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Old 01-25-2009, 11:58 AM   #2431
slyone
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I too have a question...can I simply start over the complete process of a truncated B/U to get those original recordings? would my wd10-evcs (which is currently working fine) simply be "erased"-formatted again? Hopefully yes so I could give this another shot...TIA!
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:19 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by slyone View Post
I too have a question...can I simply start over the complete process of a truncated B/U to get those original recordings? would my wd10-evcs (which is currently working fine) simply be "erased"-formatted again? Hopefully yes so I could give this another shot...TIA!
A truncated backup does not include your recordings. If you restore a truncated backup, you'll just have the TiVo software and all your original settings, but not your recordings.

The first post has two sets of instructions:
  1. TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only

  2. TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
It sounds like you followed #1, rather than #2. The latter does not involve the restore of a truncated backup. If you want to restore your recordings, you'd have to start over, following the instructions in #2 using the original TiVo drive.

Last edited by bkdtv : 01-25-2009 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:26 PM   #2433
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Originally Posted by eddieb187 View Post
I need to get my Tivo HD replaced.
Thing is, I used WinMFS to upgrade the drive to 1TB.
Can I just put the 1TB drive in my new Tivo HD?
Or should I do the upgrade from scratch?
If so do I have to "Delete Format", or is that done automatically?
Also, is it better to upgrade your Tivo HD right out of the box.
Or should I activate it and then upgrade the drive?
Thanks
You can move the new drive into a different TiVo, but I believe you'll need to run "Clear and Delete," which will delete your existing recordings. Running "Clear and Delete" will also require that you reactivate your CableCard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
If I add the Approved external drive to my TivoHD (the 500GB WD My DVR Expander) ....

1) does 10% of THAT drive also get allocated to Tivo-related stuff?
I assume you are referring to the space reserved for video advertisements. That's only on the internal drive when you don't use MfsSuperSize. Clarified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
2) If the [My DVR Expander] drive dies out of warranty, can I order an exact replacement raw drive (or maybe by then a bigger one) and replace it inside the case? (is the case openable?)
In theory, yes. As a practical matter, I think the answer is no. I, I don't think the make and model with same firmware is available for purchase by end-users. So I think you'd have to replace the drive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
3) any reason to believe these WD drives are any less reliable than the others that people are using for internal upgrades?
Using two drives gives you two points of failure. If either your internal or external drive goes bad, you lose all your recordings, since recordings are split across both drives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
4) I'm a light user, so 660GB is essentially infinity for me. What advantage to the internal 1TB drive over the 500GB external? I see they're close to the same price...
(isn't there an advantage that if the external drive dies your Tivo still works?)
The 500GB external preserves your warranty and requires no real effort beyond connecting the drive and rebooting the TiVo.

A 1TB internal drive upgrade involves removing the original drive and connecting it to your computer.

Last edited by bkdtv : 01-25-2009 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:31 PM   #2434
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Thanks, but (8-})
1) anyone know definitive answer on 10% of external drive?
3) I think it it as a bit of redundancy, taking down the ext. drive doesn't take down the Tivo, I think? (you may lose some programs but not use of the unit)
5) not afraid of doing the upgrade myself, but figure there's no harm in keeping in good standing with TiVo for about the same price.

thanks for the comments
i actually subsequently posted these separately to get a bit more exposure.
thanks!
/j
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:40 PM   #2435
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Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
Hi folks - I'm new to this and although I read the first couple of pages I don't have the brain capacity to read 81 pages - a couple of dumb qns?

If I add the Approved external drive to my TivoHD (the 500GB WD My DVR Expander) ....

1) does 10% of THAT drive also get allocated to Tivo-related stuff?

2) If the drive dies out of warranty, can I order an exact replacement raw drive (or maybe by then a bigger one) and replace it inside the case? (is the case openable?)

3) any reason to believe these WD drives are any less reliable than the others that people are using for internal upgrades?

4) I'm a light user, so 660GB is essentially infinity for me. What advantage to the internal 1TB drive over the 500GB external? I see they're close to the same price...
(isn't there an advantage that if the external drive dies your Tivo still works?)

THANKS!
/j
Hi Jeff. First off...what a wimp...can't read all 81 pages? Sheesh! Kidding.

Here's my take on your questions...

1. Not sure what 10% you're speaking of. When you add an eSATA drive TiVo simply sees both the internal and external as one drive. Future recordings are striped across both drives if that helps. If you're referring to "Supersizing" during the internal hard drive upgrade process, that only refers to getting a little more recording space out of the internal drive. AFAIK it does not affect an eSATA drive (which would need to be married to the internal drive during the upgrade process).

2. I suppose you could try replacing a failed My DVR Expander hard drive by opening the case (and yes, the case can be opened but it voids the warranty). IMO it wouldn't be worth it though. By then they will be even cheaper (started at $209 and about $110 or so now). Might even be a larger one by then. FWIW WD will pro-rate drives after their full replacement warranty expires.

3. The WD My DVR Expanders had some real issues early on but mostly with the supplied eSATA cables (which seems to have been resolved now). There are posts of failed drives now and then but it doesn't seem like any more than one would expect so no reason to think they are better or worse than any others.

4. The recommendation for an internal upgrade is to put the original on the shelf and if the new drive dies you can simply use the original to image a new drive or just pop it back in TiVo and be up and running again in a few minutes. So one advantage of upgrading internally is that there's one less fail point. If either drive dies your recordings are most likely lost anyway. If the eSATA drive does die, you are correct, TiVo can recover and continue to work without it. Another thing to consider is TiVo's warranty. But again, if you keep the original drive you can put it back in and return the box...just don't mention that you opened it. TiVo is aware of drive changes because capacities are logged all of the time, but AFAIK, no one has been denied a replacement if the original drive is in there when it's returned.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:06 PM   #2436
jeffw_00
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1) thanks - that's what i was referring to - was wondering if Tivo took 10% of the external drive.
2) my question referred to post warranty, but I think you answered - thanks
3) thx
4) thx - but some people say that once TiVo knows you did an upgrade they will no longer help you.
5) something I've always wondered - can you really take the original drive off the shelf after, say, 3-4 years (and countless SW upgrades)? i mean - won't Tivo tell you "too old to upgrade", or some such?

Seems like no big advantage to internal or external. Although, since my TiVo is brandy new, I can go external -today- without voiding warranty (or any possible 'hidden' warranties later on....)
j

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Old 01-25-2009, 02:12 PM   #2437
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When I expanded a Tivo HD the other day I was very fullfilled and satisisfied with my results. I replaced the internal drive and added an external drive. The result was over 300 hours of recording capacity. I started to think to check the capacity of the previously upgraded units. Sure enough one of my previously expanded units has a slightly smaller capacity and they are the exact same units expanded with the exact same hard drives. I have been using these units for over six months now and they are loaded with recordings. I wonder if I can fix the problem and how do I fix it? My guess is the supersizing did not take.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:14 PM   #2438
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Originally Posted by Rocka2 View Post
When I expanded a Tivo HD the other day I was very fullfilled and satisisfied with my results. I replaced the internal drive and added an external drive. The result was over 300 hours of recording capacity. I started to think to check the capacity of the previously upgraded units. Sure enough one of my previously expanded units has a slightly smaller capacity and they are the exact same units expanded with the exact same hard drives. I have been using these units for over six months now and they are loaded with recordings. I wonder if I can fix the problem and how do I fix it? My guess is the supersizing did not take.
You can pull the drive and apply supersize at any time without affecting recordings.

Jason
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:17 PM   #2439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
A truncated backup does not include your recordings. If you restore a truncated backup, you'll just have the TiVo software and all your original settings, but not your recordings.
I thought "truncated" was with recordings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
The first post has two sets of instructions:
  1. TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only

  2. TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
It sounds like you followed #1, rather than #2. The latter does not involve the restore of a truncated backup.
I did follow #2..in fact, I even printed them off to work directly off the paper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
If you want to restore your recordings, you'd have to start over, following the instructions in #2 using the original TiVo drive.
I guess I'll try that again.
So when I do this it will automatically reformat the new drive? Thanks
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:25 PM   #2440
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I have a new HD-TiVo - if I buy the external drive. can I later buy a bigger INTERNAL drive? Can the sum of the two exceed a terabyte?
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #2441
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I thought "truncated" was with recordings...
You should double-check the instructions you printed out. In the first post you made to this thread a few days ago, it sounded like you followed half the instructions from Preserve Settings Only and half the instructions from Preserves Settings and Recordings.

There is no posted set of instructions that involves (a) connecting two drives at the same time and (b) a truncated backup and restore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
I have a new HD-TiVo - if I buy the external drive. can I later buy a bigger INTERNAL drive? Can the sum of the two exceed a terabyte?
The FAQ in the first post answers most of these questions.

The "plug and play" external drive expansion on a TiVo will not work with an upgraded internal drive. To add an external drive to an upgraded TiVo, you would need to "marry" the two with WinMFS on your computer.

You can have internal and external drives up to ~1.1TB each, for ~2.2TB total.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:40 PM   #2442
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I did try to get this from the FAQ - they didn't address upgrading INTERNAL -after- adding external (but I suppose you can always
1) remove external (from unmodified)
2) upgrade internal & add external (which requires winMFS - I get it 8-})

Thanks on the disk limitation - apologize if that's in the FAQ, I missed it
/j
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:46 PM   #2443
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Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
I did try to get this from the FAQ - they didn't address upgrading INTERNAL -after- adding external (but I suppose you can always
1) remove external (from unmodified)
2) upgrade internal & add external
You can do that, just be aware that #2 will require you to connect both drives to your computer to "marry" them.

You may or may not be able to preserve the recordings with such an upgrade. I can't recall whether the latest version of WinMFS can copy an existing internal + external setup to a single internal drive. If someone else knows, please post.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:50 PM   #2444
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yup - got it, thanks. preserving recordings not crucial
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:17 PM   #2445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
There is no posted set of instructions that involves (a) connecting two drives at the same time and (b) a truncated backup and restore.
I guess I got it here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Yes, if you're going to copy recordings as well as the image you would need both the new and OEM drive connected. Although I believe you can do a truncated backup of the original drive's content to your computer and then restore it to the new drive. I've never done that but others here have and can chime in. However if you have 20GB of recordings and not too much space on your computer's hard drive you might have to make some executive decisions.

According to the specs your Dell 530 Desktop has 4 SATA ports. You should be able to connect both along with your Windows hard drive at the same time; definitely the way to go. (You might have to temporarily disconnect an optical drive, etc.)

It sounds kind of complicated going in, but if you follow each step on the first post or the instructions for wimMFS at MFSLive.org it'll go a lot smoother and easier than you imagine.

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Old 01-25-2009, 03:22 PM   #2446
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Rich mentioned a truncated backup as an alternative method to backup the software, not another way to backup your recordings.

As long as you stick to the instructions in the first post, you'll be fine and avoid yourself unnecessary frustration.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:35 PM   #2447
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bkdtv, I just found where both drives are connected under instructions #14-9

Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:38 PM   #2448
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bkdtv, I just found where both drives are connected under instructions #14-9

Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
That's correct. Those are the instructions you need to follow to backup your recordings. They tell you to use Mfscopy, not a restore from a truncated backup.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:54 PM   #2449
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I've added (A) and (B) to separate the internal upgrade instructions in Section V, FAQ 14. Hopefully, that will help to prevent others from accidentally mixing up the instructions from one with the other.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:21 PM   #2450
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Thanks so much Rich and bkdtv.
I guess I'll just do an upgrade from scratch.
Looks like the safest way.

bkdtv,
Should I upgrade the drive in the new Tivo HD.
Or activate, upgrade the software, and then upgrade the drive?
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:43 PM   #2451
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Should I upgrade the drive in the new Tivo HD.
Or activate, upgrade the software, and then upgrade the drive?
The order doesn't matter.

If you plan to get digital cable, I do think it's a good idea to activate your CableCards before you do an upgrade.

If you backup and replace your drive before the CableCard installation, then you'll only have the CableCard activation (pairing) information on the new drive; it won't be on the original TiVo drive or in the backup file on your computer. By activating your CableCards before the upgrade, the CableCard activation (pairing) information is stored on the original drive, as well as your saved backup file; that way, should you ever replace your new drive, your CableCards still function without the need for a service call to reactivate them.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:52 PM   #2452
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You can pull the drive and apply supersize at any time without affecting recordings.

Jason
Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:38 AM   #2453
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
Rich mentioned a truncated backup as an alternative method to backup the software, not another way to backup your recordings.
Yes, but I can see how my response would have been confusing...sorry 'bout that.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:45 AM   #2454
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5) something I've always wondered - can you really take the original drive off the shelf after, say, 3-4 years (and countless SW upgrades)?
Yes. Some folks here pop the original drive back in now and then to keep their software updated, but that's not necessary.

FWIW, some brand new TiVo's sit in warehouses for over a year or more (as evidenced by the version of the software they're running when they're fired up). Once they are connected to the TiVo service they automatically upgrade to the latest version. It's possible that three or four upgrades have occurred since the box was built so it's not a problem.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:00 AM   #2455
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well, I got it all now..redid with non-supersize. besides not knowing truncated, I also found where I tripped up originally. On F&Q it states;

# In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and set the original TiVo drive as Source Drive A and the new internal drive replacement as Destination Drive A.

# Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.

should read like this;
# In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and set the original TiVo drive as Drive A (Source).

# Select Tools -> Mfscopy and select the new internal drive replacement as Destination Drive A. to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:54 AM   #2456
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Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
yup - got it, thanks. preserving recordings not crucial
Since I'm a bit farther down the time line, let me encourage you to upgrade the internal before adding the MyDvd external. I've got two tivos, one with an stock internal & an home made external, the other tivo has a upgraded internal.

I am currently looking at upgrading my internal on the tivo with the external drive. I stand to lose all of my multiple seasons of shows which can not be transferred off my tivo due to TW's draconian CCI flag plolicy.

Another issue might be the added cost of MyDvd expander vs. building your own much larger external unit. The cost per GB is lower for a home built unit the for the MyDvd unit.

The last reason might be, since you're gonna have to crack the box to marry a homebuilt expander unit, you might as well upgrade the internal.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #2457
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Thanks alyssa but
1) I don't store any programming permanently on my TiVo,
2) no plans to crack the box (except, maybe, for a backup) until after the warranties Xpire

Everyone has their priorities. I respect yours 8-}
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:57 AM   #2458
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Yes. Some folks here pop the original drive back in now and then to keep their software updated, but that's not necessary.
ok thanks
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:43 PM   #2459
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This morning, I added a "Summary of Expansion Options" atop the first post. I also updated the FAQ entries on the use of larger drives.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:34 PM   #2460
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very clearly written - thanks.
a nit - external drive has come down to $120 (newegg)
qn - are the "hours of HD" minimum or maximum (someone somewhere mentioned a 1.2-1.5x multiplier for max range?)

thanks!
/j
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