Series3 vs HD Tivo

[slimjim867]

I'm making hardware decisicions and would like to know...why the Series 3 would be worth the difference in price from a HD Tivo to some?

Thank you

[bkdtv]

The Series3 is currently about twice as fast as the TivoHD with MRV (Tivo -> Tivo transfers) and 1.5-2.0x as fast with TivoToGo (Tivo -> PC transfers).

If you intend to regularly download recordings to your computer, or intend to make heavy use of multi-room viewing with multiple TiVos, then you probably want at least one Series3.

[brettatk]

Originally Posted by slimjim867

I'm making hardware decisicions and would like to know...why the Series 3 would be worth the difference in price from a HD Tivo to some?

Thank you

The only differences I could really see was that the S3 is "nicer" looking and that it is THX certified. Neither of those were really worth the extra money the S3 would have cost in my opinion. The S3 does come with more room (bigger hard drive), but I had planned to upgrade the drive in my THD so that didnt matter to me anyway.

Forgot about speed. It is faster but I dont do much MRV so that wasnt a factor either. It's plenty fast for me to start the transfer then go watch something else and by time that is done I can watch what I transferred.

[Resist]

I chose the S3 because I got it for $339 on Amazon.com, with the rebate. So I couldn't pass up the price. It has more storage space and looks much better. The front display is really sweet.

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

The Series3 is currently about twice as fast as the TivoHD with MRV (Tivo -> Tivo transfers) and 1.5-2.0x as fast with TivoToGo (Tivo -> PC transfers).

If you intend to regularly download recordings to your computer, or intend to make heavy use of multi-room viewing with multiple TiVos, then you probably want at least one Series3.

Please excuse the newbie question but, what do you do with content that you have moved to your PC?

[Brad Bishop]

One thing that tipped the scales for me:
TiVo HD will handle a single M-Card so you don't have to deal with 2 S-Cards from the cable company and the billing fun that is sure to follow.

The S3 is nicer looking. The TiVo HD looks like it should have Emerson written on it in script and be found on a back-shelf at K-mart. It's really not a pretty design.

I think there's a deal, too, with the TiVo HD being able to handle larger hard drives in the future than the S3 (greater than 1TB) if you want to replace it. Perhaps someone can confirm that.

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by Brad Bishop

One thing that tipped the scales for me:
TiVo HD will handle a single M-Card so you don't have to deal with 2 S-Cards from the cable company and the billing fun that is sure to follow.

The S3 is nicer looking. The TiVo HD looks like it should have Emerson written on it in script and be found on a back-shelf at K-mart. It's really not a pretty design.

I think there's a deal, too, with the TiVo HD being able to handle larger hard drives in the future than the S3 (greater than 1TB) if you want to replace it. Perhaps someone can confirm that.

The Series 3 cannot handle an M-Card but the Tivo HD can?

[DaveDFW]

Originally Posted by slimjim867

The Series 3 cannot handle an M-Card but the Tivo HD can?

Sort of. The Series 3 can use M-cards, but they are treated as S-cards, so you'll need two M-cards to have two tuners.

The Tivo HD only needs one M-card to have two tuners.

TTYL
David

[Brad Bishop]

Originally Posted by DaveDFW

Sort of. The Series 3 can use M-cards, but they are treated as S-cards, so you'll need two M-cards to have two tuners.

The Tivo HD only needs one M-card to have two tuners.

Yeah, I should have clarified.

The other thing I'd offer about the S3: It really is better looking. What is the real benefit of seeing what is recording on the OLED screen on the front. It's technically cool / nice looking, but what real benefit does it have?

I could see you occassionally looking at it at first for 'ain't that neat' but after that initial novelty has worn off it seems like it'd be a lot like a picture on the wall. You know it's there but you never really look at it.

[susani8]

Originally Posted by slimjim867

Please excuse the newbie question but, what do you do with content that you have moved to your PC?

I do a couple of things. I will sometimes archive them if space is getting low on the TiVo itself and then transfer them back when I'm ready to watch them. I also like to move them to my Toshiba Gigabeat and watch the show/movie whenever and wherever I wish to. I found it wonderful during my recent trip to Germany, it made the flight much less tedious.

[dmbfan36_23]

- Series 3 comes with the $50 GloRemote.
- TiVo HD is the only unit that you can do lifetime subscription transfers to (for $199) or get with a new lifetime subscription (for $400). S3 requires you to have a monthly service plan.
- TiVo HD has cable card slots in the front which are much easier to deal with than the ones in the back on the S3.

Engadget did a detailed comparison back in October, this was before the external storage and MRV/TTG functions were fully working on both the S3 and the HD though:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/23...hd-vs-series3/

[cleverusername]

I heard that HD is missing an input that is included on S3; this would make it difficult to use Tivo with satellite if you have to move and that is your only option. Is this true?

[sieglinde]

My Tivo HD croaked within a week after being turned on. I suspect this is not uncommon.

[phox_mulder]

Originally Posted by cleverusername

I heard that HD is missing an input that is included on S3; this would make it difficult to use Tivo with satellite if you have to move and that is your only option. Is this true?

Neither the S3 nor the HD can record from satellite.
Both have only antenna and cable inputs.

They both have the same inputs, one coaxial antenna and one coaxial cable.
Neither have external inputs for a satellite receiver or cable box.


phox

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by susani8

I do a couple of things. I will sometimes archive them if space is getting low on the TiVo itself and then transfer them back when I'm ready to watch them. I also like to move them to my Toshiba Gigabeat and watch the show/movie whenever and wherever I wish to. I found it wonderful during my recent trip to Germany, it made the flight much less tedious.

That is great. I recently rented a DVD to watch on my ipod (plugged into Sonics ipod 7" viewer) on a trip. I had to rip it to my HDD then encode it for playback on the ipod. It was a pain and took hours. I would have loved being able to pull stuff off my DirecDVR but could not. I'm happy that the standalone which will be used for FIOS will be able to do this.
What format does the Tivo place on the PC?

[JYoung]

Originally Posted by dmbfan36_23

- TiVo HD is the only unit that you can do lifetime subscription transfers to (for $199) or get with a new lifetime subscription (for $400). S3 requires you to have a monthly service plan.

Not quite.
While you can transfer (certain) lifetimes only to the TiVo HD you can currently buy lifetime for both the Series 3 and the TiVo HD if you are a current TiVo Subscriber.

[mattack]

Originally Posted by slimjim867

That is great. I recently rented a DVD to watch on my ipod (plugged into Sonics ipod 7" viewer) on a trip. I had to rip it to my HDD then encode it for playback on the ipod. It was a pain and took hours. I would have loved being able to pull stuff off my DirecDVR but could not. I'm happy that the standalone which will be used for FIOS will be able to do this.
What format does the Tivo place on the PC?

I haven't done it yet, but you still have to do conversion for your iPod.. I don't know if it takes as long...

[mattack]

Originally Posted by Brad Bishop

The other thing I'd offer about the S3: It really is better looking. What is the real benefit of seeing what is recording on the OLED screen on the front. It's technically cool / nice looking, but what real benefit does it have?

I know, I should just 'trust it', but I like being able to look at the front of the unit to see what's recording.

I too thought it was fluff, but now that I have a Tivo HD + S3 (plus two s1s, one unplugged), having the screen on the S3 really is helpful.

Plus, the TivoHD doesn't even show the red recording light *when it's in standby*. The S3 does for user-initiated recordings but not suggestions.. which is helpful.

[mnmsmith]

I know this may seem trivial, but does the S3 show the current channel on the front display? The HD doesn't and the women of the house are complaining.

[AlphaDelta]

The display shows the time, and the name (about 15 characters) of the show(s) currently recording. And the show names are too small for me to read anyway. Just like any tivo you'd have to press "Info" on the remote to find out what channel you're on.

[aaronwt]

The display is what I like about the S3. I can easily see what is being recorded. I can read the display up to 10 feet away. So I have no problem in my main viewing area which is 9 feet away and in my PC room which is 5 feet away.

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by mnmsmith

I know this may seem trivial, but does the S3 show the current channel on the front display? The HD doesn't and the women of the house are complaining.

LMK if you decide to replace the HD. I might be interested.

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

The Series3 is currently about twice as fast as the TivoHD with MRV (Tivo -> Tivo transfers) and 1.5-2.0x as fast with TivoToGo (Tivo -> PC transfers).

If you intend to regularly download recordings to your computer, or intend to make heavy use of multi-room viewing with multiple TiVos, then you probably want at least one Series3.

I'm back!!
So, last year (when I originally posted this question) I opted for the HD and love it.
I now am re-visiting this post because of the "speed" question.
(sorry for the cross post.......I just found this thread again)


My LAN is Cat5, no wireless.
When my TV was SD transfer speed was no problem. Now that I record everything that i can in HD speed is an issue.
I'm planning to get another Tivo and am concerned with Tivo>Tivo and PC>Tivo.
I have no experience yet with Tivo>Tivo but PC>Tivo takes a long time. I've tried buffering PC>Tivo for 15 minutes and I still catch up.
I'm wondering if I get a S3 instead of an HD for my second unit.....will it transfer enough info after a few minutes to start watching?

[JoeTaxpayer]

Slim -
The TiVo sends out HD faster than real time. I posted speed tests on another thread here, but the bottom line is I can start watching almost instantly. I prefer to get a beverage fist, but by the time the first commercial hits, I can FF thru it.

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by slimjim867

I have no experience yet with Tivo>Tivo but PC>Tivo takes a long time. I've tried buffering PC>Tivo for 15 minutes and I still catch up.
I'm wondering if I get a S3 instead of an HD for my second unit.....will it transfer enough info after a few minutes to start watching?

TiVo has significantly improved MRV performance on the TivoHD, first with 9.4 and more recently with the 11.0 software.

From the MRV/TTG/TTCB on TivoHD & Series3: FAQ.

Series3->Series3

MRV throughput (i.e. transfer speed) between two TiVo Series3 DVRs is up to ~45Mbps (20Gb/hour) under ideal conditions. Under more typical viewing conditions, throughput is 25-35Mbps.

At 25-35Mbps on a 100Mbps network, there are no viewing delays and all high-definition recordings transfer fast enough to skip commercials.


TiVoHD->TiVoHD

The TiVoHD can currently transfer recordings about 2/3 as fast as the Series3. MRV throughput (i.e. transfer speed) between two TivoHDs is ~31Mbps under ideal conditions. Under more typical viewing conditions, throughput is 22-24Mbps.

At 22-24Mbps on a 100Mbps network, there are no viewing delays and most high-definition recordings transfer fast enough to skip commercials.

To put this in context, recordings from ABC-HD and FOX-HD typically have a bitrate of 10-14Mbps, while recordings from NBC-HD and CBS-HD typically have a bitrate of 14-17Mbps. Sports channels like ESPN may be as high as 18.6 Mbps, while premium movie channels like HBO-HD and SHO-HD are typically 11Mbps or less. Your MRV throughput (i.e. transfer speed) must match or exceed the recording's bitrate in order to eliminate viewing delays. Throughput should be ~1.3x the recording's bitrate in order to skip all commercials on the fly.

[slimjim867]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

TiVo has significantly improved MRV performance on the TivoHD, first with 9.4 and more recently with the 11.0 software.

From the MRV/TTG/TTCB on TivoHD & Series3: FAQ.

To put this in context, recordings from ABC-HD and FOX-HD typically have a bitrate of 10-14Mbps, while recordings from NBC-HD and CBS-HD typically have a bitrate of 14-17Mbps. Sports channels like ESPN may be as high as 18.6 Mbps, while premium movie channels like HBO-HD and SHO-HD are typically 11Mbps or less. Your MRV throughput (i.e. transfer speed) must match or exceed the recording's bitrate in order to eliminate viewing delays. Throughput should be ~1.3x the recording's bitrate in order to skip all commercials on the fly.

Thank you so much.
This is just the info I needed, layed out in context so that i was able to digest it. Now I know that another TivoHD will suffice for Tivo>Tivo transfers.
What about PC>Tivo. I read somewhere that due to re-encoding by TivoDesktop, PC transfers are slower than T>T. How much of a difference would the SR make over the HD for PC>Tivo transfers?
Thanks again.