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Old 03-07-2010, 06:37 PM   #5191
MPSAN
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Looks like we both posted at the same time...but I believe that for XP Pro SP3 there are no drivers to install.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:43 PM   #5192
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Let me try and help you here .. The Red SATA cable .. one end should be connected to your hard drive and the other end to the top portion of the SATA to USB adapter. Ther other multicolor cable is the power supply cable, Connect one end to your SATA hard drive and the other end to the power adapter cable end of the SATA to USB adapter. Now connect the USB cable of your adapter to your computer's USB port. Then connect the Power Supply cable of the SATA to USB adapter to a power supply outlet. This should install the necessary drivers on your computer for the adapter you bought and you should be good to prepare the drive for WinMFS.
Yeah! Many thanks for your instructions - never would have figured it out.

Now, I am too tired, howover, to deal w/actually hooking it up to my laptop. But it is all hooked together now w/the new HD, ready to go.

Thanks again
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:57 PM   #5193
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Yeah! Many thanks for your instructions - never would have figured it out.

Now, I am too tired, howover, to deal w/actually hooking it up to my laptop. But it is all hooked together now w/the new HD, ready to go.

Thanks again
OH...I guess you did not see my message.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:23 PM   #5194
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So far two members have successfully upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...23#post7720023

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...41#post7736641

The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.

It's been more than a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?

However another member is having a problem with his upgrade. It would appear to be a bad sector issue on his original hard drive (he can't get it to fully copy a backup to his new WD10EARS drive) and nothing to do with the EARS model, but you never know.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...02#post7801302
Just a thought if running WinMFS on WinXP would cause a problem since WinXP is not capable to recognize the 4k block size, but WinMFS would work fine on Vista/Win7 (groks 4k block size)
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:53 AM   #5195
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There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. The issue is with how writes are performed when the drive emulates a 512-byte block size. Think about it... if the drive physically can write only 4K at a time, when you want to write just 512 bytes, you're going to have to read the entire 4K block where the 512 byte block goes, and then write that entire 4K block back out. You'll usually see this referred to as "RMW" or "Read-Modify-Write". To some extent the effect of this should be minimized with write caching, especially considering the likelihood of most writes being sequential, thus never requiring a read-before-write operation. The problem can be compounded if your operating system works with 4K blocks, too, but ends up misaligned such that every 4K write crosses a physical 4K boundary and requires 2 4K block reads and 2 writes to write that single 4K block of data; though again write caching on the drive itself can mitigate this.

But in the worst case, with no write caching going on, and with every write being to a random 512-byte block location, you could see performance amount to as little as 1/4 of what you should otherwise see from a drive.

On the other hand, even 1/4 of the write speed these drives are capable of is more than sufficient for the needs of an HD DVR that's recording two programs at the same time it's playing back a third and even downloading a fourth... and then some. In the case of the Western Digital EARS drives, you're maybe looking at a very-worst-case performance around 20-25MB/second. And with a full HD OTA channel being about 18Mb/s, or under 2.5MB/s, there's quite enough performance there to do what is needed.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:30 AM   #5196
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There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. <snip>
Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself! Well, only knowing enough to be dangerous the fact is I couldn't have said it at all. I know what you said there makes sense and I can follow it for a bit, but my eyes glazed over somewhere along the way. The end bit does make sense so it somewhat (or possibly completely) explains why the WDxxEARS drives work in TiVo's but may give "legitimate" computers some heartburn.

Thanks for that...I think.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:31 AM   #5197
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Found it: "Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector." (From first post)
This I think was based on a preliminary comment from Spike last year before how they actually work and the nature of a specific problem (misalignment on XP partitions only) was widely known. Since the TiVo uses unaffected Apple partitions there should be no (and I do not know of any) problems using 4K drives. Any problems with those drives would be unrelated.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:36 AM   #5198
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I can report that whatever fix TiVo did to the XL for the soft reboot issue did not percolate over to the S3 software (and at this point probably won't). Thought for a moment there I might be able to avoid pulling the drive to fix it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:57 AM   #5199
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Looks like we both posted at the same time...but I believe that for XP Pro SP3 there are no drivers to install.
Thanks MPSAN as well. I did hook it up to my laptop last night, and my system recognized there was something new, and installed the drivers without my having to use the driver disc that was included w/the adapter.

I am going to try do the boot cd tonight re the wdidle3 thing, just to get that out of the way.

I have a pulled orig 250HD from a series 3 that went bad and am hoping to do a backup/restore of whatever I can get from it. (had bought an original 250G series 3 HD from ebay that someone had upgraded quite a while ago so that one is now working in my S3-stroke of luck that I had that one laying around).

I have an unused, normal, 750G external HD still in a box that I was going to try to use for the backup.

I am now wondering if I can even use that one to download from my old Tivo HD; thinking now that maybe I would just be able to backup/restore to Tivo HDs. Am I correct in that assumption?

If so, i might have to go ahead and get a 2nd adapter...
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:18 AM   #5200
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I can report that whatever fix TiVo did to the XL for the soft reboot issue did not percolate over to the S3 software (and at this point probably won't). Thought for a moment there I might be able to avoid pulling the drive to fix it.
That's too bad. I thought they might include it in a transparent update. Maybe it'll be thrown in with the next full update...who knows? But I can see why they wouldn't...except perhaps on refurb boxes they use for exchanges. But, still no real reason to spread it to the masses as those drives shouldn't be in Series3 boxes anyway...at least in their view. Can't blame them for not spending any time on it I guess.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:50 AM   #5201
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Copied drive with WinMFS now I have even more HD hours!

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IIRC folks have successfully used dd to make a bit-for-bit copy. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!
Well I chickened out on using "dd" and instead decided to use trusty ole WinMFS to clone my already upgraded Samsung 1.5TB drive to my shiny new hopefully problem free WD 1.5TB drive.

I followed instructions on WinMFS site for Copying and I did not expand the partition past 1TB when that question came up. I did supersize, just like I did last time.

Now when I first copied my stock drive to the 1.5TB Sammy, I got 180 hours of HD afterwards.

Now I copied my Sammy to my WD (both 1.5TB drives), and now I have 198 hours of HD! Added bonus I guess. So far the drive seems to be working. I'll do some soft boot / cold boot testing one of these nights.

BTW, if anyone is interested, it took about 16-17 hours to do the copy with WinMFS. I use eSATA for the new drive and a USB external case for the old drive. The progress bar in WinMFS seemed to be accurate but the remaining hours was up over a million when I checked 12 hours into it, so I was glad that part was incorrect. I don't know much about what WinMFS does internally, but I know in the past when I have copied large drives with dd I have used buffering to increase the performance 5-10x.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:01 PM   #5202
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Well I chickened out on using "dd" and instead decided to use trusty ole WinMFS to clone my already upgraded Samsung 1.5TB drive to my shiny new hopefully problem free WD 1.5TB drive.
Awesome!
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:28 PM   #5203
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Thanks MPSAN as well. I did hook it up to my laptop last night, and my system recognized there was something new, and installed the drivers without my having to use the driver disc that was included w/the adapter.

I am going to try do the boot cd tonight re the wdidle3 thing, just to get that out of the way.

I have a pulled orig 250HD from a series 3 that went bad and am hoping to do a backup/restore of whatever I can get from it. (had bought an original 250G series 3 HD from ebay that someone had upgraded quite a while ago so that one is now working in my S3-stroke of luck that I had that one laying around).

I have an unused, normal, 750G external HD still in a box that I was going to try to use for the backup.

I am now wondering if I can even use that one to download from my old Tivo HD; thinking now that maybe I would just be able to backup/restore to Tivo HDs. Am I correct in that assumption?

If so, i might have to go ahead and get a 2nd adapter...
Well, I believe that a backup to a windows drive (external drive letter) may only be available in truncated backup. I do not remember. That would be a great WINmfs option, however, as it would allow a single drive upgrade even with a full copy. I think that in the days of "smaller HDD's" the idea was that a full backup of a 160 or 250 GB drive would fill the normal Windows drive. Nowadays who has ONLY 160-250 GB drives. The wdidle3 part will depend on the boot cd supporting USB as DOS does not without drivers. The ISO may have those, however. Just try it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:13 AM   #5204
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Thank you for the advice. I will try that to see if there is an issue. I tried the diagnostic Kickstart 54 test to see if there was an issue with the drives - and they seemed to pass those test.

I will try and see if this endless restart happens after I disconnect the External Hard Drive.

I guess I will have to redo the Marry process. To be sure.

To answer your question - i was checking all the settings to see if it connected to the tivo service - and it said it failed...i initially connected the adapter incorrectly.

-mike
UPDATE:

Before I tried to divorce the Tivo - I unplugged the esata cable and unplugged the unit and restarted the unit. Then the unit worked perfectly for approximately a week. And today the restarts started up again - screwing up my recordings. And when I tried to fix it - I got the endless restarts. I did all the Kickstarts to see if the unit will repair itself. The Kickstart 54 diagnostic test said both HD passed the tests - my upgraded internal and the WD 1 TB DVR Expander.

So I officially divorced the 1 TB DVR Expander and now the unit is working fine. No more BS Restart.

I think the problem is either the ESATA Cable or the Actual WD 1 TB DVR Expander. I think I should get a replacement from WD - rather than remarrying this unit.

Any other advice on this issue - looks like from reading previous posts there is a problem with these 1 TB DVR Expander. Is there any other unit that works better than this one?? The official tivo verified version?

thanks - michael
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:14 AM   #5205
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So I officially divorced the 1 TB DVR Expander and now the unit is working fine. No more BS Restart.
Hi Michael...sorry to hear about that. It could be the cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $11. Might be worth a shot.

Otherwise AFAIK you're the first to report an issue with the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The 500GB models appear to have a lifespan of about 12 to 18 months which isn't so good. About half the failures are the hard drive itself and about half are due to the enclosure (the drive may be fine, but something in the enclosure such as the bridge or chipset is failing.

If it's within the 1 year warranty (and if you try a new cable and it doesn't work) I'd certainly get an RMA from WD.

IIRC you have one of the original TiVo Series3's with an upgraded internal drive (750GB?). You do have the option of using other eSATA drives. If you have a read through the first post on this sticky you'll find some recommendations for other expansion drives or DIY. I know a lot of folks are using the relatively inexpensive 1TB Fantom Green eSATA drives. IIRC they have a two-year warranty. Others are putting together their own using Antec's MX-1 enclosure and one of the "green" drives from WD, Seagate or Hitachi. Most bare drives have a three-year warranty. Since you've upgraded your internal drive you'll still have to go through the marriage process with any drive but you do have more options.

Thanks for the post and let us know how it goes.

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Old 03-09-2010, 11:53 AM   #5206
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Hi Michael...sorry to hear about that. It could be the cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $11. Might be worth a shot.

Otherwise AFAIK you're the first to report an issue with the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The 500GB models appear to have a lifespan of about 12 to 18 months which isn't so good. About half the failures are the hard drive itself and about half are due to the enclosure (the drive may be fine, but something in the enclosure such as the bridge or chipset is failing.

If it's within the 1 year warranty (and if you try a new cable and it doesn't work) I'd certainly get an RMA from WD.

IIRC you have one of the original TiVo Series3's with an upgraded internal drive (750GB?). You do have the option of using other eSATA drives. If you have a read through the first post on this sticky you'll find some recommendations for other expansion drives or DIY. I know a lot of folks are using the relatively inexpensive 1TB Fantom Green eSATA drives. IIRC they have a two-year warranty. Others are putting together their own using Antec's MX-1 enclosure and one of the "green" drives from WD, Seagate or Hitachi. Most bare drives have a three-year warranty. Since you've upgraded your internal drive you'll still have to go through the marriage process with any drive but you do have more options.

Thanks for the post and let us know how it goes.
Thanks - here is another update:

I went ahead to call wd to have them replace the drive. They told me that before I do that - they asked me if the DVR expander was connected directly
to the outlet. Well mine was on the power surge strip. So I connected it directly to the outlet.

Ok I followed there direction. Looks like I don't have the restart issue. Looks like I am back to where I was - before I married the HD - since I had to reformat. The Tivo does not recognize the format - so it looks like i have to do the upgrade process all over again - I was hoping to avoid opening that tivo up again and connecting my tivo's upgraded internal hard drive to my computer simultaneously with the esata dvr expander to the winmfs program.

Is there away to avoid opening the TIVO and just fixing the external hd so they would marry properly - since i already did this with the internal drive?

thanks for the advice.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:01 PM   #5207
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Thanks - here is another update: <snip>
Ugh. Unfortunately if you divorced the Expander you'll need to remarry it again.

During their troubleshooting process TiVo goes through the "is it connected directly to the wall?" process as well. Seems surge protectors can be problematic and apologies for not mentioning that. The very best thing to do would be to have both on a UPS like this one. That will ensure that your data doesn't get corrupted and of course protect them from ultimate damage from surges, spikes, failures, brown-outs, etc. Very inexpensive insurance.

At least you have a fighting chance now. Hopefully that will be that. Keep us posted!
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:39 PM   #5208
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success

Hey folks, I just upgraded my TiVo HD using a WD15EVDS. The drive had a Feb. 2010 date on it so I ran wdidle3. I copied my recordings and it took about 30-35 minutes to complete. Everything worked fine and now my TiVo is showing 198 HD hours and 1733 SD hours.

It's just in time because comcast "world of more" is giving us 40 more HD channels on April 14.

Thanks to the people who posted in this thread and made such a clear upgrade guide. I really appreciate it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:08 PM   #5209
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Hey folks, I just upgraded my TiVo HD using a WD15EVDS.
Welcome to the "club" and enjoy!
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:27 PM   #5210
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Long time lurker...thanks for all the great info. Just added this external hard drive to my Series 3
Toshiba - 1TB External USB 2.0/eSATA Portable Hard Drive - Black... Model: PH3100U-1EXB. $99 @ Best Buy. (Sorry not enough posts to link).
Works perfect.....Tivo recognized it right away.3 year warranty is a plus.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:51 AM   #5211
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(Sorry not enough posts to link).
I think the forum software needs a few tweaks. If you've been registered for 7+ years, I think it's OK to let you include a link even if you haven't made the requisite number of posts.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:01 AM   #5212
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I think the forum software needs a few tweaks. If you've been registered for 7+ years, I think it's OK to let you include a link even if you haven't made the requisite number of posts.
Agreed...that's been brought up a number of times. Members (new or seven year veterans) have to post 10 times before they can see text links or post a link. I understand wanting to keep spammers to a minimum but 10x? Makes no sense IMHO.

Last edited by richsadams : 03-10-2010 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Tyop…d'oh!
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:08 AM   #5213
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Long time lurker...thanks for all the great info. Just added this external hard drive to my Series 3
Toshiba - 1TB External USB 2.0/eSATA Portable Hard Drive - Black... Model: PH3100U-1EXB. $99 @ Best Buy. (Sorry not enough posts to link).
Works perfect.....Tivo recognized it right away.3 year warranty is a plus.
Sweet! A three-year warranty is unusual...and very welcome. It says that it's a 5400 RPM drive so it should run fairly cool. Please let us know if there are any noise or heat issues. Otherwise, enjoy!

BTW, here are links to the OP's new eSATA drive at BB and Amazon:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba+...1EXB&cp=1&lp=1

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-eSATA-...pr_product_top
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:48 AM   #5214
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I seem to be seeing some successful upgrades with a few drives that are not on the compatible list.
Has the list been updated?
Should some drives be added with the instructions on how to make them compatible?
Is there a "best" drive for an upgrade (low noise / reliable/ fairly straight forward install)?

I am leaning toward the Hitachi and on the fence about whether to use a single or dual dock. I am also looking at the APRICORN ADW-USB-KIT. I am not sure if it will do two drives.

Last edited by bciocco : 03-10-2010 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:41 PM   #5215
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I seem to be seeing some successful upgrades with a few drives that are not on the compatible list.
Has the list been updated?
Should some drives be added with the instructions on how to make them compatible?
Is there a "best" drive for an upgrade (low noise / reliable/ fairly straight forward install)?

I am leaning toward the Hitachi and on the fence about whether to use a single or dual dock. I am also looking at the APRICORN ADW-USB-KIT. I am not sure if it will do two drives.
Here is my reasoning why I ordered the Hitachi 7k1000.c as an internal drive for my HD. This might help someone else. Too many problems reported with the Seagates. Why take a chance on a Seagate when the WD and the Hitachi are known to work. I did not want to take a chance with a WD EARS drive. The cost difference between the 1.5 TB WD EADS and either the Hitachi or the WD EADS (1.0 TB) was not worth it for me. 157 hours of recording is enough for me. So, that left the decision between the 1.0 TB EADS and the Hitachi. From prior posts, the noise and heat are about the same. The Tivo is not in a bedroom, so if the Hitachi is a tiny bit louder than the WD that will not be a problem. I do not have easy access to a computer that I can open and connect the WD directly to in order to turn off the intelipark [sic]. The noise level on the Hitachi can be turned down via USB. Finally, I found the Hitachi about $10 cheaper than the WD, so I can buy a drink to celebrate the upgrade!
I ordered two really inexpensive USB to Sata adapters with power on Ebay. Hope I don't burn my house down. Other than for the upgrade, I don't really have a use for a usb/sata adapter. If I did, I probably would buy a docking station.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:37 PM   #5216
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Are those the eForcity adapters?
Have you done the upgrade yet?
Did they work OK?
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:40 PM   #5217
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Here is my reasoning why I ordered the Hitachi 7k1000.c as an internal drive for my HD. This might help someone else. Too many problems reported with the Seagates. Why take a chance on a Seagate when the WD and the Hitachi are known to work. I did not want to take a chance with a WD EARS drive. The cost difference between the 1.5 TB WD EADS and either the Hitachi or the WD EADS (1.0 TB) was not worth it for me. 157 hours of recording is enough for me. So, that left the decision between the 1.0 TB EADS and the Hitachi. From prior posts, the noise and heat are about the same. The Tivo is not in a bedroom, so if the Hitachi is a tiny bit louder than the WD that will not be a problem. I do not have easy access to a computer that I can open and connect the WD directly to in order to turn off the intelipark [sic]. The noise level on the Hitachi can be turned down via USB. Finally, I found the Hitachi about $10 cheaper than the WD, so I can buy a drink to celebrate the upgrade!
I ordered two really inexpensive USB to Sata adapters with power on Ebay. Hope I don't burn my house down. Other than for the upgrade, I don't really have a use for a usb/sata adapter. If I did, I probably would buy a docking station.
Samsung F3 should be under consideration as well. There are posts of successful S3 upgrade with 1TB F3 and the drive seems to get good reviews. The "problem" with 7k1000.c is that it is 7200rpm drive with somewhat higher heat dissipation than most 5400rpm drives.

Personally I ordered 7k1000.c which would replace 1TB WD EADS in WHS (Windows Home Server). The EADS would go into Tivo (to replace failed WD 750GB AACS).
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:44 PM   #5218
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Samsung F3 should be under consideration as well. There are posts of successful S3 upgrade with 1TB F3 and the drive seems to get good reviews. The "problem" with 7k1000.c is that it is 7200rpm drive with somewhat higher heat dissipation than most 5400rpm drives.

Personally I ordered 7k1000.c which would replace 1TB WD EADS in WHS (Windows Home Server). The EADS would go into Tivo (to replace failed WD 750GB AACS).
I know some folks have successfully used the Sammy's but I and a number of others also had issues with them...unknown as to why they didn't work or failed soon after because they worked fine in computers later. Based on that I'd be cautious about using them and probably wouldn't recommend that they be placed on the recommended list.

I have three of the Hitachi's linked above, one running as a backup drive and two in a NAS. 7200RPM is overkill for TiVo no question. However unless they're under very heavy load in the NAS they run surprisingly cool...under 37c on average and never over 47c. It's a bit apples and oranges, but I'd expect them to do quite well in TiVo. Perhaps some of the folks that are using them in TiVo can post the operating temps. I was surprised how quiet they were out of the box as well...especially compared to one that I have that's a couple of years old (sounds like a thrashing machine). The WD drives in our TiVo's have been flawless but I wouldn't hesitate to use one of these Hitachi's in the future.

NOTE: If you do opt for the Hitachi, they are not all created equal (some are very loud and run hot) so be SURE to order the HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822145287
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #5219
dt100
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Rich: Good to hear the reassuring words on the Hitachi. Buyer’s remorse was setting in.
I thought I ordered the wrong Hitachi drive. I think the one you linked is the retail box version of the 7k1000.c. I ordered the "bare drive," and one of the part numbers on the drive is the the H3d1000 you linked- HDS721010CLA332.

If I have any problems with the Hitachi, is the EVDS preferred over the EADS? (I would have to use my computer at work to disable the intelliseek - not my preference).

Bciocco: I have not received the adapters yet, but the one you linked is not the one I ordered. I went really cheap. I got two, thinking I would hedge my bets and use one for each drive. I got one from 700store and one from koo-webweb. I’ll report back after I get them and see if they work. They are being shipped from Hong Kong, so it will be a while.

Last edited by dt100 : 03-10-2010 at 11:16 PM. Reason: New info
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:37 PM   #5220
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I've been using the old Hitachi 1TB drive models in four of my TiVos for a long time now. the old 1TB drives had five platters, the new ones have two or three.
Even the five platter version is quiet as long as you adjust the acoustic management. And those five platter ones run hotter than the WD green drives. But, just like the WD green drives in my other five TiVos, The Hitachis have had no problems. They have been rock solid like the WD green drives.
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