TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2010, 10:18 AM   #5341
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
Hey Rich. Have you ever tried a dual dock copy yourself? I'm just curious, since I have not tried it. But according to what I've read, it can clone a drive within it's own device.

So my thought was, once you start the procedure (either via USB or eSATA), wouldn't the transfer occur within the docking station itself? Or do you think it would still have to go to the PC from the source and back for the destination? Just curious.

When I do get one, I can test it out. If there is no hdd light activity on the PC, that would be a good indication that it is not using the PC. I guess the best test would be to use a USB connection and see if it goes as fast as an SATA connection.
I haven't upgraded that way myself. I've always connected the drives directly to the MB on my computer. Since data throughput is much higher a direct SATA connection is much faster than a USB/SATA or eSATA connection if you're preserving the settings and recordings. However as bciocco and others here have posted, using a USB dual drive docking station does work quite nicely, it just takes a while longer.

Since the upgrade doesn't actually clone the drive the heavy lifting would still be handled by the PC's CPU and memory as it runs winMFS or MFSTools. The PC's HDD wouldn't necessarily be active for anything other than running the MFS program (and copying/restoring a truncated backup if you went that direction). Watching the activity in Task Manager (even better Process Explorer) will show you what's going on inside your computer even when the HDD is idle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the feedback. So, it does appear that the docking station is transferring data direct from drive to drive.

There is an option (I believe) to clone disk to disk with no PC. Would that work for a TiVo without WinMFS? I'm not sure. But, I might just try it, out of curiousity, since it should be an exact clone.
No, as mentioned above, you're not cloning the drive. Some data is being copied over, but there are a number of other activities (partition changes, expansion, etc.) going on as well. If you were to clone the drive you would end up with the identical recording space, etc. on the new drive...and that would kind of defeat the purpose of upgrading.

Last edited by richsadams : 03-18-2010 at 10:24 AM.
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 10:55 AM   #5342
pl1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MA
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
No, as mentioned above, you're not cloning the drive. Some data is being copied over, but there are a number of other activities (partition changes, expansion, etc.) going on as well. If you were to clone the drive you would end up with the identical recording space, etc. on the new drive...and that would kind of defeat the purpose of upgrading.
OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).
pl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 11:29 AM   #5343
cjv2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).
I tried that. Didn't work. In my case, the subsequent add operation blew up WinMFS and torched the partition table.

Even more interesting than that, the partition table on the pre-failed-MFSADD clone did not match the partition table I got out of doing a truncated backup/restore. I still have no idea why.

To be fair, the image tool I used could hypothetically have been at issue, but I really can't see how - pre-failed-MFSADD, the clone worked great.
__________________
I have a TivoHD with 1TB of storage. Don't make me use it.
cjv2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 11:51 AM   #5344
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).
Sticking with the upgrade instructions and flow is just about the only way to guarantee a positive outcome. Of course as long as you keep your original backup (ideally the original hard drive itself) there's no harm in trying whatever you can imagine though. You can always start over again.
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 12:15 PM   #5345
pl1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MA
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjv2 View Post
I tried that. Didn't work. In my case, the subsequent add operation blew up WinMFS and torched the partition table.

Even more interesting than that, the partition table on the pre-failed-MFSADD clone did not match the partition table I got out of doing a truncated backup/restore. I still have no idea why.

To be fair, the image tool I used could hypothetically have been at issue, but I really can't see how - pre-failed-MFSADD, the clone worked great.
Hmm. I do remember you mentioning that earlier in this thread come to think of it.
pl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #5346
pl1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MA
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Sticking with the upgrade instructions and flow is just about the only way to guarantee a positive outcome. Of course as long as you keep your original backup (ideally the original hard drive itself) there's no harm in trying whatever you can imagine though. You can always start over again.
I hear ya. No sense reinventing the wheel. WinMFS does a great job as it stands. I don't know any other utility (for anything) that is that easy and works as fast as it does.
pl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 12:28 PM   #5347
cjv2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
Hmm. I do remember you mentioning that earlier in this thread come to think of it.
Yep. I'd love to know why it didn't work. Have never figured it out.
__________________
I have a TivoHD with 1TB of storage. Don't make me use it.
cjv2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #5348
pl1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MA
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjv2 View Post
Yep. I'd love to know why it didn't work. Have never figured it out.
I'll give it a shot. I have two extra 1t drives to play with. I can clone an original 250g to a 1t and try mfsadd. I'll let you know once I get the dual dock in a couple weeks (from Hong Kong or somewhere like that).
pl1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 12:38 PM   #5349
cjv2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl1 View Post
I'll give it a shot. I have two extra 1t drives to play with. I can clone an original 250g to a 1t and try mfsadd. I'll let you know once I get the dual dock in a couple weeks (from Hong Kong or somewhere like that).
Awesome. Please do. In the name of science.
__________________
I have a TivoHD with 1TB of storage. Don't make me use it.
cjv2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 03:57 PM   #5350
ayman86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 24
question for you all.

i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would you forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?

how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?
ayman86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 04:03 PM   #5351
Spenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 82
I'd use it for a few weeks to make sure it's OK, then upgrade the drive. Save the original one, and if anything ever goes wrong, just swap the original back in. It's the same warranty risk we all take when we upgrade a Tivo bought new.

If you're recording HD, the original drive is next to useless with only 20 hrs capacity.
Spenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 04:39 PM   #5352
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayman86 View Post
question for you all.

i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would you forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?

how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?
I'd echo Spenner's recommendation...be sure it's working properly for a little while then upgrade. Although TiVo is aware of the upgrade (reflected in their logs) they tend to turn a blind eye if something else goes wrong that wasn't associated. If you call for support and mention the upgrade that's the end of the conversation. But if you keep the original drive you can always reinstall it for a return. FWIW hard drive failure is the number one TiVo problem (by far). Odds are there's nothing else that will give you any trouble.

Enjoy your new TiVo!
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 04:41 PM   #5353
ayman86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 24
thanks for the suggestions.
ayman86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 05:08 PM   #5354
justen_m
Registered User
 
justen_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boise Idaho
Posts: 6,492
I had my TivoHD only 5 months before I decided to do a 1tb internal upgrade. I don't care about the warranty. All the Tivo failures I've seen have been hard drive related, so I really just backed up my system with an upgrade. People with lifetime will probably disagree, but for a monthly puke like me, it was a no brainer.

[edit] echo spenner EDIT or My Expander related.

Last edited by justen_m : 03-18-2010 at 05:17 PM.
justen_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 11:15 PM   #5355
lex3001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 54
Smile Upgrade 160GB to 1.5TB to 1.5TB and get 198 HD hours instead of just 180 HD hours

This has been bugging me for a while since it is not in the FAQ, but I wanted everyone to know.

I took my new stock TiVo HD 160GB drive and upgraded it with WinMFS to a 1.5TB drive. I supersized.

This took me up to 180 HD hours according to TiVo. This is about what you would expect with usable space of 1.26 TB (see the FAQ if you have no idea what I am talking about... its the 1.1TB partition limit plus the original 160GB partition size = 1.26TB total usable space).

DRUM ROLL PLEASE...

I decided to use a different 1.5TB drive in the TiVo and used WinMFS to copy the first 1.5TB drive to the new 1.5TB drive. I followed all instructions and chose NOT to expand the partitions beyond TiVo's capacity, as advised.

When I booted up with my second 1.5TB drive, the TiVo now has 198 HD hours (!!). Where'd that extra 18 hours come from? Seems to correspond to an extra 10-12GB or so of usable space. So not all 1.5 TB yet, but at least 1.35 to 1.37 TB.

Anyone have a good explanation for this? Is my TiVo on crack, or did I just score the jackpot of free HD recording space? I wonder, if I did yet another copy in WinMFS to another 1.5TB drive what would happen... ;-)
lex3001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:06 AM   #5356
cliffdwelling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 20
Smile Successfull

All's well with my WD10EARS 1TB upgrade. Plugged it in today and it booted up fine. It was making a little more clicking noises than I liked and remembered that I hadn't set the AAM .

I downloaded WinAAM and the setting was 204
.
After setting to 128 and inserting back into the Tivo Box it has been churning away recording March Madness all day.

I wish that I had upgraded a long time ago. It is great to not have to worry about recording space ---at least for the time being.

I got an incredible deal on this drive and hope it stands the test of time
An incredible 50.00 upgrade!

Thanks for all the help.
cliffdwelling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:32 AM   #5357
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by lex3001 View Post
I took my new stock TiVo HD 160GB drive and upgraded it with WinMFS to a 1.5TB drive. I supersized.

This took me up to 180 HD hours according to TiVo. This is about what you would expect with usable space of 1.26 TB (see the FAQ if you have no idea what I am talking about... its the 1.1TB partition limit plus the original 160GB partition size = 1.26TB total usable space).

DRUM ROLL PLEASE...

I decided to use a different 1.5TB drive in the TiVo and used WinMFS to copy the first 1.5TB drive to the new 1.5TB drive. I followed all instructions and chose NOT to expand the partitions beyond TiVo's capacity, as advised.

When I booted up with my second 1.5TB drive, the TiVo now has 198 HD hours (!!). Where'd that extra 18 hours come from? Seems to correspond to an extra 10-12GB or so of usable space. So not all 1.5 TB yet, but at least 1.35 to 1.37 TB.
Per Section V, #5 of the FAQ you're exactly where you're supposed to be, 1.26TB total. If TiVo only showed 180 HD recording hours the first time you upgraded, Supersize did not take (even though you may have clicked on it).

Enjoy the new real estate!
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:34 AM   #5358
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffdwelling View Post
All's well with my WD10EARS 1TB upgrade. Plugged it in today and it booted up fine.
Sweet! Did you disable the Intellipark "feature" (or extend the time out)?

Enjoy!
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 08:16 AM   #5359
Brighton Line
Registered User
 
Brighton Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 132
Last night I installed a Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM HD31000, I can't beleive how easy it was and I copied over all my recorded programs.

My only questions was with this 1TB drive in a Series 3 it is reporting only 142 Hours of HD available to record. Anyone have any ideas this is less then what is reported in the beginning of this thread (Section IV #6)?

TIA
Brighton Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 08:19 AM   #5360
rocko
Cuckoo for TiVo
 
rocko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northeast Joisey
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brighton Line View Post
Last night I installed a Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM HD31000, I can't beleive how easy it was and I copied over all my recorded programs.

My only questions was with this 1TB drive in a Series 3 it is reporting only 142 Hours of HD available to record. Anyone have any ideas this is less then what is reported in the beginning of this thread (Section IV #6)?

TIA
Ummm, maybe because you forgot to supersize it?

FWIW, you can supersize it without hurting/redoing the upgrade.
__________________
Scully: "Is that a hound I hear baying in the moor ?"
Mulder: "No. That was a right-cheek sneak."

P4XL x 2 - Lifetime
P - Lifetime
HD - 1TB WD10EVVS - Lifetime
rocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 08:29 AM   #5361
rainbow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 190
usb-to-esata adapter or dual deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayman86 View Post
question for you all.

i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would you forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?

how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?
If you can get a good deal on a dual deck, it would be worth the little bit of extra $ to go with that, rather than those pesky usb-to-estate/ide adapters.

I ended up spending more $ than I should have as I had orig ordered 1 adapter; then had to order a 2nd as I wanted to transfer recordings as well.

The adapters come with no instructions, and if you don't really know what you are doing, they could be hooked up incorrectly; or worse. Also, the ones I got were cheap and reflected that in their quality.

I got the Cavalry dual deck that bciocco had found a good buy on and provided a link to (see post #5226). It arrived last nt, and was a breeze
to use. After the hrs the previous wknd I had wasted trying to get those adapters to work correctly, it was a pleasure to see how that dock worked.

I did double check that link and buy.com is no longer offering that deck - thank God I jumped on it when I did. Guess it might have been a close-out or something, so thanks bciocco


Anyway, thought I would post my experience. If someone else had posted an experience like this previously, I might have saved myself some time/effort/$.
rainbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:45 AM   #5362
cliffdwelling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Sweet! Did you disable the Intellipark "feature" (or extend the time out)?

Enjoy!
Yes, bootable CD with wdidle3.exe, right?

Everything reported right as per instructions .

I had my computers' hard drive installed at the same time and it tried to reset it,
but reported that it wasn't a WD drive and I hope did not change any of its' settings.

I must have missed the warning or skipped a step per instructions.
cliffdwelling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:54 AM   #5363
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffdwelling View Post
Yes, bootable CD with wdidle3.exe, right?

Everything reported right as per instructions .

I had my computers' hard drive installed at the same time and it tried to reset it,
but reported that it wasn't a WD drive and I hope did not change any of its' settings.

I must have missed the warning or skipped a step per instructions.
Sounds good. If your PC's drive is not WD it shouldn't have affected it. Enjoy!
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:00 PM   #5364
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.

Can someone with this new software test and confirm?
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:00 PM   #5365
HazelW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. Va
Posts: 217
Supersize from Instantcake?

Can you supersize an instantcake install, or does it just work with a WinMFS install?
HazelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #5366
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelW View Post
Can you supersize an instantcake install, or does it just work with a WinMFS install?
You can "Supersize" an InstantCake install using WinMFS. There is no way to "Supersize" from within the InstantCake software.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:23 PM   #5367
richsadams
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.

Can someone with this new software test and confirm?
That would be very good news indeed. Hopefully someone that's ready to upgrade with a new WD drive can hold off until they receive the v11.0f update and then try it.

Did they mention any additional update features?
richsadams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:29 PM   #5368
rocko
Cuckoo for TiVo
 
rocko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northeast Joisey
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
That would be very good news indeed. Hopefully someone that's ready to upgrade with a new WD drive can hold off until they receive the v11.0f update and then try it.

Did they mention any additional update features?
Or we could bump the Intellipark value back down on a box that already has 11.0f. Not me, tho ...
__________________
Scully: "Is that a hound I hear baying in the moor ?"
Mulder: "No. That was a right-cheek sneak."

P4XL x 2 - Lifetime
P - Lifetime
HD - 1TB WD10EVVS - Lifetime
rocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:46 PM   #5369
cherry ghost
Registered User
 
cherry ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.

Can someone with this new software test and confirm?
Any chance it was a pm from a TiVo employee?

If true, I'll probably get one and save my Hitachi for something else since I haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade yet.
cherry ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:57 PM   #5370
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post
Any chance it was a pm from a TiVo employee?
No, it was just a regular member who added a new WD10EADS under 11.0f without disabling Intellipark. They didn't mention anything else. If someone can confirm that, I'll update the first post.

I already deleted the message as my inbox is nearly full (148/150).
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |