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Old 03-24-2012, 01:01 PM   #8521
ThreeSoFar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I'll try to explain

dd_rescue

to you after I've had some sleep.
I'll try, once unitron wakes up he can correct me as needed.

dd_rescue (which is the default method that the JMFS uses, I believe) duplicates one hard drive to the next, byte for byte. As it sees any portions of the source drive that are sub-par (the technical term for that is 'iffy'), it slows down. It reads that section over and over, and more slowly(?i think?), hoping that some of the reads may be more successful than others. On these 'iffy' portions of the source drive, the speed of the transfer can slow down drastically. That's a good thing--that's how dd_rescue rescues these 'iffy' bits.

So if JMFS copy is an option for you (I forget what source TiVo you're talking about), use it. Or use the MFSLive CD and dd_rescue is on there at the command line.

Either way, let it do its magic, let it take as long as it damn well pleases. On completion, you'll likely hve a working TiVo image on the new drive, with perhaps some bits incomplete or missing. If those bad/incomplete parts are in a show, it will be corrupt, pixelated or simply fail to play. No harm done, just delete it. If they are in the OS portion, it's a bit worse. But do not despair. There's a "kickstart" option (is it 57?) that will download the latest TiVo software to the inactive OS partition. That is, the "active" but broken partition will be set aside, a new image will be installed from TiVo.com onto the other partition, and you'll be good to go. Then the next time TiVo upgrades its OS, the second partition will be used, which had bad parts of your old drive on it but that will be deleted and overwritten with the next TiVo release.
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Old 03-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #8522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSoFar View Post
I'll try, once unitron wakes up he can correct me as needed.

dd_rescue (which is the default method that the JMFS uses, I believe) duplicates one hard drive to the next, byte for byte. As it sees any portions of the source drive that are sub-par (the technical term for that is 'iffy'), it slows down. It reads that section over and over, and more slowly(?i think?), hoping that some of the reads may be more successful than others. On these 'iffy' portions of the source drive, the speed of the transfer can slow down drastically. That's a good thing--that's how dd_rescue rescues these 'iffy' bits.

So if JMFS copy is an option for you (I forget what source TiVo you're talking about), use it. Or use the MFSLive CD and dd_rescue is on there at the command line.

Either way, let it do its magic, let it take as long as it damn well pleases. On completion, you'll likely hve a working TiVo image on the new drive, with perhaps some bits incomplete or missing. If those bad/incomplete parts are in a show, it will be corrupt, pixelated or simply fail to play. No harm done, just delete it. If they are in the OS portion, it's a bit worse. But do not despair. There's a "kickstart" option (is it 57?) that will download the latest TiVo software to the inactive OS partition. That is, the "active" but broken partition will be set aside, a new image will be installed from TiVo.com onto the other partition, and you'll be good to go. Then the next time TiVo upgrades its OS, the second partition will be used, which had bad parts of your old drive on it but that will be deleted and overwritten with the next TiVo release.
Thanks, Three.

The original utility is

dd

and it does byte for byte copies, but it only runs at one speed and displays no information about what it's doing as it does it.


dd_rescue

and

ddrescue


are two separate and different utilities (with confusingly similar names) that do the same thing, but are more adjustable, and have options that let you see what's going on.


I think jmfs uses ddrescue


The MFS Live bootable cd has dd_rescue on it (along with a lot of other useful stuff), and is what I'm accustomed to using.


An explanation of the various KickStart codes, and how to invoke them, is here

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

and the one that swaps the main and alternate boot partition sets is probably KS 51, but since there's no real "official, straight from TiVo, Inc.'s engineering department" documentation, one can't be sure.

The WinMFS program provides a way to swap from which set of partitions the TiVo boots, and though it requires removing the drive from the TiVo, I recommend it instead, if needed.


MrMike1876:

What you should do, assuming you have a PC available to do this, and assuming that 750GB drive is a Western Digital, is take the internal drive out of the TiVo, search Western Digital's web site for the model number, and when you get the page for that drive, on the left there'll be a "downloads" link, which will take you to a page where you can download an image from which you can burn a bootable cd with the WD diagnostic software on it.

Boot the PC with that cd (do not boot into Windows), and with the TiVo drive attached, and run the short test, and then the long one.

It'll take a while. Maybe longer.

If it's some other brand, try their website for a bootable diagnostic cd image.

Is your TiVo a TCD648250, a TCD652160, or a TCD65800?

What became of the original drive?

Which program did you use to copy it to the 750 and expand?


If the 750 is in good shape physically, then the software on it may be suspect.

That's when, if you want to try to save recordings, we can use

dd_rescue

to try to copy it byte for byte to another drive as large or larger.

The catch is that the larger drive will think that it's the 750 because we will have copied the bootpage and partition map of the 750.

This will, if all goes well, allow it to work with the external.

Any chance that your TiVo is a TCD648250, and that the drive is not a 750, but the original 250?

Because I was under the impression that you could only use an external with the original unexpanded drive, although I suppose I could have been misinformed.

Probably not a bad idea to go ahead and go to

mfslive.org

and download the zip file of the .iso image of the MFS Live cd v1.4, and also download the WinMFS program.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:46 AM   #8523
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If anyone needs a drive for a decent price now, I can recommend one for the Premiere - an external Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Desk 1.5TB. Get this at staples.com with a $25 off $75 coupon (google for this, costs about $1.50) then have them price match to Amazon for net price of around $70 with tax.

Took a chance that this would work, figured I could use it for one of my PCs if not. Taking it out of the case, discovered it was a model st1500dl001 drive, which is a Seagate Barracuda Green drive running at 5900rpm with (I think) advanced format and 64MB cache. I was concerned about it working in the Premiere I just got from the Electronics Expo deal so I updated the Tivo software on the stock drive to 20.2 before copying. Using jmfs, the copy/expand/supersize went off without a hitch and more importantly, it booted right up in the Premeire and seems to be fine.

So the net, to me, is that you can still get a decent price on a 1TB or more drive if you are willing to consider taking a drive out of an external case.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #8524
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Question Its gotta be me, jmfs copy failing

I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?

Additional info:
Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.

Thanks in advance,

Tim
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:11 PM   #8525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoehr View Post
I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?

Additional info:
Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.

Thanks in advance,

Tim
I assume that this is not a Premiere XL.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:43 PM   #8526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoehr View Post
I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?

Additional info:
Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.

Thanks in advance,

Tim
Run the long test from WD's own diagnostic software on that target drive.

Also, I think hdparm is included on the jmfs cd (if not, it's on the MFS Live cd v1.4, of which everyone should have a copy, even non-TiVo owners).

hdparm -N /dev/sda


if the results show two different long numbers, then you've got a host protected area on that old winders drive that will need to be dealt with.

I don't know if HP does that. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have a hidden partition on there with the Win7 install files, although the jmfs copy process should just overwrite the MBR and everything else, but an HPA is low level enough to throw a monkey wrench in the works.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #8527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Run the long test from WD's own diagnostic software on that target drive.
I'll do this later and come back with the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Also, I think hdparm is included on the jmfs cd (if not, it's on the MFS Live cd v1.4, of which everyone should have a copy, even non-TiVo owners).

hdparm -N /dev/sda
hdparm was on there; result showed identical #s (1465149168) & HPA is disabled

I thought the issue had to do with the original TiVo drive, if its the new drive I feel better about a positive resolution. (Good news anyway is that my TiVo's grinding was the fan, not the drive, so worse case I wait longer for more space.)

Thanks,

Tim
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:05 PM   #8528
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Quote:
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I assume that this is not a Premiere XL.
Correct, it is not an XL.

I'm working on not being an XL either.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:09 PM   #8529
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Quote:
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I'll do this later and come back with the results.



hdparm was on there; result showed identical #s (1465149168) & HPA is disabled

I thought the issue had to do with the original TiVo drive, if its the new drive I feel better about a positive resolution. (Good news anyway is that my TiVo's grinding was the fan, not the drive, so worse case I wait longer for more space.)

Thanks,

Tim
You're trying to copy a drive from a Premiere that was giving trouble?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:38 PM   #8530
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You're trying to copy a drive from a Premiere that was giving trouble?
I thought the drive was, by the noise, but it turned out to be the fan and not the drive.

I haven't dl'd the WD tools to check the WD7500AADS drive yet, but I found a Seagate 500GB 7200rpm drive lying around and figured I'd see what happens with it. It looks like I can copy the Premier drive to it without a problem, not that I'd want to use that drive. So I guess the trouble is in the WD7500.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:21 AM   #8531
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I thought the drive was, by the noise, but it turned out to be the fan and not the drive.

I haven't dl'd the WD tools to check the WD7500AADS drive yet, but I found a Seagate 500GB 7200rpm drive lying around and figured I'd see what happens with it. It looks like I can copy the Premier drive to it without a problem, not that I'd want to use that drive. So I guess the trouble is in the WD7500.
So there were no indications of anything wrong with the Premiere except the noise that turned out to be the fan?
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:23 AM   #8532
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I have not seen any references to the WD10EURX so I thought I would comment on my experiences.

Drive info;
Western Digital AV-GP Green Power WD10EURX-73FH1Y0
Product of Malaysia
14 Feb 2012
Purchased for AU$137

My TiVo is a TCD663160 (Australian TiVoHD) running software version 11.3b5-01-2-663 and purchased in March 2009.
The old drive was a WD1600AVJS-63WNA0, Product of Thailand, 04 Jul 2008 and still working fine.
The screws on the back of the case and on the disk tray were Torx T10 but the screws under the drive were T15.

I booted my PC standalone and ran WDIDLE3 on the new drive to find it was disabled out of the box.
I used it to set the timer to both 8 and 300 seconds to establish that WDIDLE3 does work with this drive before setting it back to the default 'disabled'.

HDDScan said that AAM was not supported on this drive but not an issue as this drive is very quiet.

I ran the Seatools Long Generic test which took 2hr 30min to verify that the drive was fine.

I connected the old and new drives and ran WinMFS beta9.3g which took 44 min to copy my drive.
I expanded the drive but did not SuperSize it.

The above was run on my Win XP SP3 PC (E5700 @ 3.00GHz with 2GB memory).

I placed the new drive in my TiVo and it booted normally.
I soft booted it and it was fine (as you would expect with IDLE3 disabled).

It has only been running for 24 hours so this is not exactly an exhaustive test but it has recorded 6 programs and I have watched 2 of them. It appears exactly the same as before except that I now have 200 hrs of HD recording space.

Note that this is an 'Advanced format' drive using 4K instead of 512 sectors.
There are a few posts speculating on potential issues but I could not find posts with actual problems so I decided to 'suck it and see'.
I would be interested if anyone with knowledge of my version of the Linux kernel would care to comment on these 'advanced format' drives
.
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Last edited by BurnieM : 03-29-2012 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:32 AM   #8533
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I have not seen any references to the WD10EURX so I thought I would comment on my experiences.

Drive info;
Western Digital AV-GP Green Power WD10EURX-73FH1Y0
Product of Malaysia
14 Feb 2012
Purchased for AU$137

My TiVo is a TCD663160 (Australian TiVoHD) running software version 11.3b5-01-2-663 and purchased in March 2009.
The old drive was a WD1600AVJS-63WNA0, Product of Thailand, 04 Jul 2008 and still working fine.
The screws on the back of the case and on the disk tray were Torx T10 but the screws under the drive were T15.

I booted my PC standalone and ran WDIDLE3 on the new drive to find it was disabled out of the box.
I used it to set the timer to both 8 and 300 seconds to establish that WDIDLE3 does work with this drive before setting it back to the default 'disabled'.

HDDScan said that AAM was not supported on this drive but not an issue as this drive is very quiet.

I ran the Seatools Long Generic test which took 2hr 30min to verify that the drive was fine.

I connected the old and new drives and ran WinMFS beta9.3g which took 44 min to copy my drive.
I expanded the drive but did not SuperSize it.

The above was run on my Win XP SP3 PC (E5700 @ 3.00GHz with 2GB memory).

I placed the new drive in my TiVo and it booted normally.
I soft booted it and it was fine (as you would expect with IDLE3 disabled).

It has only been running for 24 hours so this is not exactly an exhaustive test but it has recorded 6 programs and I have watched 2 of them. It appears exactly the same as before except that I now have 200 hrs of HD recording space.

Note that this is an 'Advanced format' drive using 4K instead of 512 sectors.
There are a few posts speculating on potential issues but I could not find posts with actual problems so I decided to 'suck it and see'.
I would be interested if anyone with knowledge of my version of the Linux kernel would care to comment on these 'advanced format' drives
.
Did you utilize WinMFS's ability to provide a larger swap partition?
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:04 AM   #8534
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Did you utilize WinMFS's ability to provide a larger swap partition?
No, I just left it standard
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:09 AM   #8535
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So there were no indications of anything wrong with the Premiere except the noise that turned out to be the fan?
Correct. When I was unplugging the TiVo I was thinking, that doesn't really sound like the HD and made a mental note of where I was hearing the sound come from. After I took the cover off I was like, "Hmmm. I thought the sound was on the right not the left, I think I should plug this in." Sure enough the drive purred and the fan sounded like my coffee grinder.

I am running the long test right now, it says 2 1/2 hr to complete. I did the quick test first and it did find write errors.

Thanks for quickly knowing the new drive might be the issue. Even though it said "write error" the process was "copying" and my brain was fixated on it being a source issue and not destination.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:00 AM   #8536
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No, I just left it standard
I've never changed swap size either and haven't had any issue with new drives in my two Tivo HDs (well, until my Hitachi 7K1000 1TB failed after a year and a half's use recently, but that's not because of swap).

What benefit is it supposed to provide, exactly? I've never noticed my HDs slowing down over time, so I don't see how a bigger swap would help with anything.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:12 AM   #8537
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Correct. When I was unplugging the TiVo I was thinking, that doesn't really sound like the HD and made a mental note of where I was hearing the sound come from. After I took the cover off I was like, "Hmmm. I thought the sound was on the right not the left, I think I should plug this in." Sure enough the drive purred and the fan sounded like my coffee grinder.

I am running the long test right now, it says 2 1/2 hr to complete. I did the quick test first and it did find write errors.

Thanks for quickly knowing the new drive might be the issue. Even though it said "write error" the process was "copying" and my brain was fixated on it being a source issue and not destination.
Never trust new parts just because they're new.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:15 AM   #8538
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I've never changed swap size either and haven't had any issue with new drives in my two Tivo HDs (well, until my Hitachi 7K1000 1TB failed after a year and a half's use recently, but that's not because of swap).

What benefit is it supposed to provide, exactly? I've never noticed my HDs slowing down over time, so I don't see how a bigger swap would help with anything.
When the TiVo software needs to try to fix itself, having enough swap space can make the difference between success and an endless reboot loop, according to what I've read, and a 1GB swap partition is like 15 minutes of video, so it's not a great sacrifice.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:09 PM   #8539
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Never trust new parts just because they're new.
I concur. Although this was the primary disk in an operable Win 7 PC, so I'm surprised it is damaged.

I ran the long check and it reported "Too many errors found", error code 0225, call for tech support. Nice. I'm curious to see what happens if I zero it out, so I'm letting it do that. I used to have a "super" disk tool that could fix anything. I have no idea where it is, or if it even works on this class of drives. It was from IDE and 40-100 GB drive days.

I'm not going to mess around with it much longer. Since my disk does work I'm not too concerned about it now. I presume I can use the 500 GB Seagate disk I was able to make successfully as a source for future attempts. I need to put this TiVo back into service before my family kills me.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:46 PM   #8540
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I concur. Although this was the primary disk in an operable Win 7 PC, so I'm surprised it is damaged.

I ran the long check and it reported "Too many errors found", error code 0225, call for tech support. Nice. I'm curious to see what happens if I zero it out, so I'm letting it do that. I used to have a "super" disk tool that could fix anything. I have no idea where it is, or if it even works on this class of drives. It was from IDE and 40-100 GB drive days.

I'm not going to mess around with it much longer. Since my disk does work I'm not too concerned about it now. I presume I can use the 500 GB Seagate disk I was able to make successfully as a source for future attempts. I need to put this TiVo back into service before my family kills me.
Was that super disk tool Steve Gibson's Spinrite, by chance?

The current version is available for about $90.

It works at the level below formatting done by or for an operating system.

There's a free utility called testdisk that's great for fixing and recovering partions on PC/IBM/DOS formatted disks (the ones with MBRs instead of Apple Partiton Maps).
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:07 PM   #8541
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Was that super disk tool Steve Gibson's Spinrite, by chance?

The current version is available for about $90.

It works at the level below formatting done by or for an operating system.

There's a free utility called testdisk that's great for fixing and recovering partions on PC/IBM/DOS formatted disks (the ones with MBRs instead of Apple Partiton Maps).
It probably wasn't one of those, but just like it. The executable was something like sdisk or sfdisk. The claim to fame for us was using it to fix partitions that became corrupted that fdisk couldn't see or fix. I believe it was around the time of the first EIDE disks that needing the WD code for them to be fully visible by the PC. I think the problem was when you wanted to remove that, but I can't remember. I just know we though we had a systemic issue and were going to have to toss a lot of drives and then somebody found this program and it saved our a$$.

Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #8542
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It probably wasn't one of those, but just like it. The executable was something like sdisk or sfdisk. The claim to fame for us was using it to fix partitions that became corrupted that fdisk couldn't see or fix. I believe it was around the time of the first EIDE disks that needing the WD code for them to be fully visible by the PC. I think the problem was when you wanted to remove that, but I can't remember. I just know we though we had a systemic issue and were going to have to toss a lot of drives and then somebody found this program and it saved our a$$.

Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.
That sounds more like an issue with Ontrack's Disk Manager (if I recall the name correctly) dynamic drive overlay software that let you use a bigger hard drive than your BIOS could recognize as long as your OS could handle it.

Each drive manufacturer had their own version so the name varied from brand to brand.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #8543
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Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.
Its probably against some rule of etiquette to quote yourself, but i don't care.

The "long fix" finished with no errors. So, I've begun the copy again. It is past the point where it hung before. So knock on some silicon wafer, and I may be good.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:02 PM   #8544
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Thumbs up

Mission Accomplished!

The copy completed last night. I was able to extended and supersize without a problem. (I like how fast that is. Didn't it take awhile to expand a drive in the Hinsdale days?) Popped the drive back in, with a greased up fan, and everything is quite and operational.

Thanks again for the diagnosis!
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:56 PM   #8545
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Mission Accomplished!

The copy completed last night. I was able to extended and supersize without a problem. (I like how fast that is. Didn't it take awhile to expand a drive in the Hinsdale days?) Popped the drive back in, with a greased up fan, and everything is quite and operational.

Thanks again for the diagnosis!
Congratulations, now when your family kills you for other reasons unrelated to the TiVo being out of service, they won't have to worry about having missed any of their shows.


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Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:33 AM   #8546
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Congratulations, now when your family kills you for other reasons unrelated to the TiVo being out of service, they won't have to worry about having missed any of their shows.

Exactly. Technology in the house is my husband/father job security. Once my kids can operate the TV and computer on their own I'll be on the doorstep.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:46 AM   #8547
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Exactly. Technology in the house is my husband/father job security. Once my kids can operate the TV and computer on their own I'll be on the doorstep.
And you'll have what little remains of your now completely gray hair to keep you warm.


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Old 03-31-2012, 07:21 PM   #8548
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Is there anywhere where one could download an image of a TCD 65800 hard drive? I tried replacing the drive with one from model TCD 652160 (non XL) and I can't get the service to activate (getting a hardware failure message).
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:31 PM   #8549
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Is there anywhere where one could download an image of a TCD 65800 hard drive? I tried replacing the drive with one from model TCD 652160 (non XL) and I can't get the service to activate (getting a hardware failure message).
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...47#post8956047
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:54 PM   #8550
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You are awesome! Thanks!
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