Journeyman 11/19/2007 (S01E09) "Emily"

dswallow · 11-19-2007, 11:16 PM

That was just so frustrating how Jack "forgot" everything he'd figured out and come to accept.

It looks like Dan's facing some consequences for what he's done... but I have to wonder why they think they weren't supposed to have done what they did to prevent the second kidnapping/murder. It just seems arbitrary how Livia suddenly was saying how they were now doing stuff they weren't supposed to do.

Rob Helmerichs · 11-19-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dswallow

... but I have to wonder why they think they weren't supposed to have done what they did to prevent the second kidnapping/murder. It just seems arbitrary how Livia suddenly was saying how they were now doing stuff they weren't supposed to do.

Yeah, the timing of his appearance would lead one more logically to the conclusion that he was supposed to stop the kidnapper. That was uncharacteristically weak writing for this show.

I do like, however, how three-dimensional all the characters are. Even if Jack doesn't remember how three-dimensional he really is.

Sadara · 11-19-2007, 11:44 PM

I don't think it was weak writing. I honestly think that they are trying to show their are unwritten rules to this and you have to be very careful what you do, no matter what your moral compass is trying to tell you.

And I agree it was utterly frustrating for his brother to have forgotten. Some how some way the brother has got to "get it".

Next weeks previews look very interesting!!!

bobjohnson · 11-20-2007, 02:17 AM

I clearly missed something. When did Dan tell his brother that he could time travel?

I guess I need to spend less time surfing the web and more time paying attention.

busyba · 11-20-2007, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobjohnson

I clearly missed something. When did Dan tell his brother that he could time travel?

If memory serves, it was in the first episode after his first jump, where he ran into the Olivia who hadn't met him yet.

spikedavis · 11-20-2007, 03:00 AM

That was great!!! And the preview for next week looks incredible. I'm not going to be able to deal if this show is cancelled.

atrac · 11-20-2007, 03:04 AM

Triple home run for NBC tonight! Another solid episode and yes, absolutely can't wait until next week.

They really had me fooled when it appeared Dan's son had also jumped!

I loved it when Livia took out the drug dealer. Good stuff!

JYoung · 11-20-2007, 03:32 AM

I'm not sure how Jack could file a 5150 on Dan without Katie knowing.

appleye1 · 11-20-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYoung

I'm not sure how Jack could file a 5150 on Dan without Katie knowing.

I think as a cop he gets special authority doesn't he? He might have to notify her, but I don't think she can prevent it. And if he's smart he will wait until after he commits Dan before he tells her!

danplaysbass · 11-20-2007, 07:26 AM

Wow, great episode! This show better not get canceled. I do, however, fear the inevitable...stupid strike.

betts4 · 11-20-2007, 08:04 AM

Is there some reason why Kate would still remember about the leaping, I mean time travelling, but Jack wouldn't?
I mean, I understand why Jack doesn't, but does the change mean that no one would remember?
I was also wondering why Livia made such a fuss. It would seem that Dan's trip was not just to save Emily but also the other girl and to stop the guy from doing it again. Logical.

I loved the windows screen on the computer and the chat room bit. I don't remember screens and text looking that bad on the internet, but I didn't use it till mid 90's.

Rob Helmerichs · 11-20-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betts4

Is there some reason why Kate would still remember about the leaping, I mean time traveling, but Jack wouldn't?
I mean, I understand why Jack doesn't, but does the change mean that no one would remember?

No, what changed was losing the interaction between Jack and Dan over the serial kidnapper, which is what started to convince Dan that Jack might not be insane. That had nothing to do with Kate, who has known almost since the beginning that Dan is not insane.

ElJay · 11-20-2007, 08:44 AM

I hope they resolve this Jack/Dan stuff soon. I thought it would (finally) happen this episode, but obviously they zapped that idea. I like the show, but the conflict for the sake of conflict between these characters is getting old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by betts4

I loved the windows screen on the computer and the chat room bit. I don't remember screens and text looking that bad on the internet, but I didn't use it till mid 90's.

There are a bunch of different IRC clients, but I've never seen one that looked that primitive in the mid 1990s. The "chat room" they showed looked like something displayed on a TRS-80, not a Windows 95 box. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see a screen shot that is much more typical of what the experience would look like on IRC a decade ago. I think it's rather annoying that they went through the effort to write Windows 95 into the story and even show the splash screen for it (plus perhaps a real shot of the user interface from a distance), but then they gave us a chat screen that looks nothing like an application running on Windows 95.

betts4 · 11-20-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

No, what changed was losing the interaction between Jack and Dan over the serial kidnapper, which is what started to convince Dan that Jack might not be insane. That had nothing to do with Kate, who has known almost since the beginning that Dan is not insane.

Thanks, that makes some sense, actually I like that Jack thinks Dan is a bit off, I just wish Jack wouldn't be so intense about it. It's too bad it couldn't be seen as a gradual thing and not so smack in the face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJay

There are a bunch of different IRC clients, but I've never seen one that looked that primitive in the mid 1990s. The "chat room" they showed looked like something displayed on a TRS-80, not a Windows 95 box. If you scroll to the bottom of this page

And thanks also. That's the style I remember. The other one looked like a pong game. Could it be a licensing thing or such?

Kamakzie · 11-20-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betts4

Is there some reason why Kate would still remember about the leaping, I mean time travelling, but Jack wouldn't?
I mean, I understand why Jack doesn't, but does the change mean that no one would remember?
I was also wondering why Livia made such a fuss. It would seem that Dan's trip was not just to save Emily but also the other girl and to stop the guy from doing it again. Logical.

I loved the windows screen on the computer and the chat room bit. I don't remember screens and text looking that bad on the internet, but I didn't use it till mid 90's.

Windows 95 screen put shivers down my spine! That was a buggy OS! I remember the conversion from 3.11.

Kamakzie · 11-20-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJay

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see a screen shot that is much more typical of what the experience would look like on IRC a decade ago.

That's what IRC still looks like today as well

jwjody · 11-20-2007, 10:59 AM

I thought this was a really good episode. Like most I feel this will get canceled and we'll lose a great show.

Something I didn't understand...a few episodes ago when Dan needed money for the card game in his past Livia jumped to his closet in the future and got the satchel of money. It seems someone has a hand in their jumping when it's needed. If that's the case then why not make Dan jump back to the present after they found Emily in the park. Technically his tracking was over because Emily had been saved.

J

Fool Me Twice · 11-20-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betts4

I was also wondering why Livia made such a fuss. It would seem that Dan's trip was not just to save Emily but also the other girl and to stop the guy from doing it again. Logical.

Livia has obviously been burned by the unintended consequences of her own independent actions. The both have an instinct of some kind that guides them, and both knew that Dan was not supposed to save the other girl. It seems wrong to not help someone when you're able to, but this unknown entity guiding them seems to have some sort of utilitarian plan and is not above sacrificing some lives for its "greater good".

What's not clear is why Dan was given the extra time to follow his own plan. That was a bit of cheating by the writers, I think. (Unless I missed something.} They should have had him postpone his "official" mission in order to have the extra time to complete his own.

unicorngoddess · 11-20-2007, 11:36 AM

My theory was maybe he wasn't suppose to help the second girl because she could've grown up to be bad. But then I thought, well Emily wasn't doing too good after he saved her and he kept being sent back to put her on the right track.

And I think if someone just told me that the guy that I helped put away for kidnapping only did 6 years and was just recently released I would be a little bit more paranoid.

danplaysbass · 11-20-2007, 12:33 PM

No spoilers but next week looks like it will be awesome!!

headroll · 11-20-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danplaysbass

No spoilers but next week looks like it will be awesome!!

+1

TAsunder · 11-20-2007, 01:14 PM

Great episode. I don't think it was weak writing that livia was adamant about dan not going "off the rails". She seems to be a little more resigned to her fate than Dan. I do think that the writers are flip flopping a bit, though. It seemed in early episodes that he literally could not change events other than the ones on the rails, now they are opening it up quite a bit. Perhaps his early attempts were just coincidentally futile only.

teknikel · 11-20-2007, 01:15 PM

I love this show and this episode was good.

Were the bricks at the rave moving because of the bass thumping or was Emily pushing on them?

I thought when Zack/Zach got the headache he was going to take a journey. But once they continued to look for him I realized he was still there.

Also, in the middle of the ep. I was thinking, "Wow, they are going to resolve this Dan/Jack conflict much sooner than I ever expected". Not.

Now, I will pose the question for discussion again, what is the catalyst to go back? And does Livia get there first?

Is it to change that person's future? If so, is there a specific change that is to take place?

Does someone have a map of all the timelines? e.g. was Kelso's Kuts the result we were looking for here (actually, I was worried that maybe since her business had to do with kids that maybe she found ways to also abuse them. And that was the bad consequence. But that had nothing to do with the capture of bad guy [can't remember his name]) or could something else have happened and TPTB would be satisfied?

Are those to be saved picked randomly?

I'll spare you my other questions for now. Any ideas?

5thcrewman · 11-20-2007, 01:41 PM

The realtor was getting a real 'Emilio Lizardo' look going as he aged!

ethos42 · 11-20-2007, 01:51 PM

Livia keeps saying "Follow your instincts"

Wasn't it his instincts that said he had to save the other girl?

I like the show, but there's a lot of creative liberty taken when they just don't feel like explaining what's going on.

ZooCaretaker · 11-20-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fool Me Twice

Livia has obviously been burned by the unintended consequences of her own independent actions.

It's curious that since she returns to the 40's after her journeys, that she would even be aware of unintended consequences.

unicorngoddess · 11-20-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooCaretaker

It's curious that since she returns to the 40's after her journeys, that she would even be aware of unintended consequences.

I thought of that too. What does it matter for her? None of this has ever happened in her timeline before. Which brings me back to wondering what good a time traveler from the past can do.

Also, its no fair. She told Dan he should invest in old currency and he said it was really expensive...but she doesn't have to worry about that because her currency is already from the past.

Bryanmc · 11-20-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorngoddess

I thought of that too. What does it matter for her? None of this has ever happened in her timeline before. Which brings me back to wondering what good a time traveler from the past can do.

Also, its no fair. She told Dan he should invest in old currency and he said it was really expensive...but she doesn't have to worry about that because her currency is already from the past.

Yeah, but it'd be just as expensive for her because everything costs 10 times more in her future.

HarryFenton · 11-20-2007, 02:53 PM

At the end of the episode, when Dan realized that he never had the conversation with Jack about the $20 bill OR the psycho real estate guy, why didn't Dan just bring up the $20 bill incident again? That was the reason that Jack started to believe him; it would have given him pause all over again and he would have to rethink it.

Also, in the prior episode when Jack was at the bar spending the evidence bill, Jack should have already suspected.

Finally, however, why is the FBI agent still talking about the Dylan McCleen case? After Jack dumped the balance of the money at the convenience store on the dead hippy, why didn't that make the case go away? They would have discovered most of the money right at the store and also at the previous poker game. A final bill from the McCleen stash would be old news after that change of events, so the FBI guy wouldn't be looking for McCleen.

Regarding Lydia, how does she always appear so put together in modern clothing? Why isn't she in 1948 wear? Other than the "really old newspaper" that she hands to the pushcart guy, there's nothing to indicate that she's pulled out of the past (or pulled out of her life - or sleep - by some inconvenience).

Also, is she definitely dead in the 2007 world? She's mid-30's in 1948, she could be mid-90's in 2007. Finally, if all the stuff happens to her in the future, how does she remember any of it it the past and when she jumps to a point before the present she shared with Dan? Dan doesn't have that problem because of history; but shouldn't he also "forget" things that were erased? Does he live outside of time that he has an independent memory of events?

unicorngoddess · 11-20-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryFenton

Regarding Lydia, how does she always appear so put together in modern clothing? Why isn't she in 1948 wear? Other than the "really old newspaper" that she hands to the pushcart guy, there's nothing to indicate that she's pulled out of the past (or pulled out of her life - or sleep - by some inconvenience).

Also, her hair is so straight. I didn't think long straight hair like that was the style in the late 40s.