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Old 10-29-2010, 03:40 PM   #6781
richsadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerz View Post
I thought I would post a quick update: It is going on seven months since I upgraded my THD with a 2TB drive using the Mr. Broflovski's image. My Tivo has not hiccuped once in the past 7 seven months and I have still not been able to fill it

See my original post here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...96#post7861096
Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:14 PM   #6782
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Your current setup causes TiVo to stripe recordings across the two drives. As such, there is (currently) no way to combine that data to a single drive as MFS programs see them as two separate drives. My understanding is that when the two drives are blessed or "married" (using winMFS, etc.) they are seen as a single drive and subsequently the data can be transferred to a single drive.

Although I've never tried it (not a fan of external drives) I understand both scenarios to be true based on numerous reports here and on the MFSLive forum. Spike is the author of winMFS and there were probably hundreds of folks hoping to do what you'd like to do when the upgrade process started. So if there were a way to do it, I'm pretty confident he or someone else would have figured it out by now. IIRC Spike posted some pretty detailed information about why it wouldn't work a few years ago, but it would probably take some digging to find it now.
Would you mind clarrifying something for me: I have two drives, both 1 tb, married via winMFS. Since they were married via winMFS, does that mean that I CAN preserve the recordings to a new drive(s)? And if I can, is it better to go with a single 2tb or 2 1tb as I have now?
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:38 AM   #6783
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Would you mind clarrifying something for me: I have two drives, both 1 tb, married via winMFS. Since they were married via winMFS, does that mean that I CAN preserve the recordings to a new drive(s)? And if I can, is it better to go with a single 2tb or 2 1tb as I have now?
My understanding is that yes, if you used MFSTools or winMFS originally you should be able to combine the 2 1TB drives (that were blessed during the upgrade) to a single 2TB drive. IIRC you have to use the mfslive linux cd method. That said, I've never done that so I would do some research over on the MFSLive Forum to find out how to proceed. As mentioned, I'm not a big fan of multiple drives simply because there is more than one point of possible failure however if what you have is working there's probably little reason to change for change sake.

If you do go down the path of combining the two anything you can share would be welcome! TIA.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:36 AM   #6784
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And it also says a Host Bus Adapter is required......
I wanted to double-check my facts before I responded to this bit. First of all, for the $239 price, the drive kit includes a little Highpoint Technologies HBA. Evidently it only comes with a low profile PCI bracket, but the HBA is included. Secondly, the HBA is only required if the system is booting off the drive and the motherboard / existing adapter does not support UEFI. My systems don't boot off high capacity drives (except of course the TiVo).
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:55 AM   #6785
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Arrow

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Originally Posted by emerz View Post
I thought I would post a quick update: It is going on seven months since I upgraded my THD with a 2TB drive using the Mr. Broflovski's image. My TiVo has not hiccuped once in the past 7 seven months and I have still not been able to fill it

See my original post here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...96#post7861096
I fill my four 2TB (WD20EADS) "Broflovski" imaged TiVo HDs quite quickly. Then, on a (menu selected) reboot, they'll go into the "GSOD loop", and I've never been able to recover. I just keep re-imaging at the rate of 1-2 times per month (spread across the four). I've swapped in spare drives and ran full diags on the drives that came out.

There has never been a problem with any of the drives. I'm wondering if 32MB cache, versus 2MB the the stock drives have, may be a factor... Perhaps data is getting lost due to the extra cache...

There has to be a better way. I used a hex editor to look at the logs (sector by sector) and found entries like "I-Node table size is 262144 entries for 200000 active nodes max" & something like "HDA9\VAR not cleanly unmounted....".

BTW: What size is your Swap partition? Did you leave it set at the WinMFS default of 128MB, or did you change it? Could you share the specifics of what drive you used, how much cache it has, etc? It would be much appreciated.
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Old 10-30-2010, 07:57 AM   #6786
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Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
I fill my four 2TB (WD20EADS) "Broflovski" imaged TiVo HDs quite quickly. Then, on a (menu selected) reboot, they'll go into the "GSOD loop", and I've never been able to recover. I just keep re-imaging at the rate of 1-2 times per month (spread across the four). I've swapped in spare drives and ran full diags on the drives that came out.

There has never been a problem with any of the drives. I'm wondering if 32MB cache, versus 2MB the the stock drives have, may be a factor... Perhaps data is getting lost due to the extra cache...

There has to be a better way. I used a hex editor to look at the logs (sector by sector) and found entries like "I-Node table size is 262144 entries for 200000 active nodes max" & something like "HDA9\VAR not cleanly unmounted....".

BTW: What size is your Swap partition? Did you leave it set at the WinMFS default of 128MB, or did you change it? Could you share the specifics of what drive you used, how much cache it has, etc? It would be much appreciated.
This is NOT normal behavior for the 2TB image. Can you unplug and restart successfully? If so, you likely have the "idle" problem and just need to run WDIDLE on the drives.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:02 AM   #6787
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!
Rich,

The 2TB image is used just like an instantcake image would be used, creating a "new" tivo.

You can not save recordings; indeed would need to have CCs re-paired (unless you have a system with unpaired cards like I do )

Usage is straight forward. Get the image (the hard part), fire up winmfs, image drive, install.

I really wish there was a way the image could be distributed without fear of reprisal from Tivo. It's a shame that more people can't have 2TB Tivo HDs.

I'd be glad to share the image if it weren't for risk of being C&D'd by Tivo. But I'm not doing anything - helpful as it may be - that may get me in legal hot water.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:52 AM   #6788
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This is NOT normal behavior for the 2TB image. Can you unplug and restart successfully? If so, you likely have the "idle" problem and just need to run WDIDLE on the drives.
That's not it at all. All the drives had been WDIDLE3 /D (set to disabled) and also /R (verified) that it stayed that way, upon every time that I have had to hook them up to my computer.

I have also tried the /S300 (set to 5 minutes), but that makes no difference.

Also, from what I have been able to view of the system logs, the newly released 11.0j software checks the status of this setting, and has the ability to manage it now. So, if that function works properly (and also works on drives that aren't TiVo supplied), technically the need for changing the setting should be a thing of the past.

Actually, from the wording in the logs, it not only checks and sets the PM settings of the drive at every reboot, but also checks "if firmware update is required". So, I'm guessing that with the original stock drives, the TiVo can actually apply a firmware update. Exactly what this "firmware update" includes, what it changes, and what the TiVo desired settings are, are not something that I could deduce from looking at logs, via raw sector reading with a hex editor.

Perhaps this pre-boot "inquiry" that reads (and records) the drive model, serial number, PM capabilities, feature sets, firmware revision, and all the other parameters (such as cache size, maximum transfer rate, supported transfer modes, drive geometry, and so on) is causing some sort of confusion for the TiVo's kernel, causing non-TiVo-supplied, or non-officially-supported, drives to be set to parameters that don't work so well. This is just conjecture, at this point in my search for "what the deal is".

I saw that in one log instance, the kernel had set the drive to operate in PIO mode. This doesn't seem on-par with getting maximum performance, considering that the TiVo HD SATA controller supports DMA and UDMA modes.

Another observation, is that with the WD20EADS drives, sequential read and write performance drastically decreases as the drive gets to the last 1/4 of its capacity. This is performing the testing using SATA2 directly to my computer and using a wide array of drive testing/validating/torture testings tools.

If I'm in some minority, actually always running on a full drive, maybe others arent getting to that last 1/4, where the performance drops off...

Last edited by tcfcameron : 10-30-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:00 AM   #6789
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I offered to upgrade my friend's TiVo HD as a birthday present (labor only, he will purchase the drive). Last time I upgraded a TiVo was when I put a 1TB drive in my Series 3. I was telling him that we'd put a 2TB drive in his, not knowing about the limitations. So it looks like maybe a 1.5TB drive would be the best, simplest install. But, I can't find any recommendations about which drive to pick.

Anyone have suggestions for a good, reliable, quiet 1.5TB drive?
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:15 AM   #6790
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I offered to upgrade my friend's TiVo HD as a birthday present (labor only, he will purchase the drive). Last time I upgraded a TiVo was when I put a 1TB drive in my Series 3. I was telling him that we'd put a 2TB drive in his, not knowing about the limitations. So it looks like maybe a 1.5TB drive would be the best, simplest install. But, I can't find any recommendations about which drive to pick.

Anyone have suggestions for a good, reliable, quiet 1.5TB drive?
Western Digital's Green Power drives are very quiet, even with the AAM turned off. If you want the closest to what TiVo uses, that would be the AV-GP line.

Unless you want to waste space, without "special" tools/images/workarounds, the largest amount of space a TiVo HD or Series 3 (non-XL) can handle is 1.2TB. So, you can either use a 1TB drive and use all of it, or you can use a 1.5TB drive and only be able to use 1.2TB of it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:39 AM   #6791
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Arrow The 1-2TB "Broflovski" / Hybrid TiVo HD Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!
Another poster already pretty much gave you the down-low on your questions.

The Broflovski image was an experiment that Mr. Broflovski shared with a few friends. He allowed his friends to share, but only if they could be trusted to keep the image from becoming a standard circulation. He never intended, nor wanted it to be "distributed".

I'm not aware of any public "instructions" provided for it, by the author, anyway.

It's a TiVo HD XL image, that has had the XL specific data stripped out of it, so that upon installation in a standard TiVo HD, it "repairs" itself, and fills in what has been stripped out.

This was necessary, as when TiVo noticed people were just putting XL images onto their non-XL units, TiVo made a change that would cause those people to run out of guide data and be unable to download it, thus bricking those units.

It had its flaws from the get-go. Once you use WinMFS to install it, you can't do a truncated backup (the backup will seemingly work, but the restore will fail). You can only do a full backup (copy), which means having to have an additional identical drive, for each TiVo, solely for the backup.

So, it can be a real PITA to work with, especially if your CableCo insists on rolling a truck, just to pair your cable card each time you install/re-install the image.

I think that Comer's tools are maturing to the point of soon finally eliminating the need for this image.

He'd probably have a solution done and tested, if he actually had a TiVo HD to work with. Anybody have a spare to donate to the cause?

I'm weary of the anecdotal reports of his current tools working with the HD. I'd rather have him be the judge of that.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:40 AM   #6792
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Western Digital's Green Power drives are very quiet, even with the AAM turned off. If you want the closest to what TiVo uses, that would be the AV-GP line.

Unless you want to waste space, without "special" tools/images/workarounds, the largest amount of space a TiVo HD or Series 3 (non-XL) can handle is 1.2TB. So, you can either use a 1TB drive and use all of it, or you can use a 1.5TB drive and only be able to use 1.2TB of it.
How about this Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS at Amazon?
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:26 PM   #6793
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That would be one that is closest to what many here use. The EARS line is the direct replacement (superseding model) for the EADS line, and the "advanced format technology" that makes it different hasn't been reported to be a problem here for TiVo use.

Some pay a bit more, and get the AV variety of the same. But, as it has been hashed over many times here, the extra AV features aren't utilized by the TiVo. Some argue that non-AV drives aren't meant to run 24/7, but they are the minority. Just because the the AV specs say designed for 24x7, doesn't mean the lack of that statement disqualifies the non-AV.

If you shop around, you might find an AV-GP, of the same capacity, for roughly the same price. Some people like knowing that the drive they are using was designed for AV/DVR use.

I hope this helps.
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:24 PM   #6794
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Yes that does help, thanks!

Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:16 PM   #6795
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The 2TB image is used just like an instantcake image would be used, creating a "new" tivo.
Thanks for that...all good info and basically what I thought. I wish there were something similar for the Series3.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:26 PM   #6796
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Yes that does help, thanks!

Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive
That's a very good option, especially for $5 more. If you get it (and have the patience) can you try doing the upgrade w/o tweaking the Intellipark feature (running wdidle3.exe) first to see if it will boot up and if it does if it will reboot from a menu restart? Either way could you also post the manufacture date? It would really help solidify the data on these drives. TIA.

I'm really hoping that we'll get to the point where the WD GP drives can be fully recommended without any caveats once again.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:39 PM   #6797
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Yes that does help, thanks!

Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive
Yep, go for it, that's your best option. Definitely worth the extra $5
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:54 PM   #6798
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That's a very good option, especially for $5 more. If you get it (and have the patience) can you try doing the upgrade w/o tweaking the Intellipark feature (running wdidle3.exe) first to see if it will boot up and if it does if it will reboot from a menu restart? Either way could you also post the manufacture date? It would really help solidify the data on these drives. TIA.

I'm really hoping that we'll get to the point where the WD GP drives can be fully recommended without any caveats once again.
So I'll upgrade to the new drive by using MFS Tools to copy his existing recordings, etc. Install the drive in the TiVo HD and see if it boots and will do a menu restart. If it does then that means Intellipark is not an issue? If it doesn't then I just need to boot the CD with wdidle3.exe and run it to turn off that feature, pop the drive back in the TiVo HD and it should be fine?
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:23 PM   #6799
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Wow,

I am really surprised to hear of others having issues with Mr. Broflovski's hybrid image.

As I have stated in my first post I upgrading using a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB, using wdidle to set the idle time to 5 minutes.

The procedure was simple. Connect the new drive to a computer SATA port and use WinMFS to "restore" the hybrid image to the new drive.

I have never tried making backup of the imaged drive so I cannot speak to whether or not that is working.

What I do know is that my Tivo has worked 100% since the upgrade. I guess I will have to cross my fingers that it continues.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:22 AM   #6800
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Hurry! Great deal on 2 TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS - $79.99

For those looking for an upgrade drive (with the Broflovski image or a machine that supports 2 TB) there's a great deal at NewEgg on the 2 TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS drive. You can get if for $79.99 (I just did) shipped for free, most won't have to pay tax (California will, tho). The product can be found at the link below (or you can search the model # at NewEgg):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136344

It will show up at $99.99. Then use the following code in the 'promo' field when you're in the shopping cart/checkout area:

EMCZYZX48

This should lower the price to $79.99, which was my shipped price. I'd hurry if you're interested, cuz when NewEgg has a deal like this people find out & it tends to sell out quickly. Hope this helps some of you here who have been waiting on something like this.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:34 AM   #6801
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For those looking for an upgrade drive (with the Broflovski image or a machine that supports 2 TB) there's a great deal at NewEgg on the 2 TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS drive. You can get if for $79.99 (I just did) shipped for free, most won't have to pay tax (California will, tho). The product can be found at the link below (or you can search the model # at NewEgg):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136344

It will show up at $99.99. Then use the following code in the 'promo' field when you're in the shopping cart/checkout area:

EMCZYZX48

This should lower the price to $79.99, which was my shipped price. I'd hurry if you're interested, cuz when NewEgg has a deal like this people find out & it tends to sell out quickly. Hope this helps some of you here who have been waiting on something like this.
Quick question. What's the difference between this drive and the WD20EARS. Any reason I shouldn't go for this drive?
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:38 AM   #6802
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Wow,

I am really surprised to hear of others having issues with Mr. Broflovski's hybrid image.

As I have stated in my first post I upgrading using a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB, using wdidle to set the idle time to 5 minutes.

The procedure was simple. Connect the new drive to a computer SATA port and use WinMFS to "restore" the hybrid image to the new drive.

I have never tried making backup of the imaged drive so I cannot speak to whether or not that is working.

What I do know is that my Tivo has worked 100% since the upgrade. I guess I will have to cross my fingers that it continues.
Quick question on using WinMFS. When I do the restore, do I need to have WinMFS expand the drive (essentialy the MFSAdd function) and also have WinMfs do the Supersize. Basically steps 18 and 19 of the upgrade the internal drive instructions. Are they necessary with the Broflovski image upgrade? Thanks for the help.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:52 AM   #6803
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So I'll upgrade to the new drive by using MFS Tools to copy his existing recordings, etc. Install the drive in the TiVo HD and see if it boots and will do a menu restart. If it does then that means Intellipark is not an issue? If it doesn't then I just need to boot the CD with wdidle3.exe and run it to turn off that feature, pop the drive back in the TiVo HD and it should be fine?
Yes, yes and yes. Actually you don't need to disable Intellipark, just set it to 300 seconds/five minutes (the command is "wdidle3 /S300" - w/o the quotes) and it s/b fine. Hopefully you won't have to mess with it though. Happy upgrading!

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Old 10-31-2010, 12:55 AM   #6804
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Quick question. What's the difference between this drive and the WD20EARS. Any reason I shouldn't go for this drive?
The EADS is just an earlier model. For the purposes of upgrading TiVo there's no difference; both are being used successfully by folks here.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:09 AM   #6805
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The EADS is just an earlier model. For the purposes of upgrading TiVo there's no difference; both are being used successfully by folks here.
Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:36 AM   #6806
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Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.
Rich or someone else can better answer the question about Intellipark. I thought I'd heard more recent shipments/batches have had adjustments in the firmware, but I don't know if it obviates the need to run WDIDLE.

As far as going to a friend, won't you have to do that anyways for the upgrade if you have a desktop with IDE drives? (Since the upgrade drive is SATA) Why not kill two birds with one stone & do it in the same trip? I'm guessing you'll have to use another machine for the upgrade, unless you've got some USB drive docks for SATA drives (which, BTW, I've been using for upgrades for friends/family & they make life SO much easier - no need to be constantly opening/closing computer case & installing/removing drives).

My suggestion (if above assumptions are correct) would be to get the NewEgg drive before it goes out of stock. $80 for a 2 TB WD20EADS seems like a heckuva price for a drive a lot of people here are using. If you happen to use a cashback site like FatWallet or Ebates, you can probably get about an additional 2% rebate. Hopefully I'm having a little bit of a Rich Adams moment & giving something back to the community (bows to the master).
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:02 AM   #6807
richsadams
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Originally Posted by NYHeel View Post
Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.
It's really a crap shoot for both drives now. I would think the EADS would have an earlier manufacture date than the EARS, but you just won't know until you open the box...either one could still need it if they were built before Sept. 15th or so.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:04 AM   #6808
richsadams
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Originally Posted by delgadobb View Post
Rich or someone else can better answer the question about Intellipark. I thought I'd heard more recent shipments/batches have had adjustments in the firmware, but I don't know if it obviates the need to run WDIDLE.

As far as going to a friend, won't you have to do that anyways for the upgrade if you have a desktop with IDE drives? (Since the upgrade drive is SATA) Why not kill two birds with one stone & do it in the same trip? I'm guessing you'll have to use another machine for the upgrade, unless you've got some USB drive docks for SATA drives (which, BTW, I've been using for upgrades for friends/family & they make life SO much easier - no need to be constantly opening/closing computer case & installing/removing drives).

My suggestion (if above assumptions are correct) would be to get the NewEgg drive before it goes out of stock. $80 for a 2 TB WD20EADS seems like a heckuva price for a drive a lot of people here are using. If you happen to use a cashback site like FatWallet or Ebates, you can probably get about an additional 2% rebate. Hopefully I'm having a little bit of a Rich Adams moment & giving something back to the community (bows to the master).
I think you're right on...about the options, not the silly "master" thing.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:05 AM   #6809
linetest
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I was able to finally replace my dead drive with a new WD 1TB drive using Instantcake. All the setup was completed through Tivo. It records fine. But some channels I switch to show the picture for about 2 seconds then it gives me a Cablecard gray/black screen saying to call Time Warner to activate. I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
Thanks.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:44 AM   #6810
Robbdoe1
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Originally Posted by linetest View Post
I was able to finally replace my dead drive with a new WD 1TB drive using Instantcake. All the setup was completed through Tivo. It records fine. But some channels I switch to show the picture for about 2 seconds then it gives me a Cablecard gray/black screen saying to call Time Warner to activate. I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
Thanks.

Do a hard reboot by unplugging the power cord waiting for the drive to spin down and replugging it in. See if that helps. It sounds like the Cable Cards are not paired correctly. That would be a Time Warner issue.

Robb
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