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Old 10-25-2007, 09:23 AM   #61
fred2
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Sometimes the squeaky complainer does get satisfaction. So TokeoShoe has the freedom to keep the heat (questions) on Tivo. Unless there is a good physical handicap that truly prevents other drives from working why "discriminate" and allow some to hook up and other to a forced propriety and size-limited solution?

As an example, Creative sold devices with the ability to record FM radio. Suddenly, in a firmware "update" they removed that feature, complaining riaa had mandated it. Lots of hue and cry over removing a feature. Creative would not budge. More hue and cry and they finally added it back. Not quite the same but with enough folks questioning the logic, it moved them to "reason." What is the logic. S3 users can call for support and REP says what drive? Oh, not supported. Still getting those calls. All tivo is doing is limiting choices and making some folks angry. As indicated just above, what will tivo do when a supported drive fails - still a separate warratny issue anyway. Nothing else.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:57 AM   #62
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To answer the original question, I'll estimate a 750 GB before Christmas (or shortly thereafter) and 1 TB next spring. Remember, for WD this is a question of maximizing profits and managing manufacturing capabilities. They will offer it when it make sense for them. I suspect that many, perhaps most, S3/HD users will not want to mess with this like us fanatics.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:51 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars Rocket
Easy: Multiple viewers. My wife and I don't always watch the same shows, and we have three kids that also watch different stuff. So we could have 5 TiVos with medium-sized drives on them, or 1 TiVo with a HUGE drive on it. Problem solved.
I can relate to multiple viewers - there are 5 of us as well all with different tastes. The problem is with only 1 DVR there is no way all recordings could be covered since many of them overlap in schedule. The solution for me is more distributed DVRs (I have 2 S3s and 3 ReplayTVs - the kids get the ReplayTVs and auto commercial skip these days).
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:57 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
I just flashed on something. Does anyone recall what the recording capacity of the very first production Series I TiVo was?
I think it was 14 hours (at basic).
Which must have seemed big in comparison to a VHS tape.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:14 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
I can relate to multiple viewers - there are 5 of us as well all with different tastes. The problem is with only 1 DVR there is no way all recordings could be covered since many of them overlap in schedule. The solution for me is more distributed DVRs (I have 2 S3s and 3 ReplayTVs - the kids get the ReplayTVs and auto commercial skip these days).
Another reason for lots of storage: HD. I mostly record HD-only. A 1TB drive added to my Tivo HD gave me ~160 hours of recording space for HD. That's about what you get with a Tivo HD doing SD-only.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:20 AM   #66
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Anyone received their's yet?

This is sorta off the original topic, but has anyone actually received their drive from Tivo.com yet? I ordered on Tuesday, and have yet to even receive a shipping e-mail. However, when I ordered my Series 3 I never received a shipping e-mail and my unit came the next day.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:31 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2
Sometimes the squeaky complainer does get satisfaction. So TokeoShoe has the freedom to keep the heat (questions) on Tivo.
I do believe you’re the first to come to the gentleman’s defense. New here?

Seriously, I couldn't agree more with your first point...almost every view has value in some way shape or form. Solid opinions have not only changed the direction of companies, but the world. However in our little TiVo universe Mr. Shoe doesn’t have “questions” he has one grievance (with which I generally agree for the record). The issue that I and others have is that he has posted the same complaint over and over and over in thread after thread after thread.

That sort of thing isn't helpful to anyone’s cause and can actually be quite counter productive. Perpetuating disputes by sticking to a claim or point of view long after it has been made, repeating it almost without end calls into question the credibility of that very POV based on the writer’s observed unnatural, obsessive behavior.

Good point-counter-point discussions are worthwhile and TiVo needs to hear them. A broken record is, well, broken.

Okay, ‘nuff said.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:35 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singletb
This is sorta off the original topic, but has anyone actually received their drive from Tivo.com yet? I ordered on Tuesday, and have yet to even receive a shipping e-mail. However, when I ordered my Series 3 I never received a shipping e-mail and my unit came the next day.
Check the status in your account under order history.

My status is still saying "order placed" under status and still gives me the option to cancel order so I'd say they are backlogged a week already.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:46 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
Check the status in your account under order history.

My status is still saying "order placed" under status and still gives me the option to cancel order so I'd say they are backlogged a week already.
Yeah, I have the same status, but my S3 came randomly too.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_S
I think it was 14 hours (at basic).
Which must have seemed big in comparison to a VHS tape.
You're correct. I still have one in unmolested condition that is in service today.

-MM

P.S. My sister uses her S3 in "Basic" all the time. They do exist.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:44 PM   #71
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The reason you need a much bigger hard drive on the Tivo HD is that you really are only getting 27-30 hours of HD on there.

That's like reverting back to a 30 hour tivo SD in terms of hours of programming.

Last night I had to either watch something or delete something, and it was late and I was forced to delete the 5 remaning "The War" shows in HD, and wait until they will ecord again in a few weeks.

Tripling my space will make it so I never have to make that choice again, will help a lot during vacations, etc..

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Old 10-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
Man up and deal with it or do us all a favor and take your TiVo back for a refund and take up some other pastime.
Yes, be a Tivo fanboy apologist or move on, no dissent or unwelcome opinions here. Hack as much as you are allowed to and then say you're sorry and tell Tivo you love them or you will be kicked off the island.
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:17 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ahaley
Yes, be a Tivo fanboy apologist or move on, no dissent or unwelcome opinions here. Hack as much as you are allowed to and then say you're sorry and tell Tivo you love them or you will be kicked off the island.
After umpteen posts saying the same exact thing on a dozen or more threads we were all getting tired of the OP's whining ...but then you'd know that had you spent any time here plowing through them all. Thanks for highlighting my post though.

With regard to my being a “TiVo fanboy”, if you had taken the time to read through any number of my contributions you’d also know that I’ve posted my share of TiVo complaints. However I’ve also done my best to offer help and support to those asking for it, not to mention thanks to many others that have leant me a hand along the way. That said, your opinion is duly noted.

Dissent in the form of constructive criticism, focusing on problems as well as helpful feedback has always been more than welcome IMO. Using the forum to point fingers, call others names and repeatedly whine and cry about things not going your way is generally unproductive...again, IMHO. YMMV.

Last edited by richsadams : 10-26-2007 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:08 PM   #74
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I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:27 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
After umpteen posts saying the same exact thing on a dozen or more threads we were all getting tired of the OP's whining ...but then you'd know that had you spent any time here plowing through them all. Thanks for highlighting my post though.

With regard to my being a “TiVo fanboy”, if you had taken the time to read through any number of my contributions you’d also know that I’ve posted my share of TiVo complaints. However I’ve also done my best to offer help and support to those asking for it, not to mention thanks to many others that have leant me a hand along the way. That said, your opinion is duly noted.

Dissent in the form of constructive criticism, focusing on problems as well as helpful feedback has always been more than welcome IMO. Using the forum to point fingers, call others names and repeatedly whine and cry about things not going your way is generally unproductive...again, IMHO. YMMV.
The problem I see is that many of the "complaints" are not being dealt with, even by other posters. That is probably spurring the continued pushing of the content.

Limiting the only "officially allowed and permitted" solution to 500 GB is horrid. I am now faced with the decision on whether to plunk >$400 down to give my 2 units the max/only allowed storage option now or to live with horrible storage (for HD) for a year or more.

Brad
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:30 PM   #76
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Huge Drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo.
I wouldn't call it fascination. 'Merely modifying a device so it handles my needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Keeping a bunch of stuff on there clutters things up (Tivo has very limited organizing capabilities)
It is indeed still limited, but with the introduction of folders and variable sort parameters, it's not too bad. It surely could be better. I wish TiVo would arrange to license or support TiVoWeb Plus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
and slows down the software doesn't it (can't imagine bringing up Now Playing List with 100s of shows)?
No. Sort lists on a database as simple as a TiVo's require trivially small amounts of computing power, and it's only employed when one changes the screen by initiating the sort or pressing the up or down keys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
If you build up a whole bunch of stuff to watch later then when will you ever get time to watch it?
Possibly never. Indeed, I don't watch most of the TiVo suggestions. That's not the point at all. The point of a DVR is time shifting. One can set artificial limits on the maximum time one may shift the program, but to what end? Why not eliminate the limit since technology allows it?

Indeed, to my point of view, why ever delete a program at all? Now of course I do delete any casually recorded items such as TV series, but if I record a movie, unless I don't like the movie I may never delete it. There are over 300 movies and documentaries on my TiVos right now, and I've watched some of them many, many times. Others are awaiting my particular mood. Others are awaiting company who may wish to see them.

When I have company over for theater night, it's not very politic if I can only pull up a list of 10 or 12 programs from which to select to watch. They're much more likely to find domething they like if the list is much larger.

Many of my brothers, sisters, and cousins live in other cities. Some only visit on holidays. I have a number of programs which have been recorded since their last visit in July, and we'll watch them when they come down for Thanksgiving. Without the large drives those would likely have been lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
For me there's stuff to watch on TV pretty much year round so there's never dead time for me where I can catch up on old stuff.
I've posted on this at length before, but the odds there is something which fits my mood at the time I sit down out of a list of 10 or 12 is much lower than if the list is 200 or 300 strong.

Of course, now that TTG and MRV are enabled, the larger drives are not nearly as necessary, but until a solution comes along which allows me to transfer every recordinng off to a server, not just some of them, the large hard dives are essential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Now with the ability for many to offload programs to PCs I see even less urgency for bigger drives on the Tivos.
True, but this ability is still quite limited. Only about half the movies I have recorded can be moved, and even with moving all the ones which can move, both my Series III TiVos with a total of 3T of storage will be full sometime early next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
If you want to save a whole series then isn't it more convenient to store on a PC to have the ability to easily organize things as you want?
This assumes the series will transfer. I am in the process of doing that very thing with Star Trek the Next Generation. I am not allowed to do so with most of the Planet Earth, Harry Potter, or Star Wars episodes. I expect I won't be able to if and when From the Earth to the Moon is shown in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Or just get the DVD set?
1. That assumes they are available on Blu-ray or HD-DVD. There's no point in purchasing standard DVDs. Thousands of SD videos will fit on the TiVos.

2. It costs money. A lot of money. Nonetheless, I will do so provided:

3. The HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle reachesa resolution or at least a cease-fire.

4. Someone produces a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD jukebox. I'm not going to "upgrade" from a 400 disc unit to a 1 disc unit.

All of that is to come in the future, however, so for the mean time large hard drives on the TiVo are the primary solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
I feel like I'm missing something here and left out of the party.
Well, if the party is movie night with your friends or relatives and you only have a choice of 10 or 15 HD programs from which to choose, then at the very least it's a limited party you are attending. If you're happy with that, then that 's just fine. At my parties it can be a challenge to find a program which suits everyone even with a choice of several hundred. I sometimes find it difficult to find something I want to watch myself if I'm in a difficult mood.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:38 PM   #77
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Huge Drives

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Originally Posted by visionary
I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.
Hmm. The "officially supported" setup sports 750G, or about 150 hours of recording. Do you really record more than 150 hours in a week? Even I don't record that much. I'm the first to rally for larger drives. As I've mentioned many times I have 3T on the TiVos and 2T on the server. I don't see how most users would need more than 750G to store a week or so of programs.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:55 PM   #78
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Not sure what size HDD my S3 came with, but it was just a tad too small to suit me. I've had every interation of TiVo since the series 1 and this was the first time I've felt the need for a little bit more space. It's the first time I've had shows roll off the bottom of the list before I'd had a chance to see them. Also, I noticed that if I had a BIG event getting ready to record, then TIVo would knock out a whole BLOCK of stuff I'd had earmarked to "watch later" and then there'd be a bunch of stuff I'd miss. So I added a 500 Gig drive and now I have waaaaay more space than I need.

If the S3 had come with about 250 more Gigs it would have been "enough" for me. Since I was going to the trouble of upgrading I went for 500. I can tell you, that the 500 addtional Gigs is far more than I need, but what the heck, it's nice to have the peace of mind that I can save a few things and not worry about the space it will eat up.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:58 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews777
The problem I see is that many of the "complaints" are not being dealt with, even by other posters. That is probably spurring the continued pushing of the content.

Limiting the only "officially allowed and permitted" solution to 500 GB is horrid. I am now faced with the decision on whether to plunk >$400 down to give my 2 units the max/only allowed storage option now or to live with horrible storage (for HD) for a year or more.

Brad
Couldn't agree more. And as I mentioned earlier, I actually sympathized and agreed with the OP's position...and yours of course, just not the endless restating of his grievance on every thread he could find, not to mention starting new ones.

It seems arbitrary and almost utter nonsense for TiVo to only offer a 500GB eSATA option. Perhaps they ended up testing larger drives and did in fact run into some sort of problem...but they really should communicate that fact if that's the case. Based on S3 user experience, we haven’t seen it but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if they’ll tell us why. It would even give some comfort if we knew TiVo was actually testing larger drive options, but there’s been nothing to indicate that they are.

I can see the logic and reasoning behind keeping the eSATA feature under their control. I can't imagine trying to train CSR's to deal with all of the options people might come up with. But only offering a "one size fits all" solution when only two more, a 750GB and a 1TB could work just as well makes no sense as far as I can see...and I think I'm in the majority here.

I’ve always thought that using a simplified DELL menu model would work and avoid the need for external expansion. Order your TiVo with drive A, B or C. There’s certainly an increased profit margin with the appropriate markup. They could even command more shelf space in B&M retail; other CE products follow that reasoning all of the time. But they have yet to ask me.
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:11 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
Couldn't agree more. And as I mentioned earlier, I actually sympathized and agreed with the OP's position...and yours of course, just not the endless restating of his grievance on every thread he could find, not to mention starting new ones.

It seems arbitrary and almost utter nonsense for TiVo to only offer a 500GB eSATA option. Perhaps they ended up testing larger drives and did in fact run into some sort of problem...but they really should communicate that fact if that's the case. Based on S3 user experience, we haven’t seen it but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if they’ll tell us why. It would even give some comfort if we knew TiVo was actually testing larger drive options, but there’s been nothing to indicate that they are.

I can see the logic and reasoning behind keeping the eSATA feature under their control. I can't imagine trying to train CSR's to deal with all of the options people might come up with. But only offering a "one size fits all" solution when only two more, a 750GB and a 1TB could work just as well makes no sense as far as I can see...and I think I'm in the majority here.

I’ve always thought that using a simplified DELL menu model would work and avoid the need for external expansion. Order your TiVo with drive A, B or C. There’s certainly an increased profit margin with the appropriate markup. They could even command more shelf space in B&M retail; other CE products follow that reasoning all of the time. But they have yet to ask me.
I would suggest that Tivo likely entered into a Tivo beneficial business relationship with WD. WD's largest A/V drive is currently 500G per their website. I would imagine that WD would offer larger 'Expanders' once larger A/V drives become available.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index...=7&language=en

Last edited by SCSIRAID : 10-26-2007 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:51 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID
I would suggest that Tivo likely entered into a Tivo beneficial business relationship with WD. WD's largest A/V drive is currently 500G per their website. I would imagine that WD would offer larger 'Expanders' once larger A/V drives become available.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index...=7&language=en
Yeah. I'm guessing they "made a deal" with WD and their "DVR Expander" line to be their sole supplier. I think that's the only reason it's limited to 500 Gigs right now. As soon as a larger drive is available form the manufacturer I'm sure those will be an option to purchase as well.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:01 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smak
Tripling my space will make it so I never have to make that choice again, will help a lot during vacations, etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary
I am amazed the obvious reason to need a bigger drive has not been said. I had a 32 hour S3 and do keep it watched, but we went on a vacation for over a week, and it ended up erasing shows. That is the reason you need longer storage, you may not be home. Don't forget sickness and hospital stays and stuff like that either, when you do get home it will be great to have those hours to view while recuperating. You might also have a job reason to travel some and any number of other good reasons to have to be not home.
Ahem......

-smak-
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