Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ - Page 3

c3 · 10-23-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus99

The Western Digital My Book Home Edition 1TB is verified to NOT work with 9.2J on a S3. It looks like WD really wants us to by the 500GB version.

Isn't it possible that something is wrong with the drive, cable, or the TiVo?

bkdtv · 10-23-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus99

The Western Digital My Book Home Edition 1TB is verified to NOT work with 9.2J on a S3. It looks like WD really wants us to by the 500GB version.

What eSATA cable did you use?

As indicated in FAQ #5 of the Non Verified section, many PC eSATA drives ship with cables that are not compatible with the Tivo.

nexus99 · 10-23-2007, 10:07 PM

I'm using the SIIG cable that most everyone here uses. The drive is verified to work with a PC via firewire, eSata (using my sig cable), and USB. I have not ruled out that there could be a problem with the Tivo yet though. I will be returning the My Book and getting an Antec MX1. I'll report back on how that goes.

bkdtv · 10-23-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexus99

I'm using the SIIG cable that most everyone here uses. The drive is verified to work with a PC via firewire, eSata (using my sig cable), and USB. I have not ruled out that there could be a problem with the Tivo yet though. I will be returning the My Book and getting an Antec MX1. I'll report back on how that goes.

Before you return it, could you try removing all drive partitions using your PC?

Open Computer Management under Control Panel -> Administrative Tools.

In Computer Management, select Storage -> Disk Management. Select the eSATA drive and choose delete volume. After you delete the volume, reboot, then remove the eSATA drive and try it again on the Tivo.

Let me know if that makes any difference.

nexus99 · 10-23-2007, 10:17 PM

I did that too. I blasted the partition and attempted to PnP as well as boot with the drive attached. No dice. I am thinking that it has to be something with the eSATA to SATA chipset in the My Book Home. I am pretty sure that the TIVO can't POST with the drive attached.

HDTiVo · 10-23-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkdtv

He probably meant that if the user ever "unmarried" the drive, they would be unable to add it again.

I suggest you write it up just that way so there is never any confusion down the road.

fred2 · 10-24-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Typo fixed, thanks.

I know those tools work on the main drive. But I was previously told that one could not backup recordings from one eSATA drive and restore it to another. If that is possible, please let me know and I will fix that.

I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....

found it, I think:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=369296

bkdtv · 10-24-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred2

I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....

found it, I think:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=369296

Thanks. I will remove that answer while I wait confirmation.

c3 · 10-24-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred2

I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....

found it, I think:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=369296

That's just copying the entire drive bit by bit. As far as the TiVo is concerned, nothing changed. You cannot:

1. Unplug drive A from TiVo.
2. Copy drive A to drive B.
3. Plug drive A back into TiVo.
4. Unplug drive A and plug in drive B. <<< This should NOT work.

dsabine · 10-24-2007, 08:00 AM

I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.

What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a CERTIFIED and RECOMMENDED DRIVE as listed in the forums. See link:

Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=350510

The Western Digital WD5000AVJS is intended for DVR use and certified for 24/7 use but will not work with the S3HD - See the links that I've included here!

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...80&language=en

http://www.wdc.com/en/library/ce/2879-701220.pdf

I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.

Before anyone tries to flame and say that I can use a non-recommended drive by using the MFSLive, DON'T. It's ridiculous because I now have to void a warranty if I want to upgrade by opening the case so that I can marry drives. The capability is there to use the eSata port to use more than a pretty package WD drive that Tivo has partnered to sell. If the drive I have is made for DVR's as it is and is certified by WD then my S3HD should recognize and format.

Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll never see on a Tivo.

JohnBrowning · 10-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a CERTIFIED and RECOMMENDED DRIVE as listed in the forums.

To think that anything recommended on a forum would necessarily be certified by anyone is simply ludicrous!!!

HDTiVo · 10-24-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBrowning

To think that anything recommended on a forum would necessarily be certified by anyone is simply ludicrous!!!

Yeah, to confuse the forum with TiVo is a mistake. Besides, KS62 only worked with S3, it was obviously not there for THD. Plus to a great extent eSata discussion here is about MFS style efforts as well as PnP.

However, expecting that TiVo allow other drives to be married after a warning, as they do with the S3, is reasonable.

naclone · 10-24-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3.

sometimes, you get what you pay for.

look, you were able to get just about everything i paid $800 dollars for last year by outlaying only $300. non-verified drive support or not, you made out pretty good.

mappler · 10-24-2007, 09:53 AM

I'm having trouble understanding some of the sentiment regarding the cost of the new drive. (I understand the desire to add more space than 500gb)

It seems to me the TiVo solution for a 500gb external drive is a good price. Is there something here I am missing in the math? (Note: all numbers from "thenerds.net" for no reason other than that's what I picked)

Seagate DB35 500gb drive: $138.65
Antex MX-1 Enclosure: $48.65
SIIG cable: $10.20
Total: $197.50

TiVo certified solution: $199.99

Cost difference: $2.49 (assuming equal shipping costs?)

Obviously your choice of storage space expansion is limited with this solution, but from a price standpoint, isn't this a total wash?

-Matt

mute · 10-24-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mappler

I'm having trouble understanding some of the sentiment regarding the cost of the new drive. (I understand the desire to add more space than 500gb)

It seems to me the TiVo solution for a 500gb external drive is a good price. Is there something here I am missing in the math? (Note: all numbers from "thenerds.net" for no reason other than that's what I picked)

Seagate DB35 500gb drive: $138.65
Antex MX-1 Enclosure: $48.65
SIIG cable: $10.20
Total: $197.50

TiVo certified solution: $199.99

Cost difference: $2.49 (assuming equal shipping costs?)

Obviously your choice of storage space expansion is limited with this solution, but from a price standpoint, isn't this a total wash?

-Matt

I scored my 750gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.

Talsarris · 10-24-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mute

I scored my 75gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.

Why do people quote prices with GCs as being a better deal? While your deal overall is better because of the larger HDD, it isn't cheaper, you spent $20 over that amount.

richsadams · 10-24-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.

What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a CERTIFIED and RECOMMENDED DRIVE as listed in the forums. See link:

Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=350510

The Western Digital WD5000AVJS is intended for DVR use and certified for 24/7 use but will not work with the S3HD - See the links that I've included here!

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...80&language=en

http://www.wdc.com/en/library/ce/2879-701220.pdf

I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.

Before anyone tries to flame and say that I can use a non-recommended drive by using the MFSLive, DON'T. It's ridiculous because I now have to void a warranty if I want to upgrade by opening the case so that I can marry drives. The capability is there to use the eSata port to use more than a pretty package WD drive that Tivo has partnered to sell. If the drive I have is made for DVR's as it is and is certified by WD then my S3HD should recognize and format.

Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll never see on a Tivo.

Begging not to be flamed for a rant? Here’s hoping that folks will be kind.

Your frustration is understandable, but misplaced IMHO.

First and foremost, the drive you purchase was neither “certified nor recommended” by TiVo, end of story. There are a lot of us here that have been tweaking, modding and hacking TiVo for many years. None of us expect what we’ve done to work forever (if at all sometimes

) but historically TiVo has "accommodated" us as they have this time. The explanation given by TiVo is exactly what we'd hoped for. It could have easily gone the other way, infuriating a lot more long-time customers w/modified S3’s.

TiVo’s decisions for expansion options on the S3 and the THD were based on common sense and more importantly solid business practices; being able to offer an expansion option and support in the most cost-effective manner.

We’re going to replace our S2’s with THD’s and I wish they’d do whatever I dream up as well, but for now they won’t and I’m not going to cry about it.

If you want to ensure your warranty stays intact and want more HDD space add the approved eSATA drive to your THD. Or have some patience because I suspect there will be a work around sooner than later. Or return it, get an S3 and use the drive you have. Or enjoy MythTV. (FYI, I’ve used it and it doesn’t hold a candle to TiVo.)

So you can beat up on the folks on this forum for their creativity, but TiVo has lived up to its word as far as I can see.

My two cents.

mute · 10-24-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talsarris

Why do people quote prices with GCs as being a better deal? While your deal overall is better because of the larger HDD, it isn't cheaper, you spent $20 over that amount.

It was a $20 gc. What's a better deal? Spending:

$199 for a 500gb drive in eSATA enclosure
$210 for a 750gb drive in eSATA enclosure?

If you rolled into best buy and spent $40 on an MX-1 and picked up the SIIG cable and 750gb drive which is available all over the net at $160, you're getting 50% more storage for $11 more.. you do the math.

The My DVR drive is indeed sanctioned by tivo, but it's not a good deal from the $/gb perspective.

bkdtv · 10-24-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.

What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a CERTIFIED and RECOMMENDED DRIVE as listed in the forums. See link:

Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=350510

You are confusing manufacturer certified bare drive with "TiVo cerified" eSATA solution.

Manufacturers market those bare drives for DVR use, but they can still fail if you stick them in the wrong enclosure. The Western Digital My DVR Expander is TiVo's verified eSATA solution with drive, enclosure, and cable.

The previous FAQ (#32 and #37) listed the Western Digital My DVR Expander as a recommended drive. That was and still is the only full eSATA solution -- with drive, enclosure, and cable -- that is sold specifically for use with DVRs. I originally added that enclosure to FAQ #37 because of that fact, and because a member on AVS noticed something very interesting -- the My DVR Expander they received had a sticker which actually mentioned Tivo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.

That was your mistake.

The previous FAQ for unofficial eSATA expansion in the 8.x software made it very clear that (1) Tivo did not officially support eSATA expansion, and (2) the kickstart62 method to enable eSATA did not work in the TivoHD. In fact, it went one step further and recommended that TivoHD users wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Previous_eSATA_FAQ

Does this method work on the TivoHD?

No. However, with the TivoHD software v8.1.7c2 released September 5th, it is now possible to enable eSATA with an alternative method. This alternative method is more complicated and requires that you to remove the original drive from the TivoHD.

I recommend that TivoHD owners wait for Tivo to officially support eSATA expansion.

Is eSATA expansion officially supported by Tivo? Not yet. But it works very well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsabine

Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll never see on a Tivo

Unless all you watch is local channels, MythTV cannot begin to compare to the functionality of a Tivo. MythTV does not -- and never will -- support CableCards, hence it cannot directly support encrypted high-definition channels. MythTV doesn't work with copy-protected high-definition recordings at all.

mooneydriver · 10-24-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Cifranci

I just got 9.2.J1 on my Tivo Series 3 last night. I have a internal 750GB Seagate DB35 that I had upgraded to before even powering on my Series 3 for the first time back in Jan. Then later using MFSLive CD I added another Seagate 750GB DB35 in a Antec MX-1 eSata enclosure (for a total of 1.5TB).

I am happy to report that after getting 9.2j last night and rebooting my eSata config is still working fine.

The process of attaching an eSATA drive to an already-upgraded S3 is a mystery to me. The MFSLive web site does not have clear instructions. I looked at the FAQ under the "III. Non-Verified Drives" section, and the process described there didn't make much sense to me. Step 2 says "shut down windows and attach original tivo drive and your new eSATA drive." What am I missing here? Does it mean the "original" 250 GB drive, or the already-upgraded 500/750/1000 GB drive?

Are there others besides George Cifranci who has successfully married an eSATA drive to an upgraded S3? sfhub, perhaps?

mute · 10-24-2007, 11:56 AM

The thing that bums me out about the official eSATA solution is this.

I'm over being bitter about TiVo deciding that THD and S3 owners don't get the same feature set. I've been trying to figure out what the hell they are doing with the S3 anyway, since you don't see them in stores or advertised much. I was on the fence when I made my purchase, but I figured that the S3 was on it's way out. I bought the THD and don't regret it (that much yet). Even if it's not the "enthusiasts" model, even if it's ugly, and even if it's not up to par with the rest of the equipment I have in my system $$$-wise. At any rate I'm rambling.

As I see it, TiVo had one chance to get the eSATA solution right. They rolled out a 500gb drive that gives what, 60 hours of HD and some large amount of SD hours. This is the only option for THD owners, and I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the THD is selling circles around the S3.

So THD owners who want their warranties or are non technical are stuck with 70 hours of HD content. Forever.

But wait! I'm sure TiVo will come out with a larger capacity more expensive unit in a couple months, and all those THD owners will have the privilege of upgrading if they want to! It'll only cost you an additional $300 for 750gb or $400 for 1tb, and the best part is you get to lose all of your shows during the upgrade process!

I get the whole partnership with WD thing. We all saw it coming, it makes perfect business sense. Why they chose not to roll out a couple models to give users the ability to make their upgrade decisions based on their needs rather than locking them into a single option is beyond me.

So those of us who bought external non supported eSATA drives for their THD are boned, fair enough we took our chance. It's not as though their useless, we can hack our units and forgo the warranty.

Who I really feel sorry for are the people who are going to buy the 500gb My DVR drives, who will love their tivos but be constantly yearning for more than 80 hours of HD content, and are going to get burned by the "early adopter" thing that TiVo seems to be so good at lately.

richsadams · 10-24-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mute

Who I really feel sorry for are the people who are going to buy the 500gb My DVR drives, who will love their tivos but be constantly yearning for more than 80 hours of HD content, and are going to get burned by the "early adopter" thing that TiVo seems to be so good at lately.

All good points and couldn't agree more with the last one. But with computer equipment...which is what TiVo is really...that's to be expected I'm afraid.

We didn't pay full boat for our S3, but close to and if we had waited until now the price for the same thing (more or less) would be much less. I'm sure there will be more options...for less...in the months to come. I also think there will be other solutions pretty soon if the creative folks here have anything to do with it.

George Cifranci · 10-24-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooneydriver

The process of attaching an eSATA drive to an already-upgraded S3 is a mystery to me. The MFSLive web site does not have clear instructions. I looked at the FAQ under the "III. Non-Verified Drives" section, and the process described there didn't make much sense to me. Step 2 says "shut down windows and attach original tivo drive and your new eSATA drive." What am I missing here? Does it mean the "original" 250 GB drive, or the already-upgraded 500/750/1000 GB drive?

Are there others besides George Cifranci who has successfully married an eSATA drive to an upgraded S3? sfhub, perhaps?

No, you do not use the original 250GB drive. You use the current internal drive in your Series 3. You connect both your new eSata drive and the internal Series 3 drive to a PC and load the MFSTools CD and run that command. Here is an entry in thread I posted discussing the details of what I did.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...58#post5279858

There are a number of others that have done this as well.

mooneydriver · 10-24-2007, 03:40 PM

Great -- thanks, George! I must have missed the thread where your detailed instructions were posted (too many threads on this topic these days!)

Fofer · 10-24-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Cifranci

No, you do not use the original 250GB drive. You use the current internal drive in your Series 3. You connect both your new eSata drive and the internal Series 3 drive to a PC and load the MFSTools CD and run that command. Here is an entry in thread I posted discussing the details of what I did.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...58#post5279858

There are a number of others that have done this as well.

Thanks for this post, George. I bought a 750 GB drive that's now internal in my Series 3 and it's been working well for awhile now. I've been curious to know how to add an eSATA drive to it externally... and it sounds like your tip is the way to do it, without losing any of my exisiting recordings.

Sounds like aside from the hassle of removing the hardware from the TiVo and putting it into the PC and then back into the TiVo, that it doesn't take that much time at all. I was afraid I'd have to back up all the recordings or something.

mvnuenen · 10-24-2007, 04:09 PM

Hey bkdtv... I'm a bit surprised I'm going to be the first (I think), but, a BIG THANKS for the nice overview and the work you put into it!

Fab2004 · 10-24-2007, 04:22 PM

I've been trying to find the 750gb for $160 but don't seem to find it. Can you point me to some seller w/ that price?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mute

It was a $20 gc. What's a better deal? Spending:

$199 for a 500gb drive in eSATA enclosure
$210 for a 750gb drive in eSATA enclosure?

If you rolled into best buy and spent $40 on an MX-1 and picked up the SIIG cable and 750gb drive which is available all over the net at $160, you're getting 50% more storage for $11 more.. you do the math.

The My DVR drive is indeed sanctioned by tivo, but it's not a good deal from the $/gb perspective.

mappler · 10-24-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mute

I scored my 750gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.

Lowest price on Pricegrabber for the 750gb DB5 is $238.
Lowest price on Pricegrabber for the Antec MX-1 is $48.

That looks like a combined $286 plus $10 the SIIG cable (all assuming shipping charges are equal, but I"m taking lowest prices from multiple stores).

That looks like it is $296, or $1 cheaper than buying it (and likely saving shipping) from the single retailer I picked at random earlier. The total is 50% more for 50% ore storage space....

I'd love to know where to get this cheaper!!!

mute · 10-24-2007, 05:18 PM

Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.

So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows.

I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.

At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.

Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.

Fab2004 · 10-24-2007, 05:58 PM

So $199 + s/h for 500gb is a pretty good value for a DVR certified drive after all.
I wonder if people had much luck with non DVR certified drives -- I replaced my Series1 internal drive with a generic one in 2003 and it's still going.

I'm wondering (apart from the DVR certified list) which drive would be a good option noise-wise, any ideas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mute

Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.

So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows.

I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.

At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.

Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.