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Old 05-03-2012, 08:39 PM   #8611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
So I might have to replace my Tivo S3 (original with the OLEDs on the front) drive.

What 1TB drives these days are compatible still with the original S3?

Will a Western Digital WD10EADS work?

It's been years since I had to research it and the thread doesn't make it too obvious as to which are good in the HD vs the orignal S3.

Any help is appreciated.

Should have bought a 2nd backup drive years ago.....

EDIT: Grabbed a 1TB from dvr_dude on ebay. Will see what model it is once I get it. Hopefully I can recover the system info from the current drive. Would hate to redo my season passes. I can live with the lost recordings...
I've got a 20EADS working just fine in an S3 HD.

Wish I could get my hands on about a dozen more brand new full retail box ones at a decent price, or even a mildly indecent one.

edited to add: If you use the EADS, you might need to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:52 PM   #8612
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that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?
The other guy is clueless. Ignore him. He's entirely 100% wrong.


You should proceed with your plan to dupe it soonest. Worst case the new drive is useless due to corrupt data, in which case you just need to find an image someplace to start from scratch. YOu cannot hurt the new drive with a restore attempt.



You won't know until the new drive boots and you see how it behaves. But the likelihood that any bad portions of the transfer are in the OS itself is very small. You should use the ddrescue capability (not sure if winmfs has that or uses it natively or not, I always use the LiveCD linux tools).
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:32 AM   #8613
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The other guy is clueless. Ignore him. He's entirely 100% wrong.


You should proceed with your plan to dupe it soonest. Worst case the new drive is useless due to corrupt data, in which case you just need to find an image someplace to start from scratch. YOu cannot hurt the new drive with a restore attempt.



You won't know until the new drive boots and you see how it behaves. But the likelihood that any bad portions of the transfer are in the OS itself is very small. You should use the ddrescue capability (not sure if winmfs has that or uses it natively or not, I always use the LiveCD linux tools).
Appreciate the response!

I'm thinking he meant that copying my bad drive would mean copying bad things over to my new drive - not so much that it would physically hurt my new drive.

But anyways, your point is taken. I'll read up on the ddrescue and just give it a shot. Worst thing is that I have to yank the drive again and redo w/ a clean image instead of an image of my current drive.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:41 AM   #8614
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Appreciate the response!

I'm thinking he meant that copying my bad drive would mean copying bad things over to my new drive - not so much that it would physically hurt my new drive.

But anyways, your point is taken. I'll read up on the ddrescue and just give it a shot. Worst thing is that I have to yank the drive again and redo w/ a clean image instead of an image of my current drive.
The handy to have MFS Live cd v1.4 has

dd_rescue

on it which is quite similar to

ddrescue

(both are fancy versions of dd)

I recommend it with the -v option so that it reports what it's doing as it does it.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:30 AM   #8615
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Originally Posted by dbong1021 View Post
that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?
I've never tried this, but I've read in this thread that by doing something online at Tivo.com, before you tear it down, enables the TiVo to fetch your passes from them. Like I said, never figured this out, perhaps others that have, will chime-in with some advice.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #8616
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<snip>
Question though on cloning a bad drive like my existing one is turning into.
Is the bad drive theoretically fine but physical issues causing it to pixelate, lock up, etc? <snip>
This has been my experience with failing drives in TiVo S1 and S3.

On my S3 I did a bit for bit copy from the OEM W/D drive to a Seagate Barracuda (of the same size.) TiVo not only liked the new drive, but the 1TB extension drive still worked and all data was saved.

You have nothing to lose, by cloning, other than the time if it does not work; which I'm 98% sure it will work.

Your choice...
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:17 PM   #8617
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This has been my experience with failing drives in TiVo S1 and S3.

On my S3 I did a bit for bit copy from the OEM W/D drive to a Seagate Barracuda (of the same size.) TiVo not only liked the new drive, but the 1TB extension drive still worked and all data was saved.

You have nothing to lose, by cloning, other than the time if it does not work; which I'm 98% sure it will work.

Your choice...
I wish there was a 100% sure answer But thanks for your feedback and I will likely just clone the drive after I run it through the tests/tools suggested above.

Worst comes to worse I just yank the new drive, format, and start from scratch.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:10 PM   #8618
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One thing that might help is to take out the original drive, wrap a couple of thicknesses of paper towel around it and put it in the freezer at least overnight right up until you're ready to copy it.

Paper towel protects your hands when you take it out and keeps the cold metal from condensing water vapor onto itself.

Take it off and keep the drive out where it can get plenty of cooling airflow during the copy process.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:24 PM   #8619
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I wish there was a 100% sure answer But thanks for your feedback and I will likely just clone the drive after I run it through the tests/tools suggested above.

Worst comes to worse I just yank the new drive, format, and start from scratch.
It's kind of like the question that was asked about hard drive durability. There are "no sure things."

In this case you have nothing (but a little time) to lose and everything to gain.

Go forth copy, clone or dd that failing drive... feedback always welcome.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:18 AM   #8620
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I've got a 20EADS working just fine in an S3 HD.

Wish I could get my hands on about a dozen more brand new full retail box ones at a decent price, or even a mildly indecent one.

edited to add: If you use the EADS, you might need to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark
Thanks for the info.

As time went on, turns out it appears to be the power supply (started as a reboot loop, then I unplugged it. Now I only hear a faint ticking when I plug it back in... nothing further, no lights, no nothing other than tick tick tick coming from the power supply side of the tivo).

Ebay virtually has no original S3's on there. Wow... is the used market that dry? A few lifetime units but not much in terms of fully working used units without lifetime.

Glad I'm getting a spare 1TB hard drive regardless.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:47 AM   #8621
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I am going to be doing a drive replacement on TCD652160 TiVo HD, i am going from a 160 gig drive which is currently in the tivo to a 160 gig drive. I have been alerted in a different thread that just because it says 160 gig doesn't mean it is exactly 160 gig. it could be 160 gig - 1 byte... the people in the other thread directed me here because there might be issues in replacing the same size drive with the same size drive... just for sake of argument.. if i do the drive replacement and it seems like it works but then for some reason when i try to put the new drive into the tivo and it fails.. can i put the old drive back in? (as long as I don't record or delete anything in the mean time)?

2nd question if the 2 drives are the exact same size (right down to the byte) is there anything i have to be aware of when doing to drive to drive copy?

3rd question what i would like to do is to just have the "old" tivo drive and the "new" tivo drive in the computer, and boot from a cd , what is the best program(s) to use to do this mirror copy?
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #8622
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I am going to be doing a drive replacement on TCD652160 TiVo HD, i am going from a 160 gig drive which is currently in the tivo to a 160 gig drive. I have been alerted in a different thread that just because it says 160 gig doesn't mean it is exactly 160 gig. it could be 160 gig - 1 byte... the people in the other thread directed me here because there might be issues in replacing the same size drive with the same size drive... just for sake of argument.. if i do the drive replacement and it seems like it works but then for some reason when i try to put the new drive into the tivo and it fails.. can i put the old drive back in? (as long as I don't record or delete anything in the mean time)?

2nd question if the 2 drives are the exact same size (right down to the byte) is there anything i have to be aware of when doing to drive to drive copy?

3rd question what i would like to do is to just have the "old" tivo drive and the "new" tivo drive in the computer, and boot from a cd , what is the best program(s) to use to do this mirror copy?
The "the same size isn't always the same size" problem came from some Maxtor drives in the single tuner Series 2s that were a little larger than other brands claiming the same number of GB. I don't think that happens anymore.

On the stickers on top of the drives should be a label and on the label should be an LBA number. If that number is the same on both drives, or larger on the target drive than the source drive, you're good to go.

If there's something wrong with the software, that is, the specific sequence of ones and zeros, on the source drive, that's not going to be magically cured in the copy just by copying, but if the problem was the result of physical problems with the source drive, perhaps the TiVo can repair it once it's running off of the target drive.

You should go to mfslive.org and download the zip file of the .iso file which is the image for the bootable MFS Live cd v1.4, unzip it, and burn a copy as an image.

It's handy to have around even if you don't have a TiVo.

There's utility on there called

dd_rescue

which is a fancier version of the old unix utility

dd


(which is also on that cd)

dd_rescue

should not be confused with a similar utility, written by a different guy, which does much the same thing, which is called

ddrescue


What you need to be aware of is the way unix/linux identifies drives and not to include the wrong one in the command options.

Let us say that you are going to boot the PC with the MFS Live cd v1.4 in your cd or dvd drive, and it's either a PATA/IDE bus type drive, which means it would be identified as

/dev/hd(insert a drive letter here)

or it's a SATA interface but not on the first or second SATA controller, then if you're smart enough to disconnect all hard drives (including the one with Windows on it), and then connect the source drive to the first SATA controller (which might be labeled SATA 0, or SATA 1, depending on where they start counting) and the target drive to the second SATA controller, you could use the following on the command line


dd_rescue -v /dev/sda /dev/sdb


The -v option is so you can see what it's doing while it's doing it. The v is for verbose.

If you're doing this because the source drive is suspect, you should read up on the various other options dd_rescue offers, like doing it in smaller chunks at a time, starting at the end of each drive and working backwards, and other stuff, and also putting the source drive in the freezer overnight first, wrapped in a thickness or 2 of paper towel.

Please note that we are not talking about DOS/Windows style drive letters here.

On an older, pre or early SATA computer, the "C:" drive would probably have been

/dev/hda

and nowadays it's probably

/dev/sda


Also, those refer to the entire drive, regardless of the number of partitions on it.

C: refers to a single partition on a specific drive, but that may not be the only partition on that drive.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:16 PM   #8623
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unitron i appreciate the response. the problem i am having with my tivo is that shows are randomly freezing and then unfreezing.. it almost looks like someone paused the tivo (only without the green bar at the bottom). Sometimes it freezes for a second or 2, sometimes longer, and sometimes it pauses / freezes for so long that the tivo reboots. lol it sucks. From my reading on the web I believe that the drive itself is crashing. If you had to make a guess.. do you think it YES 100% the drive is crashing or no it's the tivo software on the drive. or is it for example, a 70/30 split, 70% the drive and then 30% the software could be the problem... i'm curious where would you stand on that issue? i realize i didn't give a lot of info on the freezing, but sadly that is about all i have to go on.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:25 PM   #8624
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unitron i appreciate the response. the problem i am having with my tivo is that shows are randomly freezing and then unfreezing.. it almost looks like someone paused the tivo (only without the green bar at the bottom). Sometimes it freezes for a second or 2, sometimes longer, and sometimes it pauses / freezes for so long that the tivo reboots. lol it sucks. From my reading on the web I believe that the drive itself is crashing. If you had to make a guess.. do you think it YES 100% the drive is crashing or no it's the tivo software on the drive. or is it for example, a 70/30 split, 70% the drive and then 30% the software could be the problem... i'm curious where would you stand on that issue? i realize i didn't give a lot of info on the freezing, but sadly that is about all i have to go on.
If it weren't for the rebooting, I'd suggest that the freezing problem might very well be occuring before the signal gets to your TiVo. I see it all the time on broadcast and cable.

Do you already own the second 160GB drive onto which you intend to copy the first?

If not, it may not make sense economically to buy it.

Have you absolutely eliminated any possibility of a problem with your power supply?
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:26 PM   #8625
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Definitely sounds like the drive is going bad, that's the same symptoms I had when my Hitachi 1TB 7k1000 was on its way out (including the reboots). The good news is that if you pull it and copy it to a new drive now (with jmfs or whatever) you'll likely get almost all of it copied over if it isn't too far gone. dd_rescue works pretty well to recover the max possible.

Get a bigger drive than the 160GB, I'd go 500GB minimum then expand and supersize it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:41 PM   #8626
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Definitely sounds like the drive is going bad, that's the same symptoms I had when my Hitachi 1TB 7k1000 was on its way out (including the reboots). The good news is that if you pull it and copy it to a new drive now (with jmfs or whatever) you'll likely get almost all of it copied over if it isn't too far gone. dd_rescue works pretty well to recover the max possible.

Get a bigger drive than the 160GB, I'd go 500GB minimum then expand and supersize it.
I'm the one who directed him over here. The "new" 160GB drive is one he already had. Yes, for a number of reasons he should go with an actual new drive but - that costs money.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:46 PM   #8627
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I'm the one who directed him over here. The "new" 160GB drive is one he already had. Yes, for a number of reasons he should go with an actual new drive but - that costs money.
If he already has a 160 with the same or a larger LBA number, he should do the freezer trick and copy the original to it before it gets worse, but as long as he's got the lid off he should ckeck the power supply, or just go ahead and replace the caps on the +5V and +12V outputs on GP.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:22 PM   #8628
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i haven't popped the case on the tivo box . yet. :-) but will be doing that shortly.. as for why I am going to go back to a 160 gig drive.. i need to save the shows that are already recorded (and which i forgot to mention on this thread) i have a dvr expander (external drive) so in order to save the shows this is about the only real way. I was going to copy the shows to my computer via tivo desktop but that takes 1 hour 15 minutes to move a 1 hour show. and with half the tivo being filled.... yeah that'd take a while. :-( so i'm kind of stuck
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:50 PM   #8629
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i haven't popped the case on the tivo box . yet. :-) but will be doing that shortly.. as for why I am going to go back to a 160 gig drive.. i need to save the shows that are already recorded (and which i forgot to mention on this thread) i have a dvr expander (external drive) so in order to save the shows this is about the only real way. I was going to copy the shows to my computer via tivo desktop but that takes 1 hour 15 minutes to move a 1 hour show. and with half the tivo being filled.... yeah that'd take a while. :-( so i'm kind of stuck
You didn't mention the DVR expander before. What have you done to verify that it is not the source of the problem?
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #8630
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oops ... actually i am not sure how to test if that is the problem or if it is the drive in the tivo . i guess i could pull the external drive, but if i do that, then my understanding (and i could be wrong) is that i would loose what is recorded, because if I start up the tivo without the external drive, the tivo will just delete what is on the main drive. Or am i wrong and i just won't have access to the shows that were recorded before i disconnected the external drive until i reconnect the external?

but other the disconnecting the external drive and just running on the internal for a while.. is there another way to test?
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #8631
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oops ... actually i am not sure how to test if that is the problem or if it is the drive in the tivo . i guess i could pull the external drive, but if i do that, then my understanding (and i could be wrong) is that i would loose what is recorded, because if I start up the tivo without the external drive, the tivo will just delete what is on the main drive. Or am i wrong and i just won't have access to the shows that were recorded before i disconnected the external drive until i reconnect the external?

but other the disconnecting the external drive and just running on the internal for a while.. is there another way to test?
Run kickstart 54.

Individual recordings are spread over both drives so losing either one loses everything.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:35 PM   #8632
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If you "Xerox" the 160 to the other 160, you can put it in and run with the external connected and the external (and the TiVo) will think it's the original 160 and you can do KickStart 58 to try to get the TiVo to straighten things out.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 AM   #8633
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If you "Xerox" the 160 to the other 160, you can put it in and run with the external connected and the external (and the TiVo) will think it's the original 160 and you can do KickStart 58 to try to get the TiVo to straighten things out.
The problem is at this point he doesn't know if it is the internal or the external that is causing the problem.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:39 PM   #8634
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The handy to have MFS Live cd v1.4 has

dd_rescue

on it which is quite similar to

ddrescue

(both are fancy versions of dd)

I recommend it with the -v option so that it reports what it's doing as it does it.
Just wanted to update everyone on my situation.

Ran dd_rescue on my original 1tb drive with the verbose option. After quite some time the process finished and revealed no errors. I took a backup of the drive while I as was at it and then started the copy process. That all finished up fine and things seem great now with the new wd10ears drive (ran wdidle on it). I'm not seeing any pixelation or freezes so far 3 days in.

After I put the tivo back together I took the time to test the original drive using tools off of wd's site. Both the quick and external tests revealed no issues. ??? Not sure what to think now as far as what was starting to go wrong with my original drive
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:47 PM   #8635
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N

Just wanted to update everyone on my situation.

Ran dd_rescue on my original 1tb drive with the verbose option. After quite some time the process finished and revealed no errors. I took a backup of the drive while I as was at it and then started the copy process. That all finished up fine and things seem great now with the new wd10ears drive (ran wdidle on it). I'm not seeing any pixelation or freezes so far 3 days in.

After I put the tivo back together I took the time to test the original drive using tools off of wd's site. Both the quick and external tests revealed no issues. ??? Not sure what to think now as far as what was starting to go wrong with my original drive
Let me be sure I understand, you have an original S3 that came with a 250GB, but at some point in the past you replaced it with a 1TB?

And now you've solved your problems by replacing that 1TB with a second one, but can't find anything wrong with the first one?

Send it to me, I'll run the several years test on it.


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Old 05-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #8636
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Let me be sure I understand, you have an original S3 that came with a 250GB, but at some point in the past you replaced it with a 1TB?

And now you've solved your problems by replacing that 1TB with a second one, but can't find anything wrong with the first one?

Send it to me, I'll run the several years test on it.

Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.

Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:16 AM   #8637
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Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.

Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!
Strange TiVo symptoms often are resolved after one finds and replaces faulty capacitors in the power supply.

So no deal on the free drive, huh?

:-)
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:27 AM   #8638
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Strange TiVo symptoms often are resolved after one finds and replaces faulty capacitors in the power supply.

So no deal on the free drive, huh?

:-)
My media center computer could really use the extra 1tb.

How about my old 250gb drive?

I really do appreciate your help either way though!
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:46 AM   #8639
ThreeSoFar
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Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.

Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!
Could it be as simple as the cable was working loose?
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:43 AM   #8640
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Originally Posted by dbong1021 View Post
Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.

Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!
It could conceivably be related to out-of-spec voltages or heat. Have you checked the TiVo's voltages under load? Could the unit have been running hot?
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