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Old 11-18-2008, 10:52 AM   #361
subgenius37
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Originally Posted by exdishguy View Post
I'm not sure how the heck this works but I'll try anything at this point. Wouldn't this be the same as using a low-pass filter? I've tried a low-pass filter and numerous amounts of attenuation and while I can reduce the pixelation, it still happens.

In any event, you say that you ran the feed from the ONT (the wall) into the single input on the diplexer and then I assume you used the left side/antenna side to output to the Tivo HD?
Correct, that is how i have it setup. Pixelation is a result of many different things. I actually believe I needed two fixes the multi-streaming card and the diplexer. I know this will sound weird but the pixelation had a slightly different look to it once I got the multi-streaming card. Hard to describe but the pixelation pattern looked different. Perhaps too much time playing video games. At any rate I think I have a test that may help determine if a diplexer would help, but I only have one sample set (me).


A test to see if a diplexer would help would be to check to see if there is a direct correlation to increased pixelation and increased internet traffic. Start a large download and/or anything that would increase network traffic, then check the RS Corrections/Uncorrected numbers and/or just the visable pixelation. I was able to find a direct correlation between the two. My wife and I would both be on the internet streaming video or doing anything traffic intensive and boom tons of pixelation. Practically halt traffic and the attenuators did there job no problem, very LOW RS corrections and uncorrected numbers and no visible pixelation.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:54 AM   #362
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Could a picture be posted?
I'll try to post a picture of the diplexer setup later today.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:17 AM   #363
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Correct, that is how i have it setup. Pixelation is a result of many different things. I actually believe I needed two fixes the multi-streaming card and the diplexer. I know this will sound weird but the pixelation had a slightly different look to it once I got the multi-streaming card. Hard to describe but the pixelation pattern looked different. Perhaps too much time playing video games. At any rate I think I have a test that may help determine if a diplexer would help, but I only have one sample set (me).
I was under the impression that the diplexer fixed your problem... now I'm reading that you actually needed the M-card as well and that you still have pixelation? or are you saying that without the diplxer, there is a difference between the pixlation using the S and M cards?

I don't think you're the only sample. I've come across a few random posts that people have reported this working. there's also a post where the user said he/she got the fios tech to put a LPF at the ONT.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:34 AM   #364
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I was under the impression that the diplexer fixed your problem... now I'm reading that you actually needed the M-card as well and that you still have pixelation? or are you saying that without the diplxer, there is a difference between the pixlation using the S and M cards?

I don't think you're the only sample. I've come across a few random posts that people have reported this working. there's also a post where the user said he/she got the fios tech to put a LPF at the ONT.
Correct the diplexer fixed the problem. Multi-streaming did not totally remove pixelation. I was trying to indicate that I thought I saw a difference between S and M and that it possibly could have been a factor.

I am suggesting that if the diplexer doesn't fix the problem it may also need a multi-streaming card. I also know people that had Comcast had problems with their single streaming cards and that the multi-streaming cards cleared up their problem. Also Comcast and Verizon use the same brand/model of cablecards, Motorola. My original hope was that this alone would fix my problem, it didn't. The diplexer did. Because I can't try the diplexer with a single streaming card I can't say either way if the cable card was a factor in my fix, but it is part of my setup.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #365
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I'll try to post a picture of the diplexer setup later today.

Thanks
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:54 PM   #366
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Images as promised.
The first picture shows the diplexer configuration. The black coax is coming from the wall and the white is going to the tivo HD box.



The second is of the DVR diagnostic screen showing a DB strength of 38 and 0 RS corrected and 0 RS uncorrected



Hope this helps.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:53 PM   #367
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Images as promised.
The first picture shows the diplexer configuration. The black coax is coming from the wall and the white is going to the tivo HD box.



The second is of the DVR diagnostic screen showing a DB strength of 38 and 0 RS corrected and 0 RS uncorrected



Hope this helps.
Well the good news is that I have zero RS uncorrected and corrected errors (well I had maybe 8 on one channel over 10 minutes).

The bad news is that my local HD channels no longer work! (and I don't mean OTA HD...my Fios HD locals) I had to catch a last minute flight so I didn't have time to further investigate.

subgenius37, can you verify each of your channels to insure they are ALL coming in? This looks very promising but I suspect the diplexer is filtering out a portion of the band that my local HD channels are on.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:57 PM   #368
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what frequency are your local HD channels on? technically the diplexer should only filter those channels out if they are outside the frequency range. what is it? 860ish Mhz on the high end and 5Mhz on the low?
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:30 AM   #369
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what frequency are your local HD channels on? technically the diplexer should only filter those channels out if they are outside the frequency range. what is it? 860ish Mhz on the high end and 5Mhz on the low?
Dunno until I get home. The channel numbers are 502, 504, 507...in that range. But I didn't have a lot of time to play around with it and I had to hurry to reconnect the attenuators so my wife can watch TV while I'm out of town. I did check 77 MSG, 190 COM, and 250 (some cartoon channel...not sure which one) as they were all my problem channels. I also checked the SD locals on 2, 4, 7 as well as HBO on 899....life was good. But again, I had no signal at all on 502, etc.

I think this may help to further pinpoint the problem and to give my Fios tech something to work with. I'll reconnect it all up again on Sunday and give see what happens before I call them out again. Argghhh...
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:33 AM   #370
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Why do you have 2 black wires coming from the wall?

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Well the good news is that I have zero RS uncorrected and corrected errors (well I had maybe 8 on one channel over 10 minutes).

The bad news is that my local HD channels no longer work! (and I don't mean OTA HD...my Fios HD locals) I had to catch a last minute flight so I didn't have time to further investigate.

subgenius37, can you verify each of your channels to insure they are ALL coming in? This looks very promising but I suspect the diplexer is filtering out a portion of the band that my local HD channels are on.

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Old 11-21-2008, 09:35 AM   #371
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Why do you have 2 black wires coming from the wall?
Optical illusion...there's only one coax coming from the wall which loops around to the diplexer in the OP's picture.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:26 AM   #372
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Optical illusion...there's only one coax coming from the wall which loops around to the diplexer in the OP's picture.
Correct. I couldn't bend the black coax tight enough to have it all fit in the frame. Btw if you're looking for good cheap coax cable of any length monoprice.com seems to have the best deals.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:34 AM   #373
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what frequency are your local HD channels on? technically the diplexer should only filter those channels out if they are outside the frequency range. what is it? 860ish Mhz on the high end and 5Mhz on the low?
Honestly I'm not sure. I seem to get all the same channels I used to 2 through 800. I'm not sure if channel number relates to frequency though.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:08 PM   #374
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Honestly I'm not sure. I seem to get all the same channels I used to 2 through 800. I'm not sure if channel number relates to frequency though.
You can see what frequency a channel is on by looking at the diagnostics screen while you are tuned to that channel.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:23 AM   #375
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You can see what frequency a channel is on by looking at the diagnostics screen while you are tuned to that channel.
Just got back in town and checked some of the local HD channels. Channel 502 is on 507000KHz and channel 504 is at 513000KHz. Why they aren't showing up with the diplexer is beyond me. The diplexer basically acts as a low pass filter only passing 5-860MHz. Well Verizon gave me a low pass filter that is 5-860MHz and it passes the channels, but I see tons of RS uncorrected errors. With the diplexer, I see no RS errors, yet I cannot see the local HD channels.....friggin' bizarre and frustrating.

I'll try the diplexer again tomorrow and report back. Maybe I'll wait a bit to see if the local HD channels show up after 15 minutes or so....dunno.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:05 AM   #376
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Question weird pixellation problem - moving target?

So I've got FIOS with two S-cards (M-cards weren't available when they did my install or so they claimed) and a Tivo HD, which usually works fine, but I'd been noticing pixellation on a few channels, so I started surfing my HD channels and checking their frequencies to see if there was a pattern with pixellation/errors reported by the tivo diagnostic screen and the frequency.

Last night around 9 or 10pm I found that channels on 111, 117 and 123MHz were flaking out, but my wife didn't want to bother checking the rest of the channels (we've really only noticed it on HD ones, btw) so I waited until this morning and started checking things again. Strangely enough, the channels on the bad frequencies last night are having no problems whatsoever this morning, but now a different range of frequencies and channels has gone haywire: 327, 339 and 345MHz.

I do have a diplexer in place as many others have reported using one to filter out signals from the ONT/Actiontec router, but even removing that doesn't affect what I'm seeing wrt the pixellation (or lack of) this morning.

Has anyone else seen fluctuations like this? Does it sound likely to be something wrong on Verizon's end of things?

Thanks,
-Eric
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:10 AM   #377
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Has anyone else seen fluctuations like this?
Yep.

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Does it sound likely to be something wrong on Verizon's end of things?
Yes, just as it always is.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:43 AM   #378
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I installed 2 TIVO DVR's after multiple verizon DVR problems. As soon as the HD series 3 was installed I saw a lot of digital tiling. But I didn't see anything on the XL. Does anyone know if the XL has been designed to resolve these issues? Is anyone having problems with the XL? I have 14 db of attenuation on the series 3 and it has resolved all tiling issues so far but I'm only watching SD programming right now because it's hooked up to a SD set.

Has anyone thought about starting a committee or petition to Verizon? I would be interested in setting up a website or some other means to let Verizon know that their DVR's suck and that that we have to go through these issues with TIVO to get good service. I find this situation to be unacceptable. I like many of you have had verizon techs come out and don't know what the hell they are doing and have spent about 20 hours on the phone with verizon and tivo to resolve these issues.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:11 AM   #379
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I installed 2 TIVO DVR's after multiple verizon DVR problems. As soon as the HD series 3 was installed I saw a lot of digital tiling. But I didn't see anything on the XL. Does anyone know if the XL has been designed to resolve these issues? Is anyone having problems with the XL? I have 14 db of attenuation on the series 3 and it has resolved all tiling issues so far but I'm only watching SD programming right now because it's hooked up to a SD set.

Has anyone thought about starting a committee or petition to Verizon? I would be interested in setting up a website or some other means to let Verizon know that their DVR's suck and that that we have to go through these issues with TIVO to get good service. I find this situation to be unacceptable. I like many of you have had verizon techs come out and don't know what the hell they are doing and have spent about 20 hours on the phone with verizon and tivo to resolve these issues.
I have an XL and 2 HDs and have issues with all of them. I wouldn't mind starting a web site or petition right here if we can do it. Then send it to both the FCC and Verizon. I cannot believe Verizon meets CableLabs specs. I wish I could prove that, but I think this is the angle we need to voice our complaint to the FCC and Verizon.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:18 AM   #380
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Yep.

Yes, just as it always is.
So assuming this is a Verizon issue, is there something specific I should tell them to fix in order to get things working reliably?

Interestingly, at the moment, I have no pixellation (or errors) on either the low-100MHz or the mid-300MHz range at all. I imagine that'll swing one way or the other later in the day again.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:11 PM   #381
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So assuming this is a Verizon issue, is there something specific I should tell them to fix in order to get things working reliably?

Interestingly, at the moment, I have no pixellation (or errors) on either the low-100MHz or the mid-300MHz range at all. I imagine that'll swing one way or the other later in the day again.
Check the RS Corrected and uncorrected errors on all of your HD channels (or at least the one's you care about). Even though it's not prefect, your TiVo may be compensating for the bad signal enough that you're not seeing issues right now but if there are continual errors (corrected would likely be higher if you're not seeing anything) there's still a problem.

Attenuation seems to be the cure at the moment (although some folks here have been able to pummel their local VZ techs into actually fixing the "too hot" signal issue.) Go back to the first post on this thread and you'll find information about adding attenuation to your signal with some very inexpensive bits of hardware (oddly enough...called attenuators!).

FWIW others have had zero luck with diplexers and yet others are having zero problems after adding one...a lot of variables there and it sounds like the one you have may not be the key (might not be doing anything to help at all, or only some). If you scroll up you might try the one that subgenius37 is using. All diplexers are not built alike.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Last edited by richsadams : 11-23-2008 at 12:16 PM. Reason: corrected link
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:35 PM   #382
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Check the RS Corrected and uncorrected errors on all of your HD channels (or at least the one's you care about). Even though it's not prefect, your TiVo may be compensating for the bad signal enough that you're not seeing issues right now but if there are continual errors (corrected would likely be higher if you're not seeing anything) there's still a problem.
That's what I mean when I say that there are problems - the corrected and uncorrected values go through the roof while on the channels that have no problems, the errors (both corrected and uncorrected) remain at 0.

When things are fine, the SNR on the good channels is still about the same as on the "bad" ones - somewhere between 34 and 37dB, so I'm more than a bit skeptical regarding how attenuation is going to make things any better, especially as the problem goes away and comes back at various times of day on different frequency bands, while doing nothing to the connectivity.

Quote:
Attenuation seems to be the cure at the moment (although some folks here have been able to pummel their local VZ techs into actually fixing the "too hot" signal issue.) Go back to the first post on this thread and you'll find information about adding attenuation to your signal with some very inexpensive bits of hardware (oddly enough...called attenuators!).

FWIW others have had zero luck with diplexers and yet others are having zero problems after adding one...a lot of variables there and it sounds like the one you have may not be the key (might not be doing anything to help at all, or only some). If you scroll up you might try the one that subgenius37 is using. All diplexers are not built alike.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
The diplexer I've got was a 40-864MHz one that I thought had helped out the situation, as the problem channels were fine after I added it... but it seems more likely now that there's something going on in the signal I'm being fed that varies over the course of the day/night and the "improvement" I saw was really just that what Verizon was sending had changed in some fashion... and continues to do so.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:42 PM   #383
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... but it seems more likely now that there's something going on in the signal I'm being fed that varies over the course of the day/night and the "improvement" I saw was really just that what Verizon was sending had changed in some fashion... and continues to do so.
Yep, have to agree there. Also, don't confuse SNR with signal strength...although a low SNR can indicate a problem. SNR is signal to noise ratio or (in somewhat layman's terms) how "clean" a signal is, not necessarily how strong. Attenuation can reduce signal strength which seems to be the overall problem with VZ FIOS.

Keep us posted.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:29 PM   #384
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Yep, have to agree there. Also, don't confuse SNR with signal strength...although a low SNR can indicate a problem. SNR is signal to noise ratio or (in somewhat layman's terms) how "clean" a signal is, not necessarily how strong. Attenuation can reduce signal strength which seems to be the overall problem with VZ FIOS.

Keep us posted.
It seems like I'm having problems more like the ones V7Goose was having with particular frequencies - though mine aren't constantly bad according to the tivo diagnostics screen. And I don't have a VZ STB at my location to compare results.

Rather than bother with attenuators, I'll try to go his route and try to get VZ to fix their signal, which is clearly fluctuating from being perfect at some times of the day to causing problems across particular bands of frequencies at other times of the day.
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:55 PM   #385
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What upsets me is that Verizon's boxes are horrible, I've tried to get them to work reliably and they just don't. But yet they have to charge you $2.99/card even when you go out and buy equipment so that it's reliable. The cable cards should be part of the service. It's like Verizon giving you a $59.99 plan and then start charging you for the coaxle cable thats coming into the house.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Verizon has horrible equipment so you have to go out, by the Tivo receivers, pay the montly service fee for each receiver, and then pay Verizon for cable cards.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:42 PM   #386
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What upsets me is that Verizon's boxes are horrible, I've tried to get them to work reliably and they just don't. But yet they have to charge you $2.99/card even when you go out and buy equipment so that it's reliable. The cable cards should be part of the service. It's like Verizon giving you a $59.99 plan and then start charging you for the coaxle cable thats coming into the house.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Verizon has horrible equipment so you have to go out, by the Tivo receivers, pay the montly service fee for each receiver, and then pay Verizon for cable cards.
I agree - the Verizon boxes are really awful. They gave me one (that I don't use) so I hooked it up thinking maybe I could use it for the occasional PPV. Well the HDMI does not work with my projector - it is clearly an HDCP issue. I explained this to the tech and they had no clue what HDCP even was. But another tech said that they've had a lot of HDMI issues with LG, Samsung, Sharp displays.

What is more frustrating is that they keep telling me they don't have M-Cards. In fact they don't even know what they are. If it weren't for this forum I wouldn't have a leg to stand on but I can clearly see that some folks up here have M-Cards.

I did complain about paying 2x what I should have to for cable cards and escalated it. Eventually I got a billing supervisor to credit me $100 off for my troubles. But with the continuing picture problems I think I am going to have to try and force them to send me M-Cards.

As far as my picture issues - I tried another one of the diplexers I bought (same brand/type) and my local HD channels now work. Albeit, I am seeing quite a few RS corrected and uncorrected errors. I haven't had time to watch TV long enough to know if the RS errors manifest themselves into visible artifacts on the TV yet. Strangely, I lost 4 other channels but don't care since they are ones that I don't watch.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:38 PM   #387
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It seems like I'm having problems more like the ones V7Goose was having with particular frequencies - though mine aren't constantly bad according to the tivo diagnostics screen. And I don't have a VZ STB at my location to compare results.

Rather than bother with attenuators, I'll try to go his route and try to get VZ to fix their signal, which is clearly fluctuating from being perfect at some times of the day to causing problems across particular bands of frequencies at other times of the day.
Sounds like a plan. I wouldn't dismiss attenuation in the meantime (a set only costs a few bucks). The VZ tech here clearly knew (and volunteered before I asked) that some frequencies needed attenuation for TiVo. Most of the techs carry an inventory on their trucks.

Best of luck and let us know what VZ does and has to say!
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:09 AM   #388
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Just got back in town and checked some of the local HD channels. Channel 502 is on 507000KHz and channel 504 is at 513000KHz.
My pixelation problems returned recently to my Series 3 and I'm pretty frustrated.

Like Exdishguy, my pixelation problems are limited to the channels in the 500000KHz range, which for me are the regular network stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, etc.) All the other channels are 100% unaffected..

The strange part is when I attenuate, the pixelation problems are nearly eliminated, BUT ONLY ON TUNER #1. Tuner #2 has pixelation no matter how much attenuation, type of diplexer, etc I use. So I find myself hoping that when the Tivo is scheduled to tape a network show, it records on Tuner 1. This seems very ridiculous to me.

Does this mean that my Series 3 is defective (beyond the apparent inherrent limitation which requires attenuation to begin with)? It doesn't make sense to me that attentuation would alleviate problems in one tuner but not the other. I have tried swapping cable cards, and even got two new ones from Verizon, but the issue remains identical, and ongoing.

Thos.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:23 AM   #389
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I'm in MA as well. I have played extensively with attenuation, with mixed results. I'm at 20 right now and my pixelation problems have been virtually eliminated, to the point that I'm hesitant to put a diplexer that I just bought into the mix. But I don't believe I've found the solution, I've seen it come and go in the past, and if I had to bet money on it, I'd bet I'll be seeing bad pixelation on some channel soon and when it happens then I'll put the diplexer in there.

When I've seen pixelation it usually shows up on the major networks, but I've seen it on ScifiHD too, and several other HD channels.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:11 AM   #390
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My pixelation problems returned recently to my Series 3 and I'm pretty frustrated.

Like Exdishguy, my pixelation problems are limited to the channels in the 500000KHz range, which for me are the regular network stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, etc.) All the other channels are 100% unaffected..

The strange part is when I attenuate, the pixelation problems are nearly eliminated, BUT ONLY ON TUNER #1. Tuner #2 has pixelation no matter how much attenuation, type of diplexer, etc I use. So I find myself hoping that when the Tivo is scheduled to tape a network show, it records on Tuner 1. This seems very ridiculous to me.

Does this mean that my Series 3 is defective (beyond the apparent inherrent limitation which requires attenuation to begin with)? It doesn't make sense to me that attentuation would alleviate problems in one tuner but not the other. I have tried swapping cable cards, and even got two new ones from Verizon, but the issue remains identical, and ongoing.

Thos.
Well the diplexer isn't really working for me either. Even though I get my HD locals now I was watching COM last night (190 on 429000 MHz) and it was pixelating and the RS uncorrected errors were through the roof. Back to attenuating for now. Argghhh....

I'm calling Verizon again today. They'll blame the Tivo's like they always do though so I guess I'll write the FCC again and complain about their poor support for cable cards.
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