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Old 05-02-2009, 11:21 AM   #2851
greg_burns
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Okay, but I don't see how to go forward from there. It talks about using MFSCopy, but that requires a system where I can connect three SATA drives (the Windows OS, the original TiVo drive, and the new TiVo drive). I don't have one of those.
Don't have one of what? (Oh, don't have a system that you can hook up three drives! See below, using a bootable CD you can disconnect your Windows drive)

I would download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD and give "dd_rescue" a shot.

This will copy your suspect drive to the 500GB (but still only be 250GB) in size. I would try that and see if you can get the Tivo to boot off the 500GB.

If that works, then you can then make another backup from the 500GB using WinMFS (onto your Windows drive). Then restore that backup right back onto the 500GB and do MFSAdd to test everything is working. If you get that far, I would feel confident that you could do the same to the new 1TB when it comes.

Anyways, that is what I would give a shot while waiting for the new drive to arrive. Don't really have anything to lose.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:26 AM   #2852
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Okay, but I don't see how to go forward from there. It talks about using MFSCopy, but that requires a system where I can connect three SATA drives (the Windows OS, the original TiVo drive, and the new TiVo drive). I don't have one of those.
You didn't hear it from me, but I would suggest if you only have 2 internal SATA ports, go out to your local electronics retailer and pick up a 3.5" SATA to USB enclosure (most USB 2.0 enclosures these days are SATA and not IDE), install the 2nd Tivo drive in there and connect it to your computer via USB port, do what you need, then remove the drive from case and neatly put it back in the box and return it to the store. Those who live near a Fry's Electronics know what I mean when I say "Fry's Rental Program". This is not a very nice thing to do, but will work in a pinch.

Otherwise I believe there is a Linux boot image you can burn to CD, disconnect your computer's system drive and connect both Tivo drives to SATA, then boot from the CD-ROM. I have never tried this method however.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:29 AM   #2853
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Another method is to dd_rescue* copy using the old bumwine method. That is what I used way back in the day before WinMFS.

Those instructions have a lot of handholding that came in handy for me at the time. I would replace the "dd" command it uses with with the "dd_rescue". Should have same results as using a MFSLive Linux above, really just a matter of preference. Wouldn't need to do past step #9 since don't really care about expanding to use the full 500GB.

Just some thoughts of things to try. Depends on your comfort level.

*I assume dd_rescue is on the Knoppix boot CD that you download using bumwine method
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:43 PM   #2854
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Yes, I cannot use MFSCopy because I only have two SATA cables.

Anyway: My wife* got involved and we worked together to figure out how to do MFSLive. The 500 GB drive seemed to work well, so we went ahead with doing the copy onto the preformatted 1 TB drive and installed it into the TiVo.

The CableCARD pairings appear to be intact (as was expected).

However, the Closed Captions on at least the first TTCB recording (Numb3rs, on CBS, from last night), though, appear to be munged. However, I am going to withhold judgment on that score until I get both Primeval (Sci Fi) and Flashpoint (CBS) back over to the TiVo. For some reason, the Numb3rs .tivo file is either 2637M or 2157M (it was brought over twice, by T2SAMI), even though they were full hour-long broadcasts (I checked on the PC), while Flashpoint is 7671M and Primeval is 6496M, both of which seem more appropriate. If the Closed Captions are munged on both of those then (1) my wife is going to be very upset, and (2) I'm going to be very concerned about TTG/TTCB, this being the first time we've actually relied on the TTCB part of it.

UPDATED: Yup, Primeval's Closed Captions are fine.

I'm going to be first to defend anyone (who isn't a hardware tech) who comes into this thread saying that upgrading your own drive (other than just by popping in a preformatted drive) sounds really scary. I've already done one backup and two copies, and I still am spooked by the whole thing.

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Last edited by bicker : 05-02-2009 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:15 PM   #2855
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1 TB and Looking good

The patient is back on the shelf and the transplant went just fine. 1TB WD10EVCS is online. 157 hours HD

I was fortunate that my recent PC build had many SATA ports, overall took about 1.5 hours from start to finish, including hardware swap.

Thanks to everyone on the boards for input & guidance. And thanks for WinMFS!
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:52 PM   #2856
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Just bought a new 500 GB official dvr expander for my S3. I have tried to install several times but tivo does not recognize the expander. anyone else out there experienced something similar or solved the problem somehow or should i just go back to best buy and get another one.
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:58 PM   #2857
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Just bought a new 500 GB official dvr expander for my S3. I have tried to install several times but tivo does not recognize the expander. anyone else out there experienced something similar or solved the problem somehow or should i just go back to best buy and get another one.
Does this help?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...55#post7248255
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:30 AM   #2858
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Thanks, Greg. I think I was not following the directions properly yesterday because I got it to work this morning. On to my next problem with the Tivo I need to fix.
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:57 AM   #2859
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Okay, so few months ago I upgraded my actual S3 to a WD10EVCS and it went so well that I decided to work on the THD this weekend. The catch was that I had married a My DVR Expander to it via plug and play and thereby caused myself a lot of extra research since I really want to maintain my recordings and don't have room on my desktop to store them all. Also, I wanted to take the original 160GB and the 500GB expander and merge them onto a single drive and do away with the expander.

I read everything I could on MFSLive, realized I'd have to use the old tools as well as the partition consolidation steps and went through all of that yesterday only to realize that these instructions were meant for an actual Series 3 and not a THD.

So, now I have all my programs consolidated on the 1TB, but I have the phantom "Wrong external storage device" loop error and have no idea how to solve it since what appears to work on an S3 doesn't work for the THD.

Are there _any_ options out there for consolidating two drives to one on a THD? I'm a programmer by day so can probably handle some pretty complex steps, so if there is any way to accomplish this, I would love to know what I can try.

Thanks,

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Old 05-03-2009, 12:00 PM   #2860
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I read everything I could on MFSLive, realized I'd have to use the old tools as well as the partition consolidation steps and went through all of that yesterday only to realize that these instructions were meant for an actual Series 3 and not a THD.
Interesting, didn't know that was even possible on an original S3. Got any links to the thread over there?
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #2861
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Are there _any_ options out there for consolidating two drives to one on a THD? I'm a programmer by day so can probably handle some pretty complex steps, so if there is any way to accomplish this, I would love to know what I can try.
Unfortunately I think what you're trying to do has been attempted without success. If you haven't done so already I'd say your best bet is to throw yourself at the mercy of Spike (the author of winMFS, etc.) over at the MFSLive Forum and see what he might have to say.

It would be great to find out that it could be done so please come back and share if you're successful...or even if you're not...still good to know.
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:18 PM   #2862
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Yeah, the place that first caught my attention was in the quickstart that talked about a 2-1 copy: http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#s3dtod.

There was actually a statement that confused me that said:

Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. ... This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.

But from everywhere else, it says this isn't possible so I decided to rule this out first! The first thing I did was plug them both in SATA on the desktop and try that and I _was_ able to do the backup with no programs, but couldn't do the two to one copy of programs.

Then, digging through articles, found the following that talked about it:

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1179
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1145
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewto...3&p=5710#p5710

and the original source of a lot of this:
http://www.************.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=297557

And, for those that don't know UNIX (like myself), this was the biggest help to generate the exact command you need to use: http://www.mfslive.org/cgen.php

So, now I'm sitting here with my TiVo opened up, three hard drives and desperate to figure out a way to make this all work. I think I'll just put the original back in for now and do some more research and try again in a few weeks. *sigh*
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:39 PM   #2863
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Wow...that is some research and hard work...well done! Like Greg, I didn't know you could even get as far as you have!

Is it feasible, at least temporarily, to install one of the HDD's in your computer and transfer your recordings (if they're still available)? I know it's time consuming and not the ideal situation, but at least you'd be able to get back to square one. Once the new drive is installed in TiVo you could transfer them back. The downside is that you can't transfer copy-protected recordings, but otherwise might that be an option?
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Old 05-03-2009, 01:07 PM   #2864
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Hi Rich... thanks. I had remembered someone talking about the 2 to 1 awhile back, so it just took some digging. I didn't think it was going to take my entire Saturday to try and figure it out though!

I just put everything back to normal and everything is still on the drives, so at least I haven't lost anything yet.

By transfer, do you mean via TiVoDesktop, or is there some way to hook the drive directly to the computer and transfer things much faster? The only problem with either of these is I don't have sufficent space to transfer everything on the drive, but could probably save a lot of it.

What's amusing is that if this had happened on my Series 3 that I use to watch just general TV, I wouldn't have cared as much, but the THD is down in my theater and where I've stored all the movies that I've recorded over the years.

Guess this is a lesson learned about the "easy" path of using a DVR expander vs. just should've upgraded it right away.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:25 PM   #2865
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Too Loud

I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:43 PM   #2866
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By transfer, do you mean via TiVoDesktop, or is there some way to hook the drive directly to the computer and transfer things much faster? The only problem with either of these is I don't have sufficent space to transfer everything on the drive, but could probably save a lot of it.
I was thinking of TiVo Desktop or PyTiVo, etc. If you can connect your TiVo to your network via Ethernet it would cut down transfer times as compared to wireless, but still a bit of a pain.

You mentioned having three HDD's? I was thinking that you could install one of them (not the replacement of course) in your desktop to add more space and transfer the recordings. Or when you said "three" did you mean your OEM, your Expander and your replacement? If so, that's not an option. Might be worth picking up another drive though. You could always use it as a computer backup drive or start building that NAS you've been thinking about.

In any case, best of luck and let us know how things work out.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:49 PM   #2867
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I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?
If it is that loud, I think it may be defective. I couldn't hear my 1TB Expander over the TiVo.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:54 PM   #2868
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If it is that loud, I think it may be defective. I couldn't hear my 1TB Expander over the TiVo.
Agreed, if it's much louder than TiVo it sounds like something may be wrong with it.
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:27 PM   #2869
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I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?
Which one do you have? I have the 500GB, and I can't hear it from 8 feet away. I agree with other posters that there's probably something wrong with it.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:20 PM   #2870
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the S3 is pretty much silent to me so any noise sounds like a lot to me. I think I might just need to get used to it. Is it quieter on its side or should I stand it up?
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:37 PM   #2871
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the S3 is pretty much silent to me so any noise sounds like a lot to me. I think I might just need to get used to it. Is it quieter on its side or should I stand it up?
What kind of noise is it making? Clicking, humming...??

It shouldn't make any difference if it's placed vertically or horizontally. The only thing you might run into are the harmonics generated though the surface it's on. If it helps you can try isolating it by setting it on some sound absorbent material like a mouse pad.

Still...it shouldn't really be making any appreciable noise. If it is it's not likely to get better; could get worse and if it fails you'll lose all of the recordings made since it was installed.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:13 AM   #2872
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I'm going to be first to defend anyone (who isn't a hardware tech) who comes into this thread saying that upgrading your own drive (other than just by popping in a preformatted drive) sounds really scary. I've already done one backup and two copies, and I still am spooked by the whole thing.
I really don't know why it would be "scary". It's true one may not be guaranteed success first try by any stretch of the imagination, but considering what is at risk is a few hours of tinkering, possibly a few lost TV shows, and worst case having to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake, the risk is hardly daunting. With the huge volume of sometimes conflicting and often cryptic information on the matter, I can certainly understand one's being confused and uncertain how best to proceed, but to my mind even for a neophyte the cost of a mistake is too low to rise to the level of being "scary". Of course, it's always possible one might drop a hard drive, or forget to unplug the TiVo and drop a Torx driver on the live motherboard, sending up sparks and flames, but ordinary precautions can almost completely eliminate such problems.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:27 AM   #2873
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Yeah, the place that first caught my attention was in the quickstart that talked about a 2-1 copy: http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#s3dtod.

There was actually a statement that confused me that said:

Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. ... This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.

But from everywhere else, it says this isn't possible so I decided to rule this out first! The first thing I did was plug them both in SATA on the desktop and try that and I _was_ able to do the backup with no programs, but couldn't do the two to one copy of programs.
Whether this is possible (at this time) or not depends on how the TiVo was expanded. If the expansion was on the original S3 using the KickStart method, or on either a THD or S3 using MFS_Live or WinMFS, then copying from two married drives to one is possible with some limitations. If the external drive was married using TiVo's built-in automated expansion routine, then you are out of luck as far as 2 => 1 copying is concerned at this time.

Edit:
I believe you said you are a software developer. If you are intimately familiar with drive partitions at the byte level and are comfortable with manipulating them by hand (not using fdisk or similar utilities, but using dd), you may be able to handle a manual copy and expansion. You'll need to boot in to a recent Linux distro and obtain a copy of tivopart. Spike and Jamie can probably point you in the right direction as far as understanding what needs to be copied and how. I would not recommend attempting this unless you are very familiar with partitioning structures at the hardware level.

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Old 05-05-2009, 04:41 AM   #2874
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I really don't know why it would be "scary".
And I think that is really the source of the problems: Folks who know and understand this stuff very well failing to understand how the vast majority of folks don't.

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It's true one may not be guaranteed success first try by any stretch of the imagination
Well, be fair: "Error writing inode 1" isn't very descriptive. Beyond that, the specter of blowing out the chips on the motherboard due to static electricity is something that most normal people don't have much experience with. Whenever I've been in a context where electronic devices were being worked on, there were grounded work-benches, anti-static mats, and heel or wrist straps. I'm not comfortable with doing such work without such protections in place, and I suspect most folks who don't even have the exposure I have had would be even less aware of what could go wrong.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:32 AM   #2875
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I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?
Quote:
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What kind of noise is it making? Clicking, humming...??

It shouldn't make any difference if it's placed vertically or horizontally. The only thing you might run into are the harmonics generated though the surface it's on. If it helps you can try isolating it by setting it on some sound absorbent material like a mouse pad.

Still...it shouldn't really be making any appreciable noise. If it is it's not likely to get better; could get worse and if it fails you'll lose all of the recordings made since it was installed.
Gentlemen: FWIIW, I had the same problem with my original expander drive, which I kept for several weeks but eventually swapped out. It seemed to get slightly quieter after being run in for a few weeks, but still seemed way too noisy to me, so I had the manufacturer replace it. The replacement turned out to be a factory refurb unit, judging by a few minor nicks and dings on the case, but it is at least a good 50% quieter than the original. It is still not exactly silent and its noise covers completely the almost inaudible sound of the Tivo HD drive.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:01 AM   #2876
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Gentlemen: FWIIW, I had the same problem with my original expander drive, which I kept for several weeks but eventually swapped out. It seemed to get slightly quieter after being run in for a few weeks, but still seemed way too noisy to me, so I had the manufacturer replace it. The replacement turned out to be a factory refurb unit, judging by a few minor nicks and dings on the case, but it is at least a good 50% quieter than the original. It is still not exactly silent and its noise covers completely the almost inaudible sound of the Tivo HD drive.
I still maintain the chandler1818's expander is defective. Mine has been virtually silent from the day I first plugged it in.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:40 AM   #2877
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And I think that is really the source of the problems: Folks who know and understand this stuff very well failing to understand how the vast majority of folks don't.
I have to agree that performing any upgrade (TiVo, automobile, computer, networks, servers , etc.) is if not scary, somewhat unnerving at minimum. I end up enjoying the fruits of my labor afterward but the "time of trial" is always unsettling.

Ever since upgrading my S1 way back when I've always been nervous throughout the procedure, worried that I might miss a step, etc. I guess I don't worry about losing programs or any of that, I'm just afraid it won't work (possibly ever again) when I'm finished. My biggest fear was/is what to do if it doesn't work...how do I fix it, where do I turn (other than starting all over again)? Borking a working machine isn't something anyone wants to deal with.

Back in the Hinsdale upgrade days I missed all sorts of steps and spent many late night hours tinkering with code that made little sense at the time trying to get it right. I was always successful because I have a thing about not letting inanimate objects alone until they are doing what they're supposed to be doing. But I can certainly empathize with the tremors one feels during the journey from contemplation to success.

That said, Spike (MFSLive.org) has done an unbelievable job putting together a program (winMFS - dare I call it simple?) that just works if you follow the directions. As much as I detest PC's I keep one active if for nothing else...to complete my next TiVo upgrade. Kudos too to bkdtv for capturing almost everything anyone could want to know about upgrading their TiVo on the first post.

So when any of us say that it's "easy" to upgrade a TiVo the caveat should be, it's not "plug and pray" (except for the approved WD My DVR Expander), but if you're comfortable adding a new hard drive to a computer, it is in fact fairly easy. Even if you're a first-timer, the instructions are clear and it's a good Saturday afternoon learning experience with great rewards.

It's that moment that you plug TiVo back in, sit on the couch and wait for it to fire up properly...that's the worst part for me. It seems to take at least three times as long as normal (it really doesn't) and holding my breath for that long is probably not healthy. But when TiVo starts down that yellow slide...life is good again...even better.

Wow, that was cathartic! Okay, bring on the next models! I'm ready to upgrade!

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Old 05-05-2009, 10:49 AM   #2878
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Here Here

I agree with Rich - The procedures are so well documented anyone should be able to Happily Upgrade their TiVo
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:56 AM   #2879
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I agree with Rich
...That's dangerous, slippery slope territory my friend. Be afraid...be very afraid!
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:02 AM   #2880
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...That's dangerous, slippery slope territory my friend. Be afraid...be very afraid!
YOUR POST Did a great job articulating the state of the upgrade
info and commended all the folks who helped get us to this stage.

Who can disagree with that
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