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Old 07-30-2012, 01:55 AM   #8821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ray View Post
No external drive or anything extra like that.

The Tivo customer support (more than one person) says it is likely the hard drive. My impression was that it is not, but Tivo people said it probably is.

It pauses frequently, doing anything. If we are in the menus, then it will pause for about three seconds, then work for three seconds, then pause.

I also did the hard drive test, where we do the pause and then 54 at startup. The SMART test failed three of the four tests at the beginning; it only passed the initialization. I tried to run the overnight test (and other tests) and it was unable to do that (those).




Sorry about being in the Series 3 forum. I will try to keep my further replies in this forum brief.

No lifetime subscription.

We could return the device to Tivo for repair but apparently it will cost as much as buying a new one and if we buy a new one we probably (such as if we buy it from Amazon) do not need to pay for shipping.
If it has trouble with KickStart 54, it's probably the drive, but what you could do is shut down the TiVo, open it up, take out the drive (you can probably leave it connected to the drive bracket if it's like older model TiVos), take the model number and search for it on WD's website, then look to the left on the results page, where it says download, click there, and download an image for a bootable cd with the WD diagnostic software on it, burn it as an image to a cd-r, then shut down the computer.

Disconnect the hard drive inside the computer, turn it back on and go into the BIOS setup and make sure the computer is set to boot from a cd before trying to boot from a hard drive.

Also make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.

Try booting with the WD cd you just made to make sure it will, then shut down, connect the TiVo drive in place of the computer's drive and boot with the WD cd, then run first the short test, then the long test on the drive.

If it finds a few bad sectors it might be able to re-assign those numbers to some unused sectors and save the drive, although I'd consider it to be on borrowed time from that point on.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:28 PM   #8822
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Quote:
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Does that Premiere have a product lifetime subscription?
If so, then you need to get hold of another hard drive with the Premiere software on it.
I would recommend trying ddrescue, instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
You'll have to perform a clear and delete everything upon initial boot in order to make the transplanted hard drive work properly.
That is one reason why I would recommend ddrescue.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #8823
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A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product...82E16822148912 and it looks promising.

Any advice or other cavaets?
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #8824
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A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product...82E16822148912 and it looks promising.

Any advice or other cavaets?

Here's a link to what you're talking about that should actually work

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148912


I don't know anything about that drive, good or bad.


As for the drive you're looking to replace, how do you know it's gone bad and what brand and model is it?
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #8825
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A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product...82E16822148912 and it looks promising.

Any advice or other cavaets?
Yes. This is the main reason to have your TiVo on a UPS, so you should get one of those too.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #8826
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I replaced a Seagate Pipeline ST31000533CS.

Given the Olympics are this week, I may need to drive to Micro Center instead of waiting/paying for Newegg to deliver. I know to avoid modern WD "Green" drives. I was thinking of picking up a Deskstar, but I'm curious if the 4k sectors on modern ones will be an issue or not.

I appreciate the quick answers. (I'd like to be back up and running with UPS and a new drive before the Women's Soccer finals for a happy family viewing.)
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:39 PM   #8827
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Replacing a replacement drive

I upgraded my THD a few years back with a 1TB drive, which died last summer. It was still under warranty so it was replaced but that drive is now failing. I bought a WD Green 1TB drive. My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #8828
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My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?
I tried this with seeming success when I upgraded my own a month ago. It *SEEMED* to work, but then I had this power flicker so I don't have a reliable set of data to go on.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #8829
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As for the drive you're looking to replace, how do you know it's gone bad and what brand and model is it?
I mentioned the model, but forgot to mention that I'm seeing old programs pause/flicker/etc., AND that when I ran the kickstart-54 SMART tests I got "Error 7".
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #8830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
I bought a WD Green 1TB drive.

My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?
I don't know about making a back up. But I have, successfully, done the *dd copy operation on several TiVo drives.
There are other solutions for copying data that may be easier.

Note: I use dd copy because that is what I used, back in the day, the first time. And, I am comfortable with doing that procedure to bit copy the raw data from one drive to another.
And, it's worked every time.


*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #8831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danmcd View Post
I replaced a Seagate Pipeline ST31000533CS.

Given the Olympics are this week, I may need to drive to Micro Center instead of waiting/paying for Newegg to deliver. I know to avoid modern WD "Green" drives. I was thinking of picking up a Deskstar, but I'm curious if the 4k sectors on modern ones will be an issue or not.

I appreciate the quick answers. (I'd like to be back up and running with UPS and a new drive before the Women's Soccer finals for a happy family viewing.)
As long as you run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, a WD Green might be a good choice.

I'm using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD.

There have been reports of sucess with the WD20EARS.

I think people have used the WD20EURS, but I can't swear to it.

You may have to dig through the jmfs Premiere thread and the jmfs on an S3 HD thread to see who's had success with which drives.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #8832
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As long as you run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, a WD Green might be a good choice.

I'm using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD.

There have been reports of sucess with the WD20EARS.

I think people have used the WD20EURS, but I can't swear to it.

You may have to dig through the jmfs Premiere thread and the jmfs on an S3 HD thread to see who's had success with which drives.
I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #8833
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I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all
648, 652, or 658?

Using all 2TB?
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:38 AM   #8834
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I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all
Ditto for me. I've had a WD20EURS running in my TiVo HD (TCD652160) for a couple months now with no issues (link). I have not messed around with any of the 4k alignment techniques though.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:48 AM   #8835
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Have any of you guys running Advanced Format drives (e.g., WD20EURS) reached the point where your drive is full and starts deleting shows? I suspect you have to run past that point before you really know if your drive is a "success" story.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #8836
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You guys both are right. It is indeed wdidle3.exe that disables IntelliPark. Once disabled, I can successfully reboot both HD and S3.

The only issue with wdidle3.exe is that it needs to run from DOS. Essentially, the steps are:

- Create bootable CD-ROM (or floppy drive, if you have it) with wdidle3.exe on it

- Connect "bad" WD drive to SATA. Ensure it is not in RAID or AHCI, but rather in EIDE Compatible mode. This is needed so older DOS can detect the drive.

- Boot from from above CD/floppy and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should say that it has been disabled.

- Remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-boot" problem.

Below is the link to bootable CD that I created with wdidle3.exe on it. When at DOS prompt, change to drive letter R: and access wdidle3.exe from there.

http://tiny.cc/o7Lvr

-
I'm trying to download this file, but the URL must be changed. I got a similar situation. Using win XP home, SP3 and WD15EARS, I managed to get XP to recognize 1.5TB. Have the jumper on 5 & 6 . Winmsf also recognised the 1.5 TB capacity. Copied over a 240xx.tbk file on it and when asked to expend the drive I said yes. Put the drive into the Tivo, had to go thru setup, download etc, and it said had hardware problems. In the system info did not have the Tivo numbers and had only 90 hrs capacity. I did a "clear and erase everything, went thru he entire setup thing, and still it only says 90 hrs. It did come up with the TIVO #s. I was hoping it will adjust the hrs available, but after 3 server downloads, it didn't change.
I was hoping running that file on the drive maybe would help. I have not yet recorded on it. Thanks for your help.

P.S. A couple of days passed since the above posting. I got some bad news. The drive keeps on rebooting. every 5 to 10 min it reboots. I also have the same problem with a Seagate ST31500541AS drive. It went into a 540 series S2 Tivo. These are 2 different drives and have the same problem. I sure could use some great help. I get my weeping towel

Last edited by antalo : 08-12-2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason: New info
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:45 PM   #8837
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I'm trying to download this file, but the URL must be changed. I got a similar situation. Using win XP home, SP3 and WD15EARS, I managed to get XP to recognize 1.5TB. Have the jumper on 5 & 6 . Winmsf also recognised the 1.5 TB capacity. Copied over a 240xx.tbk file on it and when asked to expend the drive I said yes. Put the drive into the Tivo, had to go thru setup, download etc, and it said had hardware problems. In the system info did not have the Tivo numbers and had only 90 hrs capacity. I did a "clear and erase everything, went thru he entire setup thing, and still it only says 90 hrs. It did come up with the TIVO #s. I was hoping it will adjust the hrs available, but after 3 server downloads, it didn't change.
I was hoping running that file on the drive maybe would help. I have not yet recorded on it. Thanks for your help.
Don't know about your other problems but try this link for a bootable cd image that you have to burn as an image.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/wdidle3.iso


Which version of the TiVo software does the system info page say you have?

(WinMFS may also give that info)
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:07 PM   #8838
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648, 652, or 658?

Using all 2TB?
652 yes using all 2TB, of course I have not filled it up yet.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #8839
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652 yes using all 2TB, of course I have not filled it up yet.
jmfs?
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #8840
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This weekend will mark one month since I upgraded my OLED Series 3 with a WD20EURS. Everything is still functioning as it's supposed to and there have been no reboot issues. As far as the drive filling up, as I type this it has 469 suggestions recorded and is removing shows from the recently deleted folder regularly. I'm guessing that the whole of the drive has been used by now, but mostly for suggestions, which of course are recorded and deleted as the Tivo software sees fit.

There is one negative thing I've noticed consistently that I would guess is due to the advanced format drive. Fairly often the user interface (loading menus and lists) will be more sluggish than it was with my old 1TB non-AF drive. Sometimes it's a little slower, sometimes a lot slower and sometimes it seems about normal. I've experienced at least one instance where it took more than 10 seconds for the Now Playing List to fully update/populate.

Strangely, even the response of the OLED display seems a bit more sluggish when compared to how it was with the old 1TB non-AF drive. At times it can take several seconds (5-10 is a rough estimate of the slowest I've seen) for the title of a show to appear on the OLED display once a scheduled recording begins. This is just a delay with the display though, as all recordings seem to start and end on time.

At this point I wouldn't advise against using an advanced format drive, but based on my experience so far, people who would be bothered by a more sluggish user interface may wish to avoid them for that reason.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #8841
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jmfs?
JMFS to copy the original drive got me 288 Hrs of HD
WinMFS to Supersize and gain the extra 30 Hours of HD
WDidle3 to get me out of stuck mode.
Been running now for over a month with no issues and has had several reboots due to power failure.

I really need to get a new UPS for that set.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #8842
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Don't know about your other problems but try this link for a bootable cd image that you have to burn as an image.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/wdidle3.iso


Which version of the TiVo software does the system info page say you have?

(WinMFS may also give that info)
Thanks for your reply. I figured out my problem. RUSTY It'been a long time I replaced a hard dr. I did so me reading heree in the forum and I found that wdidle3 file on the WD website. I forgot to do the "MFSadd" thing and it expended my dry all the way. The Tivo now says I have upto 1949 hrs. Not bad. I think I re-did the drive at least 4 X. But finally I got it right.

The software version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140 It's a 240 series S2 box.

I'm not in HD recording yet, and I can't afford all that $$ Tivo want to collect.

I just orderd a WD20EARX drive from Newegg, $100.- shipped. I posted it elsewhere in the forum. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136891 $20 off w/ promo code EMCNBNC37, end 8/13 I looked it up again.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:46 AM   #8843
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Thanks for your reply. I figured out my problem. RUSTY It'been a long time I replaced a hard dr. I did so me reading heree in the forum and I found that wdidle3 file on the WD website. I forgot to do the "MFSadd" thing and it expended my dry all the way. The Tivo now says I have upto 1949 hrs. Not bad. I think I re-did the drive at least 4 X. But finally I got it right.

The software version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140 It's a 240 series S2 box.

I'm not in HD recording yet, and I can't afford all that $$ Tivo want to collect.

I just orderd a WD20EARX drive from Newegg, $100.- shipped. I posted it elsewhere in the forum. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136891 $20 off w/ promo code EMCNBNC37, end 8/13 I looked it up again.
You're using a 1.5TB drive in an S2?

Successfully?

And you're planning to use a 2TB in it?

Which adapter are you using?
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:12 AM   #8844
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You're using a 1.5TB drive in an S2?

Successfully?

And you're planning to use a 2TB in it?

Which adapter are you using?
Sofar so good ! I haven't tried it out yet, but it is up and running. I'm getting a OTA digital to analog converter. The adapter I'm using is an "old" one. ot them (2) a long time ago. The only markings I see is WLXKJ--8638 (the 8 could be a "B") above the SATA connector. It also has a jumper in he corner opposite the power connector.
The major problem is getting the pc to recognize the drive. I got it connected to the IDE 2 master cable. I don't know how many if the drive times I turned on the pc and it came up with all kinds of different drive IDs. I think it may help if the drive had some DOS or Windows formatting on it. With this drive I've been messing with for a long time, so I'm not sure what condition it was in. Finally it came up with the correct model #. I also use winmsf 1.3f I believe. The latest version. Several times it came up with 90GB, 100GB . It also depended on the jumper setting. First I has in on 7 & 8, than OFF, and after some reading now it is on 5 & 6. Also WinMSF had a little problem identifying the drive, but when DOS or Windows recognized it, it also did. I also forgot the do a "MFS add". Now I don't know how Tivo came up with up to 1949 hrs on a 1.5TB drive. WinMFS also asks when .expending if I want to limit it to 1 TB. I said NO and it added the entire capacity. Supposedly it can handle up to 2TB drives.

Don't tell me I did something unusual ! My Linux knowledge is zilch, so I depend mostly on WinMfs. I need to figure out how I can add FTA receiver codes to the TIvo so it can control them. I know there is a file, but I'm too chicken to try it, afraid to mess up the Tivo programming.

I also managed to setup a Seagate 1.5 TB drive for a 540 series S2 Tivo. Had a real hard time to get DOS/Win to recognize it. This drive was also messed with before. The best it did for a long time is 1 TB capacity with a different model #. I don't know what I finally did to get the correct model recognized. After that it was a piece of cake.
Maybe someone should write a how-to about this. I'm too old and forgetful to do it. If you think it is worth it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:55 AM   #8845
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Sofar so good ! I haven't tried it out yet, but it is up and running. I'm getting a OTA digital to analog converter. The adapter I'm using is an "old" one. ot them (2) a long time ago. The only markings I see is WLXKJ--8638 (the 8 could be a "B") above the SATA connector. It also has a jumper in he corner opposite the power connector.
The major problem is getting the pc to recognize the drive. I got it connected to the IDE 2 master cable. I don't know how many if the drive times I turned on the pc and it came up with all kinds of different drive IDs. I think it may help if the drive had some DOS or Windows formatting on it. With this drive I've been messing with for a long time, so I'm not sure what condition it was in. Finally it came up with the correct model #. I also use winmsf 1.3f I believe. The latest version. Several times it came up with 90GB, 100GB . It also depended on the jumper setting. First I has in on 7 & 8, than OFF, and after some reading now it is on 5 & 6. Also WinMSF had a little problem identifying the drive, but when DOS or Windows recognized it, it also did. I also forgot the do a "MFS add". Now I don't know how Tivo came up with up to 1949 hrs on a 1.5TB drive. WinMFS also asks when .expending if I want to limit it to 1 TB. I said NO and it added the entire capacity. Supposedly it can handle up to 2TB drives.

Don't tell me I did something unusual ! My Linux knowledge is zilch, so I depend mostly on WinMfs. I need to figure out how I can add FTA receiver codes to the TIvo so it can control them. I know there is a file, but I'm too chicken to try it, afraid to mess up the Tivo programming.

I also managed to setup a Seagate 1.5 TB drive for a 540 series S2 Tivo. Had a real hard time to get DOS/Win to recognize it. This drive was also messed with before. The best it did for a long time is 1 TB capacity with a different model #. I don't know what I finally did to get the correct model recognized. After that it was a piece of cake.
Maybe someone should write a how-to about this. I'm too old and forgetful to do it. If you think it is worth it.
Latest MFS Live is 1.4

Those SATA/IDE adapters of yours are the standard JMicron chipset based adapters you get from wowparts and elsewhere.

Are you connecting the drives to SATA ports on the computer motherboard or using the adapters to connect them to the IDE controller(s)?

It's been previously thought that Series 2 TiVos were limited to drives of 1.2 base10 Terabytes (or 1 base2 Terabyte, which is something like a TiBiByte or something silly looking).

Generally if one doesn't get the drive's proper brand/model number during the computer boot process or CMOS screen, one gets a jumbled version of it, where characters are missing or shifted by one letter or number or something like that and this either means the motherboard or the drive is going bad, or you don't have that data cable completely properly seated at both ends. Adding a SATA/IDE adapter makes that even more likely.

Or it means the IDE/PATA cable is going bad. Those newer 80 conductor ones won't put up with as much flexing and plugging and unplugging as the older ones.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #8846
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Originally Posted by S3-2501 View Post
This weekend will mark one month since I upgraded my OLED Series 3 with a WD20EURS. Everything is still functioning as it's supposed to and there have been no reboot issues. As far as the drive filling up, as I type this it has 469 suggestions recorded and is removing shows from the recently deleted folder regularly. I'm guessing that the whole of the drive has been used by now, but mostly for suggestions, which of course are recorded and deleted as the Tivo software sees fit.

There is one negative thing I've noticed consistently that I would guess is due to the advanced format drive. Fairly often the user interface (loading menus and lists) will be more sluggish than it was with my old 1TB non-AF drive. Sometimes it's a little slower, sometimes a lot slower and sometimes it seems about normal. I've experienced at least one instance where it took more than 10 seconds for the Now Playing List to fully update/populate.

Strangely, even the response of the OLED display seems a bit more sluggish when compared to how it was with the old 1TB non-AF drive. At times it can take several seconds (5-10 is a rough estimate of the slowest I've seen) for the title of a show to appear on the OLED display once a scheduled recording begins. This is just a delay with the display though, as all recordings seem to start and end on time.

At this point I wouldn't advise against using an advanced format drive, but based on my experience so far, people who would be bothered by a more sluggish user interface may wish to avoid them for that reason.
I installed the same drive in my S3 and other than the slow response right after starting up for the first time (lasted for about 30 minutes), I've noticed no sluggishness. I think the only difference in our installations is that I did not run wdidle. No idea if that would make a difference?
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:50 PM   #8847
mrelectron
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My experience with 2TB AF drive

Greetings

Being my first post here, I would like to start by thanking the many people that have contributed to this forum and bringing the collective TiVo knowledge forward.
I will attempt to contribute what I can.

Recently I too have upgraded my OLED Series 3 (648250B) unit from a 1TB to a 2TB using the WD20EURS drive thanks to Lussie’s and others instructions. This upgrade was performed about 3 weeks ago and went without one single issue.

Regarding the Advanced Format (AF) drive usage, my experiences are similar to what Hummingbird_ 206 reported above except I did check the drive using the wdidle utility before installation and the utility reported the Intellipark feature was already off.

I have not made many recordings to the disk yet (less than 10) but I wanted to comment regarding S3-2501’s comment above about “sluggish menus” and the possible association using AF drives.
I have experienced a sluggish menu access once in my 3-week experience and only for a few moments. I did find when this sluggishness was occurring the TiVo unit was actually performing some Garbage Collection and Indexing chores which may have contributed to this sluggishness menu access.

Other than that, my experience with this AF drive has been very positive and has given me the confidence to purchase a second WD20EURS drive as a spare for later on.

Again thanks to all that contribute here.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:05 PM   #8848
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Big Grin

Wow, you guys are awesome!!

Huge thank you to Lussie, S3-2501 and Hummingbird_206!

This morning I was able to upgrade my S3 Tivo Hd with OLED display from a 1TB drive to a 2TB drive.

I used the WD20EARX which is an AF drive. I did have to use WDIDLE3 on the drive. I tried without, but, it hung at the Welcome Powering Up screen.

I had some trouble with the Ibored part, but once I read S3-2510's comments I figured it out.
I also ended up with 213 hours at first, just like Hummingbird, but then just went back and redid the MFSAdd making sure to say NO.
I think the hardest part for me was the whole WDIDLE3 part but I was able to find an ISO and excellent instructions here http://www.jzab.de/content/wdidle-bootcd

So, as of right now I have 318 hours HD of recording space, plus, all of my recordings intact! Time to update my sig...
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:19 PM   #8849
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Sorry for the tangential question, I know it isn't directly related to drive upgrades.

I know that if you use a drive from one TiVo in another, you can't actually watch the recordings.

But it won't actually harm the existing recordings, will it? Can I even do a 'daily call' when in the "wrong" TiVo and have recordings that I then hope to play back on the original machine? (I know daily call isn't directly related to recordings, but who knows, there could be some really weird checks in there..)

Semi-longer version: I have an old dead OLED S3, and finally got another for parts (to hopefully revive it). It came without a hard drive, but supposedly powered up in that state (up until where it needs a hard drive obviously). So I was thinking of putting in the orig S3's orig small hard drive, booting it, and doing a daily call. (I'm 99% positive it has no service, but it'd be interesting to check.)

Then after I swap motherboards or power supplies one direction, then I'll put it all back together and hopefully it'll all "just work". But I wanted to "try out" the new one with an orig hard drive, without messing anything up on it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:00 PM   #8850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Sorry for the tangential question, I know it isn't directly related to drive upgrades.

I know that if you use a drive from one TiVo in another, you can't actually watch the recordings.

But it won't actually harm the existing recordings, will it? Can I even do a 'daily call' when in the "wrong" TiVo and have recordings that I then hope to play back on the original machine? (I know daily call isn't directly related to recordings, but who knows, there could be some really weird checks in there..)

Semi-longer version: I have an old dead OLED S3, and finally got another for parts (to hopefully revive it). It came without a hard drive, but supposedly powered up in that state (up until where it needs a hard drive obviously). So I was thinking of putting in the orig S3's orig small hard drive, booting it, and doing a daily call. (I'm 99% positive it has no service, but it'd be interesting to check.)

Then after I swap motherboards or power supplies one direction, then I'll put it all back together and hopefully it'll all "just work". But I wanted to "try out" the new one with an orig hard drive, without messing anything up on it.
Have you got any spare hard drives lying around?

If you take a hard drive out of one TiVo and put it in another of the same model, it will still become apparent during the boot process that the drive expected to be attached to a motherboard with a different TiVo Service Number from the one the second motherboard has, and the first thing it's going to want to do is fix that.

If you then put it back into the first TiVo, it'll want to "fix that" again.

I hold out little, if any, hope that your recordings will survive.

Better to get another hard drive at least 250GB in size and put an 648 image on that for test purposes.

Are either of these machines "lifetimed"?

If not, when either calls in, the first thing they'll find out is that they aren't subscribed.
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