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Old 12-08-2007, 11:05 PM   #61
ZeoTiVo
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Originally Posted by TonyD79 View Post
A business model that ties themselves to hardware when their main competence is software.
yes, and the monthly sub price is not a big help either, but we are talking ads specifically at the moment...

So are you saying that if TiVo dropped the ads we would see a significant rise in the number of subscriptions?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:28 PM   #62
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When that happens, let us know. Until then, do exactly what you've done before, and you won't have to see any ads, OK?

Oh my god! If Tivo is going to survive, it's going to be the research (Neilsen is calm ...for now even though they started rolling out "people meters" shortly after the advent of Tivo) and the alternative advertising models that are being created because of the widespread use of... what? (all together now) D V R ssss!

I look forward to the day when we either have totally free entertainment or that it can get sponsored and paid for by unobtrusive "stealth advertising"
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:23 AM   #63
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It does seem strange that you are seeing ads even though you are paying for the service. However, newspapers and magazines also get money both from subscribers and advertisers. It looks like it's the only way to be profitable and stay in business.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:43 AM   #64
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Obviously, out of principle, you'll have to cancel your subscription.

Go ahead and do it. I dare you.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:03 PM   #65
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What do people think about *more* options at the end of shows? I find myself slightly annoyed that if I'm watching a show for the first time - say as a Suggestion, I can't both delete it and go to get a season pass or swivel search or something from the end. This would be solved by having those options from the "delete at end" menu.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:39 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Lensman View Post
What do people think about *more* options at the end of shows? I find myself slightly annoyed that if I'm watching a show for the first time - say as a Suggestion, I can't both delete it and go to get a season pass or swivel search or something from the end. This would be solved by having those options from the "delete at end" menu.
uummm - at the end of the show hit left arrow, select more options, do your thing - left arrow out of where ever you went and then delete the show.
Already there and easy to use.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
uummm - at the end of the show hit left arrow, select more options, do your thing - left arrow out of where ever you went and then delete the show.
Already there and easy to use.
This is what I do now, I think we just disagree about whether it's easy to use.

For swivel search, the sequence is:
left arrow to navigate back
down arrow four times to get to more options
right arrow to select more options
up arrow three times to get to swivel search
right arrow to select swivel search
<do my swivel search thing>
left arrow to navigate back to more options
left arrow to navigate back to the show
up arrow twice to get to delete
select to delete

But my main problem is that in I actually want to delete the show, I just want to do some things first before I delete it. I think it creates some kind of task tension that if I want to add a season pass before I delete a show that I've just watched, I have to say: "no, i don't want to delete the show", do my thing, and then later say "delete this show". I understand that some may consider this "nit-picking", but I consider it user-centered design. Now I may be the only one who would consider this somehow desirable, and if so then they shouldn't do this.

I agree with the poster earlier in the thread who said that the screen for delete/keep the show is a unique point in the tv watching user experience. I could even see additional options here if/when Tivo ever adds support for two people watching the a show and marking it for deletion. That would elevate Tivo to the level of Lexus with their adjustment of mirrors and seat based on which remote was used to unlock the car.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:02 AM   #68
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I think it creates some kind of task tension that if I want to add a season pass before I delete a show that I've just watched, I have to say: "no, i don't want to delete the show", do my thing, and then later say "delete this show". I understand that some may consider this "nit-picking", but I consider it user-centered design. Now I may be the only one who would consider this somehow desirable, and if so then they shouldn't do this.
having an option that does two things - delete this show AND bring up more options for this show - while a remote button timesaver - does not fit the simplistic menu design of TiVo. You, and I, could make good use of the option but it is just easier to follow to keep the show and do the more options, then delete it. There are many places I would love to tech/geek up the TiVo menus and have even talked about an advanced user option under setup to turn on these more advanced menus to get to the LEXUS level. So I am with you in principle but the simple interface approach really calls for a simple Keep or Delete at the end of the show
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:53 AM   #69
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What ads? I'm not forced to watch any ad at any time.

I've had a Tivo since 2000 and there were always some sort of line items on the main screens.

I even actively play the ads so Tivo gets revenue.

In the end, how many people would prefer not to have Tivo at all? I can't even remember TV without it.

I really don't get what all the huffing & puffing about this line items is about.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:19 PM   #70
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What ads? I'm not forced to watch any ad at any time.
You're confusing the terms "Television Ads" with "Ads". You are not forced to watch any video 30-frames-per-second ads - that's true. But there are text ads for cars and such. Look at the text next to the star on your Tivo. If a billboard had the same message about Lexus, etc. would you not call that an ad?

The only real difference is that people don't pay a monthly fee to the billboard company.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:35 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by SeattleBrad View Post
It does seem strange that you are seeing ads even though you are paying for the service. However, newspapers and magazines also get money both from subscribers and advertisers. It looks like it's the only way to be profitable and stay in business.
This is not specifically in response to SeattleBrad, but building on what he said.

You pay for cable TV channels, too and they have just as many ads as OTA stations. The question is, how much do you want to pay (directly) for what you view and what services you use. Would you rather pay more directly to the service provider for the convenience of not having ads, or pay less directly to the service provider and pay the rest in the cost of the items you buy (as advertising costs make up a part of product cost)? You pay either way. And where you may not buy the items specifically being advertised, everybody buys stuff, and almost everything we buy is advertised somehow, somewhere, so it all evens out in the wash.

It's no different than most ISP's. You pay a fortune for service from an ISP, and their home page is riddled with advertising that's way more obtrusive than the ads TiVo carries. Those ads flash and move constantly. I don't know if they make noise because I generally have the sound muted on my computer, but if they do, that's even worse. I'd rather have TiVo the way it is now than have to pay even more for it because they're not bringing in advertising revenue.
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:49 PM   #72
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You're confusing the terms "Television Ads" with "Ads".
No she was not. She said she was not forced to click on the Star line items and be forced to actually watch the ad and this is the lijne for many - some text on A menu and maybe a picture with the text is just not that big a deal to most people.

She did however choose to watch the ads to help TiVo genertae some ad revenue. TiVo staying in business and indeed perhaps even getting profitable so they have more resources to offer better products and better deals is a big deal to most people.
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:53 PM   #73
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I saw a line item for 1968 on History International and watched the promo for it, and subsequently watched the show. I wouldn't have known it was airing w/o the 'ad'.

I pick which ones I click on, they don't bug me at all.
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:57 PM   #74
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Oh brother.
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A menu and maybe a picture with the text is just not that big a deal to most people.
Maybe so, maybe not. That has little relevance to whether or not it's an ad. Anything designed to get you to do something is an ad. A billboard with "Coke" is an ad. So is a billboard with "www.coke.com". The second is a better example because that's an ad for an ad. Regardless, they're both ads, just like the text on my Tivo menu - it's designed to get me to do something.

Man, with you it's like watching a bird flying into a glass window - over, and over and over. A little humorous, but mostly sad.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:05 PM   #75
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What ads? I'm not forced to watch any ad at any time.

I've had a Tivo since 2000 and there were always some sort of line items on the main screens.

I even actively play the ads so Tivo gets revenue.

In the end, how many people would prefer not to have Tivo at all? I can't even remember TV without it.

I really don't get what all the huffing & puffing about this line items is about.
Well, I think maybe you do.

You see that it's much ado about nothing.

See, that's what it's about: NOTHING. And complaining about nothing. Which might be called complaining for complaining's sake.

ANd is entirely useless.

Though for sure, if it upsets you that much STOP POSTING here and CALL TIVO AND CANCEL.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:59 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
having an option that does two things - delete this show AND bring up more options for this show - while a remote button timesaver - does not fit the simplistic menu design of TiVo. You, and I, could make good use of the option but it is just easier to follow to keep the show and do the more options, then delete it.
Actually, all I want is for that end-of-show menu to have either three or four things on it:
1. delete
2. keep
3. more options

OR

1. delete
2. keep
3. (i liked this show) get season pass (if this show is a series and if I don't have a season pass for this show)
4. (i liked this show and want to find more like it) swivel search (probably only if I don't have a season pass as well, and maybe only if this *isn't* a series)
5. (i liked this show, show me what other people who liked this show recommend)
6. (I liked this show, show me what other shows advertisers are willing to pay money to have me consider at this time)

Again, though, I see this as possibly just being something that may only make sense to me and not to how other people's brains are wired.
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Old 12-10-2007, 08:19 PM   #77
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Oh brother.
Maybe so, maybe not. That has little relevance to whether or not it's an ad. Anything designed to get you to do something is an ad. A billboard with "Coke" is an ad. So is a billboard with "www.coke.com". The second is a better example because that's an ad for an ad. Regardless, they're both ads, just like the text on my Tivo menu - it's designed to get me to do something.

Man, with you it's like watching a bird flying into a glass window - over, and over and over. A little humorous, but mostly sad.
When you signed up for the service, what specifically did you read that made you think you wouldn't see ads like this?

-smak-
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:03 PM   #78
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Oh brother.
Maybe so, maybe not. That has little relevance to whether or not it's an ad.

Man, with you it's like watching a bird flying into a glass window - over, and over and over. A little humorous, but mostly sad.
actually I am just the guy cleaning the glass so things can be seen clearly and you are the guy that keeps smudging it up with things like somehow arguing they are called ads when no said they are not called ads
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:47 AM   #79
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I would prefer it if the ads weren't there. TiVo's promise was "no ads", and now they've got you where they want you, and advertise to you, anyway. I'm rather frustrated that our subscription fees are not enough to keep this business afloat. Where else are you concerned not only about the goods and services you are getting from a company, but rather that their business is successful? If it were a Charity, maybe, but a for profitable business, this just seems odd. I feel like I'm doing someone else's job, whereas I thought I was just paying to sit back and enjoy a service.

I do use the left arrow after a show now so I do not see the third ad option. I also use the TiVo button a whole lot less. I hate the way it starts out with four lines and then the three extra lines show up, including the ad. At first, I thought if I clicked it, it would go away, but new ones just kept coming up. Ugh.

Will I cancel my service? No. Do I feel like I'm getting less value than before these started showing up for the same cost? Absolutely.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:08 PM   #80
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TiVo's promise was "no ads"
When?
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:19 PM   #81
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You pay for cable TV channels, too and they have just as many ads as OTA stations.
I'm old enough to remember that the reason you PAID for cable was that you got all these 'commercial free' channels. (Much like satellite radio claims now). Those were the good old days...

My neighbors thought I was CRAZY to pay for television. "Why pay for TV when you get it free from an antenna?" they would say. "Cause I get all this specialized programming and no commercials!" I would joyfully explain. They didn't get it....and of course now there are only a handful of basic cable channels that don't have commercials.

But all my neighbors now have cable!
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:30 PM   #82
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TiVo's promise was never "no ads". Stressing commercial skip helped kill Replay. TiVo has always played nice with the studios and they're better off for it.

Their promise was TV your way. You choose to be pissed off by the ads you don't even click on to watch. That's "TV your way", apparently. Hope you're enjoying it.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:48 PM   #83
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That's so lame. When you call to sign up, the reps state over and over again how quickly you can skip over those nasty commercials, and it's not supposed to be a slap in the face when the same are featured right on the TiVo home site?! ...not to mention by the company that was supposed to protect you from seeing them? I guess it's just reality. Apparently, everyone eventually has to whore themselves out to make more money! Even XM radio that started out with commercial-free radio now advertises as the "Most commercial-free channels." Apparently, that's acceptable, too!
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:58 PM   #84
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That's so lame.
you can dislike it all you want but to try and make it like the ads on the TiVo interface are a surprise just makes you look silly. The star ads have been there for at least 4 years - the ads on the delete screen have been there for about a year now.

Plus the ads on TiVo do not change the way you interact with the DVR nor do they require one second of extra time. In fact you devoted 1000% more time in writing the few posts in this thread then you will spend actually dealing with the ads on the TiVo for the whole lifetime of the DVR
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:05 PM   #85
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TiVo frequently does software / service updates, do they not? I have not seen this for a full year. I have not even been a customer for a full year. Around early Nov, I paid for the three-year plan, and have only seen the extra ads for about three weeks now. So yes, I feel like I have paid $400 only to see more ads.

WTH does it matter how much time I'm tinkling away stating my distaste for what I perceive to be a modified product, after I purchased it (curiously enough, shortly after my 30 day trial period ended...hmmm)? Since getting the TiVo I'm watching waaaaaaaay more TV as I can now watch entire seasons of my favorite shows, and many more I haven't watched before. I have joined a site to post about watching TV. Now what part of that sounds like I haven't got a few minutes to bitch and moan about the ads? Sorry but I'm totally missing your point!!
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:09 PM   #86
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Plus the ads on TiVo do not change the way you interact with the DVR ...
Actually, that's not true. I used to use TiVo > Page Down > Select to get to Settings. Now TiVo > Page Down > Select usually serves an unwanted ad. The star ads change the way I interact with the TiVo.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:17 PM   #87
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Actually, that's not true. I used to use TiVo > Page Down > Select to get to Settings. Now TiVo > Page Down > Select usually serves an unwanted ad. The star ads change the way I interact with the TiVo.
Pretty lame complaint. How many times a day do you go to the settings page?
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:18 PM   #88
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Pretty lame complaint. How many times a day do you go to the settings page?
I was pointing out that the statement, "Plus the ads on TiVo do not change the way you interact with the DVR ..." is false. It is false. Is it not?

No where did I make a complaint. Your insult is unwarranted.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:46 PM   #89
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I would prefer it if the ads weren't there.
So, would I, but considering the alternatives (higher prices or no Tivo), I am willing to accept a minimal amount of advertising, especially ones that I can EASILY ignore if I want (or watch if I am interested.)

Quote:
TiVo's promise was "no ads", and now they've got you where they want you, and advertise to you, anyway.
Please show where Tivo promises no ads. As others have stated, Tivo does NOT advertise no Ads, they advertise "TV, your way".

Quote:
Just I'm rather frustrated that our subscription fees are not enough to keep this business afloat.
And I wish the our lovely government doesn't continue to find new taxes to take my money, but prices and cost rise year after year. A company has three choices: raise prices, eliminate services, or go out of business.
Quote:
Where else are you concerned not only about the goods and services you are getting from a company, but rather that their business is successful?
Any company that I maintain an ongoing service relationship with. If Sony goes out of business tomorrow, my TV will still work, but if Tivo goes out of business, well I can always use it as a doorstop.

Quote:
If it were a Charity, maybe, but a for profitable business, this just seems odd. I feel like I'm doing someone else's job, whereas I thought I was just paying to sit back and enjoy a service.
You should be able just sit back and enjoy your Tivo, I still do. Personally i don't find the ads intrusive and can easily ignore them. I would rather have optional advertisements on a Tivo versus the outrageous "pop-up" ads that networks are now overlaying their programming!

Quote:
I do use the left arrow after a show now so I do not see the third ad option. I also use the TiVo button a whole lot less. I hate the way it starts out with four lines and then the three extra lines show up, including the ad. At first, I thought if I clicked it, it would go away, but new ones just kept coming up. Ugh.

Will I cancel my service? No. Do I feel like I'm getting less value than before these started showing up for the same cost? Absolutely.
Tivo still does everything it did when I bought it and I am still paying the same price per month. In fact, since I bought the Tivo, many new features (MRV, TTG, Music & Pictures, etc.) have been added WITHOUT a hike in my service fees! I feel I am getting even more value from my Tivo.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:54 PM   #90
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Actually, that's not true. I used to use TiVo > Page Down > Select to get to Settings. Now TiVo > Page Down > Select usually serves an unwanted ad. The star ads change the way I interact with the TiVo.
I think since 9.1 I have been using the "slow" button right below the pause button on peanut to go to settings.

You are correct that page down does highlight the ad at the bottom
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