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Old 04-28-2009, 01:06 PM   #301
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I'm really surprised by the support for these ads. I'm against this on principle and in practice. Where does TiVo get the right to use my $800 S3 and my lifetime subscription as an advertising platform? When I bought it, I don't think that was part of the deal.
Sorry, TiVo has always said that advertising will be a major part of the revenue they expect from us users. If you look at the early annual reports (for example, the first annual report in year 2000, they spend almost as much time talking about benefits to advertisers as they do benefits to consumers. Didn't you find it a bit peculiar that in the hundreds of millions of dollars that TiVo has spent on their advertising campaigns, never once (AFAIK) did they say that skipping ads is a reason you should buy a TiVo? Ads have always been part of their plans, and they've been very public about it.

IMO, the only reason TiVo has survived and is innovating, is because of the potential huge advertising pot of money once they become big enough. TiVo has completely relied on the patience of investors for the money to survive (selling off new stock), and it's been obvious for many years that they can't make enough money off of subscriptions. (To get a reasonable return, they'd have to increase monthly revenue from customers by 60-70%, without losing any customers!!!). They would have had to sink to maintenance mode years ago without those investors gambling that TiVo can start making real money off of advertising.

Why do you think Comcast, Cox, and others are trying out TiVo? You surely don't think it is because they want to offer their customers a better experience! They all have their eye on a share of that pot of advertising revenue.

I don't like the ads, but TiVo has always been up front that they would be coming. I don't see an alternative for TiVo's survival. They never promised us no ads.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:13 PM   #302
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People -- Get -- Over -- It.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:27 PM   #303
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So far, I am ok with what is in place. That being said, does anyone know if there is a wa to default "the extras" when pausing to "hidden"?
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:39 PM   #304
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You both should read (or have read) the TiVo Terms of Service more carefully. You entered into a contract with TiVo that specifically spelled out their intentions to place advertising in the UI.
Nobody ever reads that crap....
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:47 PM   #305
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Since this is going to be a losing battle, lets think worst case...

What NEW ads do we think might be coming next? Hit "Info" button, and before it shows the actors and plot summary, might it say "brought to you by lap bandXXXX" ??
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:45 PM   #306
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Since this is going to be a losing battle, lets think worst case...

What NEW ads do we think might be coming next? Hit "Info" button, and before it shows the actors and plot summary, might it say "brought to you by lap bandXXXX" ??
Heh. It was reported somewhere before that they were testing a feature where the Tivo forced a channel change after a couple of "idle" hours. I think the test channel was TBS.

Can you imagine the shock and horror of finding your TV set to TBS every morning and evening after work?
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:59 PM   #307
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Sorry, TiVo has always said that advertising will be a major part of the revenue they expect from us users. If you look at the early annual reports (for example, the first annual report in year 2000, they spend almost as much time talking about benefits to advertisers as they do benefits to consumers.
Sorry, this doesn't fly. Whatever TiVo told investors makes no difference to the paying customer. TOS does not specifically mention that pop-up ads will be added to UI. People who purchased TiVo with lifetime relied on TOS to make the decision and should have the right to demand what they paid for.
Just like with early S1, the TOS did not specify that lifetime was attached to the unit and TiVo had to grandfather all the S1's sold before the change in TOS for one time free lifetime transfer.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:07 PM   #308
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Mmm, real mature.
I figure he/she/it must be a stockholder and as fits the model - greedy and accepting of anything.

Maybe it's the analogy to coffins that makes the poster so, well, supportive.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:11 PM   #309
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I think TiVo is pushing the envelope with the pop-up ad that happened with Celebrity Apprentice but the rest of the stuff is tolerable.
I'm hoping that TiVo is at least working to make these 'targeted' ads.
Getting the basics in now so they can tell advertisers "we can target your audience".
If the ad is something I might be interested in, I would be more willing to tolerate it.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:00 PM   #310
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Heh. It was reported somewhere before that they were testing a feature where the Tivo forced a channel change after a couple of "idle" hours. I think the test channel was TBS.

Can you imagine the shock and horror of finding your TV set to TBS every morning and evening after work?
I rarely know what channels my Tivos are tuned to. That's what they're for.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:06 PM   #311
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People who purchased TiVo with lifetime relied on TOS to make the decision and should have the right to demand what they paid for.
Huh? really? I bet that at least 80% of all subscribers are clueless about what TOS is much less have a specific knowledge of the Tivo TOS.



Quote:
Just like with early S1, the TOS did not clearly specify that lifetime was attached to the unit and TiVo had chose to grandfather all the lifetime subscriptions sold for S1's sold before the change in TOS for one time free lifetime transfer.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:36 PM   #312
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People -- Get -- Over -- It.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:55 PM   #313
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Huh? really? I bet that at least 80% of all subscribers are clueless about what TOS is much less have a specific knowledge of the Tivo TOS.
I think that number is closer to 95% or more. Most people do not read licensing agreements for the software, sales contracts and even some very important documents like Deed of Trust. That doesn't mean that terms of the agreement are not enforceable. And few who read it can and sometimes do go to court to exercise their rights. Indeed, TiVo was not forced to grandfather old S1's, but they had to do it because they didn't want go to court and settle like they did with defective modems. I'm sure that TiVo attorneys decided that it was much cheaper for Tivo to grandfather few thousand units and not to worry about potential problem in a future.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:41 PM   #314
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People -- Get -- Over -- It.
Get over what? Would you be more specific?
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #315
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Sorry, this doesn't fly. Whatever TiVo told investors makes no difference to the paying customer. TOS does not specifically mention that pop-up ads will be added to UI. People who purchased TiVo with lifetime relied on TOS to make the decision and should have the right to demand what they paid for.
read post 300 again and notice how the TOS does indeed specify advertsing and billboards and thumbs ups. Advertising IS a part of the TiVo model and to say otherwise is silly, to say you did not know is to say you did not research the purchase.

A lawyer might be able to parse out that a billboard on top of content is not in TOS, but then he needs way more damage than just the one show and also he would need CA to say that was content versus just a big product placement that CA wanted the ad on top of.

Now sure if this continued on into say Lost or American Idol then the lawyers might get their briefs ready - still not sure what case they have if the shows themselves call it commercial advertising. heck AI runs an entire Ford ad as show content each week.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:42 PM   #316
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Can you imagine the shock and horror of finding your TV set to TBS every morning and evening after work?
Easily. Because I have a season pass set up to record "Shawn the Sheep" from Disney HD I quite often find myself faced with other less desirable Disney programming whenever I turn on the TV. I've got into the habit of pushing the "TiVo" button at the same time as "Power On" to avoid this.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:28 PM   #317
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Get over what? Would you be more specific?
Ooops...sorry...since I've been labeled a greedy stockholder, I better not say.
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #318
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I'm really surprised by the support for these ads.
I'd say they are mostly stockholders who are ticked off they are in a poor performing stock and are using us Tivo users vicariously to vent their deep-seated frustration. And, of course, their inability to admit they were wrong in buying the stock, which their ego will not let them do. I pity them.
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Old 05-03-2009, 03:34 PM   #319
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I'm really surprised by the support for these ads
I think there's a disturbing trend growing in America - a trend to blame the victim. I don't understand the increase in so many people thinking, "If you're that easily fooled; you deserve to be scammed." It completely absolves the wrongdoer of any blame. It's like saying, "Of course your car was stolen - look where you parked it!"

The fact of the matter is this - 4 years ago I paid $199 for a TiVo, and I've been paying $12.95 every month since to use that TiVo. I don't like the idea of paying someone to force ads down my throat. Had I known back then that someday I would have to maneuver around Mercedes commercials every time I pause my TV or delete a show, I would have just rented a DVR from my cable provider and saved myself the cost of the hardware.

Of course, they're even bigger liars. Remember back when cable started, they promised us, "Since we'll be making our money from customers, there will be no more need for commercial advertisements during programs?"

Yeah, right.
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Old 05-03-2009, 05:30 PM   #320
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I'd say they are mostly stockholders who are ticked off they are in a poor performing stock and are using us Tivo users vicariously to vent their deep-seated frustration. And, of course, their inability to admit they were wrong in buying the stock, which their ego will not let them do. I pity them.
Tivo is one of few stocks that I own that is in the black. Compared to some/most of the market, I think Tivo fared quite well in the past few months! http://www.google.com/finance?q=tivo+cmcsa+dish+dtv. If you zoom to 1yr, you'll see it's been relatively stable, with DirectTV doing slightly better.

Your ignorance is showing.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:09 AM   #321
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:09 AM   #322
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This attempt by Tivo to actually MAKE MONEY has turned this molehill mountainous. Get over it people.
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Tivo is one of few stocks that I own that is in the black. Compared to some/most of the market, I think Tivo fared quite well in the past few months! http://www.google.com/finance?q=tivo+cmcsa+dish+dtv. If you zoom to 1yr, you'll see it's been relatively stable, with DirectTV doing slightly better.

Your ignorance is showing.
Cherry picking on the time frame? Nice, real nice. Well, at least we flushed you out as a stockholder and will now discount all of your opinions as being sadly biased. Have you heard the word "disclaimer"?
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:05 AM   #323
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Not a stockholder, they just don't bother me. They are pretty much invisible to me.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:52 AM   #324
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Not a stockholder, they just don't bother me. They are pretty much invisible to me.
Same for me. It's not like TiVo is adding ads to content. This is much-a-do about nothing IMO.
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:33 AM   #325
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Not a stockholder, they just don't bother me. They are pretty much invisible to me.
OK...time for me to confess....I, too, am NOT a stockholder. And, no, they don't bother me. Of the time I spend using my TiVo, approximately .001% of it is spent on "pause".
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:52 AM   #326
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I just think there needs to be a line drawn someplace... since it keeps moving forward.

When I bought my series 1, no ads, no talk of ads.

Pointers to showcase ads are ok... and sometimes interesting/informative.

The pause ads are annoying in what they represent, more progress down the slippery slope.

I don't want to see tivo innovating like TBS/TNT does where you are focused on a program, and a 1/4 screen chacter walks across a table with a promo for another show.

I'd rather see them revenue share with Hulu or something, since I have zero problem with their advertising model.

If we keep heading this way, I'll expect to start seeing banner pictures between pictures I share to my tivo.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:03 AM   #327
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I don't want to see tivo innovating like TBS/TNT does where you are focused on a program, and a 1/4 screen chacter walks across a table with a promo for another show.

I'd rather see them revenue share with Hulu or something, since I have zero problem with their advertising model.
so 30 sec ads you can not FF or skip are Ok but pause ads or shows doing product placement that includes overlaying the screen are not OK. Is this a correct statement?


PS - I am fine with Hulu as well - free streaming content for looking at a 30 sec ad is ok - but surely the same slippery slope exists there as anywhere else.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:55 PM   #328
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I for one am annoyed at the pause ads and frankly, I don't care what's in the terms about TiVo's right to use them. And no, I don't plan to get over it. I have 3 Series 3s with lifetimes, all bought back when it was about $1100 each to do that. Did I read the terms before I bought the units? No, I didn't, because I wanted a DVR and there wasn't another one available that didn't come from a network provider. What difference would reading the terms have made: TiVo reserves the right to change the terms whenever they want anyway. All of that legalese crap isn't the point at all. I think customers deserve to be treated as such, and if a large number of people object to these ads, they should be made optional or removed. If they could be turned off via a setting, would all of you who claim not to be bothered leave them on?
Most importantly, of all those who have posted here bemoaning the ads, how many of you have written TiVo and expressed your concern. That kind of communication might have an impact. Posting your thoughts here will not.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:38 PM   #329
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I for one am annoyed at the pause ads and frankly, I don't care what's in the terms about TiVo's right to use them. And no, I don't plan to get over it. I have 3 Series 3s with lifetimes, all bought back when it was about $1100 each to do that. Did I read the terms before I bought the units? No, I didn't, because I wanted a DVR and there wasn't another one available that didn't come from a network provider. What difference would reading the terms have made: TiVo reserves the right to change the terms whenever they want anyway. All of that legalese crap isn't the point at all. I think customers deserve to be treated as such, and if a large number of people object to these ads, they should be made optional or removed. If they could be turned off via a setting, would all of you who claim not to be bothered leave them on?
Most importantly, of all those who have posted here bemoaning the ads, how many of you have written TiVo and expressed your concern. That kind of communication might have an impact. Posting your thoughts here will not.
Then why did you? ...nice first post....
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:45 PM   #330
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If they could be turned off via a setting, would all of you who claim not to be bothered leave them on?
if they added even a dollar a month if you turned off adds I would leave them on.

if it made no difference in the bill I would probably leave them on one TiVo DVR for sure so I use them as desired - surprisingly to some - I would leave them on the DVR most used.
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