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Old 04-17-2009, 01:15 AM   #2761
Strapped4Cash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Welcome to the forum and congrats on all of your upgrades! Wow! I'll second what bkdtv said.

Also, did you try adjusting the automatic acoustic management (AAM) of the offending drive? It probably won't end up being as quiet as one of the recommended WD DVR/GP drives, but it should improve things a great deal. It's likely set at 256 for fast seek times which is good for a PC, but not needed with TiVo. You can adjust it down to 128 to make it less noisy if not acceptably quiet.

You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to make the adjustment. You'll just need to pull the drive, connect it to your PC, run the program and pop it back in. It won't affect anything but the seek noise (which is what your bride is hearing).

Best of luck and let us know how things go!

Rich-

Thanks for the tip, I plan to try the Hitachi tool this weekend. I think what she/we are hearing is spinning noise, not seek noise.

Any options to adjust the acoustics other than seek time?

Any thoughts on going the laptop (2.5") drive direction for even better noise reduction? Has anyone tried it or had success? I would spend more on a smaller drive to reduce the noise further.

David
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:28 AM   #2762
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Originally Posted by fred2 View Post
I thought I would bring my FAP750 failure thread up to date. It will be a storage unit for anything but my Tivo..........
Probably the best use for it. Tough lesson though. Thanks for the update!
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:44 AM   #2763
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Originally Posted by Strapped4Cash View Post
Any thoughts on going the laptop (2.5") drive direction for even better noise reduction? Has anyone tried it or had success? I would spend more on a smaller drive to reduce the noise further.
Laptop (2.5") drives are no longer the best drives for noise reduction. That title is held by the Western Digital "Green" drives -- the same drives recommended in the first post.

At SilentPCReview, you can compare these measurements for the 2TB Western Digital "Green" drive with these measurements for the latest notebook drives.

If you still have doubts about this, you can compare the specification sheets at the Western Digital and Seagate web sites.

Western Digital's Ranks by Seek Noise
  1. WD "Green" CE drives (25dB)
  2. WD Scorpio "Blue" notebook drives (26dB)
  3. Skip a several entries
  4. WD Scorpio "Black" notebook drives (28dB)
  5. Skip a several entries
  6. WD Caviar "Blue" - WD6400AAKS (29dB)

Seagate's Ranks by Noise Profile (typical/max bels)
  1. Seagate Pipeline CE drives (1.9/2.0 for 500GB, 2.1/2.4 for 1TB)
  2. Seagate Momentus 7200.4 notebook drives (2.3/2.5)
  3. Seagate Momentus 5400.5 notebook drives (2.3/2.6)
  4. Seagate Momentus 5400.6 notebook drives (2.4/2.6)
  5. Seagate Momentus 5400.4 notebook drives (2.4/2.6)
In the SPR tests linked above, the Western Digital "Green" drive (25dB rated) bested both the 500GB and 1TB Seagate Pipeline CE drives (2.1/2.4 rated) in idle and seek noise.

Several years ago, notebook drives were the best choice for silent applications. But that is no longer the case, as should be obvious from the links above.

Last edited by bkdtv : 04-17-2009 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:01 PM   #2764
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Well, I was never able to successfully make a complete MFScopy with all my recordings. After trying for the second time, it had frozen exactly like it had before. After a few hours I left, leaving it running in the hopes that it would complete, but several hours later when I returned, nothing had changed.

So I decided to screw trying to transfer the recordings. There wasn't anything there that I really needed or couldn't download. I just did the restore of the MFS backup and plopped it back into the Tivo. Booted right up and haven't had any problems so far.

At first I thought that maybe the original copy had worked because all the shows I had were still in the now playing list. But of course, there was no video associated with them so I just had to clear them out.

Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:08 PM   #2765
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Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.
That is strange. winMFS author Spike might be able to figure it out over on his forum. The details might help someone following in your footsteps. But now that it's working...congratulations and enjoy!
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:10 PM   #2766
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Evilmonkee
I bet it would be better if you transfer all your shows to your computer (if you got some space). before you install new drive. I believe it would be less hassle just to copy Tivo system to new drive. You can always stream show back to your Tivo when you are ready to watch them. Hope this idea help.

Nelson
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Old 04-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #2767
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Well, I was never able to successfully make a complete MFScopy with all my recordings. After trying for the second time, it had frozen exactly like it had before. After a few hours I left, leaving it running in the hopes that it would complete, but several hours later when I returned, nothing had changed.

So I decided to screw trying to transfer the recordings. There wasn't anything there that I really needed or couldn't download. I just did the restore of the MFS backup and plopped it back into the Tivo. Booted right up and haven't had any problems so far.

At first I thought that maybe the original copy had worked because all the shows I had were still in the now playing list. But of course, there was no video associated with them so I just had to clear them out. Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.
the MFSCopy transfer of my 250gb S3 drive with ~34 hours of HD programs to my new 1.5Tb Seagate drive took a little over 7 hours. But that was with slower sata to USB connnectors. I knew it might take awhile and at first it gave a normal time but after a while it had some crazy long number showing but it kept transferring and the little rectangular solid progress marks would move another notch to the right every so often and i just let it continue and
it finally finished but took over 7 hours.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:15 PM   #2768
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Just want to say that using the information in this thread, I successfully purchased a Fantom Greendrive at 1TB from Macmall, and successfully got it working externally to my Series 3 with minimal effort.
(Finally bought an HDTV, unchecked all my non-HD channels for networks I have HD for, and suddenly was quite low on room).
Thanks for all the help from all.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:39 PM   #2769
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Just want to say that using the information in this thread, I successfully purchased a Fantom Greendrive at 1TB from Macmall, and successfully got it working externally to my Series 3 with minimal effort.
Congratulations! Welcome to the forum and welcome to the club!
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:52 PM   #2770
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[quote=bkdtv;7215036]
Prior to starting the process anew, you might also want to download and run Western Digital's Data LifeGuard utility to check the disk for errors.

Just for info: Data Lifeguard will not run under Vista
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:57 PM   #2771
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Just for info: Data Lifeguard will not run under Vista
Good to know. Those with Vista can use the bootable CD version.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:04 AM   #2772
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Ok... so I'm confused.....

I was gonna buy a TivoHD and upgrade the drive to a 1TB. It'd run me about $400, and I'd have essentially a Tivo HD XL. I'd save $200 but void my warranty, and I'm basically stuck at 1TB without a PROM upgrade. I could do the same thing with the 1TB expander, NOT void my warranty, and end up with a bit more storage space (for about $60 more)... and possibly take the external drive larger later when/if Tivo or WinMFS supports it.

So why should I upgrade internally now?? What I'd really prefer to do is put in a 2TB drive internally, but to do that I'd have to get an HD-XL and void my warranty. That costs me $400 (at least) on top of the plain HD with an external 1tb drive to get just under twice the space. (not worth it to me right now).

Thoughts?
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:28 AM   #2773
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So why should I upgrade internally now??
That's not a bad question. For me an internal upgrade would mean one less fail point. The eSATA drive basically creates a larger hard drive; striping recordings across both drives. If it fails all of your recordings since the drive was connected are gone. Of course an internal drive can fail and you can end up with the same result. A single (new) drive reduces those odds to some extent.

On the other hand, if you upgrade your internal drive and put the original on the shelf you'll always have a perfect backup. If the new internal drive fails you can simply pop the original back in and be up and running or use it to image a new drive and be back in business almost immediately.

If it's the warranty you're worried about, although TiVo is aware of upgrades (log files), they rarely go that far to deny a warranty request (although IIRC there is at least one forum member that was denied a replacement due to an upgrade). So if something does go wrong you can always put the original drive back in and unless you mention the upgrade to TiVo you shouldn't have any problems getting a replacement.

Bottom line is that it's rare for TiVo failures to be caused by anything but hard drive failure so odds are you won't ever have to worry about the warranty.

The reason most of us have upgraded is to avoid losing recordings because there wasn't enough space. TiVo HD's 160GB drives are very small by anyone's standards. If you're recording HD programming you'll quickly want more space. An eSATA drive is one option, particularly since they are offering a 1TB model now.

We record almost everything in HD and have been very happy with 1TB. The few recordings I want to archive go onto my Mac for safe keeping. Others here are using their TiVo's to archive recordings and 2TB's would do that nicely of course. It really depends on what you want to do I guess.
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Old 04-19-2009, 05:53 AM   #2774
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For me, the main reason to upgrade is that I find the eSATA connection to be flaky. I get corrupted recordings regularly (five in the last two weeks) often unwatchable from beginning to end.

Two questions though:

1) Is there any impact on CableCARD pairing from replacing the internal HD? Okay, looks like the answer is yes. Crap. I didn't realize that. My replacement drive is on its way to me already, so I'm not going to back out (and I've already decided long ago not to bother trying to do the copy my current drive thing).

2) What am I missing regarding the warranty concern? The warranty is only 90 days, right? What does it really mean that they won't provide technical support?

Last edited by bicker : 04-19-2009 at 05:59 AM.
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:13 AM   #2775
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1) Is there any impact on CableCARD pairing from replacing the internal HD? Okay, looks like the answer is yes. Crap. I didn't realize that. My replacement drive is on its way to me already, so I'm not going to back out (and I've already decided long ago not to bother trying to do the copy my current drive thing).
Note this -- losing your CableCard pairing information -- only occurs if you purchase a pre-prepared drive upgrade. That's the primary reason to do the upgrade yourself, aside from the cost savings. Some third-party vendors also use Hitachi drives, which make a bit more noise than the Western Digital "Green" drives.

Quote:
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2) What am I missing regarding the warranty concern? The warranty is only 90 days, right? What does it really mean that they won't provide technical support?
The warranty is one-year on parts and 90-days on labor. This means that TiVo will replace the box after 90 days for a maximum charge of $50. Replacements are $150 after the one-year warranty expires.

If you buy a lifetime subscription, TiVo will always move that subscription over to a replacement of the same model, so long as you order it as a replacement from TiVo. Upgrading the drive does not change this.

I've only read one report [ever] of TiVo refusing to provide phone support to someone who upgraded their internal drive.

Last edited by bkdtv : 04-19-2009 at 07:27 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:21 AM   #2776
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Note this -- losing your CableCard pairing information -- only occurs if you purchase a pre-prepared drive upgrade.
Yes, that's indeed what I've done. I purchased a pre-prepared drive upgrade from the company that used to be this site's sponsor, not the one that is the sponsor now.

So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?

Quote:
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The warantee is one-year on parts and 90-days on labor. This means that TiVo will replace the box after 90 days for a maximum charge of $50. Replacements are $150 after the one-year warranty expires.
My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?

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If you buy a lifetime subscription, TiVo will always move that subscription over to a replacement of the same model, so long as you order it as a replacement from TiVo. Upgrading the drive does not change this.
I don't have lifetime service on the S3.

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I've only read one report [ever] of TiVo refusing to provide phone support to someone who upgraded their internal drive.
Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:31 AM   #2777
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So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?
With Comcast, you can usually reactivate over the phone, if you have the patience to provide the necessary information.

Write down the serial number on each card and the information from the CableCard pairing screen for each card ...and then call Comcast and read them that information. You can tell them that you replaced your TiVo and need them to repair your CableCards.

Sometimes you will get a Comcast rep who doesn't know what they are doing and/or can't direct your call to someone that does. In that case, you might schedule a service call.

Quote:
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My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?
No. I was really saying that you lose the ability to pay $0-$50 for a replacement within the first year. After the warranty period expires, refurbished replacements are always $150.

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Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?
I do not.
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:38 AM   #2778
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Yes, that's indeed what I've done. I purchased a pre-prepared drive upgrade from the company that used to be this site's sponsor, not the one that is the sponsor now.

So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?

My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?

I don't have lifetime service on the S3.

Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?
I'll jump in with my two-cents...bkdtv will add his wisdom if needed as well. Ahhh...I see he already has!

With regard to cable cards, give your provider a call and ask them if they will re-pair or "re-hit" your cards with a phone call from you (most will - Comcast will in our area). If that's the case you can simply install your new drive, run Guided Setup, call the cable company and ask them to re-pair your cable cards, re-run Guided Setup once more and everything should be fine. If they won't re-pair your cards with a telephone request from you, you'll need to schedule a truck roll ($14.95 for Comcast in our area), install the drive, run Guided Setup before they get there and then let them do an install (no different than when you first bought and installed your TiVo).

If you need to exchange your TiVo all you need to do is put the original drive back in and send it to TiVo.

The OP didn't elaborate on the one incident that bkdtv and I know of when TiVo refused service on his upgraded box. He might chime in if he reads this.

You can take comfort in knowing that what you're planning on doing is very common, easy to do and a good choice. Once you've installed the new drive and gotten your cable cards sorted out you'll basically have a new TiVo.
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:52 AM   #2779
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Okay, my plan is that if the CSR doesn't understand the idea of me reading the pairing information to the tech, then I can call back and try a different CSR.

Seriously, does anyone know the right words to use with Comcast, with respect (specifically) to the title of the tech who I need to be put in contact with in order to do the repairing. I seem to remember something with the word "advanced" in it, but other than that, I'm coming up blank.

So, I figure I'll say, "Hello, the CableCARDs you installed for me last year have become unpaired, and I need to re-pair them. Could you please connect me with the XXXXX tech so that we can fix this?" Sound good?
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:01 AM   #2780
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They say the more sites you post o nthe mroe likely your to get the answer your aftr ;-)

Anyway, the following is a copy of a post of mine I made over at the winmfs site.

-------

My S2 DT is software version 9.?? and my S3 (OLED one if it matters) is 11.??, well with that said one begs the question of what's the maximum size HDD that I can use to upgrade both units ? I ask because I've been reading around both here (the winmfs site) and the internet and theres alot of technical stuff goin about that I dont quite get like how even if you use a large HDD to upgrade you'll only be able to use so much of it. So ya, I'm under the general concensus that it's safe to upgrade both my S2 & S3 units with 1 TB drive and be able to use all of that space but what can I use thats larger than 1 TB if anything in both units and be able to use all space available ?

Also, if someone could tlak to me like I'm a 5yr old and explain what the deal is with disk size limitation on certain units with certain software versions I'd be much appreciated ;-)
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:02 AM   #2781
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So, I figure I'll say, "Hello, the CableCARDs you installed for me last year have become unpaired, and I need to re-pair them. Could you please connect me with the XXXXX tech so that we can fix this?" Sound good?
I wouldn't worry about titles...that should work. You may get shuffled about a bit, but eventually you'll get connected to someone that will be able to take care of things.

Keep us posted!
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:08 AM   #2782
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They say the more sites you post o nthe mroe likely your to get the answer your aftr ;-)

Anyway, the following is a copy of a post of mine I made over at the winmfs site.

-------

My S2 DT is software version 9.?? and my S3 (OLED one if it matters) is 11.??, well with that said one begs the question of what's the maximum size HDD that I can use to upgrade both units ? I ask because I've been reading around both here (the winmfs site) and the internet and theres alot of technical stuff goin about that I dont quite get like how even if you use a large HDD to upgrade you'll only be able to use so much of it. So ya, I'm under the general concensus that it's safe to upgrade both my S2 & S3 units with 1 TB drive and be able to use all of that space but what can I use thats larger than 1 TB if anything in both units and be able to use all space available ?

Also, if someone could tlak to me like I'm a 5yr old and explain what the deal is with disk size limitation on certain units with certain software versions I'd be much appreciated ;-)
With regard to your Series3, have a read of the first post on this sticky thread and you'll know all you need to know about upgrades.

With respect to max HDD size, for the S3 it's 2.2TB which would include a 1TB internal and 1TB+ external. It's been so long since I upgraded a Series2 I cannot remember the max on those. Maybe someone here remembers, or if you posted on the regular upgrade thread someone there will know for sure.

BTW, spell check is your friend. They also say that people that transpose are borderline brilliant. I couldn't agree mroe!

Happy upgrading!
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:38 AM   #2783
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Hi Andy,

If you don't want to use an external at all then this part of the faq is helpful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
[*] What is the largest drive I can buy?

Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for clarifying this subject.

With latest version of WinMFS, the maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) plus the capacity of the original drive. Older tools cannot support drives larger than 1.1 TB.

Code:
              Model Number    Maximum Usable Drive Size*
Tivo HD       TCD652160       1.26 TB (1260 GB)
Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.10 TB (2100 GB)
TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      1.35 TB (1350 GB)

* Drives with capacities larger than 1.1 TB are only supported when the latest version
  of WinMFS is used.  If you are using tools or a method other than those described below,
  then your drive must be 1.1 TB or smaller.
If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD.
And accordingly only 1.35TB would be usable on the TiVo Series3 using a 2.0 TB internal drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
With respect to max HDD size, for the S3 it's 2.2TB which would include a 1TB internal and 1TB+ external.
So, if he then marries an external 1TB to an internal 2TB what happens? Same rules apply and still only end up with the max allowed 2.2TB total, right?


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Old 04-19-2009, 09:50 AM   #2784
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So, if he then marries an external 1TB to an internal 2TB what happens? Same rules apply and still only end up with the max allowed 2.2TB total, right?
Right. Any attempt to marry more than 2.2TB [without a hacked PROM] will result in a non-functional TiVo. The TiVo would constantly reboot.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:30 PM   #2785
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Hey Greg, thx for the reply.

Well, if I ever did need anything over 1.35TB I think I'd need to shoot myself lol, thats just to many SD movies to save lol. But ya that pretty much answers my question about my S3. So I guess I'll buy a 1.5 and set it up so I can use the max 1.35 on an internal.

Now I just need to find out the max size for my S2 ;-)

Edit: What does MFS have to do with the max size allowed, I thought that was governed by the TiVo software or something.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #2786
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...We record almost everything in HD and have been very happy with 1TB. The few recordings I want to archive go onto my Mac for safe keeping. Others here are using their TiVo's to archive recordings and 2TB's would do that nicely of course. It really depends on what you want to do I guess.
You didn't mention the SNAFU of the Copy flag. I'd be happy to take everything I wanted to archive off to my PC/Mac/NAS, on which I can ever expand disk space as needed.

With all premium content flagged I see literally a hundred programs I can't copy on from my S3, which has 1.25TB as stands.
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Old 04-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #2787
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Now I just need to find out the max size for my S2 ;-)
Remember that an S2 uses an IDE drive. So without an adapter to Sata you'll be limited to the largest IDE drive you can buy.

Quote:
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Edit: What does MFS have to do with the max size allowed, I thought that was governed by the TiVo software or something.
Don't really know myself, but WinMFS must have special code it in to take into account the larger partition sizes that the older tools don't.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:59 AM   #2788
richsadams
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You didn't mention the SNAFU of the Copy flag.
That's a good point. Our HBO and Showtime content are copy protected so that does cut down on the things we can transfer to the computer. For the most part we don't keep a lot of programs though. We're not big on watching something more than once and the things we do want to keep we usually end up buying the DVD. I've no idea if we're "typical" or not but so far 1TB has been adequate for us.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:02 AM   #2789
Yuterald
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
That's a good point. Our HBO and Showtime content are copy protected so that does cut down on the things we can transfer to the computer. For the most part we don't keep a lot of programs though. We're not big on watching something more than once and the things we do want to keep we usually end up buying the DVD. I've no idea if we're "typical" or not but so far 1TB has been adequate for us.
I transfer stuff from HBO, Showtime, etc all the time from my TiVo to my PC (and back). The only items that are 'protected' are the podcasts downloaded.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:26 AM   #2790
richsadams
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I transfer stuff from HBO, Showtime, etc all the time from my TiVo to my PC (and back). The only items that are 'protected' are the podcasts downloaded.
I guess it all depends on the provider and location. We're switching to FIOS on Monday and IIRC they don't have copy protection. Hope that's the case!
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