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Old 09-14-2011, 04:44 PM   #8101
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If you do decide to go with a WD drive (I did. I installed a WD10EARS in my THD), be sure to search this thread for "wdidle3".
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:47 PM   #8102
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I would suggest going with a 1 Tb drive, as they are cheaper then the smaller capacity drives. You would be getting about 150 hours of digital/HD recording. For the brand, Western Digital is is good. The drive would need to be SATA.

A good online site is amazon.com. They cost under $60.

You would also need to hook the drives up to a PC and copy the drive from the Tivo to the new drive. You cannot let Windows format the drives as they are not readable. Mfslive.org is the site to obtain the proper program. I would suggest WinMFS as its the easiest to use, the other MFS programs require you to make a bootable CD to boot from, with your PC drive disconnected, you would also need to type linux commands.
I agree with this. But if you want to make it really easy you can buy a 1 TB plug-in Tivo-ready drive from DVR_DUDE (Google "eBay DVR_DUDE"). I think the price is about $110. A major potential advantage of the WinMFS method (other than cost) is that your CableCARDs will stay paired, while with the dude drive you will have to do Clear All and Delete and then get your CC's re-paired by the Cable Co., at least on most cable systems. Verizon FIOS is apparently one exception to this.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:06 PM   #8103
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Not just CC pairing. If you go with a pre-configured drive, you will lose all your settings, SPs and current recordings.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:46 PM   #8104
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The 1 TB or larger sounds good to me. The easier the install the better. I am getting new cable cards for the TiVo so if I had to get them paired or hold off on pairing them until I have the upgrade done it would not be a big deal.

Would this one work?
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...6054469&sr=1-3

Is there other hardware that would be needed to complete the install? I have the Torx drivers for the screws.

Last edited by Replacement : 09-14-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:55 PM   #8105
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The 1 TB or larger sounds good to me. The easier the install the better. I am getting new cable cards for the TiVo so if I had to get them paired or hold off on pairing them until I have the upgrade done it would not be a big deal.

Would this one work?
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...6054469&sr=1-3
You would only be able to use about 1.3 gb of the total 1.5 gb. I would try to avoid the 64mb cache (may not be as compatible) and the 7200+ RPM speed models (no benefit).

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...055607&sr=8-28

I believe this works better.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #8106
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You would only be able to use about 1.3 gb of the total 1.5 gb. I would try to avoid the 64mb cache (may not be as compatible) and the 7200+ RPM speed models (no benefit).

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...055607&sr=8-28

I believe this works better.
the 64MB cache itself isn't the potential problem, it's that so far all of the 64MB cache drives are "advanced format" drives.

The WD20EACS has only 16MB of cache, but has 4K sectors.

The WD20EADS has 32MB of cache, but has 512 Byte sectors.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:36 PM   #8107
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Isn't the 4k sectors not tivo friendly?
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:44 PM   #8108
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I have a S3 that I upgraded a long time ago that I now have to return to Tivo - problem is the I used the original 250GB drive for something else and now have a 750GB internal.

Can anyone point me to how to return the S3 back to using the 250GB drive? Is it possible to delete all the recordings and then simply copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the 250GB drive? Are the any parameters that I need to be aware of?

Any help would be greatly appreciated since upgrading posts seem plentiful but its harder to find a sticky on how to revert back to original drives. At this point, I wonder if Tivo would even balk at the returned unit if I left the 750GB version in the S3, but my preference is to return it with the stock drive.
If you are doing the '$150 swap', I would put a dead SATA drive in it... I think they don't even look at anything but the model and service number on the back... giving the new one the same service level and shipping it to you; then sending your old one to the repair shop without ever opening it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:44 PM   #8109
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I just don't get where all the hate for the WDC Advanced format drives is coming from, it seems to be very recent yet many posters myself included are running the WD10EARS without issue.

Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.

If everyone had been having issues with these drives performing poorly I can see the concern, but that's not been the case and it strikes me very much as a chicken little warning.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:49 PM   #8110
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Isn't the 4k sectors not tivo friendly?
It isn't known for certain yet if they'll cause problems or not.

I avoid them because my use for 2TB drives so far has been in computers storing shows copied by TiVo Desktop and I don't want to risk them to potential problems if the workaround for XP and XP itself ever decide not to get along.

As for TiVos, go back a page and start reading the beginnings of the debate with this post

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...35#post8698635

I don't know enough to know for sure if this guy knows what he's talking about, but it certainly sounds like he's put some serious thought and research into it.

(maybe it's richsadams posting under a psuedonym )
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #8111
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I just don't get where all the hate for the WDC Advanced format drives is coming from, it seems to be very recent yet many posters myself included are running the WD10EARS without issue.

Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.

If everyone had been having issues with these drives performing poorly I can see the concern, but that's not been the case and it strikes me very much as a chicken little warning.
I know the 20EARS are 4K, but if the 10EARS are, it's a recent change, so your's may be an older 512 type.

It's not that we know for certain that 4K drives are possibly problematic in a TiVo, it's that we don't absolutely know for certain that they aren't, as so far all TiVos have only shipped with 512 drives, and the Apple Partition Map was certainly developed long, long ago when 512 was a more or less universal constant.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:38 PM   #8112
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Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.
Just because I'm new to this forum does not mean I'm new to TiVo (we've been customers since the release of the S1 and have S1, S2, S3, & S4 devices actively working) or tech. If you want to check my tech street cred just google my username and you'll find the endless technical support forums I've belonged to. As can be seen I've collected significant data to back what I'm saying as well from my posts.

As I amended the S3 and Advanced Format drives will just not be optimal. The 4K tech has been proven to perform horribly on video data streaming/writing which is what a TiVo does all day. This is offset by the advances in drive performance so it's no obvious to the user.

The S4 though has significantly higher demands on it than a a S3 and with the advent of the Q/Elite & Preview those demands are going to become even greater. There is a very good chance that a combination of the extra load on the device in combination with the decreased performance from both un-aligned partitions and non-supporting OS will cause insufficient bandwidth issues. A S4 has 8 possible consecutive data streams (2 HD writes, 1 HD read, 1 download, 1 database, 3 HD Preview streams) and 10 for a Q/Elite. The current generation AV drives are rated for a maximum of 10 simultaneous streams at optimal performance. Introducing the Advance Format into this equation is just a bad idea.

If you want to ignore me feel free, add me to your block list. However this type of tech, performance analysis, benchmarking, etc are what I do and love and thought would be good to inform the community of of the very possible issues with them.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:19 AM   #8113
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I know the 20EARS are 4K, but if the 10EARS are, it's a recent change, so your's may be an older 512 type.

It's not that we know for certain that 4K drives are possibly problematic in a TiVo, it's that we don't absolutely know for certain that they aren't, as so far all TiVos have only shipped with 512 drives, and the Apple Partition Map was certainly developed long, long ago when 512 was a more or less universal constant.
My Oct 2010 WD10EARS has the Adv format warning disclaimer on it, and it's running fine. The WD10EARS has long been a favorite here and that shows that it's been available in Adv format for almost a year. If these have been such horrible drives we should have been hearing about it for the past 12 months.

Brentil I'm not saying your data is bad, I'm suggesting that you swoop in as a new user and one of your earliest contributions is a gloom and doom statement on a favored drive of the community; maybe your extrapolation of the behavior of these drives could be flawed in that the file system in the Tivo's seems to be ok with it, maybe not, but step back and look at how it looks to others.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:23 AM   #8114
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I did amend my statement to say that the S3 devices will just not be optimal not that it'll be an issue. The S4 devices right now are not seeing an issue but what I'm saying is that as someone is looking to buy new drives they should take this data into account especially if they plan to buy S4 Preview boxes. Who knows, they drives might be fast enough still even with Advanced Format, but on the same hand they might not be.

It's not doom & gloom, it's information hypothesis by the given facts. I made it red because this is a 270+ page thread and the red would pop out as someone scrolls by. I personally would rather have all the facts available to me to then make an educated decision. Based on what I've researched I personally would not want to buy a Advance Format drive for a S4 device as I do plan to add the up to 3 supported Preview devices when they come out. I'd rather buy a drive now that doesn't have the possibility of being problematic with future devices and then have to replace it again.

Yes it's true we wont know 100% if they'll have issues or not till someone with a S4 with an AF drives buys Preview devices and finds if they have a problem or not. Those people have a right to have the info so they can make a decision.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:22 PM   #8115
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It's not doom & gloom, it's information hypothesis by the given facts. I made it red because this is a 270+ page thread and the red would pop out as someone scrolls by. I personally would rather have all the facts available to me to then make an educated decision. Based on what I've researched I personally would not want to buy a Advance Format drive for a S4 device as I do plan to add the up to 3 supported Preview devices when they come out. I'd rather buy a drive now that doesn't have the possibility of being problematic with future devices and then have to replace it again.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how someone new can swoop in and post a big red warning about drives that folks have been using for a year and not see how some like myself might take you to task for shouting the warnings a bit too loudly.

I don't at all disagree with your data points, I disagree with the discussion that they're going to be a negative performance in the Tivo file systems, the Tivo file system does not respond to performance "limitations" in the same way as other computing devices, linux devices included, so a warning based on OS observed issues does not apply to a Tivo in the same manner.

Yes I'm beating the dead horse, but I think it's very important in a widely regarded update thread that all sides of the discussion be fairly represented.
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:15 AM   #8116
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Well how about we agree to leave this horse dead then. I've posted my info and you've posted your rebuttal so users can read both and decide what is best for their needs.

With my TiVoHD I've opted to go with the WD10EVDS which is a 1TB AV-GP drive 32 MB 7200 RPM drive. From all my digging this was one of the best 24/7 AV pre-AF drives. It came with the AAM already set to 128 and the wdidle3 process was super easy with the provided iso file. I had both drives out on an open table running next to each other and the WD10EVDS was absolutely silent compared to the stock 160GB WD AV-GP drive that was inside my TiVo. The fact that it is a 7200 RPM drive had me concerned as it is listed as being 2 dba higher than the stock WD drive. It's also going in a room with a fish tank so there's constant ambient noise louder than the TiVo itself.

My old drive had a corrupt header so WinMFS & MFSLive could not work with/repair it so I ended up using InstantCake. Got it back online now and updated to the latest version, I just need to re-pair my CC & SDV now.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:14 PM   #8117
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So if I wanted to keep as close as stock as possible (besides the capacity) I was thinking that this would be the one.
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...6193032&sr=1-1
I know that the S3 only will allow up to 1.3 tb to be available, but for the $10 difference between this and the 1 tb I would like to have the additional space.

If I were to get this would there be any other hardware involved in the swap?
Would I need any cables to prep the HD before the install?
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:51 PM   #8118
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Swapping & Upgrading

I have two TiVo HD's:

TiVoHD1 - has been upgraded to 1TB drive a couple of years ago.
TiVoHD2 - has original drive.

I use TiVoHD1 most of the time, TiVoHD2 is the spare that records what won't record on the other.

Here's what I'd like to do, I'd like to upgrade TiVoHD1 to a 2TB drive and take the drive from there and upgrade the TiVoHD2 with the 1TB drive.

Is that possible to do just like I was upgrading from the original drives? Anything special I need to do (besides running the other software(s) for the 2TB and all that)?
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:55 PM   #8119
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If you are doing the '$150 swap', I would put a dead SATA drive in it... I think they don't even look at anything but the model and service number on the back... giving the new one the same service level and shipping it to you; then sending your old one to the repair shop without ever opening it.

Tivo does not re-use the same TSNs - a refurb unit will have a different TSN. The second set of number is the TSN will be 0011 rather than 0001.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:04 PM   #8120
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I have two TiVo HD's:

TiVoHD1 - has been upgraded to 1TB drive a couple of years ago.
TiVoHD2 - has original drive.

I use TiVoHD1 most of the time, TiVoHD2 is the spare that records what won't record on the other.

Here's what I'd like to do, I'd like to upgrade TiVoHD1 to a 2TB drive and take the drive from there and upgrade the TiVoHD2 with the 1TB drive.

Is that possible to do just like I was upgrading from the original drives? Anything special I need to do (besides running the other software(s) for the 2TB and all that)?

You can simply remove the drive from Tivo1 and install on tivo2, as long as its the same model, such as a 652 to another 652. You would need to run clear & delete everything.

You would need to use JMFS to upgrade to a 2tb drive.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:22 PM   #8121
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You can simply remove the drive from Tivo1 and install on tivo2, as long as its the same model, such as a 652 to another 652. You would need to run clear & delete everything.

You would need to use JMFS to upgrade to a 2tb drive.
Once I have the 2TB drive set up from the 1TB, I guess I would do the same for the other TiVo? I don't want to lose all my shows and season passes, so I don't want to just move the drive from one TiVo to the other, I want to save the season passes from the 2nd TiVo.
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:00 PM   #8122
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The reason you must use c&d everything is because the recordings are encrypted and specific to its own service number. You would need to transfer the recordings to another tivo or PC.
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:31 PM   #8123
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Once I have the 2TB drive set up from the 1TB, I guess I would do the same for the other TiVo? I don't want to lose all my shows and season passes, so I don't want to just move the drive from one TiVo to the other, I want to save the season passes from the 2nd TiVo.
Using the JMFS program, you will effectively clone(then expand) the 1 TB drive to the 2 TB drive, including all shows and settings. The 2 TB drive will then be set up and ready to be used in the Tivo unit that was home for the 1 TB drive. If the 1 TB drive is already "supersized" to full capacity, that will carry over. If the 1 TB drive was not supersized, and you wish to supersize the 2 TB drive, you cannot supersize the Tivo HD with JMFS. You must use the WinMFS program to do the final "supersize step".

Then, you will do the same for unit 2, using the 1 TB drive as the target in cloning and expanding all data from the "original" 160GB drive.

You will need to use the WinMfs program to "Supersize" the 1 TB drive to realize the full recording capacity. For the 160 to 1 TB upgrade, you can use the WinMfs program for the entire upgrade, if desired. It's been a while since I have used WinMfs for an upgrade.

I found the JMFS program to be very simple and intuitive in a Premiere 2 TB upgrade.

Good luck.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:04 PM   #8124
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Great! I was just making sure that I could use the 1TB drive from tivo1 and upgrade the second TiVo. I was afraid that since it was already a TiVo drive that I wouldn't be able to use winmfs to clone the settings from tivo2.

I'm basically doing two upgrades.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:38 PM   #8125
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Great! I was just making sure that I could use the 1TB drive from tivo1 and upgrade the second TiVo. I was afraid that since it was already a TiVo drive that I wouldn't be able to use winmfs to clone the settings from tivo2.

I'm basically doing two upgrades.
It pretty much doesn't matter where or in what a drive was used before.

MFS Live and WinMFS will both overwrite whatever's on the drive (whether you want them to or not once you issue the restore or copy command).

If you want to be sure you can use dd or dd_rescue to copy zeros from /dev/zero to the drive first, but it really isn't necessary, and you don't even have to write zeros to the entire drive, just the first KB or 2 will wipe out all of the partitioning information and make it look like an empty drive.
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:34 PM   #8126
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External Expander -- Western, the one recommended by TiVo

I just bought Western Digital My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 / eSATA Black DVR Expander WDBABT0010HBK-NESN from Newegg, and, in my usual fashion, am seeking advice after fact. Reviews seem to be generally positive, except for the occasional "it crashed my system, and I lost all my shows." Is there really a danger in hooking this thing up?
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:40 PM   #8127
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I just bought Western Digital My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 / eSATA Black DVR Expander WDBABT0010HBK-NESN from Newegg, and, in my usual fashion, am seeking advice after fact. Reviews seem to be generally positive, except for the occasional "it crashed my system, and I lost all my shows." Is there really a danger in hooking this thing up?
It will(should) work like it's supposed to. (Anecdotally) some of the previous WD dvr expanders just seem to have a much shorter life span than one might expect from a new hard drive, for whatever reason. That's typically when they seem to be most involved in "Tivo crashing".

But if you want more capacity, and can't do the modification work yourself...not much choice?

Hopefully, these newer My Books' will have a better record.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:53 PM   #8128
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Does WinMFS give you the same capacity as the MFSLive Boot CD when doing an upgrade? I know WinMFS has the supersize option, but I mean before using that are the upgrades the same capacity?

Thanks,
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Old 09-17-2011, 03:08 PM   #8129
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Does WinMFS give you the same capacity as the MFSLive Boot CD when doing an upgrade? I know WinMFS has the supersize option, but I mean before using that are the upgrades the same capacity?

Thanks,
BGC
Essentially yes, because "under the Windows hood", those same MFStools are being used.
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:41 PM   #8130
ThreeSoFar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwit View Post
It will(should) work like it's supposed to. (Anecdotally) some of the previous WD dvr expanders just seem to have a much shorter life span than one might expect from a new hard drive, for whatever reason. That's typically when they seem to be most involved in "Tivo crashing".

But if you want more capacity, and can't do the modification work yourself...not much choice?

Hopefully, these newer My Books' will have a better record.
That's the thing, though. It's VERY easy to do the upgrade work yourself. Check out the upgrade threads, and if you can plop in a 2TB drive (assuming you have a Premiere or HDTiVO), you'll have a backup drive on the shelf (your original tivo drive) and 150 hours of HD goodness.

Adding the expander, however good its quality, adds several more points of failure, any one of which will make all your shows unviewable:
  • Cable ends/cable (2 ends, one cable)
  • Cable jacks (2)
  • External unit power supply
  • External unit drive

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