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Old 03-06-2008, 01:49 PM   #931
bkdtv
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I added the WD10EVCS to the first post.

By request, I also added a new "noise level" column to the list of drives in FAQ #27. Please review and let me know if any entries should be modified.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:19 PM   #932
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I wanted to do a quick check about internal upgrades to a TiVoHD. I previously upgraded my Series 2 Direct Tivos with little problem.

In any case, in referencing the listing of hard drives in the initial post, they make reference to external drives and to Series 3, but I'm wondering if this list is also the best drives to use for a Tivo HD. I've been searching amazon and newegg for the Seagate drives mentioned, but I can't find the exact model number listed.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:03 PM   #933
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FAQ I.19 Method to swap external drives?

I saw this on post #1

19. Can I swap between multiple eSATA drives to multiply my capacity?

No. When you connect an eSATA drive to the TiVo, that drive is "married" to the built-in hard drive. Only one eSATA drive can be "married" to the TiVo's built-in hard drive at any given time. You can remove an eSATA drive and replace it with another, but then you lose access to the recordings made on that drive.

-------------
Suppose I power down the S3, clone the external eSATA drive to a different external eSATA drive, swap the new external drive for the old, and power the S3 back up.

Will I lose any recordings made since I originally set up the old external drive?

The reason I want to do this is that my external drive case (NewerTech miniStack v3) has a fan bearing problem and I am being shipped a replacement. I'd like to clone all the data from the noisy drive to the replacement and not lose programs.

I imagine there are others who would want to use this procedure to replace there original external drive with larger capacity drive.

Anyone?

Thanks,

-Alan
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:07 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by vulture99 View Post
That's great news. I'm a new TiVo HD owner (woot.com deal) and plan to add the same drive. How quiet or noisy does the drive seem to you? Did you adjust any acoustic management settings?
As quiet or quieter than the stock drive out-of-the-box. This drive, WD10EVCS, is specifically designed for DVR type use so it's quiet and supposedly better suited for constant operation compared to a drive designed for use in PC's where it has down time.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:13 PM   #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faerie View Post
I wanted to do a quick check about internal upgrades to a TiVoHD. I previously upgraded my Series 2 Direct Tivos with little problem.

In any case, in referencing the listing of hard drives in the initial post, they make reference to external drives and to Series 3, but I'm wondering if this list is also the best drives to use for a Tivo HD. I've been searching amazon and newegg for the Seagate drives mentioned, but I can't find the exact model number listed.
I edited the post to make it clear that the list applies to both internal and external drive upgrades. All of the drives on that list will work well as internal upgrades for the TivoHD.

Newegg primarily sells desktop drives; I don't think they sell any "DVR models." Buy.com has the 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS for $245 with free shipping, or $233 after this coupon.

TheNerds.net used to have the Seagate DB35 drives, but it appears they are sold out of the SATA model right now.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:22 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by dwit View Post
Just to clarify: the Tivo HD didn't have the soft reboot or any issues with the WD drives.

Only the S3 model unit had problems.
Ah, ok, thanks. That's even better
BTW, I ordered the WD10EVCS from buy.com today for about $233 shipped (found a 5% coupon online).

(edit) Heh, bkdtv beat me to it
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:04 PM   #937
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anyone know the reasoning behind only letting you use the MyDVR on the TivoHD, while the Series3 has full reign? seems like it's a restriction put in there only to make you consider the Series3.
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:11 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by briansemerick View Post
anyone know the reasoning behind only letting you use the MyDVR on the TivoHD, while the Series3 has full reign? seems like it's a restriction put in there only to make you consider the Series3.
When they first enabled e-sata on the S3 they didn't have any restrictions on drive types and were probably inundated with support calls. They decided in the HD to limit external drives to ones they had confirmed work well, but decided not to screw over all the S3 users that had already hooked up drives.
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:27 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by brewman View Post
When they first enabled e-sata on the S3 they didn't have any restrictions on drive types and were probably inundated with support calls. They decided in the HD to limit external drives to ones they had confirmed work well, but decided not to screw over all the S3 users that had already hooked up drives.
Not quite....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.

There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!

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Old 03-06-2008, 04:48 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by brewman View Post
Completed upgrading of an S3's internal drive to a 1TB WD WD10EVCS (1TB AV GP SATA II). Upgraded with Mfscopy and Supersize. Copied existing shows/settings without problem.

TiVo reporting 144 HD hours.

Passed soft reboot test

Everything appears to be working normally.
Great to hear and thanks for reporting back.

Did you happen to copy down the actual drive/model number? It would be great to know exactly which designation WD is using for this new drive.

Cheers again for that!
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:04 PM   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokoko View Post
I saw this on post #1

19. Can I swap between multiple eSATA drives to multiply my capacity?

No. When you connect an eSATA drive to the TiVo, that drive is "married" to the built-in hard drive. Only one eSATA drive can be "married" to the TiVo's built-in hard drive at any given time. You can remove an eSATA drive and replace it with another, but then you lose access to the recordings made on that drive.

-------------
Suppose I power down the S3, clone the external eSATA drive to a different external eSATA drive, swap the new external drive for the old, and power the S3 back up.

Will I lose any recordings made since I originally set up the old external drive?
The answer is almost a certain yes, you will lose all of the recordings made since you connected your expansion drive. As mentioned previously all external drives are married to the internal drive when they are connected. TiVo recognizes external drives by their model number and each time a new drive is connected the drive is formatted or re-formatted and all data lost. That said, it's remotely possible that if you cloned the exact same drive (brand, model, size, etc.) TiVo might accept it as the original. AFAIK, no one has ever tried that.

The question of replacing an existing eSATA drive with a larger eSATA drive has come up before (yours truly asked about it several months ago on the MFSLive Forum). There is currently no way to save any of the recordings made since the expansion drive was installed due to the drive recognition factor. That may or may not be overcome one day, but at present, it's not possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokoko View Post
The reason I want to do this is that my external drive case (NewerTech miniStack v3) has a fan bearing problem and I am being shipped a replacement. I'd like to clone all the data from the noisy drive to the replacement and not lose programs.

I imagine there are others who would want to use this procedure to replace there original external drive with larger capacity drive.

Anyone?

Thanks,

-Alan
If it's an external enclosure problem and not the actual drive my recommendation would be to put your existing drive into the new enclosure (if you can R&R the drives w/o voiding the warranty).

So if you can open your existing case, remove your drive and put it into the case you'll receive that should solve your dilemma. Another option would be to buy the recommended Antec MX-1 external enclosure and install your existing eSATA drive.

Bottom line is that external enclosures are transparent to TiVo; it's the actual drive that's important.

Remember, when removing and replacing your eSATA drive make sure you follow the correct order:

Removing the eSATA Drive

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Turn off/unplug the eSATA drive
3. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo

Installing or re-installing the eSATA Drive

1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
2. Plug in/turn on the eSATA drive
3. Plug TiVo in

Last edited by richsadams : 03-06-2008 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:55 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Great to hear and thanks for reporting back.

Did you happen to copy down the actual drive/model number? It would be great to know exactly which designation WD is using for this new drive.

Cheers again for that!
Unfortunately I didn't record the numbers on the drive itself. I will say it was an OEM drive (not retail).
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:15 PM   #943
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There is no retail boxed version of that WD10EVCS drive.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:31 AM   #944
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Ah, ok, thanks. That's even better
BTW, I ordered the WD10EVCS from buy.com today for about $233 shipped (found a 5% coupon online).

(edit) Heh, bkdtv beat me to it
Is anyone concerned about how well these bare drives are packed for shipping? The retail boxes seem well engineered to prevent damage, but the last bare drive I got from Newegg had a small amount of bubble wrap and some styrofoam peanuts that didn't instill confidence.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:41 AM   #945
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Is anyone concerned about how well these bare drives are packed for shipping? The retail boxes seem well engineered to prevent damage, but the last bare drive I got from Newegg had a small amount of bubble wrap and some styrofoam peanuts that didn't instill confidence.
I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:47 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.
Drives will take a very large "G" load when they are NOT RUNNING

Therefore bubble wrap is even better than hard plastic.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:52 AM   #947
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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post
Drives will take a very large "G" load when they are NOT RUNNING

Therefore bubble wrap is even better than hard plastic.
True enough. As long as the heads are parked it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:21 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.
Sounds like Newegg does a better job than ComputerHQ. The only protection was a cardboard "frame" that was supposed to hold the drive centered in the box. No bubble wrap, peanuts, etc. When I opened the box the drive had slipped out of the frame and was free to bounce around. It did not give me the warm fuzzies but it's been running OK since January.
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Old 03-08-2008, 04:56 PM   #949
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I've bought several hard drives from NewEgg over the years, which have always come wrapped in bubble wrap, but otherwise bouncing around loose in the box. I've had one be DOA, and a couple of others fail prematurely. My conclusion is to not buy drives from NewEgg anymore due to their poor packaging (but I do still buy other parts and stuff from NewEgg that come in retail packaging when they have the lowest price - I have no other issues with NewEgg as a vendor).

At this point I pretty much stick with buying my hard drives from buy.com. I have always found their packaging to be much better than the bubble wrap approach, and I don't think I've never had a drive fail that I bought from buy.com.

I also buy almost exclusively Seagate hard drives. I've seen every other brand of hard drive out there fail in one way or another, but in the past 15 years I have yet to see a Seagate drive fail (other than Seagate notebook drives, but that's another story). However, I'm getting tired of waiting for the 1TB DB35.4 drives to ship so that I can upgrade my TiVo HD to 2 TB (1 TB internal + 1 TB external). The latest deal from buy.com on the 1 TB WD drives is very tempting, even though I'm not much of a fan of WD drives.

And, if you think your UPS/FedEx/DHL/etc. driver is hard on your packages, you've never been to a sorting facility and seen what really happens to your packages. I spent a week at a sorting facility once, and the way that packages are thrown onto conveyors, dropped on the floor, thrown into trucks, and just generally handled without care is appaulling. It's really quite amazing that more merchandise isn't completely destroyed in transit. When you know what really happens to your packages, you realize very quickly that NewEgg's packaging is not the way to go. Or at least that's my personal opinion. YMMV.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:10 PM   #950
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Hi,
I had a Bright House tech out to see about some missing channels. Going through the motions, the tech had asked to see the cable cards so he could get the serial number from them. I unplugged the tivo (S3), then the eSATA cable, but never power cycled the external drive (Western Digital My DVR Expander) . It was only after I plugged the eSATA cable back in and then the power cable to the tivo did I think about what I read in the dvr expander documents about the process for temporarily removing the drive. At 2:00/3:00 this morning, the tivo was hung, with no response to the remote (except for finally rebooting due to much button mashing). I don't know if the two are related (no power cycle of HDD, and tivo hang), but I thought I'd mention it.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:30 PM   #951
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Help

I'm stuck, and need assistance.


I have a TivoHD, and bought a Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE, and the antec mx1 enclosure.

I've opened up my THD, but HOW am i supposed to connect both Tivo Drives (new external and existing internal) to my PC??

My PC is a fairly crappy 2 year old HP with Sata Drive, but there are not any extra power cables, and I have NO extra sata cables. Am i going to have to slave one of these drives? how do I have all three hard drives connected at once?

"Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."

To me this seems vague, but so many of you have done this successfully, what am I missing?
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:35 PM   #952
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I'm in the Process of UPGRADING internal HD to 1 TB

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
True enough. As long as the heads are parked it shouldn't be a problem.
Today - I'm upgrading from the 160GB standard
Internal HD on the TiVo HD to a 1 TB Internal.

I have only one recording on the Internal HD.
I'm using USB to SATA adapters on my PC
for the process.

Any IDEA how long the MFCopy will take.

Just curious.
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:57 PM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
The FAP has gotten very mixed results and consequently has never been recommended for TiVo.

But glad you were able to get yours working!
I just wanted to add another data point for the FreeAgent Pro. I added the 1tb FAP, which seemed to work fine for a while, But in just one evening's viewing time, my S3 unexpectedly rebooted twice. That had never happened before, it was obviously the FreeAgent Pro or the esata cable, since those were the only new items.

After reading horror stories on the net about the FreeAgent's poor esata interface, I decided it just wasn't worth messing with any longer. Back to Fry's it went.

I replaced it with an Antec MX-1 and an OEM 7200.11 1tb, with which I have had no further reboots.

Just letting everyone know that the FreeAgents are not 100% reliable with the Tivos yet.

It's really too bad, because I thought the whole device was very stylish--I almost wanted to put it out where it could be seen.

TTYL
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:59 PM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmstone View Post
I'm stuck, and need assistance.


I have a TivoHD, and bought a Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE, and the antec mx1 enclosure.

I've opened up my THD, but HOW am i supposed to connect both Tivo Drives (new external and existing internal) to my PC??

My PC is a fairly crappy 2 year old HP with Sata Drive, but there are not any extra power cables, and I have NO extra sata cables. Am i going to have to slave one of these drives? how do I have all three hard drives connected at once?

"Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."

To me this seems vague, but so many of you have done this successfully, what am I missing?
With SATA, there is no such thing as master/slave. If there are no SATA or power connections for you to use inside the computer, then you may need to use an external SATA->USB adapter.

Since you have to remove the internal drive anyway, you may opt to simply replace/upgrade the internal drive. If you just want to replace the internal drive, and don't need to backup the existing recordings, then there is no need to have multiple drives connected at once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post
Today - I'm upgrading from the 160GB standard
Internal HD on the TiVo HD to a 1 TB Internal.

I have only one recording on the Internal HD.
I'm using USB to SATA adapters on my PC
for the process.

Any IDEA how long the MFCopy will take.
I've heard people state ~30 minutes and other people report 6 hours (or more). I suspect it depends on the USB adapter and the USB interface in the computer.

If you want to backup and restore only your software and settings (season passes, wishlists, etc), and not the previous recordings, it should only take a few minutes. For that, you would just do backup and restore, not mfscopy.
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Old 03-09-2008, 04:27 PM   #955
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What did I do Wrong?

I took my ORIGINAL TiVo HD 160 GB hard drive out.

I backed it up on my PC - just in case.

I used Mfscopy to copy everything from the 160 GB
drive to my NEW 1 TB Drive. I did not use Mfsupersize.

I did not use Mfsadd after mfscopy because the ending
message said it had already been done.

I installed the new 1 TB drive in the internal TiVo HD
box. The System boots fine - everything is there even
the single recorded program.

My PROBLEM is when I go to System Info - it is showing
only 20 hours of recording capacity.

I'm running TiVo 9.2a-01-2-652

What did I do WRONG?
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Old 03-09-2008, 04:37 PM   #956
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Expand the drive

You didn't expand the drive. Put it back in your PC and you can do it now.
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Old 03-09-2008, 04:38 PM   #957
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Sounds like it did not do mfsadd after all.

You need to reconnect just the new 1TB drive and run mfsadd.

Edit: I will remove the "This step is unnecessary if WinMFS already asked you to expand the new drive after the Mfscopy or Restore" from the FAQ because it sounds like WinMFS doesn't automatically expand after a Mfscopy, despite what it says. WinMFS does expand automatically after a Restore.

Last edited by bkdtv : 03-09-2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:34 PM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
You didn't expand the drive. Put it back in your PC and you can do it now.
After Mfscopy it said it had already DONE IT.

I have since taken the drive out and manually
Done the Mfsadd and Mfssupersize

It now boots up and recognizes the 1 TB Drive Size.

I guess the first message after Mfscopy was WRONG.
Oh Well [GRIN] it is working now.

Thanks.
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Old 03-10-2008, 04:15 PM   #959
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Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.

I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.

The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0
(I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)
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Old 03-10-2008, 07:17 PM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osoc2 View Post
Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.

I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.

The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0
(I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)
Thanks much for posting the full drive model number.

Two confirmations that the new WD 1TB AV GP drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo Series3's (and presumably for TiVo HD's) is great news indeed!

Noted that Buy.com has it for $261.99 w/free shipping. Not a screamin' deal, but not too bad either.
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