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Old 07-08-2009, 06:50 AM   #721
ehagberg
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Any news as to when 11.0d will get pushed to a wider audience?

I'm still suffering (to some extent) with my FIOS pixellation and would love to see this nagging problem just go away.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:36 AM   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehagberg View Post
Any news as to when 11.0d will get pushed to a wider audience?

I'm still suffering (to some extent) with my FIOS pixellation and would love to see this nagging problem just go away.
It's been in test 8 days and that usually takes two weeks (depending on feedback). It might be another week or so before it begins going out to everyone (if they're happy with the results) and then it's the luck of the draw as to when it'll show up. Hang in there!
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:01 AM   #723
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Hello all,
Sorry if this is obvious (or has been talked about/answered), I just don't have time to read all 25 pages of this post.
Just a few weeks ago this started to happen... My local HD channels (CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, UPN) started to "cut out" (pixelated) on us and are basically unwatchable. All recording are very messed up.
Is the Verizon FIOS problem or my Tivo S3? All other HD channels seem to be fine.

Thanks and again sorry if this has already been explained.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:48 PM   #724
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Your particular issue doesn't interest me much. But I am really impressed by the wealth of theoretical and practical information bkdtv has given you. Wouldn't some appreciation be appropriate?
trust me, i'm absolutely appreciative of all the comments regarding my issues. i love forums like this where people share experiences and knowledge.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:43 PM   #725
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We have just made the decision to roll 11.0d to the rest of the units in the field. Barring any unforeseen delays, all HD DVRs will have it by this weekend so there isn't a need for a priority list.

I just want to remind everyone that the update will happen automatically. Forcing a connection will not bump you up the list to receive the SW. We manually add TSNs once a day to receive the update. The only way it would help you get SW faster is if you happen to make the connection between the time we map it and the time your DVR is already scheduled to connect.

Thank you all for your patience while we assessed this update.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:48 PM   #726
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TivoJerry,

Hello.

I'm kind of lost here as I have been loosely following this
thread through email subscription.

Am I understanding correctly that Tivo is rolling out a software
update for all their HD DVRs that will fix the pixelation problems
caused by Verizon Fios incompatibility?

If this is the case, how does one download the software? You
claim that it will be done automatically, but being unfamiliar with
the manner in which Tivo updates software I was not certain if
anything had to be done manually to accept the update.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:58 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRonbo View Post
TivoJerry,

Hello.

I'm kind of lost here as I have been loosely following this
thread through email subscription.

Am I understanding correctly that Tivo is rolling out a software
update for all their HD DVRs that will fix the pixelation problems
caused by Verizon Fios incompatibility?

If this is the case, how does one download the software? You
claim that it will be done automatically, but being unfamiliar with
the manner in which Tivo updates software I was not certain if
anything had to be done manually to accept the update.
You don't have to do anything. This and all software downloads happen automatically when TiVo connects to the "mother ship" to get guide data, etc. That generally happens once per day. The update will also install automatically at 2 a.m. your local time.

Just as an FYI once the download has completed you may see "Pending restart" listed in the “Last Status” line on the Phone & Network Screen or on the System Information screen. As mentioned TiVo will automatically install the upgrade at 2 a.m. your time or you can reboot it using the TiVo menu Restart option or unplug it and plug it back in and it will update immediately.

Last edited by richsadams : 07-13-2009 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:00 PM   #728
NJRonbo
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Cool, thanks Rich.

So, what is this update all about? Is it going to fix the problem?

Can I take the attenuators off of the Tivo? They were beginning to
fail in any event.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:13 PM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRonbo View Post
Cool, thanks Rich.

So, what is this update all about? Is it going to fix the problem?

Can I take the attenuators off of the Tivo? They were beginning to
fail in any event.
The update is about exactly the problem that required the attenuators. AFAIK it has fixed the problem for everyone who has the update. BTW how do you tell an attenuator is failing?
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:18 PM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRonbo View Post
So, what is this update all about? Is it going to fix the problem?

Can I take the attenuators off of the Tivo? They were beginning to
fail in any event.
Here's what Jerry had to say originally...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...39#post7362339

Ideally you should be able to remove any attenuation. Fingers crossed.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:10 PM   #731
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You should no longer need any attenuators after the 11.0d update. Refer to TiVoJerry's post above and my review of the 11.0d update on July 2nd.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:28 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by NJRonbo View Post
Cool, thanks Rich.

So, what is this update all about? Is it going to fix the problem?

Can I take the attenuators off of the Tivo? They were beginning to
fail in any event.
Attenuators fail? That's unlikely. An attenuator is nothing but a small resistor network comprised of three resistors. I've never seen one fail, unless someone applies a fairly large ( > 5V) voltage across the input or output.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:29 PM   #733
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I just hope 11.0d doesn't disturb anything for non-FIOS users. Hopefully there were a good percentage of non-FIOS users involved in beta testing. I'm going on 3 week vacation out of state starting Wednesday and so my S3s will be at the mercy of hands off software upgrades. I suppose it should likely be fine since TiVo decided to release the software to everyone despite at least 1 complaint I've seen I think from a Comcast user that it broke things. Hopefully it was determined that the side effects for non-FIOS users were minimal especially seeing as FIOS users are still a very small minority compared to user base at large.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:48 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
My understanding is that VZ does not compress their signals (hence the reason for the superior PQ).
All digitally transmitted video is highly compressed. An uncompressed digital SD stream requires a minimum of 120 Mbps @ 8 bits per sample for "good" reproduction, 150 Mbps @ 10 bits per sample for "excellent" reproduction, and 180 Mbps @12 bits per sample for "perfect" reproduction. (Twelve bits per sample allows for a digitization error as low as 0.025%. which is below the threshold of detectability for a human being.) A 60 fps 1080p stream can run as high as 3Gbps. I don't know what rate shape Verizon applies, but I suspect it would be the more or less "standard" rate of 2 HD and 1 SD streams in a (very much standard) 38 Mbps QAM. Such a rate shape allows videos to occasionally peak at just a bit over 20Mbps.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I just hope 11.0d doesn't disturb anything for non-FIOS users. Hopefully there were a good percentage of non-FIOS users involved in beta testing. I'm going on 3 week vacation out of state starting Wednesday and so my S3s will be at the mercy of hands off software upgrades. I suppose it should likely be fine since TiVo decided to release the software to everyone despite at least 1 complaint I've seen I think from a Comcast user that it broke things. Hopefully it was determined that the side effects for non-FIOS users were minimal especially seeing as FIOS users are still a very small minority compared to user base at large.
Of course we took this into consideration. We tested with plenty of non-FiOS customers.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:32 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by TiVoJerry View Post
Of course we took this into consideration. We tested with plenty of non-FiOS customers.
Can the 11.0d fix(es) be beneficial for non-FIOS setups in some cases?

I've had my HD/Cable-card/TA setup for four days and it is working great. I've been holding my breath that 11.0d won't break it.

It's so nice to have a TiVo engineer working with us on the forum, especially one with the GrillMeister rating!
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:49 PM   #737
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Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Can the 11.0d fix(es) be beneficial for non-FIOS setups in some cases?
You must have missed these posts?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...08#post7383308

Quote:
"Of course we took this into consideration. We tested with plenty of non-FiOS customers."
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...39#post7362339

Quote:
"The main intent of this SW is to reduce pixelation for FiOS customers. Results have been extremely favorable. The changes made may even improve video quality with other providers as well."

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Old 07-13-2009, 07:53 PM   #738
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All digitally transmitted video is highly compressed. An uncompressed digital SD stream requires a minimum of 120 Mbps @ 8 bits per sample for "good" reproduction, 150 Mbps @ 10 bits per sample for "excellent" reproduction, and 180 Mbps @12 bits per sample for "perfect" reproduction. (Twelve bits per sample allows for a digitization error as low as 0.025%. which is below the threshold of detectability for a human being.) A 60 fps 1080p stream can run as high as 3Gbps. I don't know what rate shape Verizon applies, but I suspect it would be the more or less "standard" rate of 2 HD and 1 SD streams in a (very much standard) 38 Mbps QAM. Such a rate shape allows videos to occasionally peak at just a bit over 20Mbps.
bkdtv responded earlier and this is more good info. Explains why HBOHD looks so lousy compared to some other channels.
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:44 AM   #739
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I got the update on all three of my S3 boxes this evening.

So far, on all the channels I have checked, the signal is pegged at 100, the RS Corrected/RS Uncorrected errors are at zero, and the picture looks fine. Even channel 411, which used to show many errors and noticeable pixelation, is perfect.

I hope it stays this way, and that everyone has the same good results

Thanks TiVo.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:48 AM   #740
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Long Reboot for both Series3 and TiVo HD After Upgrade

DC's post reminded me of the upgrade so just for fun I forced a connection on our TiVo Series3 and our TiVo HD tonight. After the connection both showed "Pending restart" so I tried a menu reboot. Left them alone for about fifteen minutes and when I returned interestingly both boxes were still on the "Almost there...just a few minutes more" screen. Since this wasn't a regular service update I didn't expect to see the normal update screens, but I hadn't seen them stay on the "Almost there..." screens that long either. I left them alone and checked back in another fifteen minutes and both were playing normally. I'm not sure how long the reboot actually took. Most people won't notice as updates are installed at 2 a.m. local time, but it was a little concerning to see them take so long to boot up this time.

After they came to life I checked and both are now on v11.0d. I took a quick look at various channels. FIOS problems have been a rarity and although we've seen some macroblocking/pixeization I've never added any attenuation. There are a few channels that I know have some issues (RS Uncorrected errors) in our household including VersusHD and USAHD. It was only a ten minute test or so, but so far RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors all show zeros. FWIW the PQ on both channels looked quite good, in particular USAHD seemed to look better (might be my imagination though). Everything else seems to be functioning normally (but I didn't take the time to look at all of the bells and whistles).

Certainly not conclusive findings so I'll have to spend a little more time checking things out later but in a nutshell I'd say so far so good for FIOS and v11.0d !
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:58 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
DC's post reminded me of the upgrade so just for fun I forced a connection on our TiVo Series3 and our TiVo HD tonight. After the connection both showed "Pending restart" so I tried a menu reboot. Left them alone for about fifteen minutes and when I returned interestingly both boxes were still on the "Almost there...just a few minutes more" screen. ...
One of my boxes needed to be unplugged as it got stuck on the "Welcome! powering up..." screen for a good two hours.

The last box didn't reboot at 2:00 am. I'm not sure why
A soft reboot did the trick though.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:52 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
FWIW the PQ on both channels looked quite good, in particular USAHD seemed to look better (might be my imagination though).
I received the d update a week or so ago and removed my 20dB of attenuation. One thing I noticed right away was that USAHD looked A LOT better. Without attenuation I would have pixelation problems, with the attenuation I had an odd picture tearing effect, minor, much better than pixelation, but still noticeable and annoying.

Since the update and removing the attenuation the picture on USAHD has been excellent.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:08 AM   #743
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Confirming no pixelation (or rs errors) on FIOS with 11d with no attenuation. Previously I had minor pixelation on some and major pixelation on other channels with -6db applied. Smooth sailing now!
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post
One of my boxes needed to be unplugged as it got stuck on the "Welcome! powering up..." screen for a good two hours.

The last box didn't reboot at 2:00 am. I'm not sure why
A soft reboot did the trick though.
I almost pulled the plug...I haven't much patience plus it was getting late...but I decided to leave them alone a little longer and it paid off. It seems like there are always a few folks that end up doing a hard reboot after an upgrade. Odd that it didn't install automatically on your other box either.

Quote:
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I received the d update a week or so ago and removed my 20dB of attenuation. One thing I noticed right away was that USAHD looked A LOT better. Without attenuation I would have pixelation problems, with the attenuation I had an odd picture tearing effect, minor, much better than pixelation, but still noticeable and annoying.

Since the update and removing the attenuation the picture on USAHD has been excellent.
20dB of attenuation? So it's not my imagination that USAHD looks better? Phew! I didn't have any attenuation though, so maybe it is my imagination. Who knows.

We have SP's for several shows on USAHD including House, Burn Notice and my wife likes Royal Pains (trade off for Burn Notice I think ). The last episode of Royal Pains had some terrible pixelization, enough that we had to FF though parts. There were glitches now and then but I hadn't seen anything that bad previously. Hope now that (in addition to the possible PQ improvements) the pixelization will be a thing of the past.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:52 AM   #745
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Well, yeah, I think I really wanted to do 19 but couldn't and 18 was 3 sixes maybe? I don't remember exactly except to say that I was using a combination of 3 attenuators and needed slightly more, the 1 20 worked as the best compromise.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:50 AM   #746
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Cox cable here. Got the 11.0d upgrade on both my S3s and they installed very quickly and without issue - seemed like less than 20 minutes each. Probably helps that currently I have almost no recordings on either one. I checked a few of the channels I record from the most for a few minutes and didn't see any RS corrected/uncorrected errors. Note that I didn't have any issues before the upgrade so was just checking to see that the upgrade didn't affect anything. Only time will tell for sure but on a preliminary basis looks to be OK thus far.
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:35 PM   #747
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Most people won't notice as updates are installed at 2 a.m. local time, but it was a little concerning to see them take so long to boot up this time.
[Pure speculation]
Maybe it involves a firmware upgrade to one of the other chips?

[/Pure speculation]

Glad they finally fixed it. I may switch to FIOS soon.
NOT glad it took 18 months. I'd get fired if it took me that long to fix something like that.
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:54 PM   #748
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[Pure speculation]
Maybe it involves a firmware upgrade to one of the other chips?

[/Pure speculation]

Glad they finally fixed it. I may switch to FIOS soon.
NOT glad it took 18 months. I'd get fired if it took me that long to fix something like that.
IIRC TiVo firmware is never, has never been upgraded, only the software. Could be wrong but IIRC that was a statement made by Jerry or Stephen or someone at TiVo a while back.

So far (even with the few glitches) FIOS has been great for us. I'm still on the "it wasn't TiVo's fault...millions of boxes work fine otherwise and I'm glad they stepped up to the plate side of things. But let's not go there...ever again. ).
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:07 PM   #749
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The update is about exactly the problem that required the attenuators. AFAIK it has fixed the problem for everyone who has the update. BTW how do you tell an attenuator is failing?

what about those of us that never had a problem with FIOS?
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:11 PM   #750
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Seems OK here

I got it last night and manually rebooted. Took about 20 minutes for the install.

No problems here, but I've never had any prior (with no attenuation). Just glad it didn't seem to break anything!

I still have a relatively low signal on two QAM pods (591 and 597 MHz) but that didn't cause any problems before either. There is another thread where there are reports of a problem. I've posted it on the VZ Direct forum at BBR but haven't heard anything back. My only concern with it is that there is failing hardware on VZ's end and it may get worse before it gets better.

I don't see any difference on USA though.

So far, so good!
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