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Old 01-17-2013, 01:08 PM   #9301
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My 1TB middleman method (which was born out of my desire to increase the size of the swap partition and keep all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB) will not work with the MFS Live cd, because it always leaves a little extra space at the end which gets turned into an Apple Free partition, and jmfs sees that as a partition and copies it, which makes the partition it adds the 17th partition, and a TiVo can only have 16 per drive.

Also, I don't know if it'll let you break the "no bigger than 1.2TB" rule the way WinMFS will.
What is the benefit in increasing the size of the swap partition and in keeping "all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB"? Or is that just necessary in order to use the full capacity of a 2TB drive?

Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly. Since I originally used the MFS Live CD to create the 750GB Tivo Drive, does that mean a little extra space is left at the end which JMFS would then "misuse" (by creating the taboo 17th partition) when using that as my source drive? Is there a workaround for that? Or is that what makes WinMFS a preferred (if not the only) method in my case?

Since the MFSLive.org forum seems to be inactive, is there anything special I need to do in WinMFS to permit breaking the 1.2TB rule?

Perhaps my most reliable route would be to use my other THD's 1TB drive as the "1TB middleman" source drive? (although then I don't get to copy the 750GB shows)

BTW, I have a 2nd PC that is rarely used anymore with a couple free SATA cables I can dedicate to this task. Does that tip the scales in favor of using JMFS at all?

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Old 01-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #9302
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What is the benefit in increasing the size of the swap partition and in keeping "all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB"? Or is that just necessary in order to use the full capacity of a 2TB drive?

Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly. Since I originally used the MFS Live CD to create the 750GB Tivo Drive, does that mean a little extra space is left at the end which JMFS would then "misuse" (by creating the taboo 17th partition) when using that as my source drive? Is there a workaround for that? Or is that what makes WinMFS a preferred (if not the only) method in my case?

Since the WinLive.org forum seems to be inactive, is there anything special I need to do in WinMFS to permit breaking the 1.2TB rule?

I do not know for a fact that there is a benefit.

Once upon a time, back in the days of the Series 1s and 2s, when the 137GB barrier was being overcome, the rule of thumb suggested by those who pioneered putting larger drives in TiVos than TiVo did was 1MB of swap for every 2 GB of drive.

1 GB of swap on a 2TB drive amounts to about 15 minutes of best quality analog cable video. I consider that cheap insurance.

There used to be a 1.2 (or thereabouts) TB limit on partition size (that works out to 1 TB binary, where it's 1024 x 1024 x ...), which may no longer be the case with later verisons of the TiVo operating system software, since people using jmfs on Premiere's are adding a single partition whose size is 2TB minus the original 320GB and suffering no ill effects, but again, since I can do it in a way to keep the biggest partition under 1TB and still use all of a 2TB drive, I figure it's cheap insurance.

You can hook your 750 back up to the PC you used on it originally and boot with the MFS Live cd and run

pdisk -l /dev/sd"whatever letter corresponds to that drive"

and see if there is an Apple Free partition.

(that -l is a lowercase L)

If so, there's a procedure outlined around here somewhere by a guy upgrading an original OLED S3 that involves a hex editor to remove the last partition and all references to it in the headers of the other partions, and then use jmfs.

Or you could try using WinMFS to copy the 750 to a 2TB and after it finishes don't say yes when it offers to use the extra space, but back out and then go back and click on mfsadd to see if it won't expand that last MFS media partition into the rest of the drive and try that in the TiVo and if works, great!

You can also skip MFS Live and just start in WinMFS and click on mfsinfo and it'll show you the partition map.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:52 PM   #9303
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Perhaps my most reliable route would be to use my other THD's 1TB drive as the "1TB middleman" source drive? (although then I don't get to copy the 750GB shows)
I successfully used WinMFS to go straight from 500GB to 1.5TB, with no "middleman". I chose Yes when it asked me if I wanted to expand, then No to the question about limiting the partition size to 1TB, and it created a 1.1TB partition as the last partition, with no empy-space "apple_free" 17th partition after that. It's been running without a reboot since I did the upgrade about 6 weeks ago.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:47 AM   #9304
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I successfully used WinMFS to go straight from 500GB to 1.5TB, with no "middleman". I chose Yes when it asked me if I wanted to expand, then No to the question about limiting the partition size to 1TB, and it created a 1.1TB partition as the last partition, with no empy-space "apple_free" 17th partition after that. It's been running without a reboot since I did the upgrade about 6 weeks ago.
On a 648 or a 652?
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:15 AM   #9305
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I think I figured out one time that the max limit is a little over 2TB soomething like 2.12tb based on the maximum block count available in the apple partition table. If someone ever finds a way of using larger than 512mb blocks on a tivo we could go higher.
I am not sure a middle drive would be needed to expand an S3. whatever size the initial S3 drive is, any resulting partition size plus the original partition size would be 2TB. Curently my OLED S3 has a 1.6TB MFS partition.

What would be really great is to figure out how to expand the original MFS partitions to take up 2TB then we can add an external drive for another 2TB.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:23 AM   #9306
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I think I figured out one time that the max limit is a little over 2TB soomething like 2.12tb based on the maximum block count available in the apple partition table. If someone ever finds a way of using larger than 512mb blocks on a tivo we could go higher.
I am not sure a middle drive would be needed to expand an S3. whatever size the initial S3 drive is, any resulting partition size plus the original partition size would be 2TB. Curently my OLED S3 has a 1.6TB MFS partition.

What would be really great is to figure out how to expand the original MFS partitions to take up 2TB then we can add an external drive for another 2TB.

Jim
It depends on whether you're talking decimal bytes or binary bytes.

Drives are labled with decimal bytes 'cause it makes the number bigger, but some OS things are labeled in binary bytes.

Curently my OLED S3 also has a 1.6TB MFS partition, but it's been re-booting once or twice a day, so I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not.

I tried to see if I could get jmfs to work on it, but it refuses to recognize the 648 software as a TiVo drive.

The middleman approach allowed me to use WinMFS to go from my HD's 160GB drive to a 1TB while increasing the swap partition size, and jmfs allowed me to copy that to a 2TB and expand into it by creating a single 16th partition, and I kept all partitions under 1TB (or 1.2TB) that way.

Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #9307
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Just thought I'd post that it's now been six months since I upgraded my OLED S3 (648) with a WD20EURS (details here.) So far the Tivo hasn't missed a thing, even when left on its own for several weeks while I was away on a trip.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:45 PM   #9308
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.........Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.
So ... you're granting an unlimited license NOT to use your method, correct? What if I do choose NOT to use your method and have a bad experience? Can I blame you?
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #9309
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It depends on whether you're talking decimal bytes or binary bytes.

Drives are labled with decimal bytes 'cause it makes the number bigger, but some OS things are labeled in binary bytes.

Curently my OLED S3 also has a 1.6TB MFS partition, but it's been re-booting once or twice a day, so I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not.

I tried to see if I could get jmfs to work on it, but it refuses to recognize the 648 software as a TiVo drive.

The middleman approach allowed me to use WinMFS to go from my HD's 160GB drive to a 1TB while increasing the swap partition size, and jmfs allowed me to copy that to a 2TB and expand into it by creating a single 16th partition, and I kept all partitions under 1TB (or 1.2TB) that way.

Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.
The space in the partition table is 4 bytes long so you get 4294967295 total addressable blocks.

My OLED S3 has not had a single reboot problem yet. It has been about 2 months on the 2TB drive.

Might check to make sure mounting screws on the motherboard and power supply are snug so that both are grounded well. This solved a reboot problem for me in the past. The other one was replacing all the capacitors in the power supply. (even if they look good) Had a non TiVo DVR respond to that fix.

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Old 01-19-2013, 03:40 PM   #9310
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On a 648 or a 652?
648.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:20 PM   #9311
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So ... you're granting an unlimited license NOT to use your method, correct? What if I do choose NOT to use your method and have a bad experience? Can I blame you?
Yes, but only if you can prove that you would not have had a bad experience if you had used my method.

And if you sent me that 1TB drive after you copied it to the 2TB drive.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #9312
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Yes, but only if you can prove that you would not have had a bad experience if you had used my method.

And if you sent me that 1TB drive after you copied it to the 2TB drive.
You guys should be in DC...perhaps Congress.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:20 PM   #9313
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...perhaps Congress.
I've been insulted, disrespected, and reviled, but no one's ever sunk that low before.


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Old 01-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #9314
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I've been insulted, disrespected, and reviled, but no one's ever sunk that low before.

Sorry! I do think that they are now even below car salesmen!
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:43 PM   #9315
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Sorry! I do think that they are now even below car salesmen!
Right now I think they're rated somewhere below colonoscopies and venereal diseases.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #9316
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Right now I think they're rated somewhere below colonoscopies and venereal diseases.
But lower than TWC support for TiVo's?
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #9317
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But lower than TWC support for TiVo's?
Okay, now that's really hitting below the belt.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:47 PM   #9318
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Okay, now that's really hitting below the belt.
OK, to get back on topic, is there any reason that there is no upgrade info on a 75 HR Premiere 4 to make it an XL4, other than a few random posts? There is plenty of info here on our Series 3's and I have all 3 of mine at 1TB, but the Premiere seems vague. TIVO wants $200, and you get the Glow Remote, but a 2TB drive is only about half that.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:14 AM   #9319
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OK, to get back on topic, is there any reason that there is no upgrade info on a 75 HR Premiere 4 to make it an XL4, other than a few random posts? There is plenty of info here on our Series 3's and I have all 3 of mine at 1TB, but the Premiere seems vague. TIVO wants $200, and you get the Glow Remote, but a 2TB drive is only about half that.
Well this is the sticky on drive upgrades in the Series 3 forum.

Go over to the Tivo Upgrade Center forum and check out the Premiere upgrade topic using jmfs.

Scott
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #9320
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I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to 2TB from an already upgraded 1TB Drive.

I didn't lose any shows either.

So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.

Anyway, I did this using Windows 7, on my laptop with a Startech USB 3.0 Dual 2.5/3.5in SATA Hard Drive Docking Station. (from Amazon: SATDOCK22U3S)

Also I used a non-AF drive: Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB Cache Internal Hard Drive (from Amazon: 0S02861)

I used the following software:
  • winmfs (beta build 9.3f)
  • iBored (1.1.10)

STEP 1

Start winmfs by right-clicking "Run as Administrator"
Go to Tools->MFSCopy

I Un-checked "Custom Linux Swap Size"
However I DID CHECK "No Optimized Partition Layout"

Click "Start" to start the copy. It took 5-6 hours for the copy to complete.
(Yay! USB 3.0)

After the copy finishes, You will see a dialog that says "You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?"

CLICK NO

Select the "View" Menu item and click "MFSInfo"

Note that there are 16 partitions with the last one listed as "Apple_Free"
We need to delete that last partition in Step 2.

Exit Winmfs and EJECT YOUR TIVO SOURCE DRIVE


STEP 2

Start iBored by right-clicking "Run as Administrator"

Select your "newly copied" tivo drive

iBored should start out on Block"0"

Go to block 16 (Either type "16" in the upper left text-panel or press CTRL-RightArrow 16 times)

in Block 16, click the "Template" tab

Make sure that "Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry" is selected in the combo box on the right. If it is not selected, make sure you select it (it's the first one)

In the Menu, Click "BlockView" -> "Make Writable"

We are now going to erase block 16!

Click the "Disk" Menu item and Select "Erase Blocks"

You will see a Specify Block Range Dialog
Mine had the Following:
  • Block Size: 512 (because I used a non-AF drive)
  • Start Block: 16 (The block we are on)
  • Block Count: [SOME HUGE NUMBER]

Change Block Count to "1"

Click OK

You will see a "Really Erase?" dialog. Click "Erase"
(NOTE: If you see a "write failed: writing is not enabled" dialog, then it means that you need to select BlockView->Make Writable)

BLOCK 16 should now be clear.

Now, move to block 15. (CTRL-LeftArrow)
Note that "blocks in partition map" is "16"
We need to change this value to "15" in blocks 1-15.

Lets do this by moving backwards.

For each block 15 to 1 do the following:
  • BlockView->Make Writable
  • Change "blocks in partition map" to 15
  • BlockView->Save Changes
  • CTRL-LeftArrow (to go to previous block)

ok. So now you are at block 1. Just to make sure that you changed all the entries, verify that "blocks in partition map" is "15" for blocks 1-15.

Exit iBored


STEP 3

Start WinMFS again (Right-Click "Run as Administrator")

Select Tools->MFSadd

You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (hopefully, you have Tivo Software version 11.0 on your tivo)

Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)

In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On

That's it.

You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you 318 HD hours or 2777 SD hours.

Cheers,
-Kevin

P.S.
I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (same Hitachi as listed above) using a similar method but replacing Step 3 with using JMFS to expand it, but WinMFS to supersize. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)
Since the TCD648 isn't recognized by jmfs for some reason as a TiVo drive, and it all has to be done with WinMFS, and since WinMFS's mfsadd will expand the 3rd MFS Media partition (which it created earlier), partition 15, into any extra space even though that space is currently marked as an Apple Free partition, is the hex editing step really necessary, or do you just need to be sure you've got version k of the TiVo software on the drive?
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #9321
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Since the TCD648 isn't recognized by jmfs for some reason as a TiVo drive, and it all has to be done with WinMFS, and since WinMFS's mfsadd will expand the 3rd MFS Media partition (which it created earlier), partition 15, into any extra space even though that space is currently marked as an Apple Free partition, is the hex editing step really necessary, or do you just need to be sure you've got version k of the TiVo software on the drive?
I tried it both ways and was successful in each case. The starting drive was a TiVo drive already upgraded to 1TB. Using iBored technique initially, then since I was waiting for caps for my power supply, did tried it again without iBored. Just WinMFS>MFScopy. Then close MFSCopy without expanding followed by MFSadd. (For some odd reason it would not expand the drive within MFSCopy just hang) Replaced my caps in the power supply and now have been on that drive for 2 to 3 months now without any problems. No booting or rebooting issues. My original drive was already supersized so did not fool with supersizing inside WinMFS. Also with MFScopy I did use optimize partition layout and did use 1024mb swap partition. My S3 OLED was already on version 11.0k.

So as far as my experience goes, don't need to do the hex editing as long as you are on version k.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #9322
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I tried it both ways and was successful in each case. The starting drive was a TiVo drive already upgraded to 1TB. Using iBored technique initially, then since I was waiting for caps for my power supply, did tried it again without iBored. Just WinMFS>MFScopy. Then close MFSCopy without expanding followed by MFSadd. (For some odd reason it would not expand the drive within MFSCopy just hang) Replaced my caps in the power supply and now have been on that drive for 2 to 3 months now without any problems. No booting or rebooting issues. My original drive was already supersized so did not fool with supersizing inside WinMFS. Also with MFScopy I did check optimize partition layout and did use 1024mb swap partition. My S3 OLED was already on version 11.0k.

So as far as my experience goes, don't need to do the hex editing as long as you are on version k.

So apparently the real secret is Vitamin K.

If WinMFS can do it all for a 648, then there's probably no need for jmfs on an HD, either.

Wish I knew why jmfs can see a 652 drive but not a 648 drive.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #9323
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I concur with all your statements.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #9324
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Well this is the sticky on drive upgrades in the Series 3 forum.

Go over to the Tivo Upgrade Center forum and check out the Premiere upgrade topic using jmfs.

Scott
I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.

Thank you.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:15 PM   #9325
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I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.

Thank you.
ALL Premieres are Series4. The "4" in the names "Premiere 4" and "Premiere XL4 (aka Premiere Elite)" is for the number of tuners. Plus, of course, they are digital cable only.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:54 PM   #9326
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I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.

Thank you.
Note I also used jmfs to upgrade my son's HD to a 2TB drive which so far is working well!

Scott
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:48 AM   #9327
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Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:11 AM   #9328
jmbach
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Originally Posted by Ebuddy View Post
Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.
Purists would say no. I would not. That being said there are many people who run this kind of drive without reported problems. The major concern has been about heat generation which seems to be a moot point since there has been nothing I have seen in the forums about actual heat issues causing problems.

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Last edited by jmbach : 01-29-2013 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:05 PM   #9329
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Originally Posted by Ebuddy View Post
Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.
It's an okay semi-permanent solution, which is about the best you can hope for in situations involving hard drives.

When you put the new image on, did you use MFS Live or WinMFS, and did you expand?
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:35 PM   #9330
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It's an okay semi-permanent solution, which is about the best you can hope for in situations involving hard drives.

When you put the new image on, did you use MFS Live or WinMFS, and did you expand?
I used WinMFS and I expanded. Everything looked just fine, even the slight increase in storage space. :-)
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