiVo $12.95/mo and DirecTV for the service. Then TiVo kicks up a % to DirecTV. Then DirecTV can still advertise and push their own cheaper DVR and TiVo fans can buy a TiVo.

[shibby191]

Originally Posted by RS4

Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be.

Ummm, the official announcement was over 3 years ago. Tivo will no longer develop new receivers for DirecTV. Done deal. It's over.

Tivo however still supports the stock of DirecTivo's that are out there with bug fixes and updates. That support contract runs for a couple more years and I'm sure will be renewed. So if a renewal of a support contract constitutes a "new" relationship between Tivo and DirecTV then there you have it.

[DAVIDGR]

Geez! So RS4 didn't have any real news about the DVR. Big deal. All he wanted to do was post an article about regulatory problems with Liberty.

• Is it directly related to this forum? No.
• Might it be "interesting" to some readers? Perhaps.

Maybe all he wanted to do was raise his post count. By coming down so hard on him everyone is making this more important than it really is. Let's close this topic (now that I've added my two cents) and move on to other things!

[cowboys2002]

To the OP RS4,

The reason folks are getting on your case as you put is, is because:

In your initial post and thread title you stated
"
Here is a link to skyreport: http://www.skyreport.com/


Quote:
Puerto Rico Overlap Hinders Liberty/DIRECTV Deal
Concerns about Liberty Media's presence in Puerto Rico, which may become a big deal for regulators if the company acquires a controlling stake in DIRECTV and maintains its cable operations on the island, appears to be holding up approval of the big DBS deal"

essentially the trhead title says one thin. But within the post you mention the Tivo "relationship". The Tivo relationship was severed 3 years ago and only recently renewed to existing boxes and continued support.

You started this thread as if the sky report actually had some GOOD information, then ened with your last post of

Posted by RS4:

"Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. "

Since you didn't really provide any new information, you could have really just used one of the many existing threads on the subject to "update" us on literally "nothing".

[JohnB1000]

What exactly is the problem with Puerto Rico ???

[RS4]

Originally Posted by Adam1115

I hear ya, I would love to hear about a Series3 DirecTiVo, trust me, I'm a huge TiVo fan.

I wish the HR20 was still the piece of crap it was when it came out, and DirecTV was experiencing huge loss of subscribers because if it. But since that's not the case, I just can't see it happening. They've spent way to much money.

I think TiVo should try to 'sell' them on going back to the OLD days of DirecTiVo. TIVO sells it, TiVo makes it, TiVo supports it. You want TiVo and directv? You pay TiVo $12.95/mo and DirecTV for the service. Then TiVo kicks up a % to DirecTV. Then DirecTV can still advertise and push their own cheaper DVR and TiVo fans can buy a TiVo.

Yes, your suggestion makes too much sense, so that's bound to turn off people for some reason. Why not have the best of both worlds - if Tivo wants to build, market, and support it, you would think they could come to some kind of revenue sharing stream where they and we as customers could benefit. At the same time, D* could continue marketing their house-brand dvrs for the masses that don't care about the Tivo.

[RS4]

Originally Posted by JohnB1000

What exactly is the problem with Puerto Rico ???

According to the article, I believe that Liberty owns the cable company (or a mjority of it/them) and this would become a monopoly.

[shibby191]

Originally Posted by RS4

Yes, your suggestion makes too much sense, so that's bound to turn off people for some reason. Why not have the best of both worlds - if Tivo wants to build, market, and support it, you would think they could come to some kind of revenue sharing stream where they and we as customers could benefit. At the same time, D* could continue marketing their house-brand dvrs for the masses that don't care about the Tivo.

What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo. There is ZERO incentive to try to make a deal with Tivo. None. Period.

[RS4]

Originally Posted by shibby191

Ummm, the official announcement was over 3 years ago. Tivo will no longer develop new receivers for DirecTV. Done deal. It's over.

Tivo however still supports the stock of DirecTivo's that are out there with bug fixes and updates. That support contract runs for a couple more years and I'm sure will be renewed. So if a renewal of a support contract constitutes a "new" relationship between Tivo and DirecTV then there you have it.

Yes, one could assume that this is a 'done deal' as you suggest. However, keep in mind that DirecTV and Tivo have in fact signed a renewal contract in that time. Why - my guess is because D* didn't want to be sued by Tivo like E* had been, but I don't know that for sure.

The other thing to remember is the our DTivos are actually being updated this month with some new features. This was certainly not planned 3 years ago. Yogi Berra used to have some saying I think about 'it's not over 'til its over' or something like that. So, until I see some official announcement to the contrary, I will maintain an interest (and hope).

[RS4]

Originally Posted by shibby191

What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo. There is ZERO incentive to try to make a deal with Tivo. None. Period.

That of course is just absolutely not true. You all talk about the growth that D* is having - and there is no doubt about it, but what I think you miss is how much more would they be growing if they had both dvrs?

And of course, there are many Tivo users like myself that have already or soon will follow Tivo instead of D*. Are we in big numbers? No I doubt it very strongly. But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV. I had been responsible for 9 DTivos in the past - all customers that D* would not have gotten if it had not been for me.

So, the reality is they are losing customers and/or not gaining them as fast if they had 2 products or allowed both products. I admit they are very small numbers, but they are still there nevertheless.

And of course one could come up with several different scenarios - some already put forth in this thread - in which the customers and both companies could benefit.

This appears to me to be much more then $. I think it's more about controlling the customer. DirecTV has become somewhat of a bully in the last couple years. I think they are taking the stance that they want to own the customers. Only time will tell if that strategy will work.

[badmonkey]

Originally Posted by RS4

... But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV...

So you're convincing people not to use DirecTV based on your unfounded opinion that the HR2x is bad??? Unless something has changed, you've still NEVER EVEN USED ONE! I wonder if these people you're talking to realize that you have absolutely no basis for your opinion...

[RS4]

Originally Posted by badmonkey

So you're convincing people not to use DirecTV based on your unfounded opinion that the HR2x is bad??? Unless something has changed, you've still NEVER EVEN USED ONE! I wonder if these people you're talking to realize that you have absolutely no basis for your opinion...

Tell ya what... you give me the $480 + the lease fee and I will be glad to try it out in my home for 30 days. I don't even need the new satellite dish and mpeg4.

Isn't it amazing that people make up their minds about something without even trying it? Just like the raving reviews that folks are giving to the OTA HR21 addition. Have any of them actually tried it? Heck no, most of them have not even seen it, but yet they're falling all over each other in admiration of what a fine product that D* has put out. What does some one on here say about lemmings...? Hmm..

[MurrayW]

Originally Posted by RS4

...Yogi Bear used to have some saying I think about 'it's not over 'til its over' or something like that. So, until I see some official announcement to the contrary, I will maintain an interest (and hope).

I think you have your Yogi's confused. Although Yogi Bear was "smarter than the average bear", it was Yogi Berra who is attributed with that quote.

[RS4]

Originally Posted by MurrayW

I think you have your Yogi's confused. Although Yogi Bear was "smarter than the average bear", it was Yogi Berra who is attributed with that quote.

Oh yeah... I knew it was Yogi somebody or other.

[nrc]

Originally Posted by shibby191

What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo.

Actually they are. I know this for a fact. Just not enough of them that they have to care about it right now.