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Old 06-19-2008, 05:06 PM   #1441
Ender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb8560 View Post
I just got a Tivo HD with a life time membership and started using it. I have multiple programs Standard Definition program on it and wanted to expand the hard drive before I starting using it for HD programs since it will fill up quickly. I bought a western digital 1TB E-Sata hard drive but then found out the only way I can install it with Tivo HD that is with a hack on this fourum.

I had a few questions concerning trying this hack

Will it erase the programs that are currently on my drive?

If so is thier anyway to back up all the programs on your computer with tivo HD?

Also will it void warranty?

When will Tivo allow you to hook up a E-Sata hard drive that is not the 500 GB my dvr expander?

Casey
I was told and probably concur that instead of using an external drive, just upgrade the internal drive of the TivoHD to the 1TB drive.

Keep the existing drive as a backup or something.

If you decide to do the internal upgrade - from the 1st post in the thread:

Quote:
TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings

These instructions are for use under Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.

1. Remove the outer case and existing drive using a torx screwdriver in the T10 size. If you don't have one of appropriate length, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4.

2. Download WinMFS here.

3. Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.

If your computer does not already have SATA ports, consider using a PCI SATA controller board. One user reports a 25x increase in data transfer speed by using SATA instead of USB—6 hours to transfer 750GB of data vs. 6 days.

4. Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."

5. In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 'Drive B.

6. In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.

You don't use this now. It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.

7. In WinMFS, designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A."

8. Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.

When using USB->SATA adapters, this copy process can take as long as several days depending on the number of recordings on your original drive. WinMFS does not refresh its GUI during this process, so it may appear to hang, but it is still working as intended. If you want to monitor the progress of WinMFS' copying, use 'Ctrl+Alt-Del' to invoke the Windows Task Manager, then navigate to 'Bytes In' and 'Bytes Out.'

9. After the copy is complete, select Tools-> Mfsadd.

10. Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.

11. Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.

12. Reinstall the internal drive and replace the TiVo's outer case.

13. You're done. Store your original TiVo drive in a safe place.
Not sure about losing your programs on the internal drive, if you just try to add an external one.

As for the warranty? Probably, but who knows what Tivo will do. They know about the 'hacking' culture and don't try to do anything to stop it.

But I've had a Series 1, Series 2, and now the TivoHD and I've never had to call tech support once.
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:25 PM   #1442
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Originally Posted by Ender View Post
I was told and probably concur that instead of using an external drive, just upgrade the internal drive of the TivoHD to the 1TB drive.
You won't loose your recordings. You can copy your settings and shows to a new drive with WinMFS. Also adding an external drive after the fact won't loose recordings either (as I am about to find out).
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:26 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by Chew View Post
As a point of reference, how does the typical S3 HD that TiVo installs rate for noise level?

I've bought a few HDs for my previous TiVos and they were never quiet enough compared to the original. Even after doing the suggested adjustments.
My original 250GB drive in my S3 was extremely quiet. My new WD10EVCS is just as quiet, IMO.
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:46 PM   #1444
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Originally Posted by Chew View Post
As a point of reference, how does the typical S3 HD that TiVo installs rate for noise level?
I've bought a few HDs for my previous TiVos and they were never quiet enough compared to the original. Even after doing the suggested adjustments.
It's a fairly quiet drive compared to a number of others:
Features/Specifications:

* Western Digital WD2500BS 250 GB Serial ATA Hard Drive

* General Features:
* 250 GB storage capacity
* SATA/150
* 7200 RPM spindle speed
* 2 MB buffer
* 3.5-inch form factor

* Power Specifications:
* +5V, 0.92A
* +12V, 0.90A

* Acoustics:
Idle Mode 25 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 3 26 dBA (average)
The 1TB WD GP line of drives has very similar acoustic specs which is quite good considering the difference in size. However a large part of how that's accomplished is by using a variable RPM feature (5400 to 7200).
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:02 PM   #1445
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Originally Posted by cb8560 View Post
I just got a Tivo HD with a life time membership and started using it. I have multiple programs Standard Definition program on it and wanted to expand the hard drive before I starting using it for HD programs since it will fill up quickly. I bought a western digital 1TB E-Sata hard drive but then found out the only way I can install it with Tivo HD that is with a hack on this fourum.

I had a few questions concerning trying this hack

Will it erase the programs that are currently on my drive?

If so is thier anyway to back up all the programs on your computer with tivo HD?

Also will it void warranty?

When will Tivo allow you to hook up a E-Sata hard drive that is not the 500 GB my dvr expander?

Casey
You can use WinMFS to copy all of your recordings and settings to your new drive. Just be sure to follow the directions carefully. You could also use TiVo Desktop to transfer your recordings to your PC, but again, you don't have to.

The one-year warranty states (and I'm paraphrasing their legal speak) that if you alter the unit that it will void your warranty. That said, if you have problems you can always reinstall your original hard drive and based on a number of years of posts on this forum, it doesn't appear that TiVo will challenge you if you don't mention it. Of course if you damage the unit while working on it (highly unlikely) that would be that.

With regard to when TiVo (or anyone) will offer a larger, approved external hard drive for the TiVo HD, your guess is as good as anyone else's. Both TiVo and Western Digital have responded to inquiries by saying that a larger expansion drive might be available in "late 2008". However you can use WinMFS to add a number of different, larger eSATA drives now. As mentioned previously, since you have to pull the original hard drive to do so, you might as well replace the internal drive first (put the original drive on the shelf as a backup) and if you need even more space, add a new eSATA drive later.
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Old 06-19-2008, 10:24 PM   #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
It's a fairly quiet drive compared to a number of others:
I was most curious how the original drives rate on the 1-10 scale used on the first page (#27).

I really don't need a 1TB drive, but those are the only "10"s. Which means I have to get an "8", but only if that's the same or better than the original WD drives.

Keeping the noise level down is more important than the upgrade.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:00 AM   #1447
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Originally Posted by Chew View Post
I was most curious how the original drives rate on the 1-10 scale used on the first page (#27).

I really don't need a 1TB drive, but those are the only "10"s. Which means I have to get an "8", but only if that's the same or better than the original WD drives.

Keeping the noise level down is more important than the upgrade.
The original hard drive specs indicate that it would be about an 8 or 9 on that scale, again, quite good.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:47 AM   #1448
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Thanks.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:51 AM   #1449
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Hey, I'm finally getting around to upgrading my internal drive and was looking for a list of 1TB drives. Is the list on the first page the most up to date thing around? Newegg has WD10EACS but doesn't give the extension, just says "OEM." Will this be one of the "bad" versions?
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:08 AM   #1450
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more questions

So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?

How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:24 AM   #1451
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Originally Posted by cb8560 View Post
So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?

How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.
All the answers to your questions can be found by reading the first page of this thread.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:41 AM   #1452
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Hey, I'm finally getting around to upgrading my internal drive and was looking for a list of 1TB drives. Is the list on the first page the most up to date thing around? Newegg has WD10EACS but doesn't give the extension, just says "OEM." Will this be one of the "bad" versions?
Bad for internal use with the original S3.

Good for all other uses: good for internal use with Tivo HD. Good for external use with original S3 and Tivo HD.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:18 AM   #1453
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So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?

How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.
As drhankz says, everything you need to know is in the first post of this thread and on MFSLive.

You can use up to a 1TB drive.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:10 PM   #1454
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The 1TB WD GP line of drives has very similar acoustic specs which is quite good considering the difference in size. However a large part of how that's accomplished is by using a variable RPM feature (5400 to 7200).
You've been confused by their marketing, and you're far from alone! There are a number of conclusive tests that show the current GP drives are all fixed at 5400rpm (e.g., check out silentpcreview.com's review). This has been confirmed by examining the acoustic resonance at 90Hz, which corresponds to 5400rpm.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:24 PM   #1455
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How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?

The jumper (across 1&2) for disabled and enabled is both the same.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....reated=#jumper
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:55 PM   #1456
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How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?

The jumper (across 1&2) for disabled and enabled is both the same.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....reated=#jumper
I remember looking at those last year when folks were trying various jumper settings when the WD10EACS didn't recover from a soft reboot, but nothing they tried worked and in fact made things worse.

For TiVo purposes my understanding is that there s/b no jumper at all (that's how are is configured...or not configured I guess). Now if you're talking a PC application, the only jumper settings I know are for master/slave.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:58 PM   #1457
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You've been confused by their marketing, and you're far from alone! There are a number of conclusive tests that show the current GP drives are all fixed at 5400rpm (e.g., check out silentpcreview.com's review). This has been confirmed by examining the acoustic resonance at 90Hz, which corresponds to 5400rpm.
For TiVo 5400 RPM is fine. But you're saying (or they're saying) that the WD10EACS will never achieve 7200 RPM under any circumstance? If that's the case, it's not misleading marketing, it's totally false advertising.
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Old 06-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #1458
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Yes, it is obfuscation carried to the nth degree! When you carefully read the marketing tripe you discover that they don't actually say the speed is variable on any particular model but rather the designed speed of the models in the whole Green line varies according to a balance of performance and energy use that only WD really knows. Different models can have different speeds and they want to deemphasize rpm as a specification to be pondered and compared by the end user. Another study based on bit density and throughput calculations showed that the WD10EACS was slighty faster than 5400rpm but in any case it is static and is not even close to 7200rpm.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:22 PM   #1459
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That's really interesting. I took it to mean that drive performance is based on data throughput...up to 7200 RPM when required and lower when appropriate. I know it will be fine in my TiVo, but I've considered it for one of my PC's on a couple of occassions; wanting to do the right/green thing. I'll just stick with Seagate drives as I have in the past I guess. Thanks for the heads up.

Last edited by richsadams : 06-20-2008 at 08:46 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:48 PM   #1460
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How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?
SSC reduces RFI by changing the data rate slightly on the SATA wires. There is really no functional/performance difference.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:57 PM   #1461
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5400 vs 7200 RPM: Unless you have disk intensive applications, my opinion is that most users do not need "high performance" drives. For me, lower power, temperature, and noise are much more important than performance.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:48 PM   #1462
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5400 vs 7200 RPM: Unless you have disk intensive applications, my opinion is that most users do not need "high performance" drives. For me, lower power, temperature, and noise are much more important than performance.
Good points. I do a lot of video editing however and need to be sure everything can keep up. That's mostly a processing/memory issue but I'd hate for the drive to be a bottleneck.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:40 PM   #1463
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Question about INTERNAL upgrades. I have read the first three, and the last page (sorry, didn't read the remaining 44 ). I think I know the answer but wanted to make sure first.

I have a Series3, from the day of its inception (8.0 or such). It was right away upgraded with a 750GiB DB35 drive. Now, I would like to
- FIRST upgrade the internal drive to 1TiB
- LATER (soon ) add a 2nd 2TiB external drive
both times preserving the original recordings

If I read / interpret III.11 and III.30 correctly, this should be possible. I just want to make sure, because it used to be (back then) that an upgraded drive was not further upgradeable. I haven't been following the upgrade technology in a while since 750GiB was sufficient, until now.

Or am I stuck with the 750GiB internally and can only add 1TiB externally?

Any clarification, or confirmation, of this would be much appreciated.

BTW, why is it that the "high end" S3 supports only up to 2TB (2.2TiB) while the THD supports some exabytes? Seems backwards, but that's just me. Nothing that a software update shouldn't fix, no?

Thanks!
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:42 AM   #1464
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There is no problem re-upgrading with WinMFS. I upgraded from 250GB to 500GB, and then to 1TB, with all recordings intact.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:22 AM   #1465
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WD10EACS 1TB for $169.99

Best Buy has the Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB hard drive on sale for $169.99. That's a good price for anyone wanting to upgrade the internal hard drive in their TiVo HD or add an eSATA drive to their Series3.

NOTE: this drive is almost guaranteed to be a WD10EACS-00ZJB0. This drive CANNOT be used to upgrade the internal hard drive in a Series3 due to soft reboot failure.

Please refer to the first post on this thread for more info on adding an eSATA drive or upgrading the internal hard drive of the TiVo HD or Series3.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:11 AM   #1466
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...I have a Series3, from the day of its inception (8.0 or such). It was right away upgraded with a 750GiB DB35 drive. Now, I would like to
- FIRST upgrade the internal drive to 1TiB
- LATER (soon ) add a 2nd 2TiB external drive
both times preserving the original recordings

...BTW, why is it that the "high end" S3 supports only up to 2TB (2.2TiB) while the THD supports some exabytes? Seems backwards, but that's just me. Nothing that a software update shouldn't fix, no?
As C3 said, there is no problem doing what you envision as long as you do it in that order. Since you will have to remove the internal drive for each of your upgrade steps why not just wait till you can consolidate both into one step (unless soon isn't very soon).

Any difference in ultimate capacity would be related to the difference between a 64-bit (THD) and 32-bit (S3) MFS file system. 2TB would be an awsome system. I discovered that I end up never watching again all the great stuff I archive but being "a do it because one can" sort of person, I support your plan.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:32 AM   #1467
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Hey gurus,

I felt very proud of myself in following the instructions in the FAQ to add a non-approved eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD, but it now randomly reboots on itself wrecking my recordings and viewing experience

I have a standard (i.e. non-internally upgraded) Tivo HD. I have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and a Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA drive (ST31000340NS).

I removed the Tivo's internal drive and placed it into one of the enclosures and the Seagate in the other. I ran WinMFS per the instructions in the FAQ to get the Seagate ready. I returned Tivo's internal drive and connected the eSATA enclosure with a SATA II <=> SATA II cable (included with the enclosure) to Tivo. The drive was recognized and began to be used.

Unfortunately, Tivo restarted after only a few hours. I decided perhaps the included SATA II cable was bad, so I picked up one from Microcenter - still had reboots.

Next, I overnighted the SIIG cable listed here (my significant other is starting to not give a crap about expanded storage). Got a reboot within about 20 minutes.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? I love the idea of this much storage and particularly don't want to have to remove it now that it would erase everything in the de-pairing process.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:33 PM   #1468
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Not sure if you have already attempted this - try switching the enclosure that you are using for the external drive. There have been posts on this thread about faulty enclosures causing Tivo to behave erratically.

Ajay

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Originally Posted by BWilliamsDC View Post
Hey gurus,

I felt very proud of myself in following the instructions in the FAQ to add a non-approved eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD, but it now randomly reboots on itself wrecking my recordings and viewing experience

I have a standard (i.e. non-internally upgraded) Tivo HD. I have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and a Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA drive (ST31000340NS).

I removed the Tivo's internal drive and placed it into one of the enclosures and the Seagate in the other. I ran WinMFS per the instructions in the FAQ to get the Seagate ready. I returned Tivo's internal drive and connected the eSATA enclosure with a SATA II <=> SATA II cable (included with the enclosure) to Tivo. The drive was recognized and began to be used.

Unfortunately, Tivo restarted after only a few hours. I decided perhaps the included SATA II cable was bad, so I picked up one from Microcenter - still had reboots.

Next, I overnighted the SIIG cable listed here (my significant other is starting to not give a crap about expanded storage). Got a reboot within about 20 minutes.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? I love the idea of this much storage and particularly don't want to have to remove it now that it would erase everything in the de-pairing process.

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Old 06-25-2008, 02:58 PM   #1469
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Not sure if you have already attempted this - try switching the enclosure that you are using for the external drive. There have been posts on this thread about faulty enclosures causing Tivo to behave erratically.

Ajay
I haven't - wish Tivo took USB or Firewire... I have a few of those lying around but no eSATA alternates. I'm leery of buying a new one if it won't work but might give it a shot. Starting to wonder why I didn't just do the internal option.
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:15 PM   #1470
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I haven't - wish Tivo took USB or Firewire... I have a few of those lying around but no eSATA alternates. I'm leery of buying a new one if it won't work but might give it a shot. Starting to wonder why I didn't just do the internal option.
In your original post, you had mentioned that you have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and I was thinking maybe you can switch the enclosure you are using with the other one.

Ajay
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