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Old 12-03-2008, 09:14 PM   #421
exdishguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
The problem below is almost exactly what I have. 628 and 639 are worst for me. 585 and 625 are watchable but have a little pixellation now and then. Other two seem fine.

I haven't tried attenuation myself yet. Verizon is coming Friday.

My signal strength on these channels is low (45 or 50, sometimes dropping to 0 them popping back up to 45 or 50) and my SNR tends to be 30db or 29db. Sometimes it is actually the magic "31", but I still have pixellation even at 31.

Is attentuation likely to help me, or do I need something else?

As others have reported, I had no issues until the recent channel lineup change.

And tips / suggestions / sharing of experience greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sounds like you won't be able to attenuate. Have the tech check the signal but you may need to get the signal up before worrying about attenuating to 31db. How long is your RG6 cable run?
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:56 AM   #422
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I have three TiVo HDs, all having the same problem. There's a three-way splitter outside by the ONT. Two of my TiVos are far from the splitter, so the cables are very long. One is only about 10 feet away.

As far as I can tell, the problem is about the same on all three units. Does that make sense? Or should it be better on the one with less cable?

Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by exdishguy View Post
Sounds like you won't be able to attenuate. Have the tech check the signal but you may need to get the signal up before worrying about attenuating to 31db. How long is your RG6 cable run?

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Old 12-04-2008, 10:32 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
I have three TiVo HDs, all having the same problem. There's a three-way splitter outside by the ONT. Two of my TiVos are far from the splitter, so the cables are very long. One is only about 10 feet away.

As far as I can tell, the problem is about the same on all three units. Does that make sense? Or should it be better on the one with less cable?

Thanks
Well there would be some loss over longer distances but it sounds like you have another issue. My signal was very hot no matter at all of my three Tivo HDs - I think the tech said I was +5dB.

One thing I noticed is that like your situation, my bad channels seem to "bounce" in terms of signal strength and SNR rather wildly. The signal strength on my bad channels can drop from 58 to 0 when things are really bad.
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:40 AM   #424
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update - low QAM frequencies problem

Verizon was out today to my house. I am in the Maryland suburbs of Washington and have the same problems on the same channels. I have the same issues on all three TiVo HDs in my house, so I find it extremely unlikely that my issue is related to problems with a particular TiVo or cablecard.

The tech tried all the usual TiVo fixes, like attenuation and a low-pass filter. It made no difference.

He then tested the frequencies listed below on his little "tricorder-like" device (not sure what it's called) and reported that he was getting errors on those frequencies. He went outside and tested the signal coming directly from the ONT. Same result.

He called The FSC and said they opened a ticket for the NNMC or something like that to check the signal for the channels on these frequencies at the Central Office later today. My ticket was closed. The tech suggested I call back next week to follow up if the problem hasn't been resolved by then.

He agreed with what's already been suggested here on the forum, namely that:

1. This QAM low frequency pixellation problem is not the same as the more widely known "signal too hot - attenuation" issue, and can not be resolved by attenuating.
2. The signal appears to be too low coming from upstream from my house on those channels only, while if anything, it is too hot on all the other channels.
3. The reason they aren't deluged with complaints is because TiVo's tuners seem to be more sensitive to this "low signal on certain frequencies only" issue than Verizon's STBs.

I agree with what's been said before, that we need to keep complaining until they realize this is a global issue with their signal strength on these frequencies and respond accordingly.

I plan to give them a week or so and then call the Verizon executive complaint department if it comes to that.

I also am going to call TiVo support later today. I know they can't help me, but maybe they can try to escalate this with Verizon?

This is very frustrating, as it's probably something that could be fixed quickly if we could just get the attention of the right person.

I'll update again next week.

-Bivrak

P.S. Should there be a separate thread for this issue, since several of us are seeing that it cannot be resolved by attenuating, and is specific to these few channels?


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Originally Posted by sinanju View Post
My report has gone to the Chronic Resolutions Team in Providence. The original trouble ticket is closed, but presumably "Tony" has the issue as one of his to-dos.

If anyone else is still experiencing pixelation after applying the attenuation fix, I'd suggest you keep on them -- perhaps we can achieve some sort of critical mass to get them focused.

I'd especially look at lower QAM frequencies... in my case, I have consistent pixelation on 123, 117, and 111MHz. It appears that the attenuation fix might have worked for them, but the signal is not stable enough -- signal strength is highly variable, as is the SNR, with occasional crashes to 0. You'll only be able to find out what channels are on what frequencies by going to the TiVo's diagnostics screen, hitting the Live TV button, finding the channel, left arrow back to the diagnostics screen, hit Live TV, channel up, left arrow, repeat ad nauseum.

If you are in New England, the lower frequencies I mentioned map as follows:
  • 111MHz 622 (Science HD), 630 (Animal Planet HD)
  • 117MHz 585 (Big 10 HD), 625 (Smithsonian HD)
  • 123MHz 628 (History HD), 639 (TLC HD)

If I reduce the attenuation, that seems to fix those lower frequencies by making the bottom end of the range of instability still high enough to avoid uncorrectable errors, but at the expense of blowing out all of the other channels.

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Old 12-05-2008, 10:55 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
He then tested the frequencies listed below on his little "tricorder-like" device (not sure what it's called) and reported that he was getting errors on those frequencies. He went outside and tested the signal coming directly from the ONT. Same result.
I believe they call it a "Sunrise Meter".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
I agree with what's been said before, that we need to keep complaining until they realize this is a global issue with their signal strength on these frequencies and respond accordingly.

I plan to give them a week or so and then call the Verizon executive complaint department if it comes to that.
The complaint resolutions number at Verizon is +1 800 483 7988

Quote:
Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
I also am going to call TiVo support later today. I know they can't help me, but maybe they can try to escalate this with Verizon?
Actually, if you just call 1st line support and tell them that you're getting nowhere with truck rolls, you can also suggest they forward your ticket to Chronic Resolutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
This is very frustrating, as it's probably something that could be fixed quickly if we could just get the attention of the right person.
If you want to PM me your ticket number and your location, I'll add it to the pile I'm trying to form on the desk of the Chronic Resolutions folks in my area. So far, only my ticket and exdishguy's are on that pile. I don't know what critical mass would be for action, but I'm pretty sure that number isn't "2".
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:46 PM   #426
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Has the new software update (if it didn't cause any other bugs) addressed the pixellation problem? I've only needed a slight attenuation (8db) to eliminate the pixellation and wondered what everyone else was doing.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:15 PM   #427
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Has the new software update (if it didn't cause any other bugs) addressed the pixellation problem?
No.
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #428
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Hmmm... since Animal Planet and Science are two channels we're like to enjoy, perhaps we should hold off switching to FiOS until this is resolved? Is this problem affecting everyone with TiVos, or just a small percentage?
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:26 AM   #429
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Has the new software update (if it didn't cause any other bugs) addressed the pixellation problem? I've only needed a slight attenuation (8db) to eliminate the pixellation and wondered what everyone else was doing.
I've been playing with attenuation for a couple of months now, trying to dial it in.

After the update I removed all attenuation. Over a period of 48 hours I felt that there was less pixelation then I had experience in the past, but that doesn't mean much as it has always been a fairly random event in my case, it did take awhile to find programs that were pixelating though.

So now I'm back to my 20dB attenuator.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:21 AM   #430
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So now I'm back to my 20dB attenuator.
If you have a trouble ticket, opened or closed, with Verizon, I'd love to add it to the pile I'm trying to build at the Chronic Resolution center along with mine, bivrak's and exdishguy's.

PM me the number and your town, if you want to join the club.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:45 AM   #431
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If you have a trouble ticket, opened or closed, with Verizon, I'd love to add it to the pile I'm trying to build at the Chronic Resolution center along with mine, bivrak's and exdishguy's.

PM me the number and your town, if you want to join the club.
I do not. I haven't ever called about video issues. I've spent my energy trying to get my 20/5 working, and keep it up. Every other month something happens and I lose my internet. One tech came and cut my line, that took 2 weeks to get fixed. Then just last week "they" did something to my account and it turned off my internet. That took 4 days to get corrected. Just yesterday it went out again and I had to call and have them break the lease to get it back up.

I've often contemplated about opening a ticket about the pixelation, but I just haven't bothered.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #432
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I've often contemplated about opening a ticket about the pixelation, but I just haven't bothered.
I would encourage you to do so, though I understand time constraints. If you let 1st line support know that you're aware of the attenuation recommendation and you can provide the ticket number of others with the same issue (you can certainly have mine and I'll let bivrak and exdishguy speak for themselves), perhaps you can get fast-tracked through the normal, useless stuff they usually try.
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:38 AM   #433
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So this is a follow up to some of my posts earlier, talking about a diplexer fixing my particular Verizon FiOS cable card + TIVO HD problem. It is still working except between 8-9:30 on Tuesday night. For whatever reason on that night I get a bunch of RS errors all around the 5.1 MHz frequency, which ends up being HD broadcast channels. I am in the Portland, OR area and I am wondering if others are seeing this too. I tried to attenuate the problem away on Tuesday night and that made it WORSE. So this is an altogether new problem. But as someone else in this thread wrote, heck if it works 98% of the time I guess I'm happy. Still want to get this resolved though.

- SubG
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:51 AM   #434
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I am in the Portland, OR area and I am wondering if others are seeing this too.
I'm in Lake Oswego and haven't pulled the trigger on FIOS just yet (still have Comcast) but I'm following this and other FIOS threads closely. I'd be really interested to know as well...and what you or anyone else is doing to resolve things. Thanks for checking in and TIA for reporting back!
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:01 PM   #435
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So this is a follow up to some of my posts earlier, talking about a diplexer fixing my particular Verizon FiOS cable card + TIVO HD problem. It is still working except between 8-9:30 on Tuesday night. For whatever reason on that night I get a bunch of RS errors all around the 5.1 MHz frequency, which ends up being HD broadcast channels. I am in the Portland, OR area and I am wondering if others are seeing this too. I tried to attenuate the problem away on Tuesday night and that made it WORSE. So this is an altogether new problem. But as someone else in this thread wrote, heck if it works 98% of the time I guess I'm happy. Still want to get this resolved though.

- SubG
I have a diplexer fixing my pixelation. Granted, I only get to watch a couple of hours of TV a day and it is all recorded, I still haven't seen any pixelation since putting the diplexer on about 2 months ago.
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:30 PM   #436
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I am in the Portland, OR area and I am wondering if others are seeing this too.
I'm out in Hillsboro, and it dawned on me today that I can't actually tell you when I last saw pixelation. Maybe it's just the channels I'm watching, but I'm not experiencing ANY issues with picture quality right now (I still have my 6db attenuator on). So instead of 98%... go ahead and bump me up to 99.8% happy with quality of service.

And 21% happy with the billing department, but that's another issue.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:32 PM   #437
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Finally getting an M-Card to try out. I should have it by Friday. I don't know if it will work or not but its worth a try since nothing else seems to work.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:34 AM   #438
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cautiously optimistic - may be fixed

I'm not positive yet, but it looks like they may have fixed this in Maryland / suburban Washington yesterday.

Last night I checked, and I had no problems on any of the six low frequency channels identified earlier by Sinanju.

The ones that had been worst for me had been 628 and 639. They'd been literally unwatchable for the last couple of weeks. Last night they looked perfect.

DVR Diagnistics showed a signal fluctuating between 62 and 68. (Had been between 40 and 50 dropping down to 0 when signal lock was lost.)

SNR was consistently 31 or 32. (Had been in the 20s.)

And RS Uncorrected never budged from 0. (Had very rapidly increased before.)

I've read where people say these problems occasionally get better at certain times of day and then return. So I was afraid channels 628 and 639 would be unwatchable again this morning. But I just checked, and I'm seeing the same thing as last night. They still look perfect.

So yeah, I still want to see this result consistently at different times of day for the next few days before I declare victory, but it's looking very good right now.

I hope if it really is fixed that they'll soon do the same thing in other parts of the country and fix it for the rest of you, if they haven't already.

Sinanju, how are things in New England today?

I'll give what I hope will be my final update within a few days.

-Bivrak



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Originally Posted by bivrak View Post
Verizon was out today to my house. I am in the Maryland suburbs of Washington and have the same problems on the same channels. I have the same issues on all three TiVo HDs in my house, so I find it extremely unlikely that my issue is related to problems with a particular TiVo or cablecard.

The tech tried all the usual TiVo fixes, like attenuation and a low-pass filter. It made no difference.

He then tested the frequencies listed below on his little "tricorder-like" device (not sure what it's called) and reported that he was getting errors on those frequencies. He went outside and tested the signal coming directly from the ONT. Same result.

He called The FSC and said they opened a ticket for the NNMC or something like that to check the signal for the channels on these frequencies at the Central Office later today. My ticket was closed. The tech suggested I call back next week to follow up if the problem hasn't been resolved by then.

He agreed with what's already been suggested here on the forum, namely that:

1. This QAM low frequency pixellation problem is not the same as the more widely known "signal too hot - attenuation" issue, and can not be resolved by attenuating.
2. The signal appears to be too low coming from upstream from my house on those channels only, while if anything, it is too hot on all the other channels.
3. The reason they aren't deluged with complaints is because TiVo's tuners seem to be more sensitive to this "low signal on certain frequencies only" issue than Verizon's STBs.

I agree with what's been said before, that we need to keep complaining until they realize this is a global issue with their signal strength on these frequencies and respond accordingly.

I plan to give them a week or so and then call the Verizon executive complaint department if it comes to that.

I also am going to call TiVo support later today. I know they can't help me, but maybe they can try to escalate this with Verizon?

This is very frustrating, as it's probably something that could be fixed quickly if we could just get the attention of the right person.

I'll update again next week.

-Bivrak

P.S. Should there be a separate thread for this issue, since several of us are seeing that it cannot be resolved by attenuating, and is specific to these few channels?

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Old 12-11-2008, 07:58 AM   #439
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This issue is like an elderly relative -- it has good days and bad days. Lately, things had been pretty good. There have been stretches of no errors at all. Then even longer stretches where the error rate has been entirely correctable. This morning, in just 200 seconds, I have 460k correctable and 42k uncorrectable errors on 628.

Sadly, I don't think anything has changed for any of us. I think there's just been a run of good luck.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:23 PM   #440
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caution was justified, optimism not so much

You're right. Things are bad again here this evening. Sigh.


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This issue is like an elderly relative -- it has good days and bad days. Lately, things had been pretty good. There have been stretches of no errors at all. Then even longer stretches where the error rate has been entirely correctable. This morning, in just 200 seconds, I have 460k correctable and 42k uncorrectable errors on 628.

Sadly, I don't think anything has changed for any of us. I think there's just been a run of good luck.

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Old 12-13-2008, 10:29 PM   #441
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You're right. Things are bad again here this evening. Sigh.
My neighbor called me today and asked if I was having problems with Fios. He told me some of the channels "distort and break up" and when he watches them. Here is the bonus: they are they same channels I am having issues with AND HE HAS A MOTOROLA 7000 series DVR!

I'm not saying that Tivo is completely off the hook, but in my case and in my area, it seems to me that Verizon has signal integrity issues at the head-end on certain channels/frequencies.

What is really depressing is that my Fios tech found some M-Cards for me but since the Moto 7000 uses an M-Card, I'm not so sure that they will help me other than lowering my monthly out-of-pocket for cablecards.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:03 AM   #442
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I have M cards and I am having the problem. I can't speak for whether or not M cards help with the "signal too hot - solve by attenuation" problem as I've never had that, but they don't seem to prevent the "signal too weak on low frequencies" problem. Though to be fair, I can't say for sure my issues wouldn't be worse with S cards. But I can say M cards won't completely make the issues go away.

Maybe it's a good sign that someone with non-TiVo hardware is having the problem. Maybe they'll get more complaints.

I work in the technology field myself, and also for a large company - though not as large as Verizon. My guess is that this problem probably could be resolved fairly easily and quickly if it could be brought to the attention of the right person or group. The real problem is getting the huge Verizon bureaucracy, where the right hand almost always knows nothing about the left, to recognize there's an issue and bring it to the right person or group's attention. That may take us months, and then it's likely to be fixed in a day or two. Frustrating!

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My neighbor called me today and asked if I was having problems with Fios. He told me some of the channels "distort and break up" and when he watches them. Here is the bonus: they are they same channels I am having issues with AND HE HAS A MOTOROLA 7000 series DVR!

I'm not saying that Tivo is completely off the hook, but in my case and in my area, it seems to me that Verizon has signal integrity issues at the head-end on certain channels/frequencies.

What is really depressing is that my Fios tech found some M-Cards for me but since the Moto 7000 uses an M-Card, I'm not so sure that they will help me other than lowering my monthly out-of-pocket for cablecards.

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Old 12-14-2008, 09:12 AM   #443
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I have M cards and I am having the problem. I can't speak for whether or not M cards help with the "signal too hot - solve by attenuation" problem as I've never had that, but they don't seem to prevent the "signal too weak on low frequencies" problem. Though to be fair, I can't say for sure my issues wouldn't be worse with S cards. But I can say M cards won't completely make the issues go away.

Maybe it's a good sign that someone with non-TiVo hardware is having the problem. Maybe they'll get more complaints.

I work in the technology field myself, and also for a large company - though not as large as Verizon. My guess is that this problem probably could be resolved fairly easily and quickly if it could be brought to the attention of the right person or group. The real problem is getting the huge Verizon bureaucracy, where the right hand almost always knows nothing about the left, to recognize there's an issue and bring it to the right person or group's attention. That may take us months, and then it's likely to be fixed in a day or two. Frustrating!
I plan on walking my Fios tech next door to see the problem for himself on the neighbors DVR. That said, I think there are at least a couple of issues at hand here - the sensitivity of the tuners in the Tivo boxes which can be corrected with attenuators. And signal integrity issues at the head-end in the Fios system that result in MPEG errors that on some frequencies are so bad, cannot be corrected and thus result in pixelation. I suppose there is the possibility that S-Cards do not perform as well as M-Cards and contribute as well...but I doubt it.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #444
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The real problem is getting the huge Verizon bureaucracy, where the right hand almost always knows nothing about the left, to recognize there's an issue and bring it to the right person or group's attention. That may take us months, and then it's likely to be fixed in a day or two. Frustrating!
Well put. Hopefully no one will give up on doing their part to get things resolved. Those that follow (like us fence-sitters ) will be forever grateful. TIA!
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:31 AM   #445
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Well, I just joined the club!

Got Verizon Fios the other day as well as two Tivo branded HD units. Within hours I noticed major pixelation problems. Spent most of the day on the phone with Fios who helped me discover that the pixelation was only happening on those televisions in my home with Tivo. It was at that point Verizon would help me no further as they claimed they don't support Tivo since it is not their equipment.

I then found this thread and countless more across the Internet. I just ordered a package of signal attenuators from SmartHome, but God knows if that will work or not.

The more I think of this problem and the amount of complaints posted across the Internet, the more angry I have become. To think that Tivo has known about these issues for the past three years and done nothing to upgrade their units is quite disturbing.

I went over to the Tivo website in hopes of firing off a pointed letter to their customer service and executives. No such links to contact either exist. All that does exist over there is a discussion support forum. I posted this message to it today...

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/for...ostID=10413471

Who knows if anyone with influence will read it. My goal at this point is to make
some noise. I need contact information for any executives with that company. I think that Tivo owes it to its customers to upgrade these units and make replacements available to those who may be out of warranty and are still experiencing problems with the Fios service --- especially for the fact that the company has been ignoring these complaints for the past three years.

Anyone that can assist?
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:01 PM   #446
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I had to send Verizon back one of my cable cards can anyone tell me how to setup the new card through the Menu settings? I have a HD Tivo and FIOS.

Thanks


Dave
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:36 PM   #447
substance12
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attenuator location

has anyone experimented with the attenuator location? such as before the diplexer? at the tivo? at the wall outlet? would this make a difference at all?
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:24 AM   #448
NJRonbo
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People are telling me not to place the attenuator anyplace but at the
Tivo connection.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:41 PM   #449
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I am in No Va and having issues with channels 552 (TBS) and 590 most significantly. Through the use of attenuators, I was able to get the SNR to 31 (with minor fluxation) but RS uncorrected was still ~ 22700000. The pixelation was unchanged. Anyone have suggestions beyond the attenuators?? Thx
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:15 AM   #450
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Not sure if this was posted here before or not:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19801518

"If you have problems with FiOS TV....

If you are having problems with FiOS TV either pixelating/tiling/artifacting and have a 611i ONT (White ONT with 4 POTS ports, NO MOCA) or a Motorola 1000V and no one has been able to resolve the issue, check to make sure a low pass filter, MoCA Diplexer, or MOCA NID has been installed on the coax feed immediately after the ONT. There is a known issue that affects only these two types of ONTs. Basically, the video signal when tested appears to be normal and within specifications and so the tech doesn't seem to find anything wrong with the video signal out of the ONT. The actual cause however is isolated to a defect in the ONT Triplexer. What happens is that the MOCA from the Actiontec router or the motorola nim backfeeds into the ONT. The ONT is supposed to have a triplexer that keeps those signals from interefering with each other. To fix the problem, the Moca Lan signal (1125mhz-1175mhz) needs to be filtered out of the coaxial network prior to reaching the ONT 611i or ONT 1000V. The best way is to place a low pass filter immediately after the ONT which will pass through 5-860MHz video signal, but not allow the 1125-1175Mhz moca signal from the router to reach the ONT. This signal only needs to travel between router and set-top boxes. If a low pass filter is unavailable, then a diplexer or moca nid may be used. Please note this does not affect the MOCA cable ONT's such as the Tellabs 612, or the Motorola 1000M. If you are having problems with your TV service and everything else has been tried and you have this particular model ONT, make sure the technician tries this. If he has any questions tell him to refer to Doc. No. 2007-00021-MDP Issue C for methods and procedures.

Thought I would post this for those who may have this issue since unfortunately not every tech reads the methods and procedures or knows about this issue."

by "originalvztech"
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