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Old 10-31-2011, 11:11 PM   #8221
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Oh, ok, I guess you did answer the question.. sorry, when you said:
After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9.
it sounded to me like this was just a "manual" way to copy the entire drive.

MFS-live, this is the linux one, right? I don't have/do Windows (though possibly could if it helps save my Tivo drive).
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:05 AM   #8222
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Oh, ok, I guess you did answer the question.. sorry, when you said:
After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9.
it sounded to me like this was just a "manual" way to copy the entire drive.

MFS-live, this is the linux one, right? I don't have/do Windows (though possibly could if it helps save my Tivo drive).
Sorry for the confusion.

dd_rescue, like the original unix utility dd and ddrescue, does a byte for byte copy, and has no idea what operating system or file system is in what it copies. If you copy a drive to a larger drive, the bigger drive now thinks it's a smaller drive because it has the partition table of the smaller drive. It just deals in the ones and zeros.

I think understanding partitions is as high level as it gets.

dd just plows ahead with the copy and provides no information whatsoever about what it's doing until it's finished.

dd_rescue will try to copy big chunks (adjustable with the -b option) and if it runs into problems reading the source will go back and try again in smaller chunks (adjustable with the -B option)

Stuff like MFS Tools (updated in MFS Live), JMFS, and WinMFS know that they're dealing with a TiVo drive, and TiVo drive structures, and if there's anything "off" about the source drive it'll throw them.

The dd based stuff pays that no mind.

What we're talking about here is Xeroxing the screwed up 2TB Hitachi, and hoping that the screwed up part is the TiVo operating system part, but that the recordings, the MFS partitions, are still okay.

This way we get the skeleton of the partition structure on the new drive, so that the partition map is right for the 2TB and each partition starts and ends where it's supposed to so that they can be overwritten by a partition of the same size.

Then we use the original smaller drive as a source for non-screwed up operating system partitions to overwrite the ones on the new 2TB drive.

If you dd a screwed up drive to another drive it'll be screwed up as well, because it's an exact copy. But after we do that, we'll try to replace the screwed up parts.



If you haven't worked with the Linux command line some, especially if you've been using Windows but didn't start out working with DOS back in the pre-Windows 95 days, or if you're a Mac guy, but never used an Apple II, all of this is likely to be unfamiliar territory.


What kind of hardware do you have on hand with which to do your TiVo wrangling?

I get the feeling I may have to walk you through this step by step so I need to know as much as I can beforehand what we're dealing with.

Have you run the manufacturer's diagnostics on that Hitachi to see if it's physically okay or not, to see if you have a bad drive or a good drive with damaged TiVo software?


The MFS Live cd iso (or a zip of the iso), from which you can burn a bootable cd, as well as WinMFS, which runs in Windows XP or newer, can be found for download at mfslive.org

There's also stuff there about how each program works that you should read a time or three.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:07 PM   #8223
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current recommended drives?

My TiVo HD has been acting funny recently. And by funny I mean NOT funny at all -- it has stopped and rebooted on the same spot in a couple of recordings which I finally just deleted, and one day it had some strange behaviour like stuttering/stopping during live TV and then rebooted. I am worried the hard drive is failing. I have a 1.5TB drive in there now, so my plan of attack is to get another 1.5TB drive and do a very low-level drive clone using something like dd. (I have run the TiVo boot file system repair and that did not seem to help.) Will that work (assuming I can read the old drive)?

And secondly... what is the least expensive compatible drive I can get right now from, say, newegg.com? I was thinking maybe one of these (and FAQ #14 does not scare me in the least bit):

- $130 Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
- $140 Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

Any other sources for a good deal on a 1.5TB+ compatible drive?
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:14 PM   #8224
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And secondly... what is the least expensive compatible drive I can get right now from, say, newegg.com? I was thinking maybe one of these (and FAQ #14 does not scare me in the least bit):

- $130 Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
- $140 Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

Any other sources for a good deal on a 1.5TB+ compatible drive?
Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:25 PM   #8225
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I recently got a WD20EARS for $70 from amazon.com and a few days later, it went up to $150.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:52 PM   #8226
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Ears and Eurs

So does that mean EARS and EURS models are compatible?

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Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).

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Old 11-01-2011, 09:17 PM   #8227
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Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).

I heard it's due to the flooding in Thailand.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:32 PM   #8228
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I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #8229
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I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.
Its funny that when I looked on my amazon.com receipt, it said Oct 11. The lowest price, $69.99
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:10 PM   #8230
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I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.
That's why I'm grabbing a couple of those 2TB Seagates on sale for $75 this week at BestBuy (they were out of stock this afternoon, but when I went to order online early this evening found out they got more in so I can pick them up tomorrow instead of waiting for shipping), and hoping that what I've read online is true about them being 512 Byte sectors and not 4K, i.e., not "advanced format".

Although I'd a lot rather be getting WD20EADS'es for $75, based on the lack of trouble, heat, and noise I've had with the 4 I've gotten so far.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:32 PM   #8231
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If you haven't worked with the Linux command line some, especially if you've been using Windows but didn't start out working with DOS back in the
Umm, I said I don't do Windows.

I use alpine as my mail program, does that give you a hint? (I'm not trying to be snotty.)

I know UNIX, or at least BSD-ish versions. I have done Tivo upgrades in the past, but used jmfs (semi-friendly front end) the most recent time.

I just have never done this sort of "try to merge two drives into one".

Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:09 PM   #8232
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Umm, I said I don't do Windows.

I use alpine as my mail program, does that give you a hint? (I'm not trying to be snotty.)

I know UNIX, or at least BSD-ish versions. I have done Tivo upgrades in the past, but used jmfs (semi-friendly front end) the most recent time.

I just have never done this sort of "try to merge two drives into one".

Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)
I remember reading about a unix based program called Pine. Isn't Alpine a defunct brand of mentholated cigarettes?

I write not just for the person to whom I'm responding but future searchers as well, having learned a lot of what I know about TiVos by having been one. ( a searcher, that is, not a TiVo)

Also, when 2 or more people post with similar problems at the same time, and I'm trying to help all of them, sometimes I loose track of the exact individual circumstances of each, and the problems and answers sort of run together.

If you dd (or dd_rescue) a 2TB drive to a 1.5, assuming that you've got half a TB of unused space at the end of that 2TB (which will show up as an Apple_Free_Partition when you run pdisk -l), you'll have the 2TB's partition table on it, and will probably have to figure out how to re-write it so that the drive reports itself as a 1.5

As I mentioned above, your local Best Buy might have some more of those 2TB $75 Seagates in stock by now, look up the drive on bestbuy.com and check on in-store pickup for your zip code. If they've got it, go ahead and pay for it online and pick it up tomorrow, I doubt you'll find anything else that size that cheap for quite a while with WD's Thailand drive plant underwater and suppliers to other drive makers underwater as well.

Once you've rescued your recordings you can run the manufacturer's diagnostics on the Hitachi, and if it turns out the drive is physically okay you can use it on a computer to store whatever TiVo recordings don't have the anti-copy bit set.

The MFS Live cd has a utility, I think it's called bootpage, that has one option that'll let you change the setting to use partion 3 to partition 6, and another that'll let you change the setting to use partition 4 to partition 7. In other words, two steps instead of the one that WinMFS fixboot does it in.

It also has options to let you see if it's currently set to use 3 and 4, or to use 6 and 7.

You should try changing the current Hitachi boot set from which ever it is to the alternate, and see how that works out.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:24 PM   #8233
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I checked, one of the somewhat local Best Buys supposedly has them in stock. I'll probably check again in a few days (not going to go tonight).

tivos can't use the whole 2 TB via normal means. IIRC, it's ~1.26 TB used. That's why I was guessing I could copy to a 1.5 TB drive.

alpine is "basically" pine 5.0 http://www.washington.edu/alpine/
supports UTF8, etc.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:03 PM   #8234
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So does that mean EARS and EURS models are compatible?
They are. AFAIK the EURS are EARS drives with a different firmware designed for video streaming, so theoretically they would be better to use than EARS, but I doubt you would be able to see any difference. The spec sheet shows the EURS to be 1 or 2 decibel quieter, but you can adjust the AAM on the EARS to be just as quiet I believe.

The EURS supports some extra commands which allows it to drop sectors it cannot read to ensure a continuous stream. I have no idea if TiVo supports this or not. The EURS I bought had the Intellipark issue, so I had to do the wdidle fix.

Last edited by quikah : 11-02-2011 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:28 PM   #8235
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I checked, one of the somewhat local Best Buys supposedly has them in stock. I'll probably check again in a few days (not going to go tonight).

tivos can't use the whole 2 TB via normal means. IIRC, it's ~1.26 TB used. That's why I was guessing I could copy to a 1.5 TB drive.

alpine is "basically" pine 5.0 http://www.washington.edu/alpine/
supports UTF8, etc.
So have we established that you have an "IBM compatible" PC running a non-Microsoft OS?

If so, burn yourself a copy of MFS Live and boot from it.

Run pdisk -l and see if you've got an Apple_Free_Partition at least 0.5TB big at the end of that Hitachi.

An Apple_Free_Partition is what the Apple Partition Map calls non-partitioned space. Must be a "think different" thing.


If so, you might be able to use the backup and restore commands to do a full copy of that Hitachi to a 1.5TB drive.

Otherwise, you could use dd_rescue to do it, if you can then repair what will be an incorrect partition table on the copy.

If you use dd_rescue, use the -v option (verbose) to be able to see what's going on during the process.

You still need to try booting that Hitachi from the alternate partitions, and you still need to run Hitachi's own diagnostics on it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:13 PM   #8236
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They are. AFAIK the EURS are EARS drives with a different firmware designed for video streaming, so theoretically they would be better to use than EARS, but I doubt you would be able to see any difference. The spec sheet shows the EURS to be 1 or 2 decibel quieter, but you can adjust the AAM on the EARS to be just as quiet I believe.

The EURS supports some extra commands which allows it to drop sectors it cannot read to ensure a continuous stream. I have no idea if TiVo supports this or not. The EURS I bought had the Intellipark issue, so I had to do the wdidle fix.
FWIW, I'm very happy with the WD20EURS that has been in my HD since June. Have had no problems; did have to use wdidle.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:24 AM   #8237
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FWIW, I'm very happy with the WD20EURS that has been in my HD since June. Have had no problems; did have to use wdidle.
Spamjam, do you only get the 1.26GB from that 2TB or do you get to use the full TB in your HD?
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:02 AM   #8238
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Tivo HD upgrade to 2 TB internal drive

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Spamjam, do you only get the 1.26GB from that 2TB or do you get to use the full TB in your HD?
If you use the JMFS program/procedure/tutorial for Tivo HD(Ugrade Center forum), the full capacity of the 2 TB drive will be utilized and the Tivo will function correctly.

Tivo HD JMFS Upgrade thread

If you use the WinMfs program/procedure in this thread to upgrade to a 2 TB hard drive, because of the way winmfs formats the drive, the full capacity may be realized, but the Tivo will eventually begin to function incorrectly. See from post# 8201
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:15 AM   #8239
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Thank you
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:14 PM   #8240
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I remember reading about a unix based program called Pine. Isn't Alpine a defunct brand of mentholated cigarettes?
Yes, pine is a *nix mail reader. Alpine may very well be a derivative, I don't know. I've only ever used pine.

Edit: I looked it up. Alpine is indeed a re-write of pine.

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I write not just for the person to whom I'm responding but future searchers as well, having learned a lot of what I know about TiVos by having been one. ( a searcher, that is, not a TiVo)
Are you sure about that? In a past life, I was a traffic light.

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If you dd (or dd_rescue) a 2TB drive to a 1.5, assuming that you've got half a TB of unused space at the end of that 2TB (which will show up as an Apple_Free_Partition when you run pdisk -l), you'll have the 2TB's partition table on it, and will probably have to figure out how to re-write it so that the drive reports itself as a 1.5
I'm not entirely sure that is true. It's been a while, so the details are a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall the free space is calculated by pdisk, not actually written to the partition map. I could be wrong about that, but if so, the simple fix is to use pdisk to create the map on the new drive and then dd the partitions over to the new drive, rather than using dd to copy the entire drive. There is an added advantage to this approach in that one may be able to increase the size of some of the partitions beyond the TiVo default. I used this approach on all three of my TiVos to increase the size of the running partitions and allow me to put programs and data in the (formerly) unused partitions:

Code:
HD_Theater:/# pdisk -l /dev/hda

stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
size = 0, blocks = 0
HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=46593, start=0,  total=748516545
Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
 3:               Image Kernel 1                            4096 @ 524352     (   2.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 528448     ( 256.0M)
 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1052736    ( 256.0M)
 6:               Image Kernel 2                            4096 @ 1577024    (   2.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1581120    ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux swap                        262144 @ 2105408    ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2367552    ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2891840    ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3481664    ( 103.3G)
12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220228672  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220818496  ( 128.0G)
14:                 MFS New MFS Application                 1024 @ 489436224  ( 512.0K)
15:                 MFS New MFS Media                 1465647104 @ 489437248  ( 698.8G)
16:          Apple_Free Extra                         1951944816 @ 1955084352 ( 930.7G)
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The MFS Live cd has a utility, I think it's called bootpage
Yes. There are also backports of bootpage out there for several platforms. I have a copy of bootpage on all my Linux workstations so I can work on a TiVo drive, if need be. Ditto pdisk and tivopart (which, among other things, allows an ordinary Linux system to mount the formatted TiVo partitions).

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that has one option that'll let you change the setting to use partion 3 to partition 6, and another that'll let you change the setting to use partition 4 to partition 7. In other words, two steps instead of the one that WinMFS fixboot does it in.
Although not usual, it is perfectly valid to boot from /dev/hda3 with the root on /dev/hda7 or boot from /dev/hda6 with the root on /dev/hda4, so while one would ordinarily swap both, one needn't necessarily do so, and there can be good reasons for not doing so.

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It also has options to let you see if it's currently set to use 3 and 4, or to use 6 and 7.

You should try changing the current Hitachi boot set from which ever it is to the alternate, and see how that works out.
And this may be one of them. Changing only one of the partitions can help pinpoint which one is bad.

Last edited by lrhorer : 11-05-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:34 PM   #8241
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So have we established that you have an "IBM compatible" PC running a non-Microsoft OS?

If so, burn yourself a copy of MFS Live and boot from it.
I suggest not. From his responses above, it sounds like he is running BSD, or maybe a Mac. Rather than run a Live CD Distro, I would recommend he simply load pdisk, bootpage, and tivopart on his active system. Indeed, he may already have pdisk on his system, and he might not need tivopart.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:42 PM   #8242
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Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)
Using pdisk will tell you right off how much free space there is on the drive. Subtract that from the total space, and you know how much is used. If the used space on the original drive is more than 1.5T, then you won't be able to copy directly to the 1.5T drive, and you will have to lose all your recordings. I say, "Lose": of course they will still be on the original drive, but you won't be able to simply copy them to the new drive. Is that an x86 based PC you have? What OS and distro are you running?
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:22 AM   #8243
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I thought I would report I was able to copy and expand my factory TivoHD drive to 2TB using only Winmfs. I think the trick was shutting down and removing the factory drive after copy. I then booted back up and expanded the 2TB in winmfs. I got an error saying I was creating a partition larger than 1TB and I picked yes and presto. I had a 2TB TivoHD drive. Supersized...
Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.

All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.

Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.

Thanks.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:07 AM   #8244
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Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.

All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.

Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.

Thanks.
You need to read this thread: Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:38 AM   #8245
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NOTE: The JMFS software does not work on the OLED S3 Tivos. (AFAIK)
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:52 AM   #8246
dlfl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
NOTE: The JMFS software does not work on the OLED S3 Tivos. (AFAIK)
Correct, I believe. AFAIK, this post by the godfather of this thread, richsadams, is the straight poop:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...17#post8340017
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:41 AM   #8247
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Originally Posted by duh FooL View Post
Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.

All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.

Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.

Thanks.
Keep reading until you get to this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...47#post8760047

The drive crapped out as it began to fill so I would caution to use WinMFS on a 2TB at your own risk. YMMV...

But to answer your questions yes, I am using a 2TB in a TivoHD thanks to lrhorer. I couldn't have done it without him... Again, YMMV....
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:47 AM   #8248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
Code:
HD_Theater:/# pdisk -l /dev/hda

stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
size = 0, blocks = 0
HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=46593, start=0,  total=748516545
Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
 3:               Image Kernel 1                            4096 @ 524352     (   2.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 528448     ( 256.0M)
 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1052736    ( 256.0M)
 6:               Image Kernel 2                            4096 @ 1577024    (   2.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1581120    ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux swap                        262144 @ 2105408    ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2367552    ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2891840    ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3481664    ( 103.3G)
12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220228672  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220818496  ( 128.0G)
14:                 MFS New MFS Application                 1024 @ 489436224  ( 512.0K)
15:                 MFS New MFS Media                 1465647104 @ 489437248  ( 698.8G)
16:          Apple_Free Extra                         1951944816 @ 1955084352 ( 930.7G)
.
Just curious, any reason you stuck with a 128M Swap? I see people increasing their swap size, any benefit in doing that?
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:29 PM   #8249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEyes View Post
FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done
I'm about to start the upgrade process using an iMac. Are you using the iMac using Parallels and XP or Windows 7?

I'm running Parallels 6 & Windows 7.

Thanks,

Don
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #8250
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Originally Posted by Soapm View Post
Just curious, any reason you stuck with a 128M Swap? I see people increasing their swap size, any benefit in doing that?
I'm going to make a wild guess that the "jmfs has no option to change swap partition size" restriction may have had a lot to do with it.
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