Comcast Tivo DVR Service Focus Group - Any inputs??

[markp99]

I was invited by Comcast to participate in a focus group next week with 7-8 others in my area to discuss the Comcast TiVo. I've had the unit for a couple months (sitting beside a Series 3 unit) for evaluation.

It should be interesting to get a chance to discuss the points I like and dislike about the unit and service.

If you have any topics you'd like me to raise, post them here. I'll be sure to bring them up. I'm not sure if I expect much to come from focus group discussions (I expect more marketeering discussions than technical), but it can't hurt to make our questions/opinions heard.

[Eitel]

I guess I'll see you next week then.

[markjrenna]

Since I don't have a Comcast TiVo...

If you can pass this on...

I would like Comcast to have a specific (TiVo) support number so more advanced customers that use TiVo could speak to qualified individuals within Comcast.

It would be nice if we could speak with Comcast Support that understand what we are telling them.

Thanks! Let us know the results of this Focus Group.

[NailStorm]

Thank you for extending this offer. I am on the 'list' for receiving the upgrade but haven't gotten it yet (Sandown, NH)

Here are a list of my questions/comments.

1. MRV (Multi-Room Viewing)
I heard a rumor a while back that MRV would be eventually implemented but not using ethernet, instead over the existing cable lines for other rooms with digital cable converter boxes. Basically a channel which could access the 'My DVR' section of your DVR if you have one at the same household. Kind of like a local version of On Demand. I would like to know if we will see MRV.

2. 30 second skip
I use the 6412 code to enable 30 second skip on the Comcast Remote, I understand this doesn't work w/ the tivo. Any plans on adding this? This is a very widely used feature I would think and the loss of it is disappointing.

3. HD Tivo Menus
I also read that the comcast (and normal tivo) have SD tivo menus, I have a 60" Sony LCD and it would be nice if the menus were higher-res as to not look so blocky (I'm assuming since I don't have the upgrade yet, but I remember what it looked like on my DirecTivo.

4. More Tivo centric features.
Since comcast now has embraced tivo, will we see more existing tivo features on the comcast implementation? Otherwise, what was the point?

5. Upgrades
I'm assuming tivo software upgrades once you are converted can be rolled out remotely and not require a comcast visit?

Thanks again! Please post the responses if allowed.
- Steve

[bicker]

Comcast plans their own MRV-like service, which will apply to both services (iGuide and TiVo). No timetable has been announced.

[JohnnyO]

Originally Posted by markp99

If you have any topics you'd like me to raise, post them here. I'll be sure to bring them up.

Try to determine what percentage of the other participants had used other DVR previous to the Comcast/TiVo. I'm curious how folks who may have never used TiVo before respond to the unit.

If they say, "I don't know what all the fuss is about, I liked the regular Comcast DVR just as well," then I worry about the future of Comcast/TiVo.

Also -- could you ask about roll out timelines to the rest of the country? Will it be region by region, or, after a successful New England launch, might it go nationwide all at once?

John

[cypherstream]

How about bringing up the speed of the system? It seems pretty slow.

If you change the channel and then quickly press info, you still see the channel information for the previous channel.

No Dolby Digital on DCH boxes. Only PCM comes out.

Some users see a green screen when changing channels.

When some users exit the guide, the screen in the upper right hand corner remains the small scaled version. You have to go back into the guide and exit again to fix this.

When filtering HD channels the system takes approx 53 seconds to show up. But then filtering just movies is much faster. Why the performance difference?

There's extra room at the channel info banner. Why not display a channel logo like D*, E*, SA Passport, SARA, Moxi, and other high end interfaces? A quick glance at a logo is a great way to enforce brand recognition, plus it adds a bit of professionalism to the interface.
(Photoshopped example here)

Will third party applications be available, like Caller ID on screen, mini-games, widgets (interactive weather, traffic, sports, etc...)?

How about using the eSATA port on available boxes to expand the storage capacity? Scientific Atlanta DVR users have been doing this for quite some time. Why charge a premium for a new guide interface without premium features such as this? As always, this would be the users responsibility to maintain their hard drive. Just activate the port and get the feature working for the few that want it.

I also agree about the 16:9 full screen guide. Why pillarbox the guide screens? Why not draw it in 1280x720? At least the background if it's too much for the limited Motorola hardware.

Can you do a custom resolution pass through? For example, my TV supports 480P, 720P, and 1080i over the HDMI port. I would like to "check off" those resolutions. That way 720P HD channels such as ESPN, ABC, FOX show up unaltered in 720P. 1080i HD channels such as CBS, Discovery, NBC, etc.. will show up unaltered in 1080i. SD channels would upconvert to 480P since I didn't "Check" 480i (my TV's HDMI limitation). But each user could "Check" what they want. This feature is available on Pace DVR's, SA DVR's, D*, and E* HD boxes. Why is Motorola the only box left out?

Why not add a little flair and animate the guide coming on and off screen? To see an example of what I mean try out a DirecTV HD box, or any SA box running the Passport OS. Animations, fades, or effects add a nice layer of polish to the user interface, and help direct the users attention to whats happening on screen.

Don't forget this AVS Forums thread on Comcast/Tivo bugs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=964428

And the official AVS Forums thread on Comcast/Tivo. Note quite a few people are disappointed in the lack of 30 second skip.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...82350&page=103

[Mchero]

I have been beta testing the Comcast Tivo DVR and this evening I turned on the TV to find that the box reverted back to the Comcast DVR software.
I go to the Comcast trail site & call the number listed for the Tivo Beta support. I'm routed to standard Comcast suport folk who know ZERO about the Comcast Tivo software!
While on hold I find via the comcast.com web site that Comcast Tivo service IS available in my area. When the tech gets back on the phone I ask him to pull up my account and tell me what's listed...
Digital STB in the bedroom and Standard DVR in the living room. I ask the tech to look up any recent changed and he finds that at 9:00AM today my time the Tivo beta program was removed from my account! I then ask him to see if Tivo service is an option and to both of our surprise it is! He ads the service back to my account and 15 minutes later my DVR reboots and I get the Almost Their sunrise screen!

WOW strange how Comcast ended the beta! No email nothing! just pull the plug & reroute the phone number to standard support!

I'm running the DCH3416 DVR with what looks like an EXACT Tivo remote but this one has the ON DEMAND button just below the select.

RM
New Hampshire

[sberube]

Continuing on my other response by NailStorm:

Now that I have had a chance to use the software, my biggest complaint is the speed of the menuing, so I would like to know if they are aware of this and plan to address it.

[jdg0928]

The ability to turn off TiVo Suggestions with a DCH box. (I have read that it, like DD 5.1, works correctly with a DCT box.)

And chalk me up as another person who wants the 30-second skip.

I get my Comcast TiVo software this afternoon, but hopefully I don't see anything else that hasn't been mentioned.

[kbmb]

Originally Posted by cypherstream

How about bringing up the speed of the system? It seems pretty slow.

If you change the channel and then quickly press info, you still see the channel information for the previous channel.

No Dolby Digital on DCH boxes. Only PCM comes out.

Some users see a green screen when changing channels.

When some users exit the guide, the screen in the upper right hand corner remains the small scaled version. You have to go back into the guide and exit again to fix this.

I'm seeing these exact same things. Any idea on if they are working on fixing these.

I notice that a lot of times, when I press Guide...instead of starting me out on the channel I'm on....it puts me on the last channel I was on.

-Kevin

[markp99]

Well, we had the focus group last night. The were ~8 of us, mostly TiVo users, there were a couple non-TiVo people. It was nice to meet a few other TCF'ers . The session was video taped, with Comcast folks off in another room observing.

The session was non-technical and mostly focussed on what we like and dislike about the Comcast TiVo unit. We accumulated a laundry list of goods and bads on a flipchart with only very short discussion on each. It was interesting to see the different priorities among the group.

As expected, the number one issue raised was the lag while navigating the interface. The moderator (non-Comcast employee) had each of us accomplish various common tasks on the Comcast TiVo using the TiVo remote. It was interesting to see the lag we each encountered while performing the tasks - very noticeable. Actual functionality of the unit did not appear to an issue with any of us (minus missing 30 sec skip & MRV-type functionality). The TiVo users, me included, did not have any issues learning to use the new unit, it is very similar to the original TiVo.

At the conclusion of the session, a couple Comcast employees came into the room and took a few of our questions. One was a product manager-type from Philly, the other a local Comcast guy from NH.

Here's a summary of the questions asked (as far as I can remember):

1. The observed LAG is a known issue. Comcast is focusing their efforts to understand and correct the combination of hardware/software/communications issues.

2. The hardware in-use for the trial is reported by Comcast to be the same and the latest for all of us (mine is a DCT3416 I).

3. MRV, TiVo2Go and similar "network" functionality was stated to be on Comcast's roadmap. The reps made it clear that they need to address the basic performance issues before adding new type of functionality. Seems a wise decision!

4. Comcast will require a "truck roll" for each new install (at least initially), even for "flips", were the existing Comcast DVR service is replaced with the TiVo service. Cable signal quality is a key to successful function of these units (i.e., internal cable modem). A Comcast tech visit is required to confirm (and improve if necessary) signal quality, more fully understand and quantify the install and support variables. The long term plan appears to move to a remote install approach.

5. The TiVo peanut will be provided with the TiVo service. Initially they will be provided by the tech during the install, but will be mailed for subsequent remote installs.

6. Trial users will be contacted in the near future about the status of the program. It sounded like the trial will conclude in the Feb timeframe.

7. Comcast has initiated a wider roll out in the Boston area only on Monday this week. We did not discuss the status of the current roll out or future roll out plans.

8. Comcast does monitor this forum (/waves ). We encouraged them to interject and and help clarify issues/questions, much like TiVo does.

The following is a list of the issues raised during the session (I've probably left off a few, sorry). There was no real discussion from Comcast on any of these; we really just compiled a list. Hopefully Comcast & TiVo will prioritize and address the issues promptly:

Lag in the user interface
Lag in program guide filtering - though looked to be pretty good last night!
Lack of 30-sec skip functionality
Lack of MRV-like functionality
SD menus
No Dolby output
Network logos
External storage options

[kbmb]

markp99,

Did you get the sense that TiVo is something that Comcast is taking seriously? Or is this something where you think they could just drop it and continue with the iGuide instead?

-Kevin

[markp99]

The product manger seemed excited about the product. Their concern over the performance issues seemed genuine. We'll see what they are able to accomplish.

I think the challenge for Comcast will be convincing their installed customer base to make the move to the TiVo service (not a huge cost adder). Leveraging the TiVo name recognition and tried-and-true user interface will be a benefit. There may be some opportunity to grab existing TiVo users who want dual tuner HD support without the Series3 or HDTivo hardware expense. I do worry that TiVo users have a bit of a reference point relative to the interface and performance, and may find the current Comcast TiVo performance a step back.

I see opportunity for Comcast to grab some of the DirecTV customer base, by enticing those previous D*TiVo users back to the friendly interface, without a large upfront hardware expense.

[BlackBetty]

Originally Posted by kbmb

markp99,

Did you get the sense that TiVo is something that Comcast is taking seriously? Or is this something where you think they could just drop it and continue with the iGuide instead?

-Kevin

$10's of millions of dollars in R&D to get the software ported to Moto boxes, and another investment to get it ported soon to Sci-Atlanta boxes. A larger push in the boston area this week. Focus groups to gather information with a goal to make service better before national rollout.......Yeah I think this is something that they plan to just drop at some point.

[BlackBetty]

Originally Posted by markp99

The product manger seemed excited about the product. Their concern over the performance issues seemed genuine. We'll see what they are able to accomplish.

I think the challenge for Comcast will be convincing their installed customer base to make the move to the TiVo service (not a huge cost adder). Leveraging the TiVo name recognition and tried-and-true user interface will be a benefit. There may be some opportunity to grab existing TiVo users who want dual tuner HD support without the Series3 or HDTivo hardware expense. I do worry that TiVo users have a bit of a reference point relative to the interface and performance, and may find the current Comcast TiVo performance a step back.

I see opportunity for Comcast to grab some of the DirecTV customer base, by enticing those previous D*TiVo users back to the friendly interface, without a large upfront hardware expense.

Any talk about marketing? Curious to see when and how this will take place. Logical move would be a TiVo insert of sorts with your monthly bill.

[markp99]

Originally Posted by BlackBetty

Any talk about marketing? Curious to see when and how this will take place. Logical move would be a TiVo insert of sorts with your monthly bill.

We saw a couple samples of print ads. We made some comments on the first to increase the prominence of the "TiVo" brand/logo. The second looked better, a bit more fun with the "My TiVo Gets Me" flavor.

We did not discuss timing or how these might be sent out.

[cypherstream]

Thanks mark for addressing some of the concerns in the user group meeting.

I would love to try the tivo service, but I am in East Central PA division.

I also can't wait to try the new I-Guide interface, which looks really slick! You can see it from CES 2008 here:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/10...e-comcast-dvr/

[JohnnyO]

Originally Posted by markp99

Well, we had the focus group last night. The were ~8 of us, mostly TiVo users, there were a couple non-TiVo people. It was nice to meet a few other TCF'ers . The session was video taped, with Comcast folks off in another room observing.

Thanks for participating, and taking the time to write up the summary. I was wondering if the folks who did not have previous TiVo experience felt that the TiVo software offered much benefit over the Comcast software.

[markp99]

The non-TiVo user did note she thought the TiVo interface did more than she needs a DVR to do, thus making it somewhat more difficult to use that the Comcast DVR. This was not a huge topic of discussion.

[emoney14]

Bottom line for me is that the guide is too slow. As a former Tivo owner, I wasn't too disapointed w/ the comcast DVR, but thought Tivo would be so much better. The lagging guide, etc. may be a deal breaker for me. Is there any reason that I shouldn't call Comcast tomorrow and revert back to their DVR? Will they impove this problem?

[sberube]

I can tell you I've hit quite a few bugs w/ the Comcast Tivo software, I considered switching back however I'll wait it out a bit. Some bugs I've seen are

1. Can't access ondemand, just sits on Please Wait. I had to unplug the box and reboot it.

2. Recording a show, unplug the device, it will continue to record when it comes back up and 'append' to the previous recorded show. Nice feature, however when you watch the show and get to the point it appended, the time counter and ffwd/rewind kind of go haywire.

[kmcheng]

I reported this issue to a Comcast rep via their chat function. The rep was not aware of this issue, and also does not know if anyone else at Comcast is aware of this issue. Actually, I don't think the rep has the faintest idea of what I am talking about. I asked if I can "downgrade" my interface to the old Comcast DVR interface to see if I can receive 5.1 sound again. The rep says she cannot help me anymore and told me to speak with a local office (in the Boston area) for my problems.

[markp99]

kmcheng,

We were given a new toll free number to use for call-in support. I'll post it when I get home tonite (/crossing my fingers I still have it ).

Mark

[Bruce24]

Originally Posted by kmcheng

I reported this issue to a Comcast rep via their chat function. The rep was not aware of this issue, and also does not know if anyone else at Comcast is aware of this issue. Actually, I don't think the rep has the faintest idea of what I am talking about. I asked if I can "downgrade" my interface to the old Comcast DVR interface to see if I can receive 5.1 sound again. The rep says she cannot help me anymore and told me to speak with a local office (in the Boston area) for my problems.

Many people on the AVS forum have reported this problem, I am many of the others have called Comcast about it. It seems to only be a problem on the combination of the Tivo software on a Motorola DCH-3416 box. While I never got a reply, a couple of people reported that it would be fixed with a firmware upgrade due by the end of this quarter. If you really want DD, you can ask them to swap your box for a DCT-3416, if they still have any.

-Bruce

[kmcheng]

Mark,

It will be great to be able to speak with some Comcast personnel who actually might know something about their Tivo software. During my chat with the Comcast rep, I specifically asked for the email/name of the project manager for Comcast Tivo. The rep said she has no idea who that is. She said she would report the issue to (generic) Comcast management. I asked who specifically she will report it to. Then she told me to report the problem to the local office in Boston. Not very helpful.

Bruce24,
Actually, the Comcast technician who installed my Tivo gave me a Motorola DCH 3416, which looks like this: http://broadband.motorola.com/busine...416_settop.asp

Before the Tivo upgrade, my Comcast box was Motorola DCT 3416, which looks like the unit in the following PDF: http://broadband.motorola.com/consum...ds/DCT3400.pdf

The technician told me that the DCH is a better box than the DCT. So, if I can get my old DVR interface back on the DCH, that would hopefully solve my problems with 5.1 sound. As you say, this only seems to be a problem with the combination of Motorola DCH 3416 and Tivo.

Anyway, I wrote an email to Comcast's customer service and also to the senior vice president listed on their website. (Rick Germano - SVP Customer Operations, Comcast) I will give them one more day to see what they have to say before I go to the local Boston office to swap my DCT box back.

The old DCT box is not perfect either. I remember having to go through two defective units before I could finally find one that would not freeze every 1 or 2 days.

[kmcheng]

I got a call from the Executive Customer Relationship department. The rep was trying to be helpful, and I commend her for that, but still was not knowledgeable enough to understand the Dolby Digital issue. (It is not that technical; or am I too geeky?) She said she would check with the field office and get back to me. I'll see.

At least the issue is being escalated. I know other people have already reported to Comcast, but this particular rep was not aware of it, and it never hurts to apply more pressure.

[Bruce24]

Originally Posted by kmcheng

I got a call from the Executive Customer Relationship department. The rep was trying to be helpful, and I commend her for that, but still was not knowledgeable enough to understand the Dolby Digital issue. (It is not that technical; or am I too geeky?) She said she would check with the field office and get back to me. I'll see.

At least the issue is being escalated. I know other people have already reported to Comcast, but this particular rep was not aware of it, and it never hurts to apply more pressure.

FWIW: A couple of hours ago I got a follow up call from someone at Comcast, they wanted to know my opinion on the Tivo software. I told other than being slow and the Dolby Digital not working I liked. The guy told me that Motorola was going to be delivering a firmware upgrade that would fix the problem but he wasn't sure when it would be ready. He said that if I wanted he could have a tech come out and swap my DCH box for a DCT box. I told him I would live with it for now.

[Bill Ball]

It's good to see the report of the Comcast focus group. I've been involved in product usability studies, and it appears this was done as it should have been, and you got the bonus of meeting and talking to the Comcast staff. Although usability studies like this would seem to be essential, they are done rather rarely. This is encouraging.

[kmcheng]

The executive customer relations representative arranged to have a technician visit my place and swap my DCH box with the old DCT box. The technician knew about the Dobly 5.1 problem with Tivo, and he said Comcast is working on it. He is not sure when the fix will be available.

Now that I have the old interface back, I have to say it is actually not that bad compared to Comcast Tivo. The old interface is much more responsive. I do not have the Tivo suggestions anymore, but I do get back 5.1 sound. Besides, the tivo suggestions often interrupt my live TV watching, which is very annoying. I will definitily choose 5.1 surround sound over Comcast Tivo.

Another disappointing result of my Tivo ordeal is that now I have the DCT 3412 box, which has a hard disk of 120 gig. Before my Tivo "upgrade", I had the DCT 3416, which has 160 gig.

In summary, in trying to "upgrade" my Comcast service, I got instead a downgrade of 40 gig hard disk space. I will also be charged for the ten days with Comcast Tivo and without Dolby Digital. In addition, I have to take time off from work twice for the two service calls. Very nicely done, Comcast!